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Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


yo gradenko, what did you use to do these really clean arrows? I'm thinking of doing something similar to make it easier to see what is going on in the LP

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Tekopo posted:

yo gradenko, what did you use to do these really clean arrows? I'm thinking of doing something similar to make it easier to see what is going on in the LP

That's ShareX. Available on Steam for convenience, but also on their own website as a stand alone

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

That's ShareX. Available on Steam for convenience, but also on their own website as a stand alone

I've been using this for about 10-15 minutes and it's awesome.

KirbyKhan
Mar 20, 2009



Soiled Meat
Dominions 6 released on Steam and I'm watching so many streams of people playing this inscrutable game. I've loved it since I spent like $80 on Dominions 3 back 1000 years ago.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
this is sort of a historical context question but: how common was it for aircraft to be sent in to attack anti-aircraft defenses [for the purposes of suppressing them so that they don't shoot at other aircraft]?

I can recall instances from WWII in the Pacific where fighters would go in to strafe enemy air defenses, so that the [dive] bombers could go in with less fire coming their way,
and tekopo's LP of the invasion of Crete opens with Me-109s strafing Allied AA before the paradrops come in

... but I am asking in the strategy wargames thread because Panzer General and its derivatives tend to emphasize the idea that air defense units are actually very effective at preventing aircraft from carrying out strikes, and you cannot/should not use aircraft to try and attack anti-aircraft guns

now, this makes sense from a rock-papers-scissors relationship between unit types, but now I'm wondering how """realistic""" it is

FrancisFukyomama
Feb 4, 2019

huh apparently the last panzer general was an Xbox only card based puzzle game

how did that IP end up there

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

KirbyKhan posted:

Dominions 6 released on Steam and I'm watching so many streams of people playing this inscrutable game. I've loved it since I spent like $80 on Dominions 3 back 1000 years ago.

The best mod is updated for Dominions 6, too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPhXFULW3iQ

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


gradenko_2000 posted:

this is sort of a historical context question but: how common was it for aircraft to be sent in to attack anti-aircraft defenses [for the purposes of suppressing them so that they don't shoot at other aircraft]?

I can recall instances from WWII in the Pacific where fighters would go in to strafe enemy air defenses, so that the [dive] bombers could go in with less fire coming their way,
and tekopo's LP of the invasion of Crete opens with Me-109s strafing Allied AA before the paradrops come in

... but I am asking in the strategy wargames thread because Panzer General and its derivatives tend to emphasize the idea that air defense units are actually very effective at preventing aircraft from carrying out strikes, and you cannot/should not use aircraft to try and attack anti-aircraft guns

now, this makes sense from a rock-papers-scissors relationship between unit types, but now I'm wondering how """realistic""" it is
I can attest that, at least in Crete, the strafing of the AAs was an historical event and not something I did to game the system, at least according to Antony Beevor. I think Crete is unusual tho in that there was no other way to bombard the guns from the German side, so it was either suppress the guns using Air power or just let the JU 52s be fish in a barrel, so I think Crete is an exception and not the rule.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

gradenko_2000 posted:

this is sort of a historical context question but: how common was it for aircraft to be sent in to attack anti-aircraft defenses [for the purposes of suppressing them so that they don't shoot at other aircraft]?

Situational.

In the Combined Bomber Offensive, the campaign against ports and railways in Italy, the bombing of coastal fortifications and infrastructure in anticipation of the landings in France, and later during tactical air support and interdiction bombing in Northwest Europe, flak and searchlight suppression mission would often accompany major raids. These flights also might be made up of dedicated squadrons, flying Mosquitos in the case of the night bombing offensive, but it was also considered risky and a cause of major casualties, particularly when fighter bombers with water cooled inline engines were pressed into the role.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 17:19 on Jan 23, 2024

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

One of the B-26 squadrons flying flak suppression in the MTO might be familiar to posters ITT 24 Squadron, SAAF, including a particular aircraft loss.




Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Tekopo posted:

I can attest that, at least in Crete, the strafing of the AAs was an historical event and not something I did to game the system, at least according to Antony Beevor. I think Crete is unusual tho in that there was no other way to bombard the guns from the German side, so it was either suppress the guns using Air power or just let the JU 52s be fish in a barrel, so I think Crete is an exception and not the rule.
want to make it clear I didn't think you were calling me out or anything

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.
I bought Old World.

There's a lot of little decisions every turn which is great, but I'm at like turn 80 and I'm just building aimlessly. I feel like with this game either everyone is breathing down my neck, or everyone is super chill and very far away and I'm just building up my cities playing solitaire unless I feel like getting my poo poo pushed in.

skooma512 has issued a correction as of 01:26 on Jan 24, 2024

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Game doesn’t shine until you play on high enough difficulty level that quantity of orders is a serious constraint. Then it is excellent.

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.
Yeah right now I have orders left every turn because I just don't have that much for units to do.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Start a new game on higher difficulty. It’ll be more fun.

Megamissen
Jul 19, 2022

any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

skooma512 posted:

I bought Old World.

There's a lot of little decisions every turn which is great, but I'm at like turn 80 and I'm just building aimlessly. I feel like with this game either everyone is breathing down my neck, or everyone is super chill and very far away and I'm just building up my cities playing solitaire unless I feel like getting my poo poo pushed in.

one problem i have with old world is that the units feel really early 2000s in design and it hurts immersion for me

with how few factions there are giving all of them unique visual designs on all the basic units (and making them more sensical) would be nice

Virtual Russian
Sep 15, 2008

KirbyKhan posted:

Dominions 6 released on Steam and I'm watching so many streams of people playing this inscrutable game. I've loved it since I spent like $80 on Dominions 3 back 1000 years ago.

Dominions is so good, just the best. Every time I play I get destroyed, but I love every moment of it.

FrancisFukyomama
Feb 4, 2019

dominions is the only game that models the limitanei/comitatenses doctrine of the post third century crisis Roman military and its employed by snakemen Byzantines

Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Virtual Russian posted:

Dominions is so good, just the best. Every time I play I get destroyed, but I love every moment of it.

if I dont' want to pay $60 as entry free to the series with latest one which dominion should I pick up

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Simply travel back in time, have 5 gifted to you by a goon, and then become notorious enough that you become a playtester for 6. :v:

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

Typo posted:

if I dont' want to pay $60 as entry free to the series with latest one which dominion should I pick up

Probably 5, it goes on sale for $14 dollars. There's no real reason to get any of the earlier ones. Dom6 is making (relatively) big changes so it's probably going to be having balance changes and stuff for a while. I would play and learn dom5 for now and then move to dom6 when you want the new stuff, there's no hurry.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Yeah, jokes aside, the above is solid. You probably won't find much in the way of multiplayer, outside of rounding up some friends, but it's a good game.

The series is iterative, and there's really not much point in playing titles before the 5th, outside of novelty value of stuff like seeing how the universal supercombatant doctrine could be implemented in 3 (and as a consequences, absolutely was not allowed in any way, shape, or form in later titles).

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
A short summary of supercombatants from a conversation I had a few days ago:

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

StashAugustine posted:

Returning to AoE2 as an adult was a lot harder when you don't just cheat for all your resources

bro you gotta learn abotu resource management

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

one of my friends was like dude how are you so good at this game, and when i would take a look at his base he would have a total of 8 villagers

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE

AnimeIsTrash posted:

one of my friends was like dude how are you so good at this game, and when i would take a look at his base he would have a total of 8 villagers

the 25 population meta...

palindrome
Feb 3, 2020

I wish they had made more Rise of Nations games, I really liked that one. RoN 6 with DLC would probably be rad if it existed, and in a world where RTS plus resource management was at all popular.

I think people like MOBAs because controlling multiple units is too hard, and hell I kind of agree. Micromanaging a full village of SCVs or villagers, plus a couple of scouting forces, plus an army, is really tough and demands a lot of attention. Doubly so if it is not turn-based. Easier to just be one guy, I can see why that's popular.

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

my dad posted:

A short summary of supercombatants from a conversation I had a few days ago:



The F-35 is the burger supercombatant.

BearsBearsBears
Aug 4, 2022

palindrome posted:

I wish they had made more Rise of Nations games, I really liked that one. RoN 6 with DLC would probably be rad if it existed, and in a world where RTS plus resource management was at all popular.

I think people like MOBAs because controlling multiple units is too hard, and hell I kind of agree. Micromanaging a full village of SCVs or villagers, plus a couple of scouting forces, plus an army, is really tough and demands a lot of attention. Doubly so if it is not turn-based. Easier to just be one guy, I can see why that's popular.

Have you tried Rise of Legends? It's RoN but in a magical setting.

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

John Charity Spring posted:

the 25 population meta...

25 villagers creating the base for proletarian post imperial age struggle....

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022

palindrome posted:

I wish they had made more Rise of Nations games, I really liked that one. RoN 6 with DLC would probably be rad if it existed, and in a world where RTS plus resource management was at all popular.

I think people like MOBAs because controlling multiple units is too hard, and hell I kind of agree. Micromanaging a full village of SCVs or villagers, plus a couple of scouting forces, plus an army, is really tough and demands a lot of attention. Doubly so if it is not turn-based. Easier to just be one guy, I can see why that's popular.
imo strategy games died out because the entire idea of organizing at scale and producing things inherently being at least as important of a step as using whatever is produced makes no sense in general under modern consumerism thought, there is almost nothing to relate it to in most jobs

factorio makes sense to consumerism brain: only reason you'd need a factory is because you wanted to make a factory, only reason you'd want to make a factory is to make the factory and one person can infinitely increase their productivity at ever increasing scale

Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


I think a lot of it was just fatigue at the sheer number of RTS games that came out in the late 90s/early 2000s.

Everyone remembers games like Rise of Nations, Age of Mythology and Warcraft III, but there were also a bazillion other, shittier RTS games flooding the market at the same time, and I can remember getting sick of them really fast.

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

palindrome posted:

I think people like MOBAs because controlling multiple units is too hard, and hell I kind of agree. Micromanaging a full village of SCVs or villagers, plus a couple of scouting forces, plus an army, is really tough and demands a lot of attention. Doubly so if it is not turn-based. Easier to just be one guy, I can see why that's popular.

They're also way faster paced than most strategy game matches.

Imo strategy games died because they overcomplicated a bunch of things (adding hero units, skills, items, etc) and more importantly consoles became way more popular in the last 2 decades and there is no way you're playing brood war or something on one of those.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
An average game of StarCraft is over in significantly less time than an average game of dota or lol.

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022

AnimeIsTrash posted:

They're also way faster paced than most strategy game matches.

Imo strategy games died because they overcomplicated a bunch of things (adding hero units, skills, items, etc) and more importantly consoles became way more popular in the last 2 decades and there is no way you're playing brood war or something on one of those.


that wouldn't explain the huge shift from rts to kb/m moba around 2010ish hto
a bunch of the early streamers were sc/wc3 pros already n only moved because they couldn't make money anymore

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
AOE 2 actually has a pretty good controller layout. Shame you can't access it from a PC.

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

FirstnameLastname posted:

that wouldn't explain the huge shift from rts to kb/m moba around 2010ish hto
a bunch of the early streamers were sc/wc3 pros already n only moved because they couldn't make money anymore

its beucase you touch yoruself at night

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009

Orange Devil posted:

An average game of StarCraft is over in significantly less time than an average game of dota or lol.

Yeah, if anything I think it's that the popular strategy games could be over without a satisfying buildup. I'm not that great at managing games and mostly stick to single player but had a brief run of watching esports and Starcraft 2's scene when it was trying to get momentum a decade ago and it was weird how many games would just be over with the equivalent of a round one knockout. MOBAs effectively have a "no-rush" rule hard-coded in.

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.
My first time encountering SMAC was in 1999 or 2000 with the demo, I can't remember how I got it because we barely had dialup. I had no idea what was going on but it was cool. The UN was only faction that wasn't psycho and scary so I picked them usually. I like making people doctors and scientists because that was cool. I was about 10 years old.

25 years later I'm close to finally completing/winning a game of SMAC. I'm playing as the Caretaker aliens, another first. I'm going to draw Santiago away from her good cities by making a big show of a sacrificial captured city of theirs on the eastern edge of that landmass while I prepare for a naval invasion of the capital and the UN's former capital on western side :getin:

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Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


I personally really love that Age of Empires II has been consistently popular since release everywhere that isn't the United States

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