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Cerekk posted:Arguing in support of random attacks on civilian shipping while simultaneously calling everyone else an edgelord is certainly something. Its almost a mirror argument for the Somali piracy over 10 years ago, the difference being the Somalis main goal was money. The Houthis have political goals, which I could at least sympathize with except they are more closely aligned with Hamas and Iran. I'm not sure supporting terrorism is a good look.
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Jan 18, 2024 16:59
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I have a lot more sympathy for the Somali pirates because they were legitimately getting shafted by global elements loving around in their waters. Even so, that's not an endorsement.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:08
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A.o.D. posted:I have a lot more sympathy for the Somali pirates because they were legitimately getting shafted by global elements loving around in their waters. Even so, that's not an endorsement. The fishing/dumping justification was bullshit. It was about money. You can make an argument that most of the actual pirates were forced to do it but thats about it. Nick Soapdish posted:Yeah, it would be one thing if it was just us current or former Navy folks but having active merchant mariners post itt does make one wonder why we'd all be against targeting shipping We already get put in lovely situations and shot at, veteran benefits and status denied despite promises, treated like poo poo and forgotten about, all with the expectation that when something happens we will show up because there is no plan b.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:13
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Cerekk posted:P.s., you can disapprove of the policies of the government of Israel and still disapprove of indiscriminate violence towards random civilians, in the same way you can disapprove of the policies of the government of the United States and still disapprove of the Oklahoma City bombing. This is correct. To support my statement earlier with less snark, I think the audience of this thread in particular is going to be uniquely sensitive to a few factors: - What happens to Sailors if indiscriminate attacks are worldwide accepted as an appropriate strategy to oppose nearby wrongs? Will a genocide in China or Burma permit Malaysian Non State Actors to start taking swipes at shipping in Malacca? Should uninvolved Sailors die as protest to a South American flare up if that pops off and becomes particularly horrific? - The downstream effects of inflation and trade cost: increased food prices lead to decreased food availability. The threat of economic impacts preventing war goes away when economic impacts hit. - Non fans of Saudi Arabia were happy that the US resisted fighting in Saudi wars for a few years and rising anti Israeli government sentiments building, but sees that it would be incomprehensible for the US to not respond to indiscriminate attacks on shipping as they have for decades--meaning that despite growing sentiments, the US has been backed into a corner of providing greater support to Saudi Arabia. - Middle East watchers went through a similar hemming and hawing three years ago when the Biden Administration said they would stop fighting UAE/KSA's wars for them and had to consider what happens when they don't materially oppose child soldiers, arbitrary arrests, and guardianship laws. To me, it makes sense for GIP and the Navy Thread to be, overall, less supportive of the Houthi methods than people who aren't terribly involved in the considerations listed above.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:14
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Wait you are guys really pretending to be on this poo poo? You can’t think of why the Houthis would be particularly sensitive to the issue of genocide and enforced famine? Are you dense, that's the literal slogan of the Houthi movement. Revolutionaries say revolutionary/inflammatory/literal bog-standard anti-Western poo poo, news at 11. Also, random indiscriminate attacks on merchant shipping is not enforcing international law. Were the Houthis actually ensuring that the shipping they were attacking was actually benefiting Israel, vs just happening to be transiting the Gulf of Aden, they might have a fig leaf to hide behind, if you squinted hard enough and were rabidly biased towards the Houthis. As it is, randomly launching missiles at civilian ships violates the UNCLOS (Which is in fact binding international law governing maritime activities the world over) due to not respecting the right of merchant ships to "Innocent Passage" through EEZs and territorial waters. Say it with me, "Attacking innocent merchant ships is not enforcing international law." "Attacking innocent merchant ships is not enforcing international law." gently caress out of here, dumbass. orange juche fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 18:54
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There's no excuse or sympathy for piracy, period.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:55
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Wait you are guys really pretending to be on this poo poo? You can’t think of why the Houthis would be particularly sensitive to the issue of genocide and enforced famine? Huh the US always says the same thing though...? Its wild how many credulous people on this site are.holding up the houthis as some kind of force for good. Beyond the pogroms and child soldiers they're also just completely disinterested in helping the people they rule over. Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 19:30
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Grip it and rip it posted:Huh the US always says the same thing though...? Skimmed through this post to the last sentence and thought your were talking about the Republican Party.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:09
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Crab Dad posted:Skimmed through this post to the last sentence and thought your were talking about the Republican Party. Warmongering pieces of poo poo do resemble one another, the world over.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:12
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There are a lot of lovely countries out there doing lovely things to their people that we do nothing about. Until they start throwing missiles at cargo ships and Navy Warships. LOL at the thought that we should just Let That Happen because their rhetoric seems to support anti-genocide stuff from people who are also super excited about committing genocide, they just don't have the weapons to do it yet. Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left and I make terrible points. But enough about that, when is Iran going to start feeling some Freedom Heat for supplying all of our enemies with weapons?
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Jan 18, 2024 20:17
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Flyinglemur posted:There are a lot of lovely countries out there doing lovely things to their people that we do nothing about. Until they start throwing missiles at cargo ships and Navy Warships. LOL at the thought that we should just Let That Happen because their rhetoric seems to support anti-genocide stuff from people who are also super excited about committing genocide, they just don't have the weapons to do it yet. Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left and I make terrible points. Sooner rather than later. The entire region is on the precipice of a massive war/proxy war patchwork, with just about every side with an Air Force or ballistic missiles taking aim at something. Things do not look set to improve in the middle east anytime soon
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Jan 18, 2024 20:19
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Grip it and rip it posted:Warmongering pieces of poo poo do resemble one another, the world over. One can't be a freedom fighter without fighting against someone else's freedom. And if the Houthis feel like being the dog Biden desperately wanted to wag to try and gin up some donor money and make him look/feel like a "wartime" president just in the nick of time, أشكركم على خدمتكم (Google Translate doesn't have a Yemeni option) BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 20:24
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No one goes into war thinking they are the Bad Guys. also, “the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: ‘theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you loving moron’” —Dril, Twitter, 2014
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Jan 18, 2024 20:28
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BIG HEADLINE posted:One can't be a freedom fighter without fighting against someone else's freedom. I think Biden would much prefer to talk about the economy than the clusterfuck our allies are creating in the middle east.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:51
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Grip it and rip it posted:I think Biden would much prefer to talk about the economy than the clusterfuck our allies are creating in the middle east. I meant more Clinton-style wagging than Bush-grade warring.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:18
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Nick Soapdish posted:https://twitter.com/BWagner_CapGaz/status/1743408704320360882 He's a senior, so he's still likely contracted to commission.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:51
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Grip it and rip it posted:Huh the US always says the same thing though...? You guys can circlejerk and mock me all you want, but I’m going to be sincere. I will ask you to actually read what I’m saying and not put words in my mouth, and to treat the context of the ongoing genocide in Palestine and the wider conflict in the region with seriousness in this context. I’ve met a Palestinian who was shot in the leg by an IDF sniper for trying to render aid, and watched another clearly marked medical worker with him get his head opened by a 7.62. I find it hard to even find dark humor in the situation in Gaza the and wider context in the region. I never actually said I supported, nor think they’re “good,” or fully believe that their only motivation, and this isn’t an attempt to own you or argue. I do think the belief that the Houthis can be painted with a broad brush as simply just antisemitic American-hating terrorist pirates is incredibly racist, dehumanizing, and especially as Americans and specifically former or current members of the US military the fact that we just a couple years ago finished up a horrific genocidal campaign by our gulf state proxies armed to the teeth with the our latest export models of Arleigh Burke’s, Abrams, and F16s that lead to one of the greatest mass starvations in recent history. Look I get that most of us are in different information bubbles but for gods sake just look up how many civilians our “allies” have killed in Yemen and now Palestine. Whatever thing you say about the Houthis, regardless of if there is truth to it or it’s just recycling warmed over 2002 era racism, they’re not the country standing between basically at this point the rest of the world and making sure Israel can depopulate Gaza and we are, and I don’t understand why this doesn’t also sicken the rest of you. Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 22:51
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That's because you're ignoring all the people saying "Israel's bullshit DOES suck, but the Houthis are still terroristic pieces of poo poo."
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Jan 18, 2024 22:57
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Godholio posted:That's because you're ignoring all the people saying "Israel's bullshit DOES suck, but the Houthis are still terroristic pieces of poo poo." No, I’m saying that we should not accept casual anti arabs/muslim racism or self-serving trite explanations especially when we’re in the middle of an brutal genocide of an Arab population and an ongoing hysteria of firings and school expulsions of Arabs or pro Palestine activists.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:01
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:You guys can circlejerk and mock me all you want, but I’m going to be sincere. I will ask you to actually read what I’m saying and not put words in my mouth, and to treat the context of the ongoing genocide in Palestine and the wider conflict in the region with seriousness in this context. hey bud, we have an I/P trap thread. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4044116
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Jan 18, 2024 23:02
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ded posted:hey bud, we have an I/P trap thread. Then maybe “Houthis/Arabs are racist savages who hate our freedom” posts should go in there as well. Or just not be posted.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:04
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I guess which thread you should post Houthi-related stuff in depends on whether you think the Houthis' stated justification for their actions is a real justification, or made up.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:08
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Then maybe “Houthis/Arabs are racist savages who hate our freedom” posts should go in there as well. Or just not be posted. well you seem to be going on about i/p stuff while trying to justify antiship missiles being fired at random ships. so whatever man. no not posting
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Jan 18, 2024 23:11
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Quackles posted:I guess which thread you should post Houthi-related stuff in depends on whether you think the Houthis' stated justification for their actions is a real justification, or made up. Both. But given that we’ve got done helping our allies attempt to genocide them, and are now helping our other allies genocide another Arab sub group, I think we have a moral obligation to not mindlessly continue to repeat the rhetoric that enabled us to end up here.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:13
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ded posted:well you seem to be going on about i/p stuff while trying to justify antiship missiles being fired at random ships. so whatever man. no not posting I’m not justifying their actions, I’m asking people to stop repeating what seems to me to be pretty naked racist bullshit and to take seriously that we are a significant party to ongoing and recent genocides in the region. Really, please, I’m asking you to take what I’m saying seriously and in good faith. I know my first response was a bit harsh and I apologize, but I’m asking you to engage with what I’m actually saying. Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 23:14
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:No, I’m saying that we should not accept casual anti arabs/muslim racism or self-serving trite explanations especially when we’re in the middle of an brutal genocide of an Arab population and an ongoing hysteria of firings and school expulsions of Arabs or pro Palestine activists. Disliking the Houthis isn't anti-arab or anti-muslim. They have done plenty of poo poo that is absolutely worthy of criticism and critique on their own. What's going on in Palestine is a genocide, pure and simple. It has been for a long time. It seems like people really only ever give a poo poo when it branches out into full-fledged war like it has a couple times, but hey that's life in America. If I thought the actions of the Houthis was going to do anything actual constructive for that conflict I'd probably give them a pass, but they wont, so neither will I. They have put lipstick on a pig and a bunch of straw grasping people on this site have decided that they're the new hotness. I disagree wholeheartedly. The reality is that the time to stop this genocide was 20+ years ago. The clock on that opportunity essentially expired on 10/7/23. I'd love to be wrong on that take but I don't think I am. Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 23:19
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soooo I just wanted to pop in and say that even though this is getting heated, you guys aren't being complete assholes to each other as you're disagreeing and I want to say I really fuckin' appreciate that
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Jan 18, 2024 23:27
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:I’m not justifying their actions, I’m asking people to stop repeating what seems to me to be pretty naked racist bullshit and to take seriously that we are a significant party to ongoing and recent genocides in the region. I engaged with you in good faith. As stated above, I disagree with Houthi maritime strike policy because it: - Sets precedent dangerous for those who work on the sea. - Has economic effects with the potential to motivate further violence and cause undesered suffering way beyond the current sphere without being likely to motivate the change it aims to. - Draws specific actions commiserate with US policy across decades that are easy to anticipate, driving the US to work closely with the entities it hopes to somehow separate with its violence. - and also, I disagree with Houthi policies regarding journalism, women's rights, child soldiers, moral laws and targeted killings, which makes it difficult to see it as a negative if their position is made less stable. Are any of the above reasons naked racist bullshit? Please let me know, because I do actually endeavor to avoid naked racist bullshit. Thank you.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:33
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:I’m not justifying their actions, I’m asking people to stop repeating what seems to me to be pretty naked racist bullshit and to take seriously that we are a significant party to ongoing and recent genocides in the region. you’re asking people to engage with what you’re actually saying, but the only post you have explicitly objected to as “racist bullshit” was OJ simply pasting the official houthi motto, right? was there some other racist post you objected to? it would help if you engaged with things people are actually saying.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:37
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:You guys can circlejerk and mock me all you want, but I’m going to be sincere. I will ask you to actually read what I’m saying and not put words in my mouth, and to treat the context of the ongoing genocide in Palestine and the wider conflict in the region with seriousness in this context. Please go see a doctor for your TBI. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 18, 2024 23:38
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pmchem posted:you’re asking people to engage with what you’re actually saying, but the only post you have explicitly objected to as “racist bullshit” was OJ simply pasting the official houthi motto, right? was there some other racist post you objected to? it would help if you engaged with things people are actually saying. Pointing to that slogan out of context as the sole reason they are doing this and constantly doing “what about” in reference to every backward or appalling cultural practice I think is racist, yes. I could also pull a quote of a Houthi leader claiming the intention of the slogan is specifically to the governments of the US and Israel, but I don’t fully buy it and don’t want to justify what is a pretty awful quote. I would absolutely be concerned if an organization with that sort of slogan had access to their “enemy” populations and were equipped with the latest armaments. But that’s not the situation we’re in right now. We just got done helping our proxies starve hundred of thousands of Yemeni children, and being the victims of a genocide does not tend to result in the victims becoming more understanding or better for it, as we can see with Israel.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:44
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Really, please, I’m asking you to take what I’m saying seriously and in good faith. I know my first response was a bit harsh and I apologize, but I’m asking you to engage with what I’m actually saying. You started by "actually saying" SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Frankly this is a bunch of racist Islamophobic bullshit, and you should be embarrassed. in response to: orange juche posted:"God is the Greatest and exhorted us to: SMEGMA_MAIL posted:loving skim a Wikipedia article So I skimmed this one and I think I will continue to disregard your ranting. If you want to go participate in an echo chamber where people will nod their heads and agree that Violence Against Civilians is Justified, Actually, please go back to x dot com or wherever. This thread is populated by people likely to be on the receiving end of said violence. Cerekk fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 23:45
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piL posted:I engaged with you in good faith. As stated above, I disagree with Houthi maritime strike policy because it: That is not what I have objected to. I’m objecting to the people of a group of countries who just finished enacting a thankfully failed genocide against Yemen cynically claim to be concerned about women’s rights in the country we just finished staving hundreds of children to death in. Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 23:45
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Cerekk posted:. For fucks sake. Quote where I justified violence against civilians. This is so cynical. You think I need to show you deference because you’re likely to be a victim here, more than the civilians in Yemen or Gaza? The other people here I can at least understand where they're coming from, this level of self-absorption I find really appalling. Anyway, sorry to most of the rest of you if you wanted to continue to engage, I’m going to take a break for a minute because I don’t think anything I say will be productive for a bit. Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 23:52
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:That is not what I have objected to. Yeah uh, I'm sure living under the Houthis is great, once you get past your western cynicism and troubling platitudes about women's rights, children's rights, targeted killings, pogroms, etc etc etc. Nobody here is giving SA a pass for any of their horrible behavior, I assure you. Why are you so hesitant to hold the Houthis to the same standard? Both sides in that conflict loving suck, badly. The US has SA as an ally for reasons entirely disconnected from their human rights record, but the reasons are still important to the US electorate and domestic policy goals. In this sense, America sucks, just like the Houthis and Saudi Arabia. In fact it is frighteningly rare to find any powerful state in the International Arena who doesn't have some kind of horrifying human rights record, either past or present, because people are monsterous to one another, even within their own nation-states or ethnic groups. Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 23:57
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Civilians run those merchantmen.
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Jan 19, 2024 00:04
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Civilians from places that aren’t Saudi Arabia, Israel, American or the UK.
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Jan 19, 2024 00:08
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FrozenVent posted:Civilians from places that aren’t Saudi Arabia, Israel, American or the UK. At least we haven't gotten to the 'attacking civilians is easy and not dangerous, which is why the Houthis do it and is brilliant and should keep doing it' line of argument.
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Jan 19, 2024 00:11
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FrozenVent posted:Civilians from places that aren’t Saudi Arabia, Israel, American or the UK. I’m begging to think those civilians deserved catching missiles for not writing stronger letters of complaint to their representatives.
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Jan 19, 2024 00:14
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Which country fields the most merchant marines worldwide?
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