[Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's FREE SLICE ($25 delivery fee)

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(Thread IKs: skooma512)

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

anime was right posted:

yea i believe in stock buybacks. we put shareholders into stocks who must buyback their freedom

Labor camp commissary prices change based on market conditions hourly. You can buy futures to bet and hedge against the price, or subscribe to Gruel Plus to get a fixed price but with variable interest based on the highest fed market rate (like a student loan). Commisary debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy and will be inherited by next of kin.

This is an inspiring step forward towards truly market based and market themed solutions in reeducation.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:04

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# ? May 26, 2024 00:45

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

anime was right posted:

one of the big problems with weight loss is like, if your body needs like 1200-1400 calories for natural homeostasis to just exist (like, enough energy for functioning organs and getting adequate nutrition). you need to eat that or lower to really see results if you're like trying to drop from 1800 calories a day or something. so you're basically eating "under" (like 1000-1200 calories in this case) what your body is screaming at you for which is truly and utterly miserable because thats what you need to live and your hormones react accordingly. otherwise it will take you years to lose an adequate amount of weight because you're operating at like, a razor thin 50 calorie deficit which will take you multiple years to lose even 10 pounds.

if youre like, 100 pounds overweight, that first 60-80 pounds isnt a big deal, but that last 20 can be a huge issue, and if you're just cutting into overweight/obese there, most doctors (especially for AFAB patients) will tell you to lose weight.

the smaller you are, the more precise and diligent you have to be.

My issue eating under was always that I would feel like absolute poo poo and basically be nauseous the entire day. So sure, I could get down to an ideal weight if I wanted my life to be pure suffering for the years it took to get there. And lol at maintaining too.

Whatever, give everyone ozempic, I don't give a poo poo. Seems like a lot of grousing is driven from people irritated that people don't need to "put in the effort" anymore, even though for many that wasn't even a reasonable course of action to begin with.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:05

an egg: Nov 17, 2021

in the breeding season i subsist entirely on the morning dew and become translucent

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:07

FacelessVoid: Jul 8, 2009

quote:

Absolutely! I'm sure the caloric conversion to energy varies from person to person too.

I don't think metabolic rate/genetics/gut issues are root causes in the obesity epidemic. Yes, you do have a small amount of people with these things that can cause extreme weight loss or gain. But I don't think the variability between individuals is not as great as most people think. I can't find the source, but IIRC the genetic difference in fat gain between people is only 13% on average.

I think +90% is environmental. Particularly how children are raised in relation to food. Japan has a very low obesity rate and check out there school lunch programs compared to America:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIsWhmMmHQs

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:09

Scarabrae: Oct 7, 2002

Japan at least in urban areas also has a robust public transit system that allows you to walk everywhere

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:10

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

These takes are fine, but last call for diet chat, 5 minutes from this post

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:14

an egg: Nov 17, 2021

my tears alone contain enough fat to nourish a baby blue whale to maturity

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:15

Salt Fish: Sep 11, 2003; Cybernetic Crumb

Scarabrae posted:

Japan at least in urban areas also has a robust public transit system that allows you to walk everywhere

Hmm.. and yet public transport moves you around without needing to walk. Curious.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:25

HAIL eSATA-n: Apr 7, 2007

calls for posting diets are calls for self harm

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:28

Scarabrae: Oct 7, 2002

anyways here�s fun article

https://www.okdoomer.io/what-happens-when-you/

quote:

Scientists played a cruel little trick on some mice.

They had them poke their snouts into a little hole for some sugar. Every day, they made it a little more difficult. At first, the mice only had to poke once. Then it was two, then five. Then twenty times. After that, the mice got fed up and quit. The scientists studied their brains throughout the entire process, and they found something interesting.

Before the mice give up, there's a surge of activity in the ventral tegmental area of their brains, where dopamine boosts happen. Basically, this area regulates the risk and reward decisions in most mammals. As you might already know, your brain produces dopamine in response to reward. It also produces a chemical called nociceptin, basically the opposite. As the scientists conclude in a 2019 issue of Cell, poking your nose into a hole 20 times for no sugar tends to trigger a lot of nociceptin production.

Now imagine calling those mice depressed and giving them a pep talk so they keep poking their nose up a little hole for no sugar.

Imagine telling them, "Never give up."

That would be crazy, right?

Animals in the wild do the same thing in environments with depleted resources. It's not exactly giving up.

It's called nociception, the process used by just about every living creature to determine what to avoid. If there's no reward, only discomfort and pain, then you learn not to do something.

It's survival.

Wild animals can't afford to expend energy on ventures that aren't worth the effort. On an instinctual level, they understand that they expose themselves to predators and the elements every time they leave their little nests or burrows to go out and search for food or mates.

In nature, there's no irritating little life coaches running around telling things to try anyway and that failure is just a stage. There's life, and there's death. There's either food and sex, or there isn't. If there isn't, you wait. You bide your time. You conserve your precious energy.

You live another day.

Humans have a flaw. Many of us think it's good to keep going at all costs. We don't know when to walk away. Annie Duke writes about it in her book Quit. Our culture does a weird thing by rewarding people for never giving up, even when it ends in disaster and death. This problem plagues everyone, from corporations to governments. There's even a name for it:

Sunk cost fallacy.

It's the idea that somehow the enormous amounts of time, money, or energy you've invested offer a logical reason to keep going, no matter what other information you have telling you it's hopeless.

As we're reminded every minute, we're in the middle of a global mental health crisis. Nobody seems to want to spell out the real cause, but it has a lot to do with those mice and their nociceptin problem.

Millions of us have been poking our snouts up a little hole five, ten, twenty times for a little bit of sugar. Every day, we have to work harder for less. Our brains are bursting with "frustration neurons."

They make us want to quit.

People are opting out of careers. They're opting out of relationships. They go to work. They go home. Maybe they do parasocial activities like shopping or eating out, if they can afford them.

That's about it.

We've reached our breaking points. Even the "urgent normal crowd" isn't getting those sweet dopamine hits from their prepandemic lifestyles. And you can tell. Genuine happiness seems rare these days. Instead, there's a thin margarine of fake joy spread over everything. Make the slightest transgression, and you see the real emotions people are feeling: anger, loneliness, fear.

As for the positivity trolls: If they were truly happy and fulfilled, why do they spend so much time beating up on people for daring to express their emotions? That alone tells you something.

Everyone wants to quit, but they can't.

We went through a great resignation. Then we went through a year of quiet quitting. We had a bunch of strikes. Our bosses threatened to fire everyone. Employers started replacing us with robots.

Everyone has it rough.

Everyone's putting up with far more than they should. A lot of it comes from the insatiable greed at the top.

We've created an economic system that doesn't allow anyone to stay in their nests and stop seeking rewards. It doesn't matter how much nociceptin we've got in our brains. Capitalism compels us to continue pretending to seek rewards, even if there's no reward to be had.

Imagine how young people feel, cramming for tests and logging endless hours at entry level jobs when they know they'll never be able to afford a home or start a family. They know it's just going to be more disasters and pandemics from here on out, and a collapsing healthcare system.

There's no future for them.

Or us.

We all know what the solutions are, but in the meantime...

There's nothing wrong with doing what the mice do when the sugar runs out. In fact, it often feels like someone is doing a study on us, trying to figure out exactly how many times we'll keep sticking our nose in a hole for a little sugar. You're not crazy or depressed for wanting to quit. This is what sane, healthy animals do when it's not worth it to try so hard.

Here's the real kicker:

The researchers who made mice stick their noses into a hole twenty times for a little sugar talk about the implications of their study. They say that understanding how nociceptin works could help therapists and psychologists figure out how to motivate people or treat depression.

It never occurred to them...

If you want to help the mice overcome their depression, then maybe you could just give them the goddam sugar after ten pokes.

You know?

It's the same thing with our global mental health crisis. Instead of all these worthless videos and booklets and TED Talks on the value of friendship and mindfulness and grit, maybe we could get a living wage. Maybe we could get affordable homes. Maybe we could do something about the devastating heatwaves that turn sidewalks into a griddle and the wildfires that smother us with poison for half the summer.

Maybe we could stop all these futile wars.

The western world has gotten it backward for hundreds of years, treating our minds as things that exists apart from our bodies and environments. They don't. Our brains are things that emit chemicals in response to our realities. Our thoughts and feelings are the result of things in the real world that happen. You can't trick yourself into happiness.

You can't just pretend there's a reward when there's not.

I'm sure some scientists will figure out a way to artificially lower someone's nociceptin levels. It won't be a good thing.

We need it.

That's the whole problem with the brains in charge of this society. They're the brains that never give up, regardless of how much dopamine or nociceptin is flooding them. They just keep pushing themselves and everyone else past their limits and stopping points.

These are the mice that were supposed to get swooped up by owls and hawks. They didn't know when to stay home.

Instead, these mice benefited from the social safety nets that we built with our taxes and our essential services. We supported them with endless billions in forgivable loans, subsidies, and grants. Even if we didn't want to, our government took our money and gave it to them, the broken mice who didn't know when to give up, and thanks to us, they didn't have to.

These mice think they're the pinnacles of evolution. In reality, they're the end result of an extremely toxic, warped system that's so far removed from nature that their poster children want to live in space, a dead expanse of nothingness that can't support life. They think civilization could thrive there.

We're a society pushed past the point of exhaustion, forced to perpetuate systems with no reward and no motivation, egged on by tedious exercises in mindfulness and wishful thinking, by a small group of pampered babies who never learned life's most valuable lesson: when to quit.

We're a bunch of mice poking our noses into a hole a hundred times for nothing, and I guarantee you someone's sitting around wondering, "How do we get rid of their nociceptin, so they do it forever?"

If someone wants to fix us, I know where to start.

Give us the sugar.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:28

the milk machine: Jul 23, 2002; lick my keys

an egg posted:

i am so immense i have my own weather system. i cannot exercise due to the disruptive effect on the tides

not exerting one's own gravitational pull is a bourgeois affectation

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:32

anime was right: Jun 27, 2008; death is certain
keep yr cool

FacelessVoid posted:

I don't think metabolic rate/genetics/gut issues are root causes in the obesity epidemic. Yes, you do have a small amount of people with these things that can cause extreme weight loss or gain. But I don't think the variability between individuals is not as great as most people think. I can't find the source, but IIRC the genetic difference in fat gain between people is only 13% on average.

I think +90% is environmental. Particularly how children are raised in relation to food. Japan has a very low obesity rate and check out there school lunch programs compared to America:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIsWhmMmHQs

gut biome is purely environmental and your guts heavily influence your brain. some of the most important brain chemicals that alter mood are almost exclusively made in the gut. gut bacteria do a ton of your digestion for you.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:33

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

Scarabrae posted:

Mousechat

I agree, give me sugar and the violent end of the oligarchy

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:35

anime was right: Jun 27, 2008; death is certain
keep yr cool

Scarabrae posted:

anyways here�s fun article

https://www.okdoomer.io/what-happens-when-you/

legit wonder if task initiation from ADHD/autism/etc is caused by something related to this chemical. ive only ever seen discussions on dopamine and poo poo.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:37

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

anime was right posted:

legit wonder if task initiation from ADHD/autism/etc is caused by something related to this chemical. ive only ever seen discussions on dopamine and poo poo.

I think you're describing dopamine.

It's one of the reasons adults with ADHD are either overweight (dopamine hit from eating, eating when bored, too focussed on something else to exercise) or underweight (indifferent to food, amphetamines, too focused on something else to eat), or fit (dopamine hit from exercise, exercise is interesting) , or cycle between the three states, but usually not at some sort of stable weight, diet and exercise regime.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:42

anime was right: Jun 27, 2008; death is certain
keep yr cool

Frosted Flake posted:

I think you're describing dopamine.

It's one of the reasons adults with ADHD are either overweight (dopamine hit from eating, eating when bored, too focussed on something else to exercise) or underweight (indifferent to food, amphetamines, too focused on something else to eat), or fit (dopamine hit from exercise, exercise is interesting) , or cycle between the three states, but usually not at some sort of stable weight, diet and exercise regime.

i mean the chemical is overproduced and then task avoidance immediately happens and from a brief bit of research it looks like PTSD triggers this chemical too and that also kills peoples motivations/emotions so i dunno. dopamine does help obviously but this could be the source of the imbalance. seems interesting

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:46

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

I know a lot of people that have the ADHD/PTSD one-two punch, so that's a bit interesting.

I was also reading that how ADHD/PTSD present in women is more often considered characterological than the same behaviours presented in men, so there's a social dimension to all of this as well. Specifically women who suffer abuse, or even just have ADHD (?) are considered bad, for lack of a better word, because their behaviour is considered a result of their choices/personalities rather than symptomatic.

I don't know how you would even begin to untangle some of these webs.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 20:53 on Jan 27, 2024

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:49

anime was right: Jun 27, 2008; death is certain
keep yr cool

Frosted Flake posted:

I know a lot of people that have the ADHD/PTSD one-two punch, so that's a bit interesting.

I was also reading that how ADHD/PTSD present in women is more often considered characterological than the same behaviours presented in men, so there's a social dimension to all of this as well.

yeah i have PTSD but i dont think its directly ADHD related, but i wouldnt be shocked if the presence of ADHD makes PTSD more common either through how other people treat people with ADHD or chemical triggers that are more likely to happen

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:52

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

anime was right posted:

yeah i have PTSD but i dont think its directly ADHD related, but i wouldnt be shocked if the presence of ADHD makes PTSD more common either through how other people treat people with ADHD or chemical triggers that are more likely to happen

The example given was that most, iirc nearly all, women on LA's Skid Row who use meth were victims of CSA, in addition to their descriptions of meth as calming hinting that they might be trying to self medicate for undiagnosed ADHD. If there's a relation, it's possible they're also self-medicating for PTSD, which, incidentally seems to explain virtually all the drug and alcohol use among women in that segment of the sex trade.

But obviously these are people who society has failed in virtually every way so trying to identify and treat their ADHD is pretty far down the list of help they'd need.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:55

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

The economy is expanding, and you must expand with it

# ? Jan 27, 2024 20:59

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

blatman posted:

im no expert but 80lbs a year for 13 years sounds unsustainable

You're definitely not an expert at reading.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:12

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

I�m convinced my basal metabolic rate is like 2

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:15

actionjackson: Jan 12, 2003

Glumwheels posted:

A place I�ll no longer shop at

my gf is very unhappy about this

but you know no ethical consumption under capitalism :confused:

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:17

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Unions are collapsing everyday.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:18

actionjackson: Jan 12, 2003

food - if you are a vegetarian get your B12 levels checked

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:19

Second Hand Meat Mouth: Sep 12, 2001

actionjackson posted:

food - if you are a vegetarian get your B12 levels checked

just drink energy drinks et voila it's fine

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:21

Venomous: Nov 7, 2011

actionjackson posted:

food - if you are a vegetarian get your B12 levels checked

imo everyone should be taking vitamin supplements, especially if you're vegetarian/vegan, because there's every chance you don't get enough in your food

anyway, is number going to plummet enough by November to get Trump reelected

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:39

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

Scarabrae posted:

anyways here’s fun article

https://www.okdoomer.io/what-happens-when-you/

https://youtu.be/YwCSmVHzhqM

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:44

webcams for christ: Nov 2, 2005

this FT article made the rounds on CSPAM when it was published in December, rightly so:

showing China fully ascendant as the largest economy in the world, if one were to account to currencies, asset prices, and everything else accounted for in the IMF's measure of purchasing power. the difference is even starker if one were to look at kilowatt hours as a raw measure of human and economic activity

in a similar vein, Dylan Sullivan, Michail Moatsos & Jason Hickel published a new paper, "Capitalist reforms and extreme poverty in China: unprecedented progress or income deflation?" comparing nominal (though PPP-adjusted) World Bank measure of poverty versus a more specific measure, the OECD-approved "Basic Needs Poverty Line":

The Abstract posted:

It is widely believed that China's socialist economy had relatively high rates of extreme poverty while the capitalist reforms of the 1980s and 1990s delivered rapid progress. This narrative relies on World Bank estimates of the share of people living on less than $1.90 a day (2011 PPP), which show a sharp decline from 88 per cent in 1981 to zero by 2018. However, the World Bank�s poverty line has been critiqued for ignoring variations in the actual cost of meeting basic needs. In this paper we review data published by the OECD on the share of people unable to afford a subsistence basket. These estimates indicate that from 1981 to 1990, when most of China�s socialist provisioning systems were still in place, the country�s extreme poverty rate was on average only 5.6 per cent, substantially lower than in capitalist economies of comparable size and income at the time: 51 per cent in India, 36.5 per cent in Indonesia, and 29.5 per cent in Brazil. China's comparatively strong performance is corroborated by data on other social indicators. Moreover, extreme poverty in China increased during the capitalist reforms of the 1990s, reaching a peak of 68 per cent, as privatisation inflated the prices of essential goods and thus deflated the incomes of the working classes. These results indicate that socialist provisioning policies can be effective at preventing extreme poverty, while market reforms may threaten people's ability to meet basic needs.

IMF "Dollar a Day" ($1.90 at 2011 PPP) Poverty vs.OECD subsistence basket measures of poverty in China:

and here is an international comparison of the substinance basket from '81 to '08:

the paper goes into detail to show that the substinance basket better correlates with other QoL indicators such as infant mortality, maternal mortality, and educational attainment, leading to these highlights from the discussion and conclusion:

quote:

The standard narrative about extreme poverty in China holds that the socialist period was marked by some of the lowest living standards in the world, and that progress against extreme destitution began with the capitalist reforms. However, this narrative relies on the World Bank�s poverty line of $1.9-a-day, which fails to account for international differences in the relative price of food and other basic need-satisfiers. This is problematic because China�s extensive public provisioning and price control systems ensured that the price of essentials was low relative to other items. In this paper, we have instead looked at the �basic needs poverty line,� as estimated by Moatsos (Citation2021), which allows us to directly assess whether the population could meet a set of minimum physiological needs. This approach yields results that contradict the dominant narrative. Data on basic needs reveals two things: First, that during the 1980s, when much of China�s socialist economy was still in place (see, Figure 2), China had some of the lowest extreme poverty rates in the developing world; and second, that China�s capitalist reforms, in particular the privatisation drive of the 1990s, caused a major rise in poverty.

This illuminates an important paradox. The World Bank data shows that broad-gauge PPP incomes were rising in China during the 1990s, but empirical evidence shows that people were nonetheless becoming poorer in terms of their ability to access basic need-satisfiers. This raises significant questions about the usefulness of the World Bank�s approach to measuring poverty. Any legitimate indicator of poverty must take account of the cost of basic needs, paying attention to how these change under different provisioning systems.
.
The data we present here indicates that public provisioning systems can be powerful tools for reducing or preventing extreme poverty and hunger in developing countries, even at relatively low levels of GDP per capita. Indeed, this may be a faster and more efficient way of improving human development outcomes than relying on capitalist markets.
.
Similarly, in his detailed study of health indicators around the world, Navarro (Citation1993) concluded that socialist countries generally had superior population health standards. Navarro noted that socialist China had much higher life expectancy than capitalist India, while Cuba outperformed the rest of Latin America.
.
It is plausible that higher poverty lines (i.e. those that account for the price of education, information technology, transportation, and other goods), would lead to different conclusions from those we have arrived at here. China was a very low-income country in the 1980s, and it did not have the productive capacity at the time to deliver higher standards of living for all.
.
the dismantling of China�s public provisioning systems led to a marked reduction in the ability of the poor to access the goods they require for survival, and therefore caused extreme poverty to rise.
.
As Dr�ze and Sen have argued, the lack of democracy and independent media in Maoist China led to the famine between 1958�1961, which killed millions of people. Nevertheless, Dr�ze and Sen acknowledge that, �every eight years or so more people die in India because of its higher regular death rate than died in China in the gigantic famine of 1958�61. India seems to manage to fill its cupboard with more skeletons every eight years than China put there in its years of shame � [T]he Chinese political commitment � not unrelated to the ideological predispositions of the Chinese political system � seems to have served the country well for combating endemic deprivation, despite its failure as a defense against famines�. It is therefore important to note that outside of the famine years, socialist China achieved very low mortality rates for a low-income country
.
One might argue that while China�s capitalist reforms increased extreme poverty in the short to medium term, they were nevertheless necessary for longer term improvements in living standards. As we have noted, China in the 1980s was a low-income country which lacked the productive capacity to ensure higher-order �decent living� for its population. Perhaps the capitalist reforms were necessary to increase productive capacity, expand industrial output, and provide the material prerequisites for higher living standards. Ultimately, however, that argument is unconvincing. There is limited evidence that public involvement in the economy is inconsistent with strong growth rates. Allen (Citation2003) has compared the Soviet Union�s growth performance to countries that started from a similar level of development. He concludes that between the adoption of economic planning in 1928 and the collapse of the Soviet bloc in 1989, the USSR grew faster than �all major non-OECD countries with the exception of Taiwan and South Korea � the leaders of the East Asian miracle�.

obviously I don't agree with their final assessment, but it's fair to look at the very real human cost of Dengism. a painful tradeoff that seems to have been worth it

webcams for christ has issued a correction as of 21:50 on Jan 27, 2024

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:46

RadiRoot: Feb 3, 2007

net work error posted:

https://twitter.com/josheidelson/status/1751004231342174408?t=Njd4LI8MKznADmBn4ntRJQ&s=19

wont make me stop going to aldis

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:51

webcams for christ: Nov 2, 2005

RadiRoot posted:

wont make me stop going to aldis

Aldi S�d operates the Aldis in the USA. Aldi Nord operates Trader Joe's. fully separate corperations

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:56

RadiRoot: Feb 3, 2007

im sure its still bad for some reason or another. no ethical consumption etc.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:58

i am harry: Oct 14, 2003

stocks up, great now we can shed some of that dead weight ie the workforce

i hate these people

# ? Jan 27, 2024 21:59

19 o'clock: Sep 9, 2004; Excelsior!!!

I�m at the econ thread
I�m at the weight loss thread
I�m at the combination econ weight loss thread

# ? Jan 27, 2024 22:04

anime was right: Jun 27, 2008; death is certain
keep yr cool

19 o'clock posted:

I�m at the econ thread
I�m at the weight loss thread
I�m at the combination econ weight loss thread

economies of scale

# ? Jan 27, 2024 22:05

Twerk from Home: Jan 17, 2009; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

webcams for christ posted:

Aldi Süd operates the Aldis in the USA. Aldi Nord operates Trader Joe's. fully separate corperations

Isn't the reason that the Aldi corporation split in half because of an argument over whether to sell cigarettes?

# ? Jan 27, 2024 22:05

webcams for christ: Nov 2, 2005

Twerk from Home posted:

Isn't the reason that the Aldi corporation split in half because of an argument over whether to sell cigarettes?

# ? Jan 27, 2024 22:06

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

net work error posted:

https://twitter.com/josheidelson/status/1751004231342174408?t=Njd4LI8MKznADmBn4ntRJQ&s=19

Trader Joe's has union busted for many years - no shock here.

# ? Jan 27, 2024 22:06

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

webcams for christ posted:

Aldi Süd operates the Aldis in the USA. Aldi Nord operates Trader Joe's. fully separate corperations

They're owned by the same family of German billionaires

# ? Jan 27, 2024 22:08

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# ? May 26, 2024 00:45

anime was right: Jun 27, 2008; death is certain
keep yr cool

i purchase all my oil from the good koch brother

# ? Jan 27, 2024 22:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Doomsday Economics] Home of Kirbeh's FREE SLICE ($25 delivery fee)

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