The US will lose WW3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

Mandel Brotset: Jan 1, 2024

BearsBearsBears posted:

https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1748440686842487289

The HMS Chiddingfold collided with HMS Bangor while berthing in Bahrain yesterday. The Chiddingfold has previously collided with the HMS Penzance. That's two UK warships damaged in Operation Property Guardian so far.

lmao

# ? Jan 20, 2024 00:31

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 13:55

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

HMS Shiddingpants

# ? Jan 20, 2024 00:39

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Someone call his majesty to tell him about his ship.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 00:41

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Frosted Flake posted:

The amount of collisions across NATO sea services in the past 15 years certainly feels like it�s on the rise, but that may just been recency bias

but the undermanning and over-deployment are known to be problems and I suspect collisions reflect that.

Could this also be visibility bias because of the internet? I feel like you'd have to be in the Navy or have access to publications by and for the Navy in order to hear about any of this stuff. Now there all kinds of outlets talking about it and going over the otherwise overlooked and unknown government reports, and you can take pictures of ships arriving at port in HD and it isn't considered espionage (in the US).

# ? Jan 20, 2024 00:56

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

skooma512 posted:

Could this also be visibility bias because of the internet? I feel like you'd have to be in the Navy or have access to publications by and for the Navy in order to hear about any of this stuff. Now there all kinds of outlets talking about it and going over the otherwise overlooked and unknown government reports, and you can take pictures of ships arriving at port in HD and it isn't considered espionage (in the US).

That seems likely. While it's hard to hide something like an entire ship sinking or a massive fire like the Bonhomme Richard, but in the age before smartphones and security cameras everywhere, we might not see things like port bonks or even the Admiral Kuznetsov losing a fight with a crane or its other follies the way we can see publicly now.

Injuries/fatalities are dropping over time in the US Navy, at least. But some of that is going to be modern engines/electronics being more reliable and safe than older systems. Not sure what all changed to make falling overboard in non-combat conditions so much less likely today than 50 years ago.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10389337/

In the US Navy, seems like 70s/80s a worse time, when it comes to crashing into things or catching fire.
https://www.history.navy.mil/about-...754)%2C%201969.

mlmp08 has issued a correction as of 01:07 on Jan 20, 2024

# ? Jan 20, 2024 01:04

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

is that by percent or total? The US navy has a lot less people in it than it used to (like half-ish of what it had in the 90s from what I can tell). I'd also be curious about how much time ships spend in dock now compared to decades ago. I'd presume a lot less people fall overboard in dock

# ? Jan 20, 2024 01:09

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

FuzzySlippers posted:

is that by percent or total? The US navy has a lot less people in it than it used to (like half-ish of what it had in the 90s from what I can tell). I'd also be curious about how much time ships spend in dock now compared to decades ago. I'd presume a lot less people fall overboard in dock

In this study, you can see that the injury rate per 100k sailors is going down over the years. It is a lot safer to be a sailor now than it was 50 years ago. Now, one would hope so... safety rules and reliability and healthcare and so on have all gotten better, so even if the incidence per sailor per year rate stayed dead level for 50 years, that would be bad safety news.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10389337/

Collision deaths do make up a large percentage of mortalities in the 2010s. Partly from a couple notable collisions, and partly because, even though it was less than the collision death TOTAL in the 1970s, stuff like fires or whatever kill less sailors in the modern era.

mlmp08 has issued a correction as of 01:14 on Jan 20, 2024

# ? Jan 20, 2024 01:12

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

I'm sure the sailors will be even safer when there are no operable surface units left in the theater

# ? Jan 20, 2024 01:18

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

There was a story a while back about sailors stuck in dock perpetually because of broken ships tend to be really depressed. Might need USO tours to San Diego

# ? Jan 20, 2024 01:27

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

BearsBearsBears posted:

https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1748440686842487289

The HMS Chiddingfold collided with HMS Bangor while berthing in Bahrain yesterday. The Chiddingfold has previously collided with the HMS Penzance. That's two UK warships damaged in Operation Property Guardian so far.

Rule the waves.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 01:35

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

so north korea has a proven underwater nuclear attack drone now.

what does the usn have to counter a silent unmanned nuclear attack from below?

# ? Jan 20, 2024 01:51

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Real hurthling! posted:

so north korea has a proven underwater nuclear attack drone now.

what does the usn have to counter a silent unmanned nuclear attack from below?

Vapourware 2.2 inch guided shells which never miss that don't have either fins or a ring of tiny Apollo capsule maneuver rockets to change direction.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 02:15

FuzzySlippers: Feb 6, 2009

tactical vibes?

# ? Jan 20, 2024 02:21

strange feelings re Daisy: Aug 2, 2000

Real hurthling! posted:

so north korea has a proven underwater nuclear attack drone now.

what does the usn have to counter a silent unmanned nuclear attack from below?

Ever heard of blockchain powered AI?

# ? Jan 20, 2024 02:45

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

We can defeat any opponent... In the metaverse.

Just got to tweak the sim parameters a bit.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 03:26

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

The world is moving on.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/pakistan-claims-it-has-hypersonic-missiles-that-has-bolstered/

After Stealth Fighter, Pakistan Claims It Has Hypersonic Missiles That Has Bolstered PAF�s Warfighting Capabilities

It is a weapon technology that the US military still struggles to induct into its arsenal. But the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) claims to have it. In a week when PAF has boasted of striking Iran within its territory, the force is claiming to have hypersonic missiles capable of flying at least speeds of Mach 5 with high maneuverability

A statement attributed to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Chief Zaheer Ahmad Babar says that the foundation for acquiring the Shenyang J-31 stealth fighter aircraft has already been laid, and it is all set to become part of the PAF�s fleet in the near future.

It may fly in Pakistan, replacing the F-16. That would mean another dive into the Chinese basket. Pakistan ordered 25 J-10CE Vigorous Dragons, in December 2021, with an option for 11 more.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 03:44

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/johnkonrad/status/1747613838847909957

nobody prepared for the possibility that the us navy might need to replace the tomahawk stockpile lmao

# ? Jan 20, 2024 03:45

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/johnkonrad/status/1747613838847909957

nobody prepared for the possibility that the us navy might need to replace the tomahawk stockpile lmao

Only need to arm the ships you can crew.

Alternatively the USA OR an ally can buy tomahawks but not both at the same time.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 03:51

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Seems too cost effective to be allowed.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/dragonfire-laser-weapon-burns-down-its-1st-aerial/

At �10 A Shot, DragonFire Laser Weapon �Burns Down� Its 1st Target; UK Joins Elite League Of Nations With DEWs

# ? Jan 20, 2024 03:57

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/johnkonrad/status/1747613838847909957

nobody prepared for the possibility that the us navy might need to replace the tomahawk stockpile lmao

In 2024, the Navy's funding of Tomahawks is focused on recertification of existing rounds so they don't expire. The USMC is acquiring new build tomahawk rounds in 2024 for their own systems, so department of navy but not navy the service. Then in 2025 and beyond, the Navy goes from recert of older tomahawks back to buying tomahawks. But that doesn't really fit into a tweet very well.

quick reference card for those seeking to dig in, though this won't capture weird one-off funding mechanisms if they come to be: https://www.secnav.navy.mil/fmc/fmb/Documents/24pres/DON_Budget_Card.pdf

mlmp08 has issued a correction as of 05:06 on Jan 20, 2024

# ? Jan 20, 2024 05:02

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

mlmp08 posted:

In 2024, the Navy's funding of Tomahawks is focused on recertification of existing rounds so they don't expire. The USMC is acquiring new build tomahawk rounds in 2024 for their own systems, so department of navy but not navy the service. Then in 2025 and beyond, the Navy goes from recert of older tomahawks back to buying tomahawks. But that doesn't really fit into a tweet very well.

quick reference card for those seeking to dig in, though this won't capture weird one-off funding mechanisms if they come to be: https://www.secnav.navy.mil/fmc/fmb/Documents/24pres/DON_Budget_Card.pdf

drat thats a lot of dollars that arent resulting in replacements for the missiles the navy is using to blow up rocks in yemen

# ? Jan 20, 2024 05:32

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Yeah, if they did this every day for a while, they'd run out eventually. Department of the Navy only buying 370 new-build tomahawks or so over the next few years as of now, so there's about 20% of that 5-year purchase gone in one day of strikes.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 05:38

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

"wait a minute why are the marines buying tomahawks"

drat this really hits all the bingo squares doesnt it

precision fires
network warfare
optimally manned (because the jeep is a remote piloted drone you see)

# ? Jan 20, 2024 06:13

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

They seem a bit goofy. The marines' idea of putting anti-ship missiles on a smallish truck makes a bit more sense to me.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 06:18

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

the general idea (putting missiles on easily concealed vehicles) seems good

# ? Jan 20, 2024 06:19

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/18/tata-steel-to-shut-down-port-talbot-blast-furnaces-3000-jobs-at-risk

quote:

theguardian.com
Tata Steel to shut down Port Talbot blast furnaces, putting 3,000 jobs at risk
Rob Davies
4�5 minutes

The owners of Port Talbot steelworks have rejected a trade union plan designed to keep its blast furnaces running, putting nearly 3,000 jobs at risk and leaving the UK on course to become the only major economy unable to make steel from scratch.

In what one union said would be a �crushing blow� to workers and UK steelmaking, Port Talbot�s parent company, the Indian-owned Tata Steel, told workers� representatives that it could no longer afford to continue production at the loss-making plant in south Wales while it completed a four-year transition plan to greener production.

The company, which is getting �500m from the government to help with that plan, broke the news during a summit at the five-star St James� Court hotel in London, which is owned by the Tata Group.

The shadow business secretary, Jonathan Reynolds, lashed out at the government for providing Tata with funds to pay for its green transition plans without securing a guarantee on jobs.

He said the government�s strategy was ��500m for 3,000 job losses�.

Under the Tata plan, which is expected to be announced formally on Friday, Port Talbot�s blast furnaces will shut down while the company builds electric arc furnaces, which make steel from recycled scrap, a greener and cheaper process.

The Guardian understands that about 200 jobs could be saved under a proposal to keep some of the site�s mills open, to roll steel slab. But the decision is a huge blow for a town where the local economy is so heavily dependent on a single factory.

The Community and GMB unions had put forward a staggered transition plan designed to provide immediate protection for workers.

Under their proposals, the blast furnaces would have remained open during the transition, with at least one continuing to operate until 2032.

But at a meeting in London on Thursday, Tata Steel is understood to have told union representatives that the proposal was unaffordable given Port Talbot�s losses, estimated at �1m a day.

The UK�s only other blast furnaces, at Scunthorpe, are also slated for shutdown during a similar, potentially lengthy transition process to electric arc furnaces.

That would leave the UK as be the only G20 country that cannot make steel from raw materials.

Stephen Kinnock, the Labour MP whose Aberavon constituency includes Port Talbot, called on the government to �rethink their approach� and adopt union proposals for a staggered transition to electric arc furnaces, with jobs protected in the meantime.

That plan had �fallen on deaf ears� during talks, according to Charlotte Brumpton-Childs, a GMB national officer.
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�Large-scale job losses would be a crushing blow to Port Talbot and UK manufacturing in general,� she said.

Shutting down Port Talbot�s two blast furnaces would mark the latest grim milestone in a decades-long decline that has seen production fall from 25m tonnes in 1971 to 6m tonnes, while employment in the sector has slumped from 250,000 to just under 34,000.

The industry trade body, UK Steel, said earlier this year that 2024 was a �crossroads� for the British steel industry, at which it could either enjoy a renaissance or continue in managed decline.

Once up and running, new electric arc furnaces will be capable of replicating some of the higher quality grades produced by blast furnaces, typically for use in the automotive industry and industrial processes such as food and drinks canning.

But making higher grades of steel that way is more difficult, meaning the UK could also lose out on the ability to make some products, relying instead on imports.

A government spokesperson said: �We are determined to secure a sustainable and competitive future for the UK steel sector, which is why we have committed �500m of UK government support that will transform the site and protect thousands of jobs � both in Port Talbot and throughout the supply chain.

�Engagement with trade unions is rightly a company-led process. There is a broad range of support for staff affected, including a dedicated transition board backed by �80m funding from UK government and �20m from Tata Steel.

�Chaired by the Welsh secretary with ministerial representation from the Welsh government, the board will support both affected employees and the local economy.�

anything the uk can't make with scrap metal steel can just be imported from the us :smuggo:

# ? Jan 20, 2024 07:00

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Megamissen posted:

the general idea (putting missiles on easily concealed vehicles) seems good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF9UufzGgYQ

Fresh fruits.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 07:04

Hubbert: Mar 25, 2007; At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

The Oldest Man posted:

"wait a minute why are the marines buying tomahawks"

drat this really hits all the bingo squares doesnt it

precision fires
network warfare
optimally manned (because the jeep is a remote piloted drone you see)

this rocks

Megamissen posted:

the general idea (putting missiles on easily concealed vehicles) seems good

kind of remarkable the payload on this kind of vehicle

BRB driving out of a concealed position to launch an anti-ship missile.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 07:10

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Who needs minuteman silos when you have a 1970s jeep with a tomahawk.

Someone is unironically saying this somewhere.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 07:35

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Those truck proportions make them look deceptively small. Still, very small compared to a ship or the army tomahawk launcher trailers they're building.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 07:47

Hubbert: Mar 25, 2007; At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

DancingShade posted:

Who needs minuteman silos when you have a 1970s jeep with a tomahawk.

Someone is unironically saying this somewhere.

just put a tactical nuke on it, bro

# ? Jan 20, 2024 08:13

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

tacticool nukes with rails and dot sights and awkward foregrips

# ? Jan 20, 2024 08:27

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

I can't find a price tag on that thing, taking all bets

# ? Jan 20, 2024 08:29

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Real hurthling! posted:

tacticool nukes with rails and dot sights and awkward foregrips

Put a flashlight and bayonet on it.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 09:06

Isentropy: Dec 12, 2010

Real hurthling! posted:

tacticool nukes with rails and dot sights and awkward foregrips

under barrel Davy Crockett launcher

# ? Jan 20, 2024 09:13

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

mlmp08 posted:

Those truck proportions make them look deceptively small. Still, very small compared to a ship or the army tomahawk launcher trailers they're building.

These mom SUVs are getting ridiculous

# ? Jan 20, 2024 09:16

Mr SuperAwesome: Apr 6, 2011; im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

Danann posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/18/tata-steel-to-shut-down-port-talbot-blast-furnaces-3000-jobs-at-risk

anything the uk can't make with scrap metal steel can just be imported from the us

complex tasks such as �making steel� are now lostech for the country that started the Industrial Revolution :sad:

# ? Jan 20, 2024 09:55

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Mr SuperAwesome posted:

complex tasks such as �making steel� are now lostech for the country that started the Industrial Revolution

owned literally and figuratively by a ex-colony

# ? Jan 20, 2024 10:22

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

Mr SuperAwesome posted:

complex tasks such as �making steel� are now lostech for the country that started the Industrial Revolution

*adam curtis voice*
and so a funny thing happened. the country that fenced off land for its sheep forcing its dispossessed to go conquer the world ended up turning right around and fencing itself off from the world

Owlbear Camus has issued a correction as of 10:49 on Jan 20, 2024

# ? Jan 20, 2024 10:46

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 13:55

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

British hired an Indian banker PM to finish the deindustrialization for them. At this rate, they will get rid of their industries before they get rid of the monarchy. Amazing stuff.

# ? Jan 20, 2024 11:04

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