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Ginette Reno posted:I still wonder how they would even do DLC given their stated aversion to high level d&d. I suspect they got over their aversion. Personally I’m hoping for a decent expansion in the old school tradition, something that adds the length of 1 act to the game. It seems like there are 2 really good DLC hooks already - going after Lae’zel on the astral plane and helping Karlach in Avernus; they could assign 4 levels to each of them.
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Jan 21, 2024 19:39
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Ginette Reno posted:I still wonder how they would even do DLC given their stated aversion to high level d&d. I think limiting those abilities within a 20-30 hour expansion zone would help them better balance around some of the quite frankly ridiculous 7th level spells. Or Larian could just cut the most obviously ridiculous ones, they didn't keep everything in BG3 and they're under no obligation to do so again.
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Jan 21, 2024 19:41
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Ginette Reno posted:Act 3 is a long way away. Using that item early lets you have a high CHA for most of the game and you can then spend your second feat on something like dual wield so you can use two staves or alert etc I mean you can make that same argument for any of the characters in your party. Str and Cha both have more options for pumping the stat up than other stats do, so it makes more sense to me at least to give the item to a dex based character if you have one.
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Jan 21, 2024 19:41
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exquisite tea posted:I think limiting those abilities within a 20-30 hour expansion zone would help them better balance around some of the quite frankly ridiculous 7th level spells. Or Larian could just cut the most obviously ridiculous ones, they didn't keep everything in BG3 and they're under no obligation to do so again. I feel like they’d make. the expansion a seperate thing that you import your save file into, rather than just seamlessly add extra areas to the main game; given that they wouldn’t want to disrupt the existing epilogue and whatnot. plus obviously as you hint at, it would gently caress up the balance of act 3 if they just added areas and increased the level cap because you hit 12 pretty early in the act.
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Jan 21, 2024 19:44
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The Lord Bude posted:I mean you can make that same argument for any of the characters in your party. Str and Cha both have more options for pumping the stat up than other stats do, so it makes more sense to me at least to give the item to a dex based character if you have one. I guess it depends on how you want to prioritize your party. I imagine most people want to max out their PC before anyone else, in which case if you were playing a cha based char you'd want the early boost. I know when I play my pc sucks up all the good items and stat boosts like a vacuum  . Everyone else can get my leavings.exquisite tea posted:I think limiting those abilities within a 20-30 hour expansion zone would help them better balance around some of the quite frankly ridiculous 7th level spells. Or Larian could just cut the most obviously ridiculous ones, they didn't keep everything in BG3 and they're under no obligation to do so again. That's true The Lord Bude posted:I suspect they got over their aversion. Personally I’m hoping for a decent expansion in the old school tradition, something that adds the length of 1 act to the game. It seems like there are 2 really good DLC hooks already - going after Lae’zel on the astral plane and helping Karlach in Avernus; they could assign 4 levels to each of them. I think it would be hard to make a DLC based on choices made in the end game because not everyone is going to be friends with Lae'zel or Karlach. How do you make a DLC based on helping Karlach when some players will have killed her or had her die?
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Jan 21, 2024 19:46
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There was another cult consisting of three more power hungry idiots controlling the other cult the whole time 
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Jan 21, 2024 19:48
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Ginette Reno posted:I think it would be hard to make a DLC based on choices made in the end game because not everyone is going to be friends with Lae'zel or Karlach. How do you make a DLC based on helping Karlach when some players will have killed her or had her die? Then they don't deserve to play the dlc, and they will need to go back and make better choices. 
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Jan 21, 2024 19:50
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The Lord Bude posted:I feel like they’d make. the expansion a seperate thing that you import your save file into, rather than just seamlessly add extra areas to the main game; given that they wouldn’t want to disrupt the existing epilogue and whatnot. plus obviously as you hint at, it would gently caress up the balance of act 3 if they just added areas and increased the level cap because you hit 12 pretty early in the act. I want to be able to import my endgame level 15 toon and start a new game like I did in BG1. Incendiary Cloud the goblin camp.
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Jan 21, 2024 19:51
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mitochondritom posted:Based on the sheer number of possible endings, it's going to be challenging to do a straight up continuation.
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Jan 21, 2024 19:52
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Ginette Reno posted:I think it would be hard to make a DLC based on choices made in the end game because not everyone is going to be friends with Lae'zel or Karlach. How do you make a DLC based on helping Karlach when some players will have killed her or had her die? I think the most obvious solution would be writing alternatives in the event that certain characters are missing/dead until you finally get down to characters that will only appear if no one else can be found. This is what Larian did for certain rare Grove outcomes and how Mass Effect and Dragon Age carried your major choices into the next installments. So maybe the part that is supposed to be played by Karlach if she's not available is Wyll, and if he's not available then Flo, then all the way down the line until you finally have legally distinct Karlack as your primary companion in the expansion zone.
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Jan 21, 2024 19:52
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exquisite tea posted:I think the most obvious solution would be writing alternatives in the event that certain characters are missing/dead until you finally get down to characters that will only appear if no one else can be found. This is what Larian did for certain rare Grove outcomes and how Mass Effect and Dragon Age carried your major choices into the next installments. So maybe the part that is supposed to be played by Karlach if she's not available is Wyll, and if he's not available then Flo, then all the way down the line until you finally have legally distinct Karlack as your primary companion in the expansion zone. The hook for those games wasn't "go help xyz npc" though so much as "here's a new set of poo poo happening, and we're bringing back some of your bros to deal with it but not all of them, have fun". I could see something where like the DLC is centered around Vlaakith and the Githyanki conflict and whether Lae'zel becomes a big part of that or not depends on choices you made in the original game. Or you go to hell and whether Karlach is there or not or is a factor in the story depends on what you did with her. So yeah pretty much what you said. I just don't think the core stories of a DLC would be necessarily centered around any party members from the original. That'd be too hard to account for all the choices.
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Jan 21, 2024 19:57
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Astarion liberating and definitely not stuck fighting 7,000 Vampires in a 2nd times the charm quest. 
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Jan 21, 2024 20:04
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Black Noise posted:Astarion liberating and definitely not stuck fighting 7,000 Vampires in a 2nd times the charm quest. e: last scenario might not work if you kept Shadowheart around and she can send them all screaming with their hair on fire. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 21, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 20:16
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BG3 arena shooter would be a departure, but they made Dragon Commander so I can see it
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Jan 21, 2024 20:17
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BG3 mario party spin off when?
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Jan 21, 2024 20:19
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None of the companions can use heavy armour, except one but she has 13 dex by default. Larian fails once again.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:33
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About the only DLC story expansion options that fit what happens 100% of the time would be 1. Baldur's Gate needs to be rebuilt and who knows what weird stuff gets discovered as the Upper City gets cleaned up 2. Mephistopheles wants to know which of you little shits has his crown (exact status of the crown isn't relevant to an archdevil raising some hell over it). The biggest problem is that it's entirely possible for Tav to be, well, not available following the conclusion of the main game.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:34
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mitochondritom posted:Based on the sheer number of possible endings, it's going to be challenging to do a straight up continuation. Ginette Reno posted:
In BG2, they just decided to make one ending from BG1 "canon" and proceeded from there. There were a few times when you'd meet an NPC and were given the option in dialog of saying, "I thought you were dead/nice to meet you/good to see you again". I have no idea what effect choosing one of those dialog options had on the game broadly, but that's how they did it. I do not make games, but it also occurs to me that the problem is not *that* much different from how they already must have to account for player choices from act to act. I have this mental picture of a branching tree, where the game assigns a counter to each choice you make and what "branches" are available from that point depend on what you did. If you kill an NPC, obviously future conversations won't have the option for that NPC to chime in, and it probably gets even more complicated depending on things like an NPC's like/dislike for your prior choices, how you resolved certain quests/sub-quests, etc.* I get that it's increasingly more complicated the more choices you make, but if it gets bogged down because the math becomes too complex, well, that's what computar machines are for. As a practical matter, though, how many people that finished the game are going to refuse to buy the DLC because not all of their choices are represented? In my current run, I failed a check in the fight with Orin. She'd captured Lae'zel and my failure ended in her death and my inability to resurrect her. I figured I'd just play on and let all that sweet gith-specific gear go to waste. My point is that if the DLC focuses on that character, I'm still going to buy it because I now trust Larian to make a great game that I'll enjoy playing even if it involves some ret-conning on my part between how I finished the game and what the DLC tells me happened... My guess is that Larian will look at how most people completed the game and design any DLC with those choices as the defined "way it happened," with maybe some wiggle room for a few different options. That or they'll just make an entirely new campaign. I'd be happy if they release several DLCs, with each being as long as Act I or II, with entirely new characters and maybe even a different setting. More likely we'll be going to Avernus or Space, if they even decide to make more content, but a man can hope.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:46
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Ginette Reno posted:Are you having Shadowheart use bless? That alone would give usually somewhere in the range of +10% to hit. I've been generally having her either use Faerie Fire at the start and then Shield of Faith once things get too mixed up, maybe I should start doing bless although that's going to be less of an option once she gets spirit guardians to concentrate on. She's at 19 Charisma already, I spent my first feat on +2 charisma. As far as the +1 stat boost, I was planning on giving it to my Tav for +1 charisma but maybe I should give it to Shadowheart for +1 wisdom? I don't have the game open right now but IIRC she's at 19 after using the first feat for +2 wisdom, my two physical characters are both strength-based so +dex like someone suggested doesn't really help. Also today I learned that spellcasting attack rolls are based on your spellcasting modifier, I thought that if they were ranged they used dex. My previous playthroughs my spellcasters have pretty much exclusively been using magic missile or AOE stuff when they aren't saving their spells in trash fights by just throwing IGNIS around, so spell attacks haven't come up much except as "Well I guess Gale needs something to do while my fighters clear out these 1-hit enemies." E: I wonder if I should give her the risky ring in act 2, I've also been trying to get her high ground for advantage more often which isn't something I generally think about. Throwlach is obviously busted (sometimes literally when it decides that the roof is 1' above your head instead of 10' so it blocks your throws) so she doesn't need the extra chance to hit, and IDK if I want to give disadvantage to my battlemaster that already keeps getting most of the aggro at this point. Maybe the AC situation for battlemaster Lae'zel will be better by act 2. 22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jan 21, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 20:50
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rojay posted:In BG2, they just decided to make one ending from BG1 "canon" and proceeded from there. There were a few times when you'd meet an NPC and were given the option in dialog of saying, "I thought you were dead/nice to meet you/good to see you again". I have no idea what effect choosing one of those dialog options had on the game broadly, but that's how they did it. This would be my preference, because I feel like Bioware's later attempts at this (Dragon Age and Mass Effect) are pretty hollow in how they do this. Basing an expansion around Karlack makes a lot of sense to me except she exploded and died on a pier in my game. Also there's a version where she heroically sacrificed herself to become a mind-flayer. Also there's a version where my character became a mind-flayer. There doesn't seem to be a way to accommodate all this without losing the impact of any of those choices..
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Jan 21, 2024 20:51
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“Whithers brought them back” is already baked in to any DLC they want to make.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:52
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Baldurs Gate 3: A Withers Did It.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:55
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Geekboy posted:“Whithers brought them back” is already baked in to any DLC they want to make. Withers can bring back someone that has been vaporized by a magic laser, but can't be bothered to give Karlach back her real heart when he does it. (Also the true resurrection scroll, also Elminster definitely knowing "Wish" and us having like 100k gold by the end)
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Jan 21, 2024 20:58
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I've been avoiding the Elf Song because I've heard negative things about the camp location and I do like my moonlight view. So if I get the room will I still be able to use the camp waypoint to just warp to the room?
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Jan 21, 2024 21:04
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No, if you get the room that's your camp for the remainder of the game, iirc. e: At least in the Lower City. You go back out to the wilderness in Rivington/Wyrm's Crossing.
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Jan 21, 2024 21:06
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22 Eargesplitten posted:true resurrection scroll
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Jan 21, 2024 21:31
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Monathin posted:No, if you get the room that's your camp for the remainder of the game, iirc. I mean if you look at your map in game you have a menu of waypoints on the right one of them says camp. Does that waypoint persist? And I'm assuming making that the camp means you always start the day at the Elf Song if you are in the lower city. I usually try to start at the Basilisk Gate so we can get the Anointed in Splendor Buff so the walk is only a little bit further. Shumagorath posted:Was this added in recent updates so Gale can attend the party...? I think it's always been there in case you actually leave Gale to die at some point.
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Jan 21, 2024 21:35
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exquisite tea posted:Not all RTWP is inherently bad, FF7R was technically RTWP and I think they pulled off the combat system there beautifully. My main issue as it has been implemented in many CRPGs is that you don't really get to enjoy the satisfaction of watching your guys do stuff because you either have to micromanage them every 0.2 seconds to keep them from blowing each other up, or the combat is so braindead that the game practically plays itself. In turn-based each move feels more impactful, more tactical, more opportunities to reach into your pockets during a particularly bleak-looking situation and pull out the perfect spell scroll that saves the day. Everybody has a story like that in BG3, less so for "...and then my guys auto-beat down the 10,000th darkspawn trash mob in the Deep Roads" of Dragon Age Origins. POE 1/2 do it really well, but i think people are just so resistant to it that its generally not worth doing, even well
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Jan 21, 2024 22:12
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the reason FF7R works for modern audiences and PoE1/PoE2 generally do not comes down to complexity: FF7R is an action game first and foremost with some RPG elements added to promote tactical thinking, whereas PoE1/PoE2 are primarily games of numbers that require you to track a lot of granular effects that are all happening in real time, something that only appeals to a relative minority in the new millenia
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Jan 21, 2024 22:14
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Vermain posted:the reason FF7R works for modern audiences and PoE1/PoE2 generally do not comes down to complexity: FF7R is an action game first and foremost with some RPG elements added to promote tactical thinking, whereas PoE1/PoE2 are primarily games of numbers that require you to track a lot of granular effects that are all happening in real time, something that only appeals to a relative minority in the new millenia sure yeah. its a shame, though, because the character systems in POE are basically unmatched in how well they were executed
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Jan 21, 2024 22:18
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Verviticus posted:sure yeah. its a shame, though, because the character systems in POE are basically unmatched in how well they were executed they're two of my favorite RPGs ever, just right behind this one (and still probably ahead in terms of pure mechanics), but i have to sadly face the music and assume that a theoretical PoE3 is going to be turn based only
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Jan 21, 2024 22:19
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Verviticus posted:POE 1/2 do it really well, but i think people are just so resistant to it that its generally not worth doing, even well POE1 had one of the dullest combat systems I can recall in recent memory. Way overdesigned and finicky for such an unimpressive result. I never played the sequel. It's one of the first examples that comes to mind when I think about RTWP requiring too much micromanagement.
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Jan 21, 2024 22:56
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I like Poe a lot. Even more than BG3. For me a lot of it comes down to the character building complexity. Poe offers a ton of freedom to make exotic builds and the item design is imo superior to BG3 which has relatively boring itemization in comparison. That said, I like both games a lot, so I'm not one of those whose is either/or on this. I also feel the same way on rtwp vs turn based. I wouldn't say I prefer one over the other. It just depends on if the game I'm playing uses their systems well. I've played turn based games that have felt like a slog and I've played rtwp games that are a bit too micro intensive. exquisite tea posted:POE1 had one of the dullest combat systems I can recall in recent memory. Way overdesigned and finicky for such an unimpressive result. I never played the sequel. It's one of the first examples that comes to mind when I think about RTWP requiring too much micromanagement. The sequel has pretty customizable AI which makes it a lot easier to reduce the micro involved in playing. That said if you bounced that hard off the first one I dunno if you'd like the second one either. Deadfire does improve on Poe1 in pretty much every way though.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:24
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Professor Beetus posted:No, I don't think so. There may be some trite or silly d&d tropes, but BG3 is light years beyond the poo poo that was coming out in the 90s and aughts. No, I don't mean if it was competing directly against those games. I mean that it benefits from basically having no recent AAA competition in the genre. It's a great game, It would be a great game regardless, but I think the thing that's going to make it timeless Is that it's going to be the only representation of this kind of game for this era of game design.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:37
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The sequel also has a turn based mode. Granted there is some weirdness with it since the game was not designed with it in mind, but it works pretty drat well all things considered. I hear that reducing hp totals by mod can help speed it up. A goon made a mod to do just that in fact. PoE II has bar none the best character building in any CRPG ever imho, for the simple fact that it allows a very smooth on ramp from this is my character concept to actually playing as that character in practice. And the multi class system is a huge reason for that. It's a simple, logical system. Pick two classes, get access to all their abilities up to the seventh tier. There are nine tiers. It's immediately intuitive how it works and what you're giving up, and it really does allow any idea you have to exist in the game.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:38
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Shumagorath posted:What's with everyone's hate for RTWP? Because the most popular crpgs with rtwp gameplay adapt a turn-based system, D&D, into real time and suck rear end in the process. There's a lot of great rtwp games but they don't advertise themselves as such because people only use that acronym in the context of crpgs. Total War, any Mimimi tactical stealth game, action rpgs that let you pause and enter commands while paused (FF7R got mentioned and I can't really disagree that it's technically rtwp). Good games with rtwp were designed for it from the ground up, like any other game would. Bad rtwp adapts a turn-based system into real time and does so poorly, without adding anything to make the real time tactical element interesting. It basically leaves you with a simple rts without any interesting micro or macro gameplay. The Infinity Engine games, and their imitators, all have this as a problem. Runa fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 23:47
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I think it's a small miracle that Larian was dead set on convincing WotC to give them the license to make BG3, they cut their teeth on turn-based crpgs and they went in with the mission statement of, okay let's bring back the Baldur's Gate series but make the gameplay as good as the story this time.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:50
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Runa posted:Because the most popular crpgs with rtwp gameplay adapt a turn-based system, D&D, into real time and suck rear end in the process. There's a lot of great rtwp games but they don't advertise themselves as such because people only use that acronym in the context of crpgs. Total War, any Minimi tactical stealth game, action rpgs that let you pause and enter commands while paused (FF7R got mentioned and I can't really disagree that it's technically rtwp). Good games with rtwp were designed for it from the ground up, like any other game would. BG2 and BG3 have exceptional gameplay but I feel like it's in spite of D&D and not because of it. As good as BG3 is I'd wager it'd be even better with a system that Larian designed from the ground up
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Jan 22, 2024 00:02
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Ginette Reno posted:BG2 and BG3 have exceptional gameplay but I feel like it's in spite of D&D and not because of it. Yep. Say what you will of divinity combat in terms of the mess it could be. There's plenty of fair shots to be taken. But in terms of being inventive and interesting it is leagues better. I think the main things that make BG3 competitive are the sheer volume of options and the more interesting simulation going on underneath. But those are natural improvements based on a higher budget, I think.
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Jan 22, 2024 00:06
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Ginette Reno posted:BG2 and BG3 have exceptional gameplay but I feel like it's in spite of D&D and not because of it. I do think it's good that they're working with adapting a system not completely designed in-house, the D:OS games did have some quirks that a lot of people found annoying. I strongly dislike D&D5e but I have to admit that within those bounds Larian made something pretty great, and even made some common-sense/QoL changes to the system that are so sensible that it's a wonder the original ttrpg didn't include them. The answer is because 5e's lead designer, Mike Mearls, is a hack and a moron. So much of a moron that he helped one of 5e's playtesters, an accused serial rapist, dox and track down his accusers and their friends.
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Jan 22, 2024 00:11
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