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ImpAtom posted:Haven't you complained a whole ton about how healers don't have enough to do and you want it to be harder? Yes and this contradiction has been pointed out by at least a half dozen posters. It's very funny.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:16
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Endorph posted:if he thought modern races were entirely valueless and akin to literal beasts he would not have said 'remember us' or bothered showing you the home movies of the apocalypse to begin with Look if you're gonna bring in the repeatedly heavy handed subtext turned literal text by the time of 5.3's climax of ShB that's just cheating.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:17
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goblin week posted:Maybe that's revealed post-factum because that does not come across so far!! It's in the Tales from the Shadows that was released after I wanna say the Seat of Sacrifice patch? Emet Selch was increasingly delusioned by both Elidibus and Lahabrea, Elidibus because he almost literally removed his memories of life before the sundering because it got in the way of the mission, and it hurt every time he lost the memories again, so he just stopped trying, and Lahabrea's brain was so completely fractured that Emet was the only remaining unsundered who actually remembered anything. So he threw himself into his mortal life as Solus and was actually happy for a time, until his Son died and he just checked out entirely and threw himself into The Work. He figured that he was the last of the ascians who actually remembered why they were doing what they were doing and if he died then we had obviously earned our continued existence, that's why he helped in SoS. Now my charms are all o'erthrown, And what strength I have's mine own, Which is most faint, as is my breath That quavers here at brink of death. 'Twas e'er my fate to wager all For that which wrought my brothers' fall, And thus the aether beckons me To depths of black eternity, To dream of things long lost and gone, And futures which might yet be won─ Though not by me, lest you mistake, For others wait, the stage to take, And while their worth is far from sure, I bid the falling curtain─pause. Let "encore" be my final word, Their epilogue to death preferred.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:18
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He's a complete fuckstick but he's a compelling complete fuckstick.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:20
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goblin week posted:Maybe that's revealed post-factum because that does not come across so far!! It was the entire subtext of his burgeoning closeness with you throughout the entire expansion. It could not be any more heavy handed than the ending of him finally standing tall with the burden off his shoulders pitifully asking you to remember those people who he sought to save that he just spent the last few days teaching you about. Hell the scene at the elevator in Kholusia where he gives you a whole speech about his home town and how much the people working together reminded him of it and how he wishes you could have seen it because he wanted to show you and thinks you'd love it is already a real big "Oh this guys literally just said he sees us, at some small level, as extensions of the society he loved so much". Skill issue on your part.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:23
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Kurieg posted:It's in the Tales from the Shadows that was released after I wanna say the Seat of Sacrifice patch? Some of this comes up in his random dialogue in the 5.0 msq. He lived countless lives, raised countless families, and they all ended in tragedy because they're mortal.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:25
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my hot take is that ff14 sucks now because we no longer have the best ascian kikuko inoue as our big mommy
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Jan 18, 2024 18:25
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Yeah, I don't think Emet would be half as compelling if it wasn't clear that he does not buy his own bullshit 100% but he needs it because the other choice is everything being for naught and that would mean accepting both "My people are gone forever" and "All the atrocities I did were for no reason and against people, not malformed things." And "What would you do to save your people" is basically an ongoing theme in ShB. G'raha breaks the laws of space/time, drags a bunch of people into another world where they might die, and plans to suicide by lightwarden after playing the villain. Ardbert did everything right, failed, and was so driven to despair he and his pals were willing to do some awful poo poo in a desperate attempt to salvage something other than the total destruction of his entire world, and Emet is Emet. We're shown that Emet is on a bigger scale but at the same time he isn't really different.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:30
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Also, it is not a coincidence that you find and fight him in a place called The Tempest, full of Shakespere references, or that his "farewell poem" is a pastiche of Prospero's ending monologue: Now my charms are all o’erthrown, And what strength I have’s mine own, Which is most faint: now, ’tis true, I must be here confined by you, Or sent to Naples. Let me not, Since I have my dukedom got, And pardon’d the deceiver, dwell In this bare island by your spell; But release me from my bands With the help of your good hands: Gentle breath of yours my sails Must fill, or else my project fails, Which was to please. Now I want Spirits to enforce, art to enchant; And my ending is despair, Unless I be relieved by prayer, Which pierces so, that it assaults Mercy itself, and frees all faults. As you from crimes would pardon’d be, Let your indulgence set me free. Prospero, of course, is a sorcerer, one of the archetypal fictional sorcerers: he is a puissant magic user, unrivaled in his art, and he hopes through his magic and machinations - which he is ultimately successful in - to restore his lost Dukedom and regain his rightful place in the world, motivated in no small part by his love for his loved ones. It's by no means a perfect match, but come on: the theme song of the Tempest is Full Fathom Five!
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Jan 18, 2024 18:39
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Truga posted:my hot take is that ff14 sucks now because we no longer have the best ascian kikuko inoue as our big mommy She will always be with me
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Jan 18, 2024 18:58
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Man time really is a flat circle with all these "Emet is bad actually" hot takes huha cartoon duck posted:it's fun to like fictional villains because they are in fact fictional and going all "the character does bad things but... you like them?! mentally ill!" is some hays code poo poo 
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Jan 18, 2024 19:01
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Telling Emet-Selch no at the end of Shadowbringers because a civilization that produced Lahabrea is unworthy of memorialization.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:05
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i do not like emet-selch but i do want to gently caress him
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Jan 18, 2024 19:09
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There are some people who did want to side with Emet, usually hand-in-hand with the "Venat is the real villain" takes, but that dried up a fair bit after Endwalker.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:15
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I want to be hand in hand with Emet, but not for ideological reasons
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Jan 18, 2024 19:17
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I can fix him by blasting a gaping hole through his chest
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Jan 18, 2024 19:24
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The real question is if we had been joined with Ardbert sooner, would that had been enough to pursued Emet in some fashion or break him from his tempering? Could we have actually changed him and his mind? All of Shadowbringers, Emet tests our limits to see if he even needs to finish the job on the first and complete rejoining, or if 7 rejoinings is good enough. (It wasn't, clearly the bare minimum was 8.) When he see us as our former self for a moment, Emet is so shocked that he can't even believe it. Like he's being tricked. He doesn't understand we could join with a shard without rejoining the whole rear end reflection in the process. But if he had the time to comprehend it, would that had been enough for him?
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Jan 18, 2024 19:33
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I still give points to Past Lahabrea for having enough self-awareness that when told (or forced to deduce) that his eventual fate was to be reduced to a cackling madman playing at being a supervillain in service to trying to restore the star, instead of reacting with horror and disgust like Emet-Selch did, his response was to think for a moment, then nod and go, "Yeah, that tracks, I can absolutely see that happening to me if I felt it was necessary." No angst or handwringing, just a resigned, "Welp, it is what it is. Anyway, back to the business at hand..."
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Jan 18, 2024 19:35
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Note Block posted:Man time really is a flat circle with all these "Emet is bad actually" hot takes huh I don't think it's a hot take to call the guy that committed multiple planet wide genocides bad, actually. I agree he's sympathetic in his motivations and it's understandable how he fell down the hole he did. He's complicated! He's messy! There's a lot of redeemable qualities about the guy but there's also a lot of unforgivable deeds. This all makes him an incredibly well written villain. I think people get way too hung up on viewing these sorts of things as much too black or white.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:36
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YoshiOfYellow posted:I don't think it's a hot take to call the guy that committed multiple planet wide genocides bad, actually. This has nothing to do with bad as in bad guy and you know it. We are all aware he's a villain lol
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Jan 18, 2024 19:37
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Note Block posted:The real question is if we had been joined with Ardbert sooner, would that had been enough to pursued Emet in some fashion or break him from his tempering? Could we have actually changed him and his mind? No, because I'm pretty sure Emet's actual plan if we succeeded to hold the light was try and recruit us for Team Zodiark. It wasn't about how many rejoinings were enough but if we were worthy to be given all the details and shown the truth of the world. He might have used the "gentle" rejoining thing as the plan going forward, but that was a unique circumstance and he'd still ultimately want his original world and original friends back.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:40
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Yeah Emet-Selch's test wasn't to change his ways, it was to see if he should bring us and potentially the scions into his group. Basically do to us what Elidibus did to the WoLs on the first and the survivors of the 13th. Still gonna do the rejoinings, but with us as allies and semi-immortal conspirators instead of enemies.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:44
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Yeah Emet-Selch's test wasn't to change his ways, it was to see if he should bring us and potentially the scions into his group. Basically do to us what Elidibus did to the WoLs on the first and the survivors of the 13th. And I can think of one specific reason he definitely wants to recruit the shards of his friend since Azem originally disagreed with the Zodiark plan and "died". Emet wants to prove to Azem that the Zodiark Plan was right and thus convince himself of it too at this point. If he can prove to "Azem" that Zodiark was the right plan all along than all doubt disappears and he gets his friend back after driving them away with the Zodiark plan.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:46
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Lord_Magmar posted:No, because I'm pretty sure Emet's actual plan if we succeeded to hold the light was try and recruit us for Team Zodiark. It wasn't about how many rejoinings were enough but if we were worthy to be given all the details and shown the truth of the world. Yeah, I'm also not so sure Angelo is up to the task of untempering his whole deal. Regardless of that, even when we see him at the end of EW, he reiterates he still wants to see his people (and you) fully restored, so compromising would be difficult. There's a neat little un-captioned line from Hythlodaeus after this where he says "oh don't be like that" to Emet sort of off-screen that gives the impression he can maybe be peer-pressured into a different opinion but we'd have to see how that goes first if it's ever even explored further. Also do remember that their original full rejoining plan was permanently hosed due to the status of the 13th, so they were already acting on the premise that a full rejoining wasn't possible. That definitely played some part in how "gentle" they needed to be with the first, as to not screw it up a second time. Lord_Magmar posted:And I can think of one specific reason he definitely wants to recruit the shards of his friend since Azem originally disagreed with the Zodiark plan and "died". Emet wants to prove to Azem that the Zodiark Plan was right and thus convince himself of it too at this point. If he can prove to "Azem" that Zodiark was the right plan all along than all doubt disappears and he gets his friend back after driving them away with the Zodiark plan. Oh this is a good read on it.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:52
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quiggy posted:Also he's hot? Nah. Solus isn't hot. Badger of Basra posted:This is the real problem I have, he isn’t hot at all Not as Solus, no. Ridiculous looking? Very much. But not hot.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:57
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Kheldarn posted:Nah. Solus isn't hot. 
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Jan 18, 2024 19:59
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He looks like Pepe Le Pew
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Jan 18, 2024 19:59
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My best guess of their plan for the Thirteenth was get Zodiark strong enough to function/defeat Hydaelyn and then use him to complete the rest of the rejoinings since he's basically just a big aether manipulation god. Including unfucking the Thirteenth.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:00
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"Don't gently caress up any more of them like this and we'll figure out how to fix it later"
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Jan 18, 2024 20:02
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Note Block posted:Man time really is a flat circle with all these "Emet is bad actually" hot takes huh Well I don't like him 😤
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Jan 18, 2024 20:03
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And his hair makes me think of Cruella de Vil
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Jan 18, 2024 20:04
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He looks like a depressed clown. Some people are hot for clowns, I guess?
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Jan 18, 2024 20:06
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FuturePastNow posted:He looks like Pepe Le Pew Tracks with his desire to force his intentions on an unwilling subject.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:11
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Ascians trying to park the First into the Zodiark garage: GENTLY NOW! JUST EASE IT IN! WE DONT NEED ANOTHER ACCIDENT ON OUR RECORD!Ugly John posted:Tracks with his desire to force his intentions on an unwilling subject. drat y'all really went to "Emet is actually a serial molester" quick didn't you. I'd ask to show where on the doll Emet hurt some of you but that might be taken seriously huh Note Block fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 20:12
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lines posted:I do know people who are catastrophically horny for Emet but, putting that aside, I think he is an interesting and compelling villain, and Endwalker really doubles down on painting the game's villains in this way. I'm interested actually in how he was received after 5.0 - like, what was the initial reason to ShB? initial reaction was largely the same as today. huge amount of voices going "this was possibly one of the best final fantasy stories" most players today were playing for shadowbringers, so preferring it as a whole to endwalker as a whole isn't usually one of those opinions made up by someone who didn't actually experience it day by day. it's people who want to go back to pre-shadowbringers mechanics are the weirdos and likely didn't experience it on-level Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 20:14
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blastron posted:He looks like a depressed clown. Some people are hot for clowns, I guess? A lot of people do want to gently caress The Joker and Pennywise. Mister Olympus posted:initial reaction was largely the same as today. huge amount of voices going "this was possibly one of the best final fantasy stories" Yeah, the opinion I most remember seeing is "loving hell they somehow made the Ascians compelling villains." Prior to ShB they were basically considered the worst part of the game/forgettable budget Organization XIII/etc.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:14
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I distinctly remember that after Shadowbringers' release it was basically the same as now, yeah, mainly because I remember making a post that went along the lines of: "I can't believe they made me care about the Ascians, but I'm a bit worried that I only actually care about Emet-Selch because the stinger with Elidibus didn't do much for me." Anyway, on that last note, lmao
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Jan 18, 2024 20:22
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Arist posted:I distinctly remember that after Shadowbringers' release it was basically the same as now, yeah, mainly because I remember making a post that went along the lines of: "I can't believe they made me care about the Ascians, but I'm a bit worried that I only actually care about Emet-Selch because the stinger with Elidibus didn't do much for me." I have a very fond memory of driving through some misty rear end fog with my fiancé while the game was down for maintenance before 5.3 and saying to him "How is Ishikawa going to make me love Elidibus?! How much more is she going to hurt me?!" and yeah lmao
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Jan 18, 2024 20:25
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ImpAtom posted:I think the interesting there is that he's not entirely wrong from his perspective. If the context was different "My friends have all been broken into pieces that may resemble them but are not them, I have to fix them" would be an entirely reasonable RPG plot hook to have. But he's also obviously wrong because he's disgusted by the idea when presented to him before the tragedy and it's clear from his behavior and actions that he is doing everything he can to disprove that to himself, up to and including taking a mortal body and having children. His entire stated reason for following the WoL around was in a hope they could disprove his assertation and that is why the Lightwarden thing makes him freak out so hard he makes the world's biggest underwater cope to deal with it. Yeah, it's really important that to Emet he's still on his Save The World plot in his own head. If he'd finished it within a mortal lifetime it wouldn't have even been that outside of what a standard JRPG hero did. "Put someone back together mentally/emotionally" isn't that unusual a fantasy beat, and it wasn't unusual in his culture to literally see and track souls between incarnations. It's just that from the mortal perspective that's alien and monstrous. Of course one could argue that this is a sign of his fundamentally unenlightened perspective, that he is unable to see that his friends' new incarnations are just as valid as their past ones in the golden time now lost. Compare with Venat's monologue in Flow where she explicitly both accepts change and takes comfort in continuity. Emet is trapped in a prison of desperate attachment and he just needs to let go a little. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 20:37
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ImpAtom posted:I think the interesting there is that he's not entirely wrong from his perspective. If the context was different "My friends have all been broken into pieces that may resemble them but are not them, I have to fix them" would be an entirely reasonable RPG plot hook to have. But he's also obviously wrong because he's disgusted by the idea when presented to him before the tragedy and it's clear from his behavior and actions that he is doing everything he can to disprove that to himself, up to and including taking a mortal body and having children. His entire stated reason for following the WoL around was in a hope they could disprove his assertation and that is why the Lightwarden thing makes him freak out so hard he makes the world's biggest underwater cope to deal with it. drat this was at the tail end of some previous page so I missed it until Jetrauben quoted it but great post.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:41
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