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Brain In A Jar posted:Yeah, it’s not so much that it’s overwhelming, more that I’m not convinced why 20 potency is worth sweating over when the theory world calls for the rotation to be 1-b-c 1-2-3 1-b-3 1-2-3 1-2-c 1-b-3 with interwoven off cool-down abilities, but 1-b-c 1-b-3 1-b-3 1-b-c does close to the same thing but sustainably guarantees effectively infinite buff uptime when target switches, adds or aoe avoidance invalidates the “perfect” rotation anyway. The way MNK ultimately shakes out at L50+ is that you will have two attacks for each slot/form. Both the first two are alternated every cycle, and for the third you indeed apply the dot every 3rd cycle. So, the way you want to rotate the three hit combo cycles for the vast majority of the game is abc > 123 > ab3 > 12c > ab3 > 123 and repeat. What you do in corner cases where you are forced outside of that standard rotation -- due to being synced below L50 (E: or being L50 and starting a fight without a form), coming in with weird resources from prior trash or due to dealing with the very janky L50 to L59 version of Perfect Balance -- isn't really worth worrying about. Most Monks will eat a small potency loss to get into the standard rotation ASAP if they're in a situation where they have to, even in the sweatiest of savage content. Cutting out True Strike at low level sync is fine, just be aware that Bootshine & True Strike will always be combo'd together in the standard rotation later. Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 23:43
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I guess I played an FFXIV trial like half a decade ago (never subbed) and wanted to see if the game had changed enough to be actually fun now. I tried to log in, and it says that the modern trial is only for never-triers, but that someone on it can play to level 60 with no time limit? Am I really out of luck to jump on the modern trial because I'd previously tried (and not liked) the game so long ago with their week trial or whatever?
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Jan 21, 2024 18:42
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Nitrousoxide posted:I guess I played an FFXIV trial like half a decade ago (never subbed) and wanted to see if the game had changed enough to be actually fun now. I tried to log in, and it says that the modern trial is only for never-triers, but that someone on it can play to level 60 with no time limit? If you ever spent money on the game you're SOL on that account, but nothing stops you from making a new account and starting over. Free trial gets access to the base game and the first two expansions, up to level 70.
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Jan 21, 2024 18:43
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The only circumstance where I wouldn't make a new account after 10 years away is if you'd get the cool legacy tattoo
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Jan 21, 2024 18:52
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FuturePastNow posted:The only circumstance where I wouldn't make a new account after 10 years away is if you'd get the cool legacy tattoo
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Jan 21, 2024 18:58
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I really should update the OP with stuff about the expanded free trial. And probably a bunch of other things.
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Jan 21, 2024 19:11
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Nitrousoxide posted:I guess I played an FFXIV trial like half a decade ago (never subbed) and wanted to see if the game had changed enough to be actually fun now. I tried to log in, and it says that the modern trial is only for never-triers, but that someone on it can play to level 60 with no time limit? What didn't you find fun about the game?
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Jan 21, 2024 19:20
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quiggy posted:If you ever spent money on the game you're SOL on that account, but nothing stops you from making a new account and starting over. Free trial gets access to the base game and the first two expansions, up to level 70. Looks like the Steam demo is locked to my old account now, oops. I was able to install the XIV Launcher from flathub though and get in through that on a new account. Ibram Gaunt posted:What didn't you find fun about the game? I don't remember very well, but I think I thought it was a pretty generic start. I don't remember anything about this start to the game I'm on now so maybe that's changed.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:27
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FuturePastNow posted:The only circumstance where I wouldn't make a new account after 10 years away is if you'd get the cool legacy tattoo I returned after 10 years too but I didn't make a new account, just a new character. Did I miss out on anything?
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Jan 21, 2024 20:36
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Mr. Neutron posted:I returned after 10 years too but I didn't make a new account, just a new character. Did I miss out on anything? Nah, if you're not trying to take advantage of the free trial then a new character and new account will be the same.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:40
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Nitrousoxide posted:I don't remember very well, but I think I thought it was a pretty generic start. I don't remember anything about this start to the game I'm on now so maybe that's changed. Depending what your issues were some things are going to be VERY different. ARR-era FF14 was very grindy (compared to modern, less grindy than, say, FF11 or Everquest) and a lot of it's been streamlined in that respect over multiple expansions (I think Shadowbringers --> Endwalker is the first time they haven't changed something fundamental to the battle system). Story-wise though you may run into the same issues. The pacing in ARR's MSQ is very... let's say deliberate and that can chafe people trying to "get to the good stuff" or who are coming into it specifically for things they've heard about at current endgame and trying to catch up. Later expansions tend to at least have a constant direction the plot is pushing you in; early ARR meanders a lot because it's trying to establish the setting of the whole continent. Makes it easy to feel aimless. Anyway, have fun exploring and I hope you enjoy the ride.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:50
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Nitrousoxide posted:I don't remember very well, but I think I thought it was a pretty generic start. I don't remember anything about this start to the game I'm on now so maybe that's changed. The start isn't much different that before, but they did cull some quests across 1-50 several years ago so at least it'll be... faster?
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Jan 21, 2024 20:50
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Bruceski posted:Depending what your issues were some things are going to be VERY different. ARR-era FF14 was very grindy (compared to modern, less grindy than, say, FF11 or Everquest) and a lot of it's been streamlined in that respect over multiple expansions (I think Shadowbringers --> Endwalker is the first time they haven't changed something fundamental to the battle system). Story-wise though you may run into the same issues. The pacing in ARR's MSQ is very... let's say deliberate and that can chafe people trying to "get to the good stuff" or who are coming into it specifically for things they've heard about at current endgame and trying to catch up. Later expansions tend to at least have a constant direction the plot is pushing you in; early ARR meanders a lot because it's trying to establish the setting of the whole continent. Makes it easy to feel aimless. I don't mind it taking a while to level up. I honestly rarely play any MMO's more than a few hours past when I hit the level cap. I've never found raids or end-game treadmill running fun.
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Jan 21, 2024 20:58
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Nitrousoxide posted:I don't mind it taking a while to level up. I honestly rarely play any MMO's more than a few hours past when I hit the level cap. I've never found raids or end-game treadmill running fun. The MSQ taken as a whole through Endwalker is an incredible ride, complete with some of the best Final Fantasy stories in the entire series. It is honestly the main reason the game is as huge as it is. Just recognize it's gonna start slow, and it'll take a while to pick up steam.
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Jan 21, 2024 21:56
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also do note that level cap and story progression aren't 100% tightly linked. I was 90 and relatively geared before i started the last expansion, due to XP being so easy to get
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Jan 21, 2024 22:42
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Nitrousoxide posted:I don't mind it taking a while to level up. I honestly rarely play any MMO's more than a few hours past when I hit the level cap. I've never found raids or end-game treadmill running fun. The level sync system also helps you fill parties through the Duty Finder so that content isn't abandoned, another difference from my WoW experience. You don't have to struggle to get a party together or just go back after you outlevel something.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:01
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It looks like you can switch class/job anytime you want? If I'm reading this right? You just have to do a few quests for the guild or whatever to get familiar with its mechanics? That sounds appealing since I also never had a burning desire to replay through content to get another class as an alt.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:38
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Nitrousoxide posted:It looks like you can switch class/job anytime you want? If I'm reading this right? You just have to do a few quests for the guild or whatever to get familiar with its mechanics? Correct. You can do everything on a single character, including maxing out every single job/class, if you want.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:41
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Nitrousoxide posted:It looks like you can switch class/job anytime you want? If I'm reading this right? You just have to do a few quests for the guild or whatever to get familiar with its mechanics? Yep! Your active class/job is determined by what main hand equipment you have on. To make life easier you can create gear sets that automatically equip all of the equipment saved to that gear set when you activate it, which will switch your job, equipment, and hotbars on command. FFXIV really incentivizes playing what you want when you feel like it.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:44
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Nitrousoxide posted:It looks like you can switch class/job anytime you want? If I'm reading this right? You just have to do a few quests for the guild or whatever to get familiar with its mechanics? Jonny 290 posted:also do note that level cap and story progression aren't 100% tightly linked. I was 90 and relatively geared before i started the last expansion, due to XP being so easy to get yeah MSQ alone gives enough exp to easily level 2-3 jobs, so feel free to branch out
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Jan 21, 2024 23:54
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It sounds like you're planning this anyway, but to emphasize: do NOT solely do the MSQ. Reason being that while the story is cool and good, the actual gameplay is pretty basic and repetitive. If you exclusively do MSQ quests, you'll probably burn out. Take your time, do the side-content, level some other classes, discover the misery of Big Fishing. 14 is a journey, not a destination.
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Jan 21, 2024 23:58
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The only thing your starting job matters for is about the first 10-15 levels of content, because you'll get that zone's starter quest and only have access to that zone's jobs. As for which job you should start with... Hey, this sounds like an excuse for me to link one of the charts I made! 
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Jan 22, 2024 00:17
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Started out with a lancer since I built a whole team around that class in FFT back in the day. The game plays really well with a controller. I'm playing on my steamdeck casting to my TV and then using a PS5 controller. It did take me like a half hour to figure out the setting to switch to controller UI was in character settings and not system settings under controller.
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Jan 22, 2024 00:34
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Nitrousoxide posted:It did take me like a half hour to figure out the setting to switch to controller UI was in character settings and not system settings under controller. This game's settings are bizarrely opaque. There are a lot of things you can tweak and customize, but they're buried in a dozen different menus. For any newbie: sometime you're bored I suggest looking through all the settings and see if there's any surprises you want to know about like turning effects off for people outside your party.
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Jan 22, 2024 00:53
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Nitrousoxide posted:Started out with a lancer since I built a whole team around that class in FFT back in the day. Bruceski posted:This game's settings are bizarrely opaque. There are a lot of things you can tweak and customize, but they're buried in a dozen different menus.
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Jan 22, 2024 01:11
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That NIN description is gonna be outdated in ~6 months with Viper coming along, heh.
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Jan 22, 2024 04:51
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Roluth posted:That NIN description is gonna be outdated in ~6 months with Viper coming along, heh.
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Jan 22, 2024 08:02
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girl dick energy posted:The only thing your starting job matters for is about the first 10-15 levels of content, because you'll get that zone's starter quest and only have access to that zone's jobs. this sucks rear end, just play the job fantasy you want. basically every edge is filed offed so why care?
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Jan 22, 2024 10:07
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It's fine enough to get a completely fresh, or nearly completely fresh, newbie a starting point
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Jan 22, 2024 10:12
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Trash Ops posted:this sucks rear end, just play the job fantasy you want. basically every edge is filed offed so why care? The chart is a tool for helping with choice paralysis, not an OSHA law.
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Jan 22, 2024 12:45
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To chime in - last time I played was around 6 years ago. My memory of the story was non-existent, and rather than try to pick up on (what was when I played last) a maxed out char, I just started a new character. My Comparisons between Now and When I Played Last: - leveling feels a LOT faster - particularly at the beginning of the game. Just rushing MSQ & Job Quests, you can get to 30 in maybe 3 hours? (this is without Road to 70, or whatever that buff is - does that still exist?) - combat feels a lot easier. I can recall dying occasionally during some MSQ Duty I tried being a few levels too low. But now? I'm not sure I have ever even been in any real danger of dying. My attacks hit harder, and things die quickly. - related to the above: when just walking from place to place, enemies seem a lot more docile than I recall - like their enemy detection/aggression has been decreased. I can definitely remember sections of the MSQ where just walking to the rendezvous meant aggroing 3-4 annoying enemies you had to kill so you could activate the widget. This time, have only seen that happen for that one ARC quest where you look for that poacher in the Qirin camp. - the addition of NPCs for MSQ dungeons is my new favorite thing. The only one I was unable to get past using NPCs was Ifrit, on a Summoner. You can't tell the NPCs to specifically target anything, so when the Nail or whatever comes out, I couldn't ever DPS it down fast enough by myself. I did fine against Ifrit on every other Job I have tried so far (CNJ, MAR and ARC). I was even testing to see how large of a pull they can handle (since you are handling the pulls yourself), and you can practically wall pull most places and do just fine with NPCs. But no more waiting in the queue to progress MSQ? Sign me up! 5/5 stars. - your biggest annoyance early game will consist of one thing: getting from A to B. SO. MUCH. WALKING. Auto-run and Sprint are your friends here. Teleports will be expensive early game, compared to the size of your gil. However, as soon as your gil hits mid 4-digits (4k-6k), you can start using teleports as freely as you like - your wallet will be able to keep up from that point on. And when you get to 30 drop everything and unlock your mount. - You will save yourself a lot of time if - every time you reach a new city, you run around and unlock ALL the Aethernet Shards. Early MSQ can be fetch/deliver this message quest HELL, and spending 5 minutes running around unlocking all the fast travels before you do anything else will save you a lot of time. You also automatically get fast travel to any of the city's exits by unlocking all the Shards, so, prioritize it, since early MSQ be like "go west of the city and kill 3 X". - rotations in general feel....less complicated than I recall. I played WHM back in the day, and was hesitant to start over as a Healer since the endgame rotation was complex, but I finally did make an ARC and even that felt easier. THM/BLM feels easier than I recall as well. Not sure if things have been simplified or my memory is just fuzzy. - early MSQ definitely feels like "Babby's First RPG" in places. More than one quest of "take this thing to 3 people within 10 yards of here, then come back", tho I have to say - the New Player Experience feels.....smoother somehow? Maybe it's the differences in combat, I dunno. Anyway, there's my 2 bits. I am having a lot of fun. I am hoping I don't get sucked in deep like last time, but if I'm being honest - I'm not hoping that hard. 
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Jan 22, 2024 14:42
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HaB posted:To chime in - last time I played was around 6 years ago. My memory of the story was non-existent, and rather than try to pick up on (what was when I played last) a maxed out char, I just started a new character. This is certainly true. They dump experience on you these days. If you only play one job you’re going to be vastly overleveled 100% of the time. HaB posted:- combat feels a lot easier. I can recall dying occasionally during some MSQ Duty I tried being a few levels too low. But now? I'm not sure I have ever even been in any real danger of dying. My attacks hit harder, and things die quickly. This is, in part, due to numbers adjustments and things over the years. Because they had to squish some stats due to overinflation, early game DPS went way up. HaB posted:- related to the above: when just walking from place to place, enemies seem a lot more docile than I recall - like their enemy detection/aggression has been decreased. I can definitely remember sections of the MSQ where just walking to the rendezvous meant aggroing 3-4 annoying enemies you had to kill so you could activate the widget. This time, have only seen that happen for that one ARC quest where you look for that poacher in the Qirin camp. I’m not sure if there was an active change here. This could be in part due to overleveling meaning you’ve gone past a lot of mobs’ aggro level window. HaB posted:- the addition of NPCs for MSQ dungeons is my new favorite thing. The only one I was unable to get past using NPCs was Ifrit, on a Summoner. You can't tell the NPCs to specifically target anything, so when the Nail or whatever comes out, I couldn't ever DPS it down fast enough by myself. I did fine against Ifrit on every other Job I have tried so far (CNJ, MAR and ARC). I was even testing to see how large of a pull they can handle (since you are handling the pulls yourself), and you can practically wall pull most places and do just fine with NPCs. But no more waiting in the queue to progress MSQ? Sign me up! 5/5 stars. Yeah the NPC addons to dungeons and fights is fantastic. HaB posted:- your biggest annoyance early game will consist of one thing: getting from A to B. SO. MUCH. WALKING. Auto-run and Sprint are your friends here. Teleports will be expensive early game, compared to the size of your gil. However, as soon as your gil hits mid 4-digits (4k-6k), you can start using teleports as freely as you like - your wallet will be able to keep up from that point on. And when you get to 30 drop everything and unlock your mount. Good tips here. HaB posted:- rotations in general feel....less complicated than I recall. I played WHM back in the day, and was hesitant to start over as a Healer since the endgame rotation was complex, but I finally did make an ARC and even that felt easier. THM/BLM feels easier than I recall as well. Not sure if things have been simplified or my memory is just fuzzy. This is a result of job retooling through the expacs. Healers basically have only a few DPS buttons these days. There’s not near as much of a rotation or anything. You get a lot more buttons post-50 now. HaB posted:- early MSQ definitely feels like "Babby's First RPG" in places. More than one quest of "take this thing to 3 people within 10 yards of here, then come back", tho I have to say - the New Player Experience feels.....smoother somehow? Maybe it's the differences in combat, I dunno. You’re right that the game is very hand holding at the beginning. For a very large part of the userbase, this is their first MMO. Glad you’re having a good time back. Thanks for the post!
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Jan 22, 2024 15:07
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HaB posted:My Comparisons between Now and When I Played Last: To answer a couple of your questions: - Road to 80 is still a thing and will further accelerate your xp, but only if you make your character on a preferred world. It's honestly not a very big deal, but nice if you want to switch between more jobs as you level. - Difficulty depends. ARR is certainly easier, mostly due to the xp increase making players higher level than the content on average. ARR and HW have also had the more significant dungeon and trial revamps in order to support AI friends. StB and beyond aren't much different, although the old max level content gets outscaled harder than it used to since most people will be synced down to it. I don't believe mobs have different aggro behavior; you just tend to be higher level and potentially flying. - Job rotations at lower levels are generally easier. Revamps have seen the removal of various low level skills, cross class skills, the extra healer dots, etc. Rotations at max level is the most complex it's ever been. I'd argue even for healers who do have fewer dps buttons but get a lot of misc defensive cooldowns to optimize instead (healers are easier than ever when outside extreme, savage and ultimate as a result). BLMs are generally an exception: they have never been the subject of a revamp and do their historic rotations in each expansion still. You shouldn't be seeing much of a difference apart from some niche buttons like apocatastasis and cross class skills being gone.
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Jan 22, 2024 16:44
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Xerophyte posted:To answer a couple of your questions: Ah okay. I looked for preferred world across a coupla data centers but never saw one. That does raise another question, tho: so when people are talking about leveling two jobs - what are they doing? Do you swap to the lower leveled one until it passes the other, then switch again? quote:- Difficulty depends. ARR is certainly easier, mostly due to the xp increase making players higher level than the content on average. ARR and HW have also had the more significant dungeon and trial revamps in order to support AI friends. StB and beyond aren't much different, although the old max level content gets outscaled harder than it used to since most people will be synced down to it. I don't believe mobs have different aggro behavior; you just tend to be higher level and potentially flying. Yeah I hadn't thought about the level thing. That's likely it, since I have been consistently overleveled for MSQ since lvl 20, I'd guess. So things probably aren't aggroing, since i'm overleveled for the area. quote:- Job rotations at lower levels are generally easier. Revamps have seen the removal of various low level skills, cross class skills, the extra healer dots, etc. Rotations at max level is the most complex it's ever been. I'd argue even for healers who do have fewer dps buttons but get a lot of misc defensive cooldowns to optimize instead (healers are easier than ever when outside extreme, savage and ultimate as a result). BLMs are generally an exception: they have never been the subject of a revamp and do their historic rotations in each expansion still. You shouldn't be seeing much of a difference apart from some niche buttons like apocatastasis and cross class skills being gone. Sorry, I should have mentioned. I have only played BLM up to around 45 or so? So not familiar with the endgame rotation at all. Not sure why it feels easier - maybe I just don't remember it because stooooooooooner. I had only maxed WHM.
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Jan 22, 2024 18:02
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HaB posted:That does raise another question, tho: so when people are talking about leveling two jobs - what are they doing? Do you swap to the lower leveled one until it passes the other, then switch again? There is an EXP bonus for jobs below your highest leveled job, but even still switching so constantly just sounds kind of annoying. Personally, when I level jobs I try to get them to 50/60/70/you get it before swapping to another one. However, this is founded on the assumption that you have a "main" job you're trying to level first that's probably a much higher level than everything else. I've also had every job at max for a long time now so I'm not really an expert on this.
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Jan 22, 2024 18:07
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HaB posted:Ah okay. I looked for preferred world across a coupla data centers but never saw one. quote:Yeah I hadn't thought about the level thing. That's likely it, since I have been consistently overleveled for MSQ since lvl 20, I'd guess. So things probably aren't aggroing, since i'm overleveled for the area. quote:Sorry, I should have mentioned. I have only played BLM up to around 45 or so? So not familiar with the endgame rotation at all. Not sure why it feels easier - maybe I just don't remember it because stooooooooooner.
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Jan 22, 2024 18:20
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Oh, wait, am I supposed to be switching classes as I outlevel the quests in an area to stay in the range appropriate for it?
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Jan 22, 2024 18:28
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I leveled an alt through ARR a couple years ago and I just switched jobs on a whim. Catching up a new one only takes a couple of hours. But, that was me replaying the game at a very leisurely pace over months. When I play through a new expansion I usually do BLM for overworld stuff because I like turretcasting. I spend excess quest xp and maybe some roulettes on keeping my current main healer and tank jobs a level or two behind the BLM and ready to do the dungeons as they unlock. The way the armory xp bonus works for alt jobs <L80 is you get double xp from all sources -- which is rare, most of the assorted other xp bonuses you can get in the game are just for on-kill xp which is far weaker -- on anything lower level than your highest job. That means that if you want to ~optimize~ and not waste any bonus then you want to avoid ever having two jobs at your highest level. E.g. if your highest job is L36 then switch away from any alt jobs after they hit L35. Those are very unimportant brainworms to obey, especially at lower levels, but you can do so if it sparks joy. You certainly don't have to level multiple jobs first time through, but personally I enjoy the variety and because of how xp works it is more efficient than sticking with a single one. I also think it's nice to be able to do dungeons, trials and other things with queues on jobs that aren't DPS. Mileage may vary. E: Nitrousoxide posted:Oh, wait, am I supposed to be switching classes as I outlevel the quests in an area to stay in the range appropriate for it? The game doesn't really have an opinion. The main quest gives enough XP that you absolutely can level 2-3 jobs while playing through it if you would like to. This may or may not appeal to you. I usually suggest it for variety and possibly also efficiency-related brainworms, but it's not a mandate and if you don't want to do it then you're not going to find yourself suddenly regretful a year down the line or anything. Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 18:28
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Nitrousoxide posted:Oh, wait, am I supposed to be switching classes as I outlevel the quests in an area to stay in the range appropriate for it? Short answer: no, there is no expectation of this
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Jan 22, 2024 18:33
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Also this is not an mmo where you must/should do all quests in an area. There's a bit about quest markers in the OP I think, but msq has "flames" that surround the quest icon, "blue" quests with a small + unlock a new game feature/area, and quests without either of these, or "yellow" quests are entirely optional, and only fill in the lore for the area, and should be skipped unless you want to come back and clear your maps of the icons.
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Jan 22, 2024 18:36
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