(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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How much is Taiwan involved in Ukraine? They're the country that could learn the most from observing Ukrainian tactics up close
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Jan 20, 2024 15:36
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 09:45 |
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Yeah its one thing to point and laugh at the corruption cases - China certainly has big corruption problems in its military. The water in the missiles is akin to the 'eggbox ERA' or 'crumbly tires' But its another thing to dismiss them entirely as a complete joke or paper tiger. They are engaging in an enormous military buildup and are churning out modern aircraft, ships and missiles left and right - including some quite modern designs that are leaps and bounds more capable than what they had before. Even Russia - which probably has even worse corruption issues - is showing that even if your military isn;t as capable as your propaganda touts, if you choose to go all in you can still utterly ruin your neighbour's future in the process.
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Jan 20, 2024 15:57
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If the war between china and the west is going to be about scaling up war production like WW2 was, my money is going to be on china.
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Jan 20, 2024 16:03
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spankmeister posted:If the war between china and the west is going to be about scaling up war production like WW2 was, my money is going to be on china. The X-man cometh posted:How much is Taiwan involved in Ukraine? They're the country that could learn the most from observing Ukrainian tactics up close
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Jan 20, 2024 16:08
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spankmeister posted:If the war between china and the west is going to be about scaling up war production like WW2 was, my money is going to be on china. i'll take that bet and your money. the west has substantially longer range cruise missiles and much better air defense. a total war would definitely see those missiles used on existing industrial complexes, with relative impunity from the chinese cruise missiles that could even reach their targets.
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Jan 20, 2024 16:30
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Alright I'll start saving bottlecaps to pay the debt. 
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Jan 20, 2024 16:32
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Coolguye posted:i'll take that bet and your money. Only one way to find out for sure! Better we strike first then to maximize the element of surprise.
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Jan 20, 2024 16:32
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The X-man cometh posted:How much is Taiwan involved in Ukraine? They're the country that could learn the most from observing Ukrainian tactics up close Two pretty different situations (land invasion vs amphibious), but the biggest lessons they could learn from Ukraine would be. 1. Anti-missile defense (cruise and ballistic) 2. Anti-Air defense (drone and jet) 3. Anti-ship missiles (surface and sub) 4. Artillery, artillery, artillery (tube and MLRS) 5. Mines! Mines everywhere! (esp. anti-armour) Wikipedia says that they are not skimping on the first 4, and most nations rarely publish the number of mines they have laying around. Ukraine and Russia (and unfortunately Belarus) share a massively long border and it's pretty much impossible to hold the line against the initial invasion. You have to cede territory, regroup, and counter-attack when that kind of space is involved. You can fall back for days, weeks, months, or even years, and still not actually lose. Taiwan on the other hand doesn't have the luxury of ceding time or space since they are a relatively small nation. Taiwan does in fact have some advantages though. The most obvious one is the ~170km wide Taiwan Strait, meaning that China has to physically sail or fly every soldier and piece of equipment to Taiwan as opposed to taking them by rail to the border and having everything walk/drive across. This makes the logistics of an invasion exponentially more difficult. Because of the geography of Taiwan and the patterns of the tides, currents, etc. They know that there are only so many suitable locations for amphibious landings, even fewer that are facing the mainland, and even fewer still that are not literally walled off by impassable terrain. Taiwan's strategy would be to keep the PLAN out of the strait, the PLAAF out of their airspace, and the PLA off their beaches. If the PLAN does make it to the beaches, you have to make it such an absolute bloodbath that the CCP can't even push people at gunpoint into the next wave of landing craft. Seeing how artillery is still queen of the battlefield, Taiwan's best bet is to make sure they have enough tubes and MLRS to turn whatever touches their soil into a fine red paste. Their defensive missiles will never be able to outlast the mainland's offensive ones, so making the beaches impossible to exist on is their best bet. What we've seen in Ukraine is that the best way to make an area uninhabitable is to sprinkle it liberally with mines and have tube and rocket artillery able to plaster it. So if you want to have your beaches exploding enough to keep CCP tourists off them, your artillery is going to need to be either very hardened, or very mobile. Ukraine has demonstrated that highly-mobile artillery can be very survivable, assuming you keep it moving. One thing that helped was the Russian delay in return fire via missiles, something that would be replicated given the distances involved in a Taiwan invasion. Unfortunately, every lesson that Taiwan learns from Ukraine (what to do) will probably be matched by a lesson China learns from Russia (what not to do).
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Jan 20, 2024 16:46
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spankmeister posted:Alright I'll start saving bottlecaps to pay the debt. i say this as earnestly and non-condescendingly as i can, but... how do you think that "deficit spending" works in a fiat economy? when Congress allots for the defense budget every year, what do you think their law actually says to do, mechanically? what they do is instruct the federal reserve to update a bunch of accounts for the various alphabet organizations to simply have more money than they did yesterday. DoD subsection A had $40MM, now today they have $440MM. or whatever. that's it. it's done. nothing more needs to be said, no taxes need to be raised, nothing else has to happen. the Treasury MAY eventually sell government securities, but they do so at a price they dictate. the only say-so the "market" has in the matter is to refuse to buy those securities at the given price, in the hopes of pushing bond prices (and inflation) higher. taxes DO play a serious and required part by removing money from the larger economic pool, but that has to do with valuation of the total economy, not the federal government's need to use those dollars. they literally control the printing presses. they're not like a household, or even your state level government. they all have to spend what they earn, and that's that. but that's it. even then, note the printing of treasury bonds (debts) is a "may". there's nothing requiring them to. the only thing that matters in terms of a country's overall spending power is that inflation number. as long as that doesn't go up, you're fine and can continue spending. the world didn't react poorly to a literal decade of unprecedented money-printing to stave off the Great Recession from becoming a new Depression. that's what quantitative easing was all about. the federal reserve simply updated a shitload of bank accounts every month to say "okay, various banks and industries, you now just have More Money. please enjoy it.  "using this same principle it would neither be hard, nor unprecedented, for Congress to simply pass a law tomorrow to say "okay, Fed, please print enough money that literally all foreign held debits are satisfied in full." "the debt" could be extinguished with a stroke of a pen, and it would be genuinely less overall money to do so than QE was. this is the heart and soul of modern monetary theory. this idea that we all have a "share" of the debt that we are responsible for is gold-standard thinking. we haven't been in a gold standard world for coming up on 100 years. something like zimbabwe or venezuela happens when monetary policy is massively abused as a point of national policy, usually for spite purposes. as long as the amount of money in an economy doesn't massively overrepresent the goods and services to be measured in the economy, inflation won't get out of control and everything will generally continue as normal. this is ultimately why countries went to fiat currencies. money is actually measuring goods, services, ingenuity, innovation, etc - and a complex monetary policy captured that better than some arbitrary amount of gold, loosely and poorly integrated into a global currency scheme. if you think i'm a psycho on all this, i recommend you pick up The Deficit Myth, by Stephanie Kelton. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 16:48
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Those are a lot of words to respond to a fallout joke
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Jan 20, 2024 16:55
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your last few posts didn't make me likely to read stuff as a joke. sorry if that wasn't as serious as i read it but you were pretty in there.
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Jan 20, 2024 16:58
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I appreciated it
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Jan 20, 2024 17:10
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Baronjutter posted:God, I so wish we were living in the End of History and the current issue was talking about if Russia was ready to join the EU or not and how exciting China's liberal political reforms of the last 10 years have been. Where's my rules based international order I was promised? Where's the unstoppable march of democracy and human rights fueled by the expansion of open markets we were told was inevitable? It died during the W Bush administration. The GWOT, the Iraq War, and contempt for diplomacy really did a number on the premise that we can all get along if we all follow the rules.
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Jan 20, 2024 17:49
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RandomPauI posted:It died during the W Bush administration. The GWOT, the Iraq War, and contempt for diplomacy really did a number on the premise that we can all get along if we all follow the rules. it died on september 11 2001 9:03:02 am, the rest of the bush admin was just the rolling around and death rattles
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Jan 20, 2024 17:51
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The exact date and time it was revealed that middle class white people had not actually succeeded in making themselves invulnerable to the rest of the world.
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Jan 20, 2024 19:10
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Iraq II is what I think killed it off. Afghanistan, while probably ill-conceived, was within the "rule-based" framework and had wide support including for example from russia and Iran.  https://www.jstor.org/stable/45242315 Which you'll note are the biggest pain in the rear end right now. W had a chance to normalize relations with this momentum and instead antagonized everyone
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Jan 20, 2024 19:15
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RandomPauI posted:It died during the W Bush administration. The GWOT, the Iraq War, and contempt for diplomacy really did a number on the premise that we can all get along if we all follow the rules. Russia moving tens of thousands of tanks and other equipment to Siberia to keep them out of the scope of the Conventional Forces Europe treaty in 1990, equipment they are currently pulling from to keep up with their insane losses in Ukraine, should have been a hint the Russians had long term plans to use that stuff. European NATO countries had no choice but to scrap or sell everything over the limit. And in the years since they got rid of most of what they had within the limit as well.
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Jan 20, 2024 19:28
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https://kyivindependent.com/slovak-pm-promised-to-block-nato-entry-for-ukraine-said-it-must-cede-territory/quote:Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico came out with another anti-Ukrainian public statement on Jan. 20, telling Slovak radio that he would block Ukraine's accession to NATO.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:36
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CeeJee posted:Russia moving tens of thousands of tanks and other equipment to Siberia to keep them out of the scope of the Conventional Forces Europe treaty in 1990, equipment they are currently pulling from to keep up with their insane losses in Ukraine, should have been a hint the Russians had long term plans to use that stuff. Why would they need tanks? America will always come to the rescue. At least Europe kept the bones of a domestic aero industry around. Look at what Canada and Britain are reduced to.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:39
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Slovakia looked at Russia, Belarus and Hungary in 2023 and decided "yes, what we need is a strongman leader with connections to organized crime and who simps for Putin". Hopefully you enjoy being blacklisted in EU with your pal Hungary.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:42
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Weird that every time confiscating Russian funds comes up it's the same dipshits that suddenly start announcing they won't support any action again. Probably nothing. Be nice if some of them remembered that it isn't the dark ages anymore. Putin is a real piece of poo poo.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:54
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Sedgr posted:Weird that every time confiscating Russian funds comes up it's the same dipshits that suddenly start announcing they won't support any action again. Probably nothing. I have a morbid curiosity to see what Trump would do if he was given a free hand. I'd put the odds at 50:50 he'd do something incredibly selfish (pocket it) or incredibly blatant (give it back to Putin). The ever more morbid curiosity is how his base would spin either option.
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Jan 20, 2024 20:59
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Blistex posted:I have a morbid curiosity to see what Trump would do if he was given a free hand. I'd put the odds at 50:50 he'd do something incredibly selfish (pocket it) or incredibly blatant (give it back to Putin). Trump would offer a "compromise" which is saying Russia gets what it wants or the US stops all aid. 5 years later, Russia will attack again. Sedgr posted:Putin is a real piece of poo poo.
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Jan 20, 2024 21:03
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Well guess I ain't taking a trip to my ancestral homeland while this dipshit is in power.
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Jan 20, 2024 21:12
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Blistex posted:I have a morbid curiosity to see what Trump would do if he was given a free hand. I'd put the odds at 50:50 he'd do something incredibly selfish (pocket it) or incredibly blatant (give it back to Putin). His base would just do the usual talking points of "why are we spending SO MUCH MONEY and OTHERS especially NAZIS when we can try to spend some stuff on OURSELVES(as long as its not education or healthcare) because those PANSIES have been leeching off our TAXES long enough!"
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Jan 20, 2024 21:18
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bunnyofdoom posted:Well guess I ain't taking a trip to my ancestral homeland while this dipshit is in power. Come to Bohemia where we have this absolute chad  
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Jan 20, 2024 21:21
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Ah a new Russian video game F
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Jan 20, 2024 21:36
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mobby_6kl posted:Come to Bohemia where we have this absolute chad Yeah, so har the Czech Republic supported Ukraine by performative actions such as making things hell for Belarusian students including already enrolled. Visa ban. Congrats, thats the easiest thing to do while having zero impact on actual war. I saw no effort on CZ or for that matter other EU countries to sanction or grassroot boycotte Raiffeisen Bank or Auchan, the bank is barely pulling out asmost 3 years since the war started. But harsh stance on students and refugees will surely help
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Jan 20, 2024 21:41
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I agree we should be instead bombing Belarus and Russia right now but at least the Czechs aren't blocking EU funding for Ukraine
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Jan 20, 2024 21:46
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Sekenr posted:Yeah, so har the Czech Republic supported Ukraine by performative actions such as making things hell for Belarusian students including already enrolled. Visa ban. Congrats, thats the easiest thing to do while having zero impact on actual war. I saw no effort on CZ or for that matter other EU countries to sanction or grassroot boycotte Raiffeisen Bank or Auchan, the bank is barely pulling out asmost 3 years since the war started. But harsh stance on students and refugees will surely help The Czechs donated guns, small arms ammo, artillery shells, and cash afaik
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Jan 20, 2024 22:33
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https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1748684707825328448 Sounds like a job for our old friend the cardboard drone 
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Jan 21, 2024 00:05
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Coolguye posted:your last few posts didn't make me likely to read stuff as a joke. sorry if that wasn't as serious as i read it but you were pretty in there. thanks for the summary anyway, it's not the sort of thing people tend to think about
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Jan 21, 2024 00:29
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zone posted:https://kyivindependent.com/slovak-pm-promised-to-block-nato-entry-for-ukraine-said-it-must-cede-territory/ I hope Denys beats the poo poo out of him and gives him a swirly for good measure.
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Jan 21, 2024 00:30
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WHAT THE gently caress IS UP DENYS
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Jan 21, 2024 00:38
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https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1748786947936432282quote:Russian city of Saratov. Reportedly, this is a line to buy eggs. quote:In Saratov, Russia, people are standing in large queues for eggs and making large stockpiles of them. 
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Jan 21, 2024 00:43
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Russia is doing fine, everyone. Everything is just fine. The perfidious NATO and western imperialist sanctions have had little to no effect!
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Jan 21, 2024 00:50
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Jan 21, 2024 00:52
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Well Pootin did want to bring back USSR...
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Jan 21, 2024 00:57
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0.86 USD per dozen is record-breakingly inflated?
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Jan 21, 2024 01:26
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 09:45 |
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:0.86 USD per dozen is record-breakingly inflated? The Russian economy can't handle .86 eggs lol
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Jan 21, 2024 01:34
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