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I've always found Tynan's insistence that Rimworld is not a game and is instead a "story simulator" weird considering how bad it is at being that and how that's not how the majority of the playerbase seems to engage with it, it's always felt to me that it's just an excuse so he doesn't have to balance things or do other things people expect for a game.
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Jan 28, 2024 08:28
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Impermanent posted:Killboxes are the bane of this game. Having little tactical shootouts that matter and cause sudden and traumatic ends to story beats is a huge part of what makes it interesting. This would be a lot more true if most raids were actually "little tactical shootouts" instead of "one of the NPC factions sends 25 completely expendable guys to wash over your 5 colonists like a tidal wave every two weeks". Doltos posted:I think killboxes being the bane is a symptom of the game being geared around combat. Raids feel like they should be the end result of bad relations with a faction that you caused with choices you make throughout the game. Even with armor, it has sharp limits to how much it can protect you in vanilla. It's extremely possible for a nobody with a bolt action to just dome your cataphract super soldier - it's a low chance, but every fight in this game past the dirt grubbing early game involves you fighting outnumbered at least 3 to 1, and raids are constant and omnipresent, so roll those dice enough and it'll happen. You can also have a skill 3 guy with a shiv get lucky and beat a level 20 melee guy in close combat. VideoWitch posted:I've always found Tynan's insistence that Rimworld is not a game and is instead a "story simulator" weird considering how bad it is at being that and how that's not how the majority of the playerbase seems to engage with it, it's always felt to me that it's just an excuse so he doesn't have to balance things or do other things people expect for a game. This hasn't been true for a very long time. Basically every expansion has added stuff that supports long term games instead of the old intended race-to-the-ship gameplay(psionics, a lot of ideology bonuses/fluid ideologies in general, basically all of biotech). Kanos fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 08:32
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Kanos posted:This hasn't been true for a very long time. Basically every expansion has added stuff that supports long term games instead of the old intended race-to-the-ship gameplay(psionics, a lot of ideology bonuses/fluid ideologies in general, basically all of biotech). I mean I started playing post-biotech and it constantly feels like any story I try to construct about my base is constantly butting up against the most annoying parts of the game. I'll admit I'm probably being unfair due to having a low opinion of Tynan and thinking that just from the amount of mods you need to make Rimworld feel good to play it's not a very good game, but basically every base I've had that I didn't just get bored of fell due to some random event I had no control over.
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Jan 28, 2024 08:45
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i remember the first time i got a message saying that one of the factions wanted to parlay for a peace treaty and i should send a group i was like "oh poo poo who should I send i probably need like a guard and to bring some like gifts or some poo poo" no this was not like that. I wasn't exactly expecting some gloranthia-rear end cyoa type thing but idunno i thought it would be more involved than it was. Fairly involved.
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Jan 28, 2024 08:52
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VideoWitch posted:I mean I started playing post-biotech and it constantly feels like any story I try to construct about my base is constantly butting up against the most annoying parts of the game. I'll admit I'm probably being unfair due to having a low opinion of Tynan and thinking that just from the amount of mods you need to make Rimworld feel good to play it's not a very good game, but basically every base I've had that I didn't just get bored of fell due to some random event I had no control over. I think it's perfectly valid to have complaints about how aspects of vanilla are balanced - see the eternal "killboxes y/n?" debate - but I'm mostly just asserting that Tynan has largely caved to the will of the majority and almost all of the content that has been added in recent years exists to support and enable people to play Indefinite Dwarf Fortress Sim City more easily. Biotech in particular is a love letter to sustaining an indefinite colony because mechanitors actually enable you to expand your combat/labor force relatively indefinitely to make you incredibly resistant to stuff like "whoops everyone caught the plague and can't work/fight" and the entire genepack system is completely pointless outside of the context of "I am building my pretty 10 year colony full of transhumanist superpeople". SniperWoreConverse posted:i remember the first time i got a message saying that one of the factions wanted to parlay for a peace treaty and i should send a group i was like "oh poo poo who should I send i probably need like a guard and to bring some like gifts or some poo poo" Whenever we get another expac, the game is screaming for the world map and diplomacy to get a tremendous rework.
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Jan 28, 2024 09:03
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There are a few different factors that play into how combat in Rimworld is unsatisfying in my opinion. First is how raids are magically generated out of thin air, so no matter how many hundreds of raiders you drop there will still be more coming, all with no warning so you are never comfortable sending fighters on caravan. Second is that raids are scaled according to your colony's development, so they're always going to get bigger - there's no satisfaction of getting a raid the size of something from a few years ago and thinking "yeah, I've totally outgrown this". Third is that combat is inevitable unless you play on Peaceful because diplomatic options are limited: you can't pay off raiders with tribute and you can't negotiate defense agreements, so you're forced into preparing your own defenses and circling back to points one and two. Unsurprisingly there are mods that try to address these factors (Faction Resources, Combat Readiness Check, several different mercenary hiring mods) but they often end up in varying states of bugginess or don't quite integrate seamlessly into the vanilla gameplay. Some people prefer stacking combat mechanics in their favor instead (Combat Extended or one of the other combat overhaul mods) which feels more like treating the symptoms rather than the cause in my opinion, but if that makes it fun for you then go right ahead. Personally I think the vanilla combat mechanics are generally fine, just turn down the colonist instant death slider in the storyteller settings if you're attached to pawns and don't want to go on quests for resurrection serums. With the addition of biosculpters to remove scarring the attrition factor of vanilla combat is a lot less debilitating than it used to be. SniperWoreConverse posted:i remember the first time i got a message saying that one of the factions wanted to parlay for a peace treaty and i should send a group i was like "oh poo poo who should I send i probably need like a guard and to bring some like gifts or some poo poo" I believe that's a modded event, from More Faction Quests or something like that. Same one that adds random healing shamans and stuff? I ended up dropping it because it was causing issues not related to quests.  Kanos posted:Whenever we get another expac, the game is screaming for the world map and diplomacy to get a tremendous rework. All signs point to a new DLC announcement in the coming months, though we still have no details on what it might be about.
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Jan 28, 2024 09:14
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I agree that diplo and the world at large is a very obvious direction for an expac and major patch to thoroughly overhaul, there are so many things you could do. Also opens a path to a new victory condition where you unify the planet or at least enforce peace, this could combine different levels of combat, trade, and diplo according to tastes, like you have to show tribes you're trustworthy and will respect and protect their ancient rights, you bring the settlers in by keeping trade routes safe so everyone can prosper, you win over medievals by inviting them to your celebrations and hosting them for feasts and poo poo, you marshal allied settlements to campaign against the threats you have to fight like the mechanoids... It's unlikely they'd go for such a reliance on previous DLC but you could even relate it more to ideologies, like the win condition in this game is everyone has to adopt an ideo that requires vegetarianism or something
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Jan 28, 2024 10:06
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Did you guys ever watch playthroughs by that Youtube streamer "The Noble Rambler"? I was watching him stream some other games because he plays a lot of these types of games, and survival-type games, which I'm both really into, and as some of them are pretty obscure it was cool to see them all in one place. After enjoying a few of his videos I decided to watch him play Rimworld for a while (an older Beta version unfortunately) because I didn't have a lot of experience with caravans and I wanted to see that process, esp. since I play on permadeath. It's a rough watch. I think it's a great format for an introduction because you're going in completely clueless and get to see the trappings of everything, but watching him play Rimworld really highlighted to me how he dissects every single feature and aspect of a game and for a game you're already familiar with, it's not great. I'd estimate that an evening of play for you could translate into 40 1-hour videos. Like when I go into combat maybe I'm lazy as I expect somebody to get hurt a little bit. That is not even an idea he wanted to entertain. Pause after every gunshot. Check cover %'s for each pawn and likelihood to hit incoming raiders. Unpause. Gunshot. Pause. When not in combat micro-managing every single pawns action. Pausing, checking and micro-managing seemingly ever four seconds. I like some variety. I like random-ness. I like reacting. I like my doctor to get some work now and again. I did learn a few things from his videos before veering off though, like you can shift-click tasks to queue them in sequence.
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Jan 28, 2024 18:03
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isndl posted:I believe that's a modded event, from More Faction Quests or something like that. Same one that adds random healing shamans and stuff? I ended up dropping it because it was causing issues not related to quests. Nope vanilla. I expected some kinda map to load and the parley to happen, or maybe a set of options, but it seems to just be based on the skill of whoever you send and your only concern is if they get jumped on the way there or back, or maybe bump into friendly traders.
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Jan 28, 2024 18:11
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I've been enjoying doing a gimmick run based around the Anty race, which bucks the normal trend for Rimworld anime girl race mods by actually having extremely unique mechanics and unique tech that occupies its own niche. Basically, your normal colonists kind of suck. They have horrific crippling work speed maluses for everything but mining and construction, your social is so bad you'll never convince anyone to join you in a million years(outside of slavery, of course), and while your unique body parts mean that you'll very rarely lose parts or take internal damage, you're extremely fragile overall and Anty pawns will tend to die outright rather than be maimed. The tradeoff for all this is that they get mood *bonuses* for social fighting and insults, they love combat in general, and they don't give a poo poo about corpses and tainted clothing. So if your pawns love fighting but suck horribly at it, how do you sustain things? Well, they're ants. You designate a couple of your colonists as queens and they can be ordered to produce eggs which hatch into new Anties in 10 days. Said new Anties are basically like vat soldiers from vanilla - terrible skills and no passions but functional out of the gate, and newly hatched Anties also spawn with a buff that gives them a huge learning boost for a long while so every Anty you hatch is effectively a blank slate you can mold in any way you want. An Anty crafter will be completely terrible compared to a baseliner due to their crushing work speed malus, but hey, you can mass produce them. Anty tech is also unique. Their weapons are built around an acid melt gimmick; all of their guns are weaker than comparable vanilla guns, but hits from them put a very minor but stackable acid damage over time on the part they hit. If a part takes sufficient acid melt damage, it's destroyed automatically even if the part still has HP left. This means that their guns are quite bad at fighting hordes of weaker enemies(tribal human waves, for example) but are *extremely* good at fighting tough single targets that normally soak up tons of fire like centipedes; slap a centipede with enough acid weapon fire and it'll start losing parts. At mid-late tech, you can upgrade your acid weapons into redburst weapons, which are basically super acid and some of them have blast radii. Their endgame armor is fairly standard power armor but is uniquely tailored to protecting against the race's biggest weaknesses, which are tox gas and fire. It leads to an interesting inversion of normal Rimworld play, where your colonists actually are expendable and you should expect them to die off and be replaced frequently. After all, the new ones don't care about wearing the gear the previous generation died in. Kanos fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 18:40
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VideoWitch posted:I've always found Tynan's insistence that Rimworld is not a game and is instead a "story simulator" weird considering how bad it is at being that and how that's not how the majority of the playerbase seems to engage with it, it's always felt to me that it's just an excuse so he doesn't have to balance things or do other things people expect for a game. Yeah the stories that Rimworld tells is your colonists die to an overpowered raid or to a plague you did nothing to earn but haven't teched into hospitals so everyone's dead. It's a micromanagement game, not a storytelling game. I also think Tynan is a ridiculously bad dev and terrible for the community that's pretty loyal to his game. It's over 100 bucks to buy Rimworld and all the DLCs. Royalty is a rip off of magic mods, Ideology was fine but should have really been a patched in thing instead of a 20 dollar DLC, and Biotech is also a rip off but done better than anything I saw come out of the community so I guess that's fine. The games never patched. It never goes on sale for more than 10% despite the continued attention to the game mainly being caused by free mods. He even recently jacked up the price and then put it on sale during the steam sales for an extra two dollars. There's so many obvious things the game needs that he just lets modders take care of instead of ever introducing it into the game which is a bit ridiculous. I don't know how the game has been out for over five years and he's never introduced a 1x2 door or sofa. From everything I've heard about him on insider stuff he's apparently a complete rear end in a top hat as well.
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Jan 28, 2024 19:34
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Jelly posted:Did you guys ever watch playthroughs by that Youtube streamer "The Noble Rambler"? I watch Adam vs. Everything for the challenges and super optimised vanilla runs. He plays without pausing so that might be up your alley. I like Mr. Samuel Streamer for the British, very manic super modded runs. He's a lot though, so I understand why people don't like him. Rhadamant does similar very modded and themed runs but he's super laid back and chill. I used to watch Decoherent but just kinda stopped because his runs tend to go on forever, like up to a 100 episodes so I lost interest. Pete Complete does simpler themed runs and is very story driven, with a really tight presentation that I like. If anyone has more recommendations I can always use more material to watch in the evening while doing other stuff.
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Jan 28, 2024 19:39
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Doltos posted:Yeah the stories that Rimworld tells is your colonists die to an overpowered raid or to a plague you did nothing to earn but haven't teched into hospitals so everyone's dead. It's a micromanagement game, not a storytelling game. I don't remember hearing about that price raised right before a sale thing. Are you sure that happened? 
QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 19:45
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lol what
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Jan 28, 2024 19:49
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QuarkJets posted:I don't remember hearing about that price raised right before a sale thing. Are you sure that happened? I meant the game was 30 dollars for the longest time, a sale came up, he jacked the price to 35 dollars and put it on sale for 10% for a savings of more than 2 dollars before the sale started
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Jan 28, 2024 19:50
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i feel like i get a lot of (imagination) stories going, but i also dont play optimally and roll with everything but a full camp wipe
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Jan 28, 2024 19:52
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Jelly posted:lol what given that grow zone isn't a full field of potatoes, I'm guessing you turned off sowing at some point and had one stray corn plant there during the growing cycle
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Jan 28, 2024 20:29
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Doltos posted:I meant the game was 30 dollars for the longest time, a sale came up, he jacked the price to 35 dollars and put it on sale for 10% for a savings of more than 2 dollars before the sale started It was $30 when it was in Early Access, the price increased to $35 when it was officially released in 2018. It's possible that coincided with a sale but it's pretty standard for games to increase in price after EA
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Jan 28, 2024 20:59
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isndl posted:
I think I remember playing whatever mod that added the healing shamans and similarly dropping it when it got outdated. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it also added a nice road making event that I really liked. Every other road mod I've tried had too much going in terms of tech bloat and whatnot when I all I really want is to pay some friendly faction a lot of silver to create more roads so caravaning is easier.
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Jan 28, 2024 21:05
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Leal posted:I'd rather have less raiders but they get souped up with higher quality weapons/armor and bionics. Hell with genetics have them spawn with xenogerms that improve combat efficiency There is a mod called Compressed Raid that does this
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Jan 28, 2024 21:08
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Raids being giant hordes of suicidal fanatics generating out of nowhere and dashing themselves against your killbox because you have too many marble floors is the biggest issue I have with the "story generator" part. If it's not a game, you can't get much more game-y than that. Still, I'm not sure how you'd really fix that without totally reworking a large chunk. Mods like Combat Readiness Check, Faction Resources etc all end up making the game easier, and any sort of "realistic" behavior from human factions clashes against the relative ease of setting up elaborate deathtraps. Ideally you'd have something where you were encouraged to engage in tactical urban firefights against interesting opponents, have ways to interact on the diplomacy/map level to deal with threats, and for there to be positive and negative consequences to wiping out a few hundred tribal raiders.
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Jan 28, 2024 21:15
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QuarkJets posted:It was $30 when it was in Early Access, the price increased to $35 when it was officially released in 2018. It's possible that coincided with a sale but it's pretty standard for games to increase in price after EA I remember buying the game in 2020 for 30 dollars I don't think that's true. I could be wrong but the point remains the game without mods isn't maintained enough by the creator for it to be a 100 dollar game. Ideology and Royalty aren't worth their DLC price tags and the creator doesn't patch his game unless it's to make defending against a raid more of a ballache.
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Jan 28, 2024 21:41
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Complications posted:given that grow zone isn't a full field of potatoes, I'm guessing you turned off sowing at some point and had one stray corn plant there during the growing cycle I have a corn field but it's been growing forever, isn't nearby, and isn't close to harvest yet. All I can think of is that dude was carrying a piece of corn from storage and dropped it there for some reason.
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Jan 28, 2024 21:48
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Taeke posted:I watch Adam vs. Everything for the challenges and super optimised vanilla runs. He plays without pausing so that might be up your alley. adam vs everything does runs where the scenarios are edited to make all his pawns roll industrious tough super immune (at least on every one that i clicked on) and idk that hella undermines the max difficulty. i get why he does it, but it just kills his stuff for me
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Jan 28, 2024 22:06
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Doltos posted:I remember buying the game in 2020 for 30 dollars I don't think that's true. I could be wrong but the point remains the game without mods isn't maintained enough by the creator for it to be a 100 dollar game. Ideology and Royalty aren't worth their DLC price tags and the creator doesn't patch his game unless it's to make defending against a raid more of a ballache. For the entirety of 2020 the game was $35 on Steam, except for the occasional sale where it dipped to $31. Don't take my word for it, here's the data: https://isthereanydeal.com/game/rimworld/history/?shop%5B%5D=steam&generate=Select+Stores
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Jan 28, 2024 22:15
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Doltos posted:I remember buying the game in 2020 for 30 dollars I don't think that's true. I could be wrong but the point remains the game without mods isn't maintained enough by the creator for it to be a 100 dollar game. Ideology and Royalty aren't worth their DLC price tags and the creator doesn't patch his game unless it's to make defending against a raid more of a ballache. Obviously the question of what's "worth" what is completely subjective so you can think whatever you want, but it's been entirely worth it for me. And the part about patching is entirely made up lol. He has been doing literally the exact opposite of what you are saying for the game's entire lifetime. Every patch adds more ways to customize difficulty and play however you want.
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Jan 28, 2024 22:54
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I want to point out that Rimworld of Magic did not invent the concepts of magic, spellcasting, or level-based progression. I don't think anyone is arguing that it did but "Royalty is a ripoff of Rimworld of Magic" as a statement feels like it's trying to create that implication. I don't think that Royalty stole anything from RoM
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Jan 28, 2024 23:12
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I will say that Rimworld and its expansions probably represents some of the best playtime-to-dollar values I've ever had in gaming, even paying at full price.
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Jan 28, 2024 23:18
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Checking my PayPal receipt, I paid $30 in November 2015, representing less than one cent per hour play time in the last 8 years. Also going from $30 to $35 is significantly less than inflation.
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Jan 28, 2024 23:49
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moot the hopple posted:I will say that Rimworld and its expansions probably represents some of the best playtime-to-dollar values I've ever had in gaming, even paying at full price. What really impresses me about Rimworld is just how dang stable it is. I have frequently just gone into the workshop, clicked on 50 mods, spent 30 seconds dragging Hugslib to the top of the load order, and then just paid no attention whatsoever to the rest of the mod order, and everything just… works. That is no trivial feat and there’s a ton of unglamorous work that goes into making a game be just that moddable, and it’s absolutely the reason why the game is just so immortal.
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Jan 29, 2024 00:53
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I've always wondered why Rimworld is the only game I'm aware to have a third party mod manager that has an intelligent load order autosort. I know not all game care about mod load order but everytime I have to load up Irony (paradox mod manager) I die a little inside.
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Jan 29, 2024 00:58
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Installing 250+ mods for Rimworld and having them all work together in nearly perfect harmony versus installing 30 mods for a Bethesda game and having to troubleshoot for a couple of hours to figure out what's causing the game to gently caress up.
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Jan 29, 2024 01:02
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It was $27 at 20% off for the recent steam sale. Thats when I snagged it.
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Jan 29, 2024 01:05
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I have just shy of 3000 hours in Rimworld, there is no earthly way in which I could even dream of criticizing my dollars-to-fun ratio.
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Jan 29, 2024 01:08
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SniperWoreConverse posted:Nope vanilla. I expected some kinda map to load and the parley to happen, or maybe a set of options, but it seems to just be based on the skill of whoever you send and your only concern is if they get jumped on the way there or back, or maybe bump into friendly traders. I checked the wiki and you're right, I guess I just haven't seen that quest pop in ages. It looks like you do get something more involved if you roll a disastrous outcome and trigger combat.  Doltos posted:Yeah the stories that Rimworld tells is your colonists die to an overpowered raid or to a plague you did nothing to earn but haven't teched into hospitals so everyone's dead. It's a micromanagement game, not a storytelling game. It's a storytelling game in that the game is about spinning plates until you can't keep everything spinning and it all starts crashing down. Some people do genuinely enjoy the narrative that forms out of that, while others play it for the colony builder side instead. And that's fine! I lean towards the latter myself but there are still times when I see a pattern forming or I think Randy really hates someone in particular. As far as development goes, Tynan has been relatively okay - DLC pricing in aggregate sucks, but that's always been a problem with the DLC financial model and he's very accommodating with them individually (he manually lowered regional prices below Steam's recommended prices in several regions). There was good update pacing and responsiveness to community requests on every DLC release, like when Ideology came out and he added fluid and inactive modes via patch. We're in a dry spell right now but a lot of bugs that were reported and flagged as fixed which means they're close to a big update and looking to drop it all at once rather than maintain two code bases. The relative value of each DLC has been argued over several times but I think in general it's fine. Royalty is the 'magic' update, but also introduces a whole lot of great bionics and equipment. Ideology helps enable all kinds of unique play styles. Biotech is like three updates in one (which is why he bumped the price by $5). Should they have been free updates to the base game instead? Maybe, but there aren't many games that have been able to sustain themselves off completely free updates for a decade and they all tend to be multi-platform launches while Rimworld barely has a Steam Deck port. I don't know his financials, but he's not working alone and he's got both bills and employees to pay. I can't comment on his personal character, but he's shown a willingness to reverse some of the more boneheaded decisions which is somehow all too rare these days.
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Jan 29, 2024 02:12
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QuarkJets posted:I want to point out that Rimworld of Magic did not invent the concepts of magic, spellcasting, or level-based progression. I don't think anyone is arguing that it did but "Royalty is a ripoff of Rimworld of Magic" as a statement feels like it's trying to create that implication. I don't think that Royalty stole anything from RoM Modders did show that rimworld is more interesting and fun with magical bullshit than without. And that building a temple and sacrificing prisoners to Cthulhu makes for more compelling gameplay/stories/etc than just building a ship. But maybe more importantly they created a lot of examples of what not to do. So maybe it isn't a coincidence that rimworld expansions have all been fairly solid additions instead of each one being littered with halfbaked ideas that would then require a months-long development cycle to fix or scrap.
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Jan 29, 2024 03:14
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Oh god, I downloaded Dub's Hygiene, started a new game and now my pawns are close to breaking because I'm just now realizing they've been really holding it for several days now, what do I do!?!? 
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Jan 29, 2024 04:13
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:Oh god, I downloaded Dub's Hygiene, started a new game and now my pawns are close to breaking because I'm just now realizing they've been really holding it for several days now, what do I do!?!? Slap down a few latrines in individual cubbies (1 for every two or three or so pawns is fine), a few wash tubs in other cubbies (likewise), a well, and designate a rubbish zone for waste a good distance away from the well. None of this needs to be heated. This will tide you over until you can afford to build some proper plumbing. Dubs is super easy.
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Jan 29, 2024 04:20
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Doltos posted:
This is just a nutty criticism, Tynan has some issues as a person with a certain set of cultural and political values and a little of that expresses in Rimworld's content but technically, for what it is, the game is the loving gold standard for how a developer should deliver a game.
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Jan 29, 2024 04:31
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Taeke posted:I watch Adam vs. Everything for the challenges and super optimised vanilla runs. He plays without pausing so that might be up your alley. mr samuel streamer puts the story generation in rimworld.
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Jan 29, 2024 04:41
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