|
There's a clip of Nozomi "moonwalking" in one of the trailers for Reload, which he does in Rank 2 of the original Social Link (and I've been able to find clips from Bebe and Mitsuru's original Social Links in other trailers), so my assumption is they're not heavily reworking any of them. I haven't even gotten to the cult bits yet, Nozomi is just hilariously terrible even without that.
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 03:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 20:56 |
|
|
Tired Moritz posted:the sport stuff are very fun. I too sometimes dont try as hard at things I do because Im afraid of the hurt I will feel when I fail. Yes, I maintain that P5's S-Links are worse overall than P4's (can't speak for 3, been too long). This is mainly due to P4's non-party S-Links being drastically better than P5's, which are all extremely boring and same-y. P4's party S-links admittedly suck poo poo and are worse, but that's not a majority of them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 03:59
|
|
|
The only party link in 4 I think is notably bad is, like, Naoto's (and that's mainly for the romance) e: and the main party link in 5 I think about is Makoto's, which is... no good Arist fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jan 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 04:01
|
|
|
Tutor Kid
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 04:05
|
|
|
I was high on P5 when I first played (and replayed) it but now I think the only standouts for me S.Link wise are Futaba, Sojiro, and Iwai’s. Mishima, Becky and Akechi are ones they did something kinda interesting with so props for that, but I think half the links in that game aren’t super interesting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 04:19
|
|
|
Arist posted:The only party link in 4 I think is notably bad is, like, Naoto's (and that's mainly for the romance) It's absurd how Makoto's story is about her being overbearing and sticking her nose where it doesn't belong but it turns out she was 100% right. Like what the hell lol. Worthless S. link.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 04:21
|
|
|
i continue to maintain that party s links are inherently bad because they cannot have anything actually happen in them. If they actually underwent character development or had something occur that meaningfully changed their personal situation you'd either have to write two versions of every line they have in a main story scene to account for whether the s link has been done or not, or you'd have to have players who max their s links early watch their character undevelop every time they appear in the main plot. they don't want to do either of these so every party s link is like: rank 2, yukiko: "i'm poo poo at cooking and i'm gonna inherit the inn but i'm complaining about it" rank 10, yukiko: "i'm still poo poo at cooking and i'm gonna inherit the inn but i've decided to stop complaining about it" where every element introduced either literally goes nowhere or results in them resolving their personal conflict in whatever way allows to maintain the status quo circa when you first talked to them
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 04:36
|
|
|
Plenty of video games have your party members get significant side quests that explore them in-depth apart from the main story, and some do this really well. Persona hasn't really been able to pull it off but that's not because the conceit is impossible.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 04:58
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Plenty of video games have your party members get significant side quests that explore them in-depth apart from the main story, and some do this really well. Persona hasn't really been able to pull it off but that's not because the conceit is impossible. exploring the character would be no problem, but s links typically aim to show progression or development and end in a meaningfully different position from where they started, that's kinda how they're meant to work and that is what you can't really accomplish for party members. you could get around it by explicitly deciding that, okay, they're just gonna be about getting to know them and not actually aim for any kind of resolution, which is I think what they've done with the Link Episodes or whatever they're called in Reload, so it'll be interesting to see how those pan out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 05:09
|
|
|
I liked how the Trails of Cold Steel games did Bond events where you get a little S.link sized chunk event with characters but it's just a scene and not part of some big overarcing part of their character growth. Just lets you learn a bit more about them or share a moment.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 05:12
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:exploring the character would be no problem, but s links typically aim to show progression or development and end in a meaningfully different position from where they started, that's kinda how they're meant to work and that is what you can't really accomplish for party members. you could get around it by explicitly deciding that, okay, they're just gonna be about getting to know them and not actually aim for any kind of resolution, which is I think what they've done with the Link Episodes or whatever they're called in Reload, so it'll be interesting to see how those pan out. I mean yeah nothing's stopping them from using party S Links more to explore other aspects of the characters and leaving the major character development to main story. They just don't usually do it that way. Though I guess there are some exceptions, Ryuji's "main development" is more in main story with his S Link being quieter character stuff that's not as major (and also not as dumb as the stuff between him and Morgana). And I think that worked out well enough.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 06:18
|
|
|
Umm I liked the "get smoked" kid, but the scummy girl (devil?) and the wheel of fortune lady might as well not even exist
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 07:01
|
|
|
And you cant even talk to the Get Smoked kid until like September or October...
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 07:03
|
|
|
It's impressive Ohya is the worst Confidant even though she has one of the best supporting characters (Lala-chan) and is the Social Link outside like, Akechi, most directly afflicted by the main plot (her friend was disappeared by the Shido Conspiracy). Even then I like her myself, but my taste is, lacking discernment, admittedly. I tend to appreciate the effort and attempt I can glean from the writing as much as the result. Mechanically she very much clearly suffers from a change to palace security levels they made at some point, and they didn't bother to improve this in Royal by giving her maybe half of Chihaya's stuff (anything that modifies Mementos for example could easily be given to Ohya as her writing articles that change public perception).
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 07:56
|
|
|
Imo social links should have never given benefits beyond the exp buff
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 08:22
|
|
|
I like the S. Links being able to help you in new ways as you progress them or learn from them. I'll say this, I think the shopkeepers for items and equipment should be S. Links going forward instead of randos.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 08:33
|
|
|
Didn't they do that in P5? With the doctor and the weapon shop.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 08:34
|
|
|
yes that's what i meant i like that
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 08:41
|
|
|
People generally tend to have more than one facet to their character. It is entirely possible to have characters both develop as a linear plot advances and separately as part of an optional storyline, by plotting the development with minimum overlap. Persona games tend to pull this off with very mixed results. Usually by parting halting development in the main plot once you unlock the social link, and then divorcing the link from the plot, which is the easiest and most boring solution, but far from the only one. I think I've mentioned that the cleanest example of pulling this off is Yukari in P3. Her role in the main plot concerns her relationship with her father and SEES, while her social link deals with her social life and her relationship with her mother. Both are relevant to her character but have little overlap, so they can easily run on separate tracks. But my personal favorite is Yusuke. The plot doesn't do much with him after he joins, but I think it's notable that when he isn't the comic relief he always is a voice of reason. He's either keeping the big picture in mind or providing a reasoned moral perspective. His confidant deals with his art and what he feels is a slump, but the undertone is that he feels jaded. He is struggling to regain his lost innocence, and the conclusion is that he shouldn't do that, because he has traded it for perspective. That doesn't impact his story role, because the lesson is that he is fine the way he is and doesn't need to change. All that changes is how well he understands this. Of course they also make him refuse the generous scholarship to maintain the running gag that he can't afford food. That part I don't care for. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Jan 19, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 13:03
|
|
|
https://x.com/ScrambledFaz/status/1748119033994432868 apparently someone got their hands on internal Atlus work in progress files for P5 (discs bought via auction) 
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 13:49
|
|
|
Ibram Gaunt posted:I liked how the Trails of Cold Steel games did Bond events where you get a little S.link sized chunk event with characters but it's just a scene and not part of some big overarcing part of their character growth. Just lets you learn a bit more about them or share a moment. I like the idea of a social link character doing their thing regardless of whether the player character is involved. Either you can either witness, influence, and build relationship points, or skip it for other stuff and advancing the story. Even if you don't participate, you would wind up seeing the results in NPC reactions and further developments with their individual story. You advance the main plot, you advance their timeline. Of course, this would have the side effect of having the player going "wtf, why are they suddenly so confident?" if you've neglected party member's stories. It would also be kind of funny.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 14:12
|
|
|
As far as non-P3 party links go, I did like Ryuji's and Futaba's. Yosuke's also worked since it deals with something that he doesn't really go through in the main story (him being away from the city, having to be a manager, and secret jealousy over Yu), it's just exploring more facets of his character. Makoto's doesn't really work because it's going over a trait of hers that's already expressed in the main story and doesn't really do much with it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 16:00
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 16:06
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 16:21
|
|
|
Should be Eff'in
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 16:35
|
|
|
i hope the kids hat in the beta says GEt hosed
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 18:42
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/dankmemebunny/status/1748202373799981448 this scene is still insane
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:02
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:i continue to maintain that party s links are inherently bad because they cannot have anything actually happen in them. If they actually underwent character development or had something occur that meaningfully changed their personal situation you'd either have to write two versions of every line they have in a main story scene to account for whether the s link has been done or not, or you'd have to have players who max their s links early watch their character undevelop every time they appear in the main plot. they don't want to do either of these so every party s link is like:
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:04
|
|
|
Endorph posted:https://twitter.com/dankmemebunny/status/1748202373799981448 as someone who hasn't played persona 5 what's the context for them slapping him
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:19
|
|
|
Endorph posted:https://twitter.com/dankmemebunny/status/1748202373799981448 what the gently caress
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:23
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:as someone who hasn't played persona 5 what's the context for them slapping him its meant to be a 'ugh, you made us worry, you jerk' thing but it comes across like persona 5 was made by space aliens
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:24
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:as someone who hasn't played persona 5 what's the context for them slapping him He had the nerve to survive his heroic sacrifice.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:25
|
|
|
like tales of vesperia has a similar scene but the context is that the guy who they thought had died for them also betrayed the party before changing his mind and doing the heroic sacrifice so when they see him again theres the complicated mix of being grateful and being mad at him, so they all sock him one and leave it at that or in the ending of ff9 when zidane comes back after everyone thought he was dead garnet punches his chest a few times before crying into it but theyre clearly weak and shes just experiencing overwhelming emotion, and shes hugging him and crying after, and shed spent the past like, year, thinking he was dead, not ten minutes like theres reasons for similar scenes to work but p5 comes across like its seen that idea in other stuff but has no idea why it worked so it just does it
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:28
|
|
|
Willo567 posted:as someone who hasn't played persona 5 what's the context for them slapping him Brief barely-spoilers context: They thought he died, but he didn't, and they're mad at him for casually walking in from off-screen while they're mourning him further context for why it's terrible: This happens at the end of a dungeon where every party member gets a moment to shine and contribute to the team, except Ryuji whose only contribution is talking the girls into wearing swimsuits for a scene that nobody enjoyed (in-game). Except Ryuji finally gets to shine at the very end, where he risks his life and almost dies, but saves everyone else. Also he is an abuse survivor who is physically disabled as a result of said abuse, and the scene where he saves everyone specifically draws attention to this by having him slow down and then punching his thigh as he makes a final sprint. Nevertheless, he is subjected slapstick violence immediately afterwards.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:32
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:It's impressive Ohya is the worst Confidant even though she has one of the best supporting characters (Lala-chan) and is the Social Link outside like, Akechi, most directly afflicted by the main plot (her friend was disappeared by the Shido Conspiracy). I think this is entirely because of the fact that it can end with a romance. If you were just some kid helping this borderline failwoman get her journalistic groove back platonically I’d probably like it more
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:36
|
|
|
Endorph posted:like tales of vesperia has a similar scene but the context is that the guy who they thought had died for them also betrayed the party before changing his mind and doing the heroic sacrifice it is one of the most cliche and standard scenes imaginable A: i cannot believe that he died to save me, i am overwhelmed with grief and shock B: i have survived and am now returning and, as i was not aware that you believed i was dead, i am not treating this moment with the tact it requires A: i am full of conflicting emotions, both immense relief and happiness at your survival but also anger at your flippant attitude and prior recklessness, so i will now weakly slap you and then begin crying B: i am in mild pain, but am now aware of your emotional state and will be considerate of it for the remainder of the scene as opposed to persona 5 where they see that ryuji survived and decide to correct it by murdering him
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:47
|
|
|
persona 4 and 5 both have this thing where they're trying to do tropey anime hijinks but as written by, seemingly, the boy in the plastic bubble
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:49
|
|
|
I feel like the beta's context to the scene makes a bit more sense, having established ryuji often wore a shirt with weird vibes
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:50
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 20:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 20:56 |
|
|
Assuming that, like most things we complain about in Persona, it's Hashino's fault, I wonder if Metaphor will be better about that kind of thing because of moving away from the high school anime tropes, being more serious and less comedic, having a mostly adult cast it seems, etc. or if it'll be weird in new ways instead
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 02:49
|
|