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I don't think Persona 5's, like, art design and the actual engine that makes their cutscenes work are dynamic enough to deliver that kind of slapstick and make it work. it's all too stilted
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Jan 22, 2024 19:10
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Endorph posted:its also kind of a matter of timing. most scenes like that happen in goofy situations but the p5 scene happens in a high stakes situation. like in one piece, nami beats luffy up when he does something stupid in a comedy situation, she doesnt beat him up after he risks his life to save her from arlong. I've seen shows where you get someone dramatically showing up after seemingly dying and then a character who was sad/upset bashes them over the head for worrying them, but it's absolutely something more cartoony and the anticlimax is kind of the point of the joke. (And TBH I don't really like those jokes in the first place but y'know.) Persona, Morgana aside, doesn't have that level of boingsplat so it feels weird. Like I genuinely think you need the kind of animation where a character gets a giant cartoon lump on their head to make it 'work.' I do think Persona thinks it is that level of animation but PS2 graphics certainly couldn't pull it off and P5 only makes it work with Morgana. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 22, 2024 19:15
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Just add in really goofy sound effects like it's Three Stooges
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Jan 22, 2024 19:19
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key to the sacrifice fake out scene is that the reason that the other characters are mad is that the one who almost died was doing something stupid or reckless or deliberately sacrificial explicitly against the others' wishes which they then happened to miraculously survive, giving them some measure of justification in being mad about it in the ryuji one the party is literally cheering him on while he does it so he is not only not explicitly sacrificing himself, he is actually being spurred on by the party telling him to do it and the fact that he seemingly dies comes as a major surprise to everyone, so it wouldn't even work properly if they hadn't dialed the expected emotional shoulder punch up to the level of attempted murder
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Jan 22, 2024 19:22
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Persona's done that kind of cartoony slapstick before but it was things like Hanako destroying Yosuke's bike by just sitting on it. Or Chie kicking Yosuke in the nuts for breaking her DVD. Which is still, y'know, not stuff that's aged great. But I guess it's not the first time.
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Jan 22, 2024 19:48
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I’m excited for the Persona 3 remake coming out soon. Apparently it’s trash because no FeMC, but honestly I never played 3 so I’m fortunate enough to have no idea what I’m missing. I’m playing Strikers right now and it’s pretty fun. It makes me wish we had gotten Haru much earlier in the main game because she’s the best
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Jan 22, 2024 19:52
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ApplesandOranges posted:Persona's done that kind of cartoony slapstick before but it was things like Hanako destroying Yosuke's bike by just sitting on it. Or Chie kicking Yosuke in the nuts for breaking her DVD. There was some slapstick comedy in the older pre-3 games and 3 has the infamous offscreen 'execution' so, yeah, it isn't really new. I think that scene hits different just because Ryuji spends so much of the game being poo poo on that it's frustrating he doesn't get a happy moment. Note: That other comedy is also lovely but at least it's generic boring lovely instead of 'what the hell' lovely.
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Jan 22, 2024 19:53
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in conclusion if you want to play a game about the power of friendship just stick to kingdom hearts
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Jan 22, 2024 19:53
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Dramatika posted:I’m excited for the Persona 3 remake coming out soon. Apparently it’s trash because no FeMC, but honestly I never played 3 so I’m fortunate enough to have no idea what I’m missing. as far as the original version of persona 3 goes, nothing people are mad mainly because there were two different rereleases of the game which both had different bonus content, and no version that combined them. people thought that the remake was going to, but lmao, no, it has neither. DLC or some kind of Golden/Royal version seems inevitable if it does well, though.
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Jan 22, 2024 19:56
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The series has elements of both goofiness and relatively serious drama/characterization, and usually they try to avoid mixing up the two. See how the Shujin staff is noticeably less excentric than the previous schools', because making them act too silly would look dark juxtaposed with their enabling of Kamoshida. The "let's beat up Ryuji" scene is bad because what precedes it is the culmination of his character arc and undermining it for some gag is lame and hypocritical (especially with his history of physical abuse). If it had happened earlier in a lower stakes situation I don't think people would object so strongly.cock hero flux posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maL1PDVsGpo lol
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Jan 22, 2024 20:05
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xenoblade 2 would have made the scene work.
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Jan 22, 2024 20:21
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Tired Moritz posted:xenoblade 2 would have made the scene work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMBRC1dHALY
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Jan 22, 2024 20:30
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Tired Moritz posted:xenoblade 2 would have made the scene work. xeno 2 is sort of a good example because zeke is the comic relief guy but when hes meant to be having serious character moments they just give him serious character moments
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Jan 22, 2024 20:52
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cock hero flux posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maL1PDVsGpo 
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Jan 22, 2024 21:01
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Dramatika posted:I’m excited for the Persona 3 remake coming out soon. Apparently it’s trash because no FeMC, but honestly I never played 3 so I’m fortunate enough to have no idea what I’m missing. It's going to be good. People thinking the game is somehow unplayable because it lacks the non canon femc are just weirdos.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:13
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persona threeloaded is somehow unplayable because it lacks the non-canon female protagonistEndorph posted:xeno 2 is sort of a good example because zeke is the comic relief guy but when hes meant to be having serious character moments they just give him serious character moments Which is doubly weird, because the game does let Ryuji have serious moments, even if most of them are in his confidant or the occasional phone call with Joker. It would have been such a sweet and heartfelt moment if the characters had just talked through it! And it's not that funny of a slapstick scene even if you ignore all the things that make it outright terrible!
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Jan 22, 2024 21:27
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Nobody ever said it was "unplayable," whatever that means in this context. I'm the guy who's complaining about it and I don't think it's unplayable (that'd be really weird considering I plan to play Reload, not to mention that I've been struggling through a replay of FES for like a year), I just think it's pointless. Also, it's strange to defer to canon here, because The Answer's not in it either.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:28
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Arist posted:Nobody ever said it was "unplayable," whatever that means in this context. I'm the guy who's complaining about it and I don't think it's unplayable (that'd be really weird considering I plan to play Reload, not to mention that I've been struggling through a replay of FES for like a year), I just think it's pointless. That is because the Answer is dumb and bad.  I don't even inherently mind the concept of "here are how the SEES deal with the events of the ending" but the plot it builds up to is so duuuuumb and I think they're well aware of that which is why it basically hasn't been seen since the PS2.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:31
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Which is doubly weird, because the game does let Ryuji have serious moments, even if most of them are in his confidant or the occasional phone call with Joker. It would have been such a sweet and heartfelt moment if the characters had just talked through it! And it's not that funny of a slapstick scene even if you ignore all the things that make it outright terrible! Yeah, that scene is mostly a bummer IMO because of what it isn't. It would have been really nice to have a scene where everyone is just earnestly happy and relieved at Ryuji surviving.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:32
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I mean, I agree The Answer is bad, but it's also relatively important and gets referenced in both 4 and the Arena games. If they decided to just retcon it away and go "Aigis isn't the Fool arcana anymore, Erebus isn't a thing, deal with it" I'd be completely fine with that, but they've kind of built on it in a way that makes that somewhat challenging. (Honestly, it would be easiest to just de-canonize Arena too for the Liz and Aigis references and honestly the only plot point in either game I would actually miss would be Himiko transforming into attack mode, which is dumb in a way I think is great. Besides that though, I don't like the Shadow Operatives thing so no big loss there. But also also, I don't actually care about "canon" so eh)
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Jan 22, 2024 21:42
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I mean, it's not like Atlus has done anything with those weird plot threads in the 10+ years since Ultimax anyway, might as well cut bait on it.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:48
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Then we'd lose that scene in Arena where Kanji is confronted by Shadow Kanji, one shots him and goes "I got over that stuff a year ago"
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Jan 22, 2024 21:49
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Arist posted:Nobody ever said it was "unplayable," whatever that means in this context. I'm the guy who's complaining about it and I don't think it's unplayable (that'd be really weird considering I plan to play Reload, not to mention that I've been struggling through a replay of FES for like a year), I just think it's pointless. I was not subtweeting you or anything..I assumed they were referring to deranged twitter takes which I have seen saying basically that.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:51
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fair enough
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Jan 22, 2024 21:52
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Arist posted:I mean, I agree The Answer is bad, but it's also relatively important and gets referenced in both 4 and the Arena games. If they decided to just retcon it away and go "Aigis isn't the Fool arcana anymore, Erebus isn't a thing, deal with it" I'd be completely fine with that, but they've kind of built on it in a way that makes that somewhat challenging. Honestly I think they've basically already done it. It got references in the fighting game and an offhand one in P4 but hasn't really come up since, including them resisting the urge to pull the 'undo the ending' switch every time they've been given a chance. I think by this point though they've settled on "this is the ending, nobody really wants the ending to change.' Which is for the best because pretty much every remake I can think of that changed the ending to be 'happier' usually has sucked for it. Looking at you Lufia 2 remake, you horrible pile of poo poo. Maybe FF7R will change my mind. .. god, there are so many RPG remakes.
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Jan 22, 2024 21:55
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Junpei posted:https://www.powerpyx.com/persona-3-reload-trophy-list-revealed/ Looks like Monad is now a bonus area you can reach from other floors rather then being a post-gameish area.
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Jan 22, 2024 22:02
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The Answer is pretty good and I've never really understood why people act like its story was particularly all that bad, beyond not understanding what was up with Yukari. It's a real shame too because the actual bad part about The Answer is pretty much 100% gameplay, which could easily be fixed by a remake.
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Jan 22, 2024 22:02
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Saagonsa posted:The Answer is pretty good and I've never really understood why people act like its story was particularly all that bad, beyond not understanding what was up with Yukari. This.
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Jan 22, 2024 22:07
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Saagonsa posted:The Answer is pretty good and I've never really understood why people act like its story was particularly all that bad, beyond not understanding what was up with Yukari. The entire thing about the protagonist's soul becomes a magic barrier is super dumb and devalues the original ending, which is just "the protagonist defeated death by accepting death without fear and was able to overcome it because of that" rather than some nonsense about his soul being held hostage which both makes his ending way loving shittier and more depressing and leaves it open for a "lol Elizabeth saves him and maybe brings him back to life too." Like honestly it sours the ending so much because it goes from "The protagonist died, accepting that it was a truth all humanity would come to, surrounded by those he loved and who loved him" and makes it "The protagonist died and now is in Hell forever."
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Jan 22, 2024 22:08
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i never really got that vibe at all. the protagonist's soul sealing the bad guy is bascially what already happens in p3, they mention it. and it doesnt undo his sacrifice because he still accepted death without fear cause he was dying to save other people. and they never brought him back in any sequel material so idk why youd think 'it sours it'
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Jan 22, 2024 22:10
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Oh right we've already had this exact convo before lol. I'll just repeat that I never got the impression that freeing the MC from being the seal brings him back to life, but instead would allow him to finally pass on. Which I think is actually a very nice idea.
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Jan 22, 2024 22:11
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Endorph posted:i never really got that vibe at all. the protagonist's soul sealing the bad guy is bascially what already happens in p3, they mention it. and it doesnt undo his sacrifice because he still accepted death without fear cause he was dying to save other people. and they never brought him back in any sequel material so idk why youd think 'it sours it' They don't mention it at all. Like they actually mention the opposite, that 'he came to the truth you all will, just a little sooner' and nobody actually knows the protagonist is dying (except maybe Aigis, until the Answer it's a bit ambiguous) until he's already dead so they wouldn't have any reason to mention his soul sealing Nyx. He spends 999 HP to enact the Grand Seal but that's again his life points, not his soul. And it devalues it because it goes from "he accepts and understands death and passes peacefully and without fear" to "His soul is shackled to be constantly attacked and ravaged by monsters for seemingly eternity/until it destroyed/until Elizabeth deus ex machinas him out,"
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Jan 22, 2024 22:14
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He sealed it, but people with death drive will keep reaching out to try and break the seal. It's a part of the whole "no human problem can be truly solved forever, it is a constant strife towards enlightenment" thing that many of these works end up doing for their endings. The Answer doesn't really do much to change the ending other than show directly why humanity must be vigilant and not fall into despair.
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Jan 22, 2024 23:09
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Willo567 posted:in conclusion if you want to play a game about the power of friendship just stick to kingdom hearts The real world also runs on the Power of Friendship, we just call it Networking.
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Jan 23, 2024 03:58
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I'm looking at the wiki, and it says this wacky poo poo about Nyx (I put spoiler tags just to be on the safe side since other people are using them when discussing this):quote:The Persona 3 Club Book explains that Nyx is a celestial-body sized alien called a Planet Eater. Nyx crashed into prehistoric Earth where her body and psyche were separated, with her body becoming the Moon and her psyche staying on Earth. Her "wave-like psyche" existed in contradiction to the psyche of early lifeforms on Earth, so life as a whole evolved to seal Nyx within the Collective Unconscious as their Shadows. The Fall is when of both Nyx parts which would, if rejoined, rip the Shadows out of the living creatures on Earth while simultaneously destroying Earth. This process is kicked underway by the events of Persona 3. Is this true? I thought it *was* a manifestation of collective thought, but I also haven't finished Persona 3 since 2008 so I could easily be misremembering things.
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Jan 23, 2024 04:08
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the alien thing is vaguely implied a couple of times with mitsuru's dad's video logs but never directly stated and all thats really said is some stuff about her 'coming down'. seems like a plotpoint that got sorta excised but was still technically the explanation
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Jan 23, 2024 04:11
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It's true. It's in the Persona 3 Club Book, which you can pretty easily find translations of. It's like the only part of that fanbook that's at all notable so it's pretty high in the search results. It's very stupid. e: Nyx is not a manifestation of collective will, but Erebus is. Feels overcomplicated, imo Arist fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jan 23, 2024 |
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Jan 23, 2024 04:13
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Nyx is JENOVA, got it.
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Jan 23, 2024 04:19
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Ytlaya posted:Is this true? I thought it *was* a manifestation of collective thought, but I also haven't finished Persona 3 since 2008 so I could easily be misremembering things. going by the way the game itself actually treats and talks about nyx: nyx is not a manifestation of collective thought but is literally the embodiment of death as a force of a nature which chose to remain unformed and dormant, with erebus being the manifestation of humanity's collective desire to die that is calling on it to awaken and end the world going by the fanbook: space alien or, charitably, lovecraft monster. none of this has ever been referenced anywhere else and arguably contradicts series canon established in actual games so should probably be ignored as a misguided attempt to overexplain this whole thing
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Jan 23, 2024 04:27
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Arist posted:It's very stupid. It's one of the reasons I find P3's worldbuilding to be the worst of the Personas, even though thematically it's at least interesting re: death. It's a hat on a hat on a hat on a hat. As if the subject matter of mankind vs mortality wasn't somehow enough dramatic heft.
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Jan 23, 2024 04:36
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