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Lord Of Texas posted:I am not defending anyone, but to have this take, you have to have never worked in a large company. I've worked at multiple companies around WWE size, and you only know about the C-levels what they want you to know. The ancient greeks knew more about the happenings in Mt. Olympus. At my current workplace major happenings are almost always broken to staff via public release. We don't know poo poo. All talent are closer to Vince than 99.9% of most say, Amazon employees are to Bezos including their corporate offices. It's more like working for the Weinstein Company. To an extent you should know better and you are doing gymnastics to justify your employment, but even there everyone only knows to a point and can be shocked when the details are exposed.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:18
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Lord Of Texas posted:I am not defending anyone, but to have this take, you have to have never worked in a large company. I've worked at multiple companies around WWE size, and you only know about the C-levels what they want you to know. The ancient greeks knew more about the happenings in Mt. Olympus. At my current workplace major happenings are almost always broken to staff via public release. We don't know poo poo. Just to clarify, I meant generally—everyone knew Vince was the most monstrous in an industry full of monsters and that WWE in itself is a shady organisation. I think saying someone didn't know about the full extent of the recent allegation as a defence for them working with the monster is pretty weak when it's already established the monster is a monster way before that. RealityWarCriminal posted:There is a difference between 'everyone knew the details of this case' and 'everyone knew the culture is abusive'. everyone knew the culture was abusive. Basically, this.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:19
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he was parading the pictures and stories of his acts around to everyone from talent to the tech guys and referees - everyone at the very least knew crazy gross poo poo was happening
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Jan 28, 2024 15:19
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Long-Time Lurker posted:I think saying someone didn't know about the full extent of the recent allegation as a defence for them working with the monster is pretty weak when it's already established the monster is a monster way before that. but then its also a weak defense for anyone that worked w/ vinces old rear end for any longer than a few months, natch i know u know this, im just saying it out loud
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Jan 28, 2024 15:21
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Sydney Bottocks posted:What does that have to do with your claim that people were being "bullied" for deliberately being shitheads in here? you do realize you're yelling at the wrong person right
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Jan 28, 2024 15:21
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WWE started doing press conferences because AEW did and instead of just not doing one for their fake sport after very serious allegations, they decided to still do it. Like they could have just sent in Miz and Cody to say how cool WWE is but no. They’re so loving stupid.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:22
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Alaois posted:you do realize you're yelling at the wrong person right I'm not "yelling" at anyone, I'm genuinely asking a question.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:23
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Orange Carlisle posted:he was parading the pictures and stories of his acts around to everyone from talent to the tech guys and referees - everyone at the very least knew crazy gross poo poo was happening You are taking Vince McMahon at his word. Tou think Vince was going around telling everyone he was raping her. I picture a sad old man trying to show off his hot "girlfriend" to people who had no idea of their actions. Do you also believe a referee ran off to masturbate immediately after being shown photos? Come on.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:23
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MasterSitsu posted:Tou think Vince was going around telling everyone he was raping her. its possible...
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Jan 28, 2024 15:24
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I'm not "yelling" at anyone, I'm genuinely asking a question. well then you're genuinely asking a question to the wrong person because they're not the one who said anyone was being bullied
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Jan 28, 2024 15:26
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MasterSitsu posted:You are taking Vince McMahon at his word. is it that hard to believe Vince would surround himself with other people who would absolutely be masturbating to a story about the rape and abuse of a young girl? theres a good bit of history now to tell us that its been all sex pests the entire time the company has been here
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Jan 28, 2024 15:26
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MasterSitsu posted:You are taking Vince McMahon at his word. did you read any of the lawsuit
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Jan 28, 2024 15:26
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RealityWarCriminal posted:There is a difference between 'everyone knew the details of this case' and 'everyone knew the culture is abusive'. everyone knew the culture was abusive. I agree with this. But even messages ago people are insisting a vast majority of talent saw the pictures and knew the details. It's insane.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:26
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Alaois posted:well then you're genuinely asking a question to the wrong person because they're not the one who said anyone was being bullied quote:And there is absolutely a bullying of consensus going on in this thread  E: in the interests of fairness, and not wishing to continue to harp on the same point, I will concede that it's possible I missed their original point. Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 15:27
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MasterSitsu posted:I agree with this. But even messages ago people are insisting a vast majority of talent saw the pictures and knew the details. It's insane. so like whats your goal here?
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Jan 28, 2024 15:30
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To stand up for cody no matter what
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Jan 28, 2024 15:31
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Aye Doc posted:is it that hard to believe Vince would surround himself with other people who would absolutely be masturbating to a story about the rape and abuse of a young girl? theres a good bit of history now to tell us that its been all sex pests the entire time the company has been here I believe he has a circle with one set of details, and a vast majority of these other stories, like the referee one, read like Trump stories about everyone begging him like a dog for an endorsement. I can believe he was telling sex stories painted as consensual to hundreds of people.I very clearly do not believe he was sharing rape stories with thousands of people. "It's possible..." No.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:32
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JUNGLE BOY posted:so like whats your goal here? To stand up for Cody no matter what, I'm told.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:33
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MasterSitsu posted:To stand up for Cody no matter what, I'm told. no but like actually? what are you trying to accomplish here, in your words?
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Jan 28, 2024 15:34
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MasterSitsu posted:I agree with this. But even messages ago people are insisting a vast majority of talent saw the pictures and knew the details. It's insane. Did people really say that? I'm pretty sure no one was implying talents and staffers knew specific details of this case, just that Vince is an established piece of poo poo and so is WWE so it shouldn't come off as a shock to Cody or whomever when it turned out Vince is indeed a piece of poo poo.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:35
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WWE is nothing at all like most other huge companies. I work for a huge company and have never met the CEO. There are 5 levels of management between me and him and I’ve only ever had interactions with my boss’ boss. In WWE, Vince was constantly in the locker room, constantly interacting with people, constantly changing things and being at the shows. You can’t realistically claim ignorance of what he was up to at that point, some wrestlers probably saw him as much as they saw their own families. Not every person had Vince show them pictures or talk about this poo poo, but it’s naive to assume your favorite WWE superstar was totally in the dark.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:39
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Even if the extent of what the people he showed pictures to and engaged in all of his rape machismo bullshit was "she's his girlfriend and she works at the company", that's still bad!
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Jan 28, 2024 15:40
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Those hammers rode on Vince's plane. What did those pieces of poo poo know? For real, though, Vince and Brock apparently rode the private jet from Saudi and back together. That was probably super pervert hours.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:41
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MasterSitsu posted:I very clearly do not believe he was sharing rape stories with thousands of people. For someone that was taking MRT to task over not knowing how the ultrawealthy operate just a few pages back, you sure come across as naive about how untouchable rich people in general think they are, and how untouchable Vince McMahon in particular thinks he is. It wouldn't shock me one bit if it came out that Vince sent pics or stories about his crimes to as many people as he wanted to that worked for him. Why wouldn't he? It'd be a huge power trip for him, if not an actual kink he's indulging. He pretty much thinks he owns them, and he (correctly) figures that nobody in his company has the guts to go public with the evidence. I can understand if you're unable to fathom the depths of his depravity, I think a lot of us were at one time or another. But to say it could never have possibly happened is not realistic.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:43
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guys like styles, punk, edge, christian, rhodes, big show, bryan danielson, kevin owens, miz, even guys like adam cole. they at the very least strongly suspected some seriously shady rear end poo poo was going down
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Jan 28, 2024 15:44
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Vince McMahon would definitely have too much shame to actually go sharing his sick fetish behavior with tons of random employees Vince McMahon would definitely have too much shame to go chasing another old man with poo poo covered underwear in front of tons of random employees Vince McMahon would definitely have too much shame to actually go turning his incestuous fetish hangups by making it storyline fodder in front of every single fan and employee
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Jan 28, 2024 15:45
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Long-Time Lurker posted:Just to clarify, I meant generally—everyone knew Vince was the most monstrous in an industry full of monsters and that WWE in itself is a shady organisation. I think saying someone didn't know about the full extent of the recent allegation as a defence for them working with the monster is pretty weak when it's already established the monster is a monster way before that. I mean I can only speak for myself but I didn't think Vince literally gangraped someone until Thursday.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:49
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JUNGLE BOY posted:no but like actually? what are you trying to accomplish here, in your words? Was looking for a conversation about the moral dilemma of watching wrestling as a whole when the culture that Vince fostered - which includes not just abuse but apathy and fear of doing anything to stop it, inability to unionize, the whole shebang - is seeded throughout the industry. Anyone who has been through the WWE system has to some degree been tainted or taught to accept that things are the way they are. I believe people like Cody, or say, the UUDD video gamer crew, genuinely believe they are fostering a better culture and that all they can do is foster a better culture where they can, hold each other accountable, and do better moving forward. That a better future is possible, that all you can do is the next right thing. I think its naive but I dont think that makes them bad people. That's what I was looking to find or contribute to, but everyone is targeted on WWE as the only place where the culture is seeded, everyone there knew and is lying if they believe that their co-workers are essentially good people looking to do better. Anything I put out here is pointless if its just going to be painted as Cody stanning at best or rape apologism at worst. I'm out.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:52
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MasterSitsu posted:Was looking for a conversation about the moral dilemma of watching wrestling as a whole when the culture that Vince fostered - which includes not just abuse but apathy and fear of doing anything to stop it, inability to unionize, the whole shebang - is seeded throughout the industry. Anyone who has been through the WWE system has to some degree been tainted or taught to accept that things are the way they are. Nobody's "targeted" on WWE, we're discussing WWE because this is the WWE discussion thread. Sorry that you think everyone here thinks rape culture in wrestling only begins and ends in WWE. I mean, that's wildly incorrect, and clearly indicates you haven't ever read any other threads, but you do you.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:55
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MasterSitsu posted:Was looking for a conversation about the moral dilemma of watching wrestling as a whole when the culture that Vince fostered - which includes not just abuse but apathy and fear of doing anything to stop it, inability to unionize, the whole shebang - is seeded throughout the industry. Anyone who has been through the WWE system has to some degree been tainted or taught to accept that things are the way they are. dont leave yet pl0x where do u draw the line btw cody rhodes and triple h? assuming triple h didnt do any of the horrible acts but suspected ab them (he knew ab the relationship at least). if he had the mentality of just waiting for vince to die so he can foster a better culture and move forward, isnt it already too late?
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Jan 28, 2024 15:56
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Whether Cody realizes it or not his answer gave cover to all the people that enabled Vince that still work there and that he knows still work there.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:56
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MasterSitsu posted:Was looking for a conversation about the moral dilemma of watching wrestling as a whole when the culture that Vince fostered - which includes not just abuse but apathy and fear of doing anything to stop it, inability to unionize, the whole shebang - is seeded throughout the industry. Anyone who has been through the WWE system has to some degree been tainted or taught to accept that things are the way they are. Maybe you can understand why it’s kind of weird at a time when this big awful story has just dropped to barge in and start tone policing people who are angry at WWE right now?
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Jan 28, 2024 15:56
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Vandar posted:This whole mess has certainly shown me where the priorities and morals of some of my acquaintances lie. They aren’t being “bullied” as much as they deserve. Wrestling will never be worth the depths they stooped to willingly
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Jan 28, 2024 15:59
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I used to have that urge to correct people when they aren't getting all the facts about the atrocity right too but c'mon man, let them have their hyperbole. The facts we all agree on here are loving gruesome so I think it's more reasonable to completely flip out about this right now than to expect a measured debate over the soul of wrestling.
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Jan 28, 2024 15:59
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Fucker posted:guys like styles, punk, edge, christian, rhodes, big show, bryan danielson, kevin owens, miz, even guys like adam cole. they at the very least strongly suspected some seriously shady rear end poo poo was going down Even without this lawsuit, the public stories of Vince alone let you know who the guy is. Someone like Bryan Danielson doesn’t seem like a dumb guy and yet he adores Vince. Has a book of notes from him apparently. Vince grooms his wrestlers too, and harbors an atmosphere that made everyone have to implicitly agree to his bs to get their paycheck at the very least. Vince is bragging about this stuff to camera guys, the wrestlers saw way worse for sure.
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Jan 28, 2024 16:02
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Maduo posted:I used to have that urge to correct people when they aren't getting all the facts about the atrocity right too but c'mon man, let them have their hyperbole. The facts we all agree on here are loving gruesome so I think it's more reasonable to completely flip out about this right now than to expect a measured debate over the soul of wrestling. I think it's hard to have that debate, though, when someone's starting from the basis of "everyone clearly thinks wrestling is 100% squeaky clean EXCEPT for WWE", which is demonstrably not true given that there have been a few discussions about that very subject in the AEW threads (most recently when Flair got hired, and again shortly after when the accusations-that-weren't were made by Hausman towards Jericho). Kind of hard to have a good faith debate when someone's already decided that the other side is a bunch of naive rubes.
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Jan 28, 2024 16:04
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bryan danielson had to deal w/ vince and w/ john laurinitis being his father in law shits dark
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Jan 28, 2024 16:05
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Hi I am just barging in to say that was the worst Royal Rumble I have ever seen and I feel like it was changed drastically before it happened. I found out about the allegations while I was watching it and now it all makes sense. Do you think CM Punk is pissed? I felt like him saying “I didn’t wait ten years to lose to Dusty’s kid!” was a statement of anger but maybe I am a mark.
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Jan 28, 2024 16:08
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UnleashedDad posted:Someone like Bryan Danielson doesn’t seem like a dumb guy Danielson said outright Kane’s the smartest man he’s ever known in wrestling, I am willing to call him dumb or believe him being dumb is possible
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Jan 28, 2024 16:09
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Fucker posted:bryan danielson had to deal w/ vince and w/ john laurinitis being his father in law I really do not envy the position he is in. It’s very very sad.
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Jan 28, 2024 16:10
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