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TraderStav posted:That tap at the end is art. It really is 
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Jan 18, 2024 05:33
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Everything in the second is perfect, deliberate comedic timing. It's like nothing I've ever seen.
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Jan 18, 2024 05:34
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Oola Moonk Fargo MVP
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Jan 18, 2024 05:36
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Varga might be the Fargo character I'm most unsure about how much I like them. I can't imagine Season 3 working out better differently, but so much just feels like they have an unearned invincibility we see, even if Stussy made a huge mistake in getting a loan from them.
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Jan 18, 2024 05:37
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DaveWoo posted:I did have a few critiques about the final episode: All three of those really bothered me and almost sunk the finale for me. The last scene made up for it and saved the whole season in my view. Someone earlier in this thread said Hawley can feel like someone who's playing the notes but doesn't quite understand music (or something like that) and that felt really apparent this season. There are story beats that happen and feel a bit off or hollow so they just don't land right. Witt Farr's death feels super unearned by the show, it's a pointless death in terms of plot and we don't spend enough time on his interiority (or with him at all for that matter) for his death to really hit home thematically. It feels like going through the motions of "it's sad when a nice character dies" but doesn't feel satisfying in a positive or negative way. Indira's end fizzling out is a bummer as well, it would have been nice to spend any time with her to see i.e. was this a hollow victory, how does she feel about selling herself out of her debt, maybe contrast this with Ole Munch or something. Instead she's just kinda there. Based on their respective screen times I might have combined Indira and Witt into one character, that would have felt more cohesive (and would've given some thematic heft to the death) And Lorraine should have gotten some kind of comeuppance. It's fine for bad guys to win, but the way the show unironically celebrates the evil debtmonger girlboss as she jokes about ordering prison rape just hits wrong, before she triumphantly exits the stage and then we moralize about kindness. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 05:53
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DaveKap posted:
I think it's been mentioned before but my read is that Dot's accident actually happens much earlier when she falls asleep briefly at the wheel. Everything from that point is her dream state post car wreck as she has been found and taken to hospital. She asks about 'the big accident' and her passenger to the hospital staff later on who seem confused. Not just because there obviously wasn't a passenger but that's not what happened to her. I think that read on things makes her dream state ending with a massive freight truck running in to her work really well as metaphor for Dot waking up to Tillman sitting outside her room.
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Jan 18, 2024 05:53
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There's a "rule" of writing that I've always liked. Coincidence can be used to get characters in trouble. It can't be used to get characters out of trouble. The truck was real and the crash as it appeared on screen is literally what happened.
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Jan 18, 2024 06:05
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Tender Bender posted:Witt Farr's death feels super unearned by the show, it's a pointless death in terms of plot and we don't spend enough time on his interiority (or with him at all for that matter) for his death to really hit home thematically. It feels like going through the motions of "it's sad when a nice character dies" but doesn't feel satisfying in a positive or negative way. This has been mentioned by a few people, and idk. It feels like you're confusing the emotion of being disappointment that the character was killed with it being unearned, pointless, etc. Like when you're saying it doesn't feel satisfying, that's kind of why it worked for me. Their death isn't satisfying, and that's how it goes sometimes. (S3 spoiler) Swango's death hit a similar note, iirc.
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Jan 18, 2024 06:15
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Onomarchus posted:I was dumbfounded by that, and I thought it suffered. Or at least I was really let down. I'm not counting Jason Schwartzman doing narration since that's not being in it, though it's a nice touch since having a character from a past season do narration is common here. I learned on Wikipedia about the picture of the woman from the movie being in the dream sequence, but I don't think that counts either. I was expecting--and since no one had shown up yet even in the last few minutes, I was really hoping--that at the very end... So I think the gas station where Witt talks to Danish is the same one (or at least has the same name and was renovated) as the one Ed makes calls from in Season 2. Might be wrong there
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Jan 18, 2024 06:27
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I enjoyed this finale, especially the dinner scene but it definitely sucks to see the only black person on the show die like a fool preventing a white supremacist from walking into an ambush. I guess that's what you get for being the only cop in America firing warning shots
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Jan 18, 2024 08:06
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I demand justice for the dead gas station clerk, Moonk.
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Jan 18, 2024 09:11
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I can't add much to the discussion, other than the conversation her regarding conservatism, the obvious implied reference to IDK Catholicism with the bread = forgiveness thing has been great. Fargo has been swinging for the fences since it started (I need to rewatch seasons 1 & 2) but its clear that this one, season 5, rivals the best ones. Its sad that: the good cop got stabbed and killed, but this is CLEARLY what was going to happen the minute he lowered his pistol and chose not to shoot Jon Hamm. It is what it is, I don't think there's much to take away from that except that if you adhere to "the rule of law" (which only serves those in power) you could ultimately be struck down as you're just another one of the little people fighting over the scraps... maybe something of that sort. Didn't the ex-Sherrif's character say something in the Jail about survival of the fittest?
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Jan 18, 2024 09:32
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Ole Munch being a bilingual pun is fun
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Jan 18, 2024 10:11
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The only overarching theme I can tie to Witt's death is that all the men in this season (with the exception of Munch, who is less man and more force of nature) are different varieties of fools. They run the spectrum running from sweet idiot Wayne to insane tyrant Roy, but they and all the other dudes in between - Witt, Lars, Danish, and Gator are acutely deluded in some way or another and generally find themselves eating poo poo as a result. Except Wayne, who gets to eat biscuits.
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Jan 18, 2024 10:26
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That bottle tap is gonna live in my head for years. Forgot to add that I too thought Munch was going to fall face-first into the chili as soon as he took a bite of either it or the muffins. masterpine posted:I think it's been mentioned before but my read is that Dot's accident actually happens much earlier when she falls asleep briefly at the wheel. Everything from that point is her dream state post car wreck as she has been found and taken to hospital. She asks about 'the big accident' and her passenger to the hospital staff later on who seem confused. Not just because there obviously wasn't a passenger but that's not what happened to her. HK5000 posted:Its sad that: the good cop got stabbed and killed, but this is CLEARLY what was going to happen the minute he lowered his pistol and chose not to shoot Jon Hamm. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 10:45
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CatstropheWaitress posted:This has been mentioned by a few people, and idk. It feels like you're confusing the emotion of being disappointment that the character was killed with it being unearned, pointless, etc. Like when you're saying it doesn't feel satisfying, that's kind of why it worked for me. Their death isn't satisfying, and that's how it goes sometimes. It's less that I'm confused by my emotions and more that I watched it and thought it was a hollow beat that didn't make me feel anything except annoyance at the writers. Witt getting got by Roy could work in a variety of circumstances, and the way it played out here just didn't work for me. When I say it isn't satisfying, I don't mean "It didn't make me happy", I mean "I don't think the show executed this well". "Witt saves Dot, then separately goes after Roy, who is already defeated and bleeding out, and gets killed to stop him from going down a tunnel where he immediately gets arrested" just feels narratively slapped together. The S3 character's death you mentioned feels like an unfortunate but thematically appropriate conclusion to their journey of vengeance, whereas this feels like a tacked on coda because they wanted someone to die. It wouldn't bother me as much if it weren't for the other issues in the finale, which makes me feel less like I'm missing something and more like they just really whiffed hard on wrapping up several arcs and were saved by the tremendous ending scene. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 14:00
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I also didn’t love Witt’s ending, and while I don’t necessarily believe it, I was thinking that maybe you could justify how pointless it seems with some consideration of the themes of inevitability, specifically as it relates to debt. Witt was always supposed to die in the gas station shootout, but because of Dot’s otherworldly force of will, she was able to drag him from the certainty. However, even she can’t permanently stop what is destined, especially if she isn’t there to exert her will in that way. It’s a stupid take, but it does fit alongside Dot’s ability to navigate the ending scene.
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Jan 18, 2024 15:18
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CatstropheWaitress posted:There's an interview with Hawley from a prior season where he goes over his philosophy on violence, and it's great. Can't find it, cause Google sucks rear end. I'm probably going to get some of this wrong, but the gist is: violence in this world hurts. It's not glorified, and isn't aspirational, and when it happens it leaves big craters in the people experiencing it and the world they were in. Spontaneous, awful, and generally leads to either more violence or severe consequences. The TV equivalent of Katt Williams' bit about "ain't poo poo cool about getting shot". "Ain't no music play, ain't no bitches come out."
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Jan 18, 2024 15:39
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Witt should have watched Fargo season 1. "Not apprehended. Dead. Head in a bag. Kill or be killed."
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Jan 18, 2024 15:42
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Munch, in absolute psychic pain, shaking his head "no" when asked if he knows that monkeys can drive cars
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Jan 18, 2024 16:04
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Pattonesque posted:Munch, in absolute psychic pain, shaking his head "no" when asked if he knows that monkeys can drive cars
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Jan 18, 2024 16:31
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Not directed at anyone in the thread in particular, but generally re:Witt Farr’s death in the finale being unearned, unjustified, unsatisfying, etc., Sounds to me like some people wanted a finale to an entirely different tv show. I can’t think of a single death this season (or in the entire series, for that matter) that was cool and good. We should probably expect principled characters to die pointlessly Similarly, I was glad we didn’t get a big dumb firefight between the feds and the militia guys. That’s not something I want from Fargo. I never felt season one deprived us by not showing Malvo‘s rampage at the Fargo mob headquarters, or that season three would’ve been better if we got to see Varga’s fireteam do work
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Jan 18, 2024 16:48
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I am a little surprised they didn't use chekovs leg wound but oh well.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:11
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Pattonesque posted:Munch, in absolute psychic pain, shaking his head "no" when asked if he knows that monkeys can drive cars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xT-vp-6jvY
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Jan 18, 2024 17:17
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a new study bible! posted:I also didn’t love Witt’s ending, and while I don’t necessarily believe it, I was thinking that maybe you could justify how pointless it seems with some consideration of the themes of inevitability, specifically as it relates to debt. Witt was always supposed to die in the gas station shootout, but because of Dot’s otherworldly force of will, she was able to drag him from the certainty. However, even she can’t permanently stop what is destined, especially if she isn’t there to exert her will in that way. Hawley said something close to this in one of the interviews posted. It's less fate and more a debt he felt to Dot to save her after she saved him. Which I think works enough to explain why he wanted to be on the task force sent in to rescue her and why he feels an obligation to go after Tillman himself.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:28
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Feeling kind of mixed. The ending was great, but so much of the first half just felt like it was fizzling out and they were counting off characters in a rush. Okay, so Roy's current wife is still alive and now we're done with her. Right, gently caress, the father-in-law. Uhh...Roy kills him. Now let's take care of Witt. Also Gator's alive...cool. One last scene with Indira and we can just leave her plot hanging. Lorraine's cool now and didn't really learn anything I guess and Roy's getting abused and raped forever unless he saw Banshee and realized that if you can manage to cut off a guy's dick the commissary money doesn't sound so great (I know it's weird, but season 1 Banshee was all I could think of in that scene). I don't know, you can build up a pointless death. If I was more invested in Witt's character it might meant more. Danish's equally pointless death felt a lot more interesting and fit the themes. Witt felt like they just wanted to wrap up the character. Just got kind of sloppy and simple at the end. Would have been a terrible ending if it hadn't been for the back half pulling it back up to good.
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Jan 19, 2024 01:13
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i kinda like how they rushed through that part, like the fight and the ranch characters didn't matter and are forgotten. i guess even witt too. but yeah the weakest was how they handled indira and yeah maybe witt
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Jan 19, 2024 02:00
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I didn’t watch s4 (should I?) but this is on up there. Fantastic ending, when everything was “resolved” in the first 15 minutes I was very curious how the rest would go. Great season, make more!
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Jan 19, 2024 02:02
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mst4k posted:I didn’t watch s4 (should I?) It is worth a watch. Even the worst Fargo is better than most TV. But there are some genuinely very good aspects of it.
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Jan 19, 2024 03:26
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Go in with lowered expectations and you'll probably be fine. Chris Rock never works, unfortunately. But there's some goodies sprinkles amongst the mess.
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Jan 19, 2024 03:47
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Does this belong here or in the "cursed images" thread?
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Jan 19, 2024 04:20
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CatstropheWaitress posted:Go in with lowered expectations and you'll probably be fine. Chris Rock never works, unfortunately. But there's some goodies sprinkles amongst the mess. I'm rewatching it now and there's so many great characters. Tim Olyphant is genius, the nervous cop, nurse Oraetta, the jailbird couple, Salvatore Esposito playing an absolute loving maniac. Alas... Chris Rock, bleh.
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Jan 19, 2024 04:31
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is season three worth watching? I missed that one but a coworker of mine has a family member who is featured in it so I feel like I should watch it, but it seems like people ITT are comparing it unfavorably to this and other seasons.
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Jan 19, 2024 04:45
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Watch all the Fargo.
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Jan 19, 2024 04:48
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Season 3 whips rear end
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Jan 19, 2024 04:49
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The past couple pages are just people saying you should watch all of Fargo, so yes. Go watch S3, it rules. They're all worth watching. They just don't all come together as well as S2 or this past one did. It's like the difference between perfection and very very good tho.
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Jan 19, 2024 05:04
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ChesterJT posted:I'm rewatching it now and there's so many great characters. Tim Olyphant is genius, the nervous cop, nurse Oraetta, the jailbird couple, Salvatore Esposito playing an absolute loving maniac. Alas... Chris Rock, bleh. From what I remember season 4 started out strong but felt kind of meandering by the end. Which wasn't helped by having to shut down filming for months due to covid.
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Jan 19, 2024 05:07
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ChesterJT posted:I'm rewatching it now and there's so many great characters. Tim Olyphant is genius, the nervous cop, nurse Oraetta, the jailbird couple, Salvatore Esposito playing an absolute loving maniac. Alas... Chris Rock, bleh. Honestly season 4 might be on par with the others if it wasn't for Chris Rock
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Jan 19, 2024 05:07
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thehoodie posted:Honestly season 4 might be on par with the others if it wasn't for Chris Rock It would help if you had someone with gravitas in that role (Doctor Senator's actor honestly would have been great there), but... the bigger problem is that almost every character meets an unsatisfying end. The screen time is spread so thin you don't quite as much time as you'd like with the lesbian Bonnie and Clyde, murder nurse, or (biggest failing) the plucky detective daughter. Basically every death in it with a few exceptions feels like how people are describing Witt Farr's in this most recent season. Just a lot of unsatisfying ends back to back to back. Josto and Gaetano's relationship is wonderful tho and one of the few ones that worked throughout imo.
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Jan 19, 2024 05:35
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A major problem with Season 4 is that Rabbi Milligan is such an interesting character and should have been one of the leads instead of a side character, with a lot more time spent on his interiority.
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Jan 19, 2024 05:37
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