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I liked CK2 artifacts and societies way more. I loved joining the Hermetic order and making a bunch of really unique and interesting artifacts. I also loved say writing books in CK2. I think because stats are less inflated in CK2 the bonuses from artifacts are much more meaningful when I feel way more powerful in general in CK3 before artifacts even come into play, and they just send you even further over the top of the ai.
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Jan 26, 2024 18:23
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Dwesa posted:I think they said they don't want to do secret societies in CK3, their "floorplan for the future" mentions nomads, MRs, imperial mechanics etc. though Right, I'm hoping those systems are significantly reworked before they come to CK3. Straight-porting them from 2 would be bad not just because it'd get people accusing them of re-selling them the same game, but also because those mechanics were pretty awful.
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Jan 26, 2024 18:30
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Magil Zeal posted:Should they, though? Societies for me alternated between being annoyingly disruptive (secret religions) and trait farms (everything else). I think the game is better without them. Yes, I personally think they should add those things in with options to turn off supernatural events like in CK2. The overworld travel in CK3 would work good with societies IMO. Everything in these games is a trait or skill farm if you want it to be or an RP challenge if that's how you want to play it. They were already basically selling the same game with 3d portraits, easier expansion and no extras at release.
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Jan 26, 2024 18:36
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gurragadon posted:Yes, I personally think they should add those things in with options to turn off supernatural events like in CK2. The overworld travel in CK3 would work good with societies IMO. Everything in these games is a trait or skill farm if you want it to be or an RP challenge if that's how you want to play it. They were already basically selling the same game with 3d portraits, easier expansion and no extras at release. That seems like a lot to ask, especially now that you're suggesting these ported features should be fully integrated into CK3-exclusive systems like travel. And it gets even more work when we talk about other things they may want to rework for CK3, like republics. We already got a slow enough roll of content, I imagine it'd be even slower if they wanted to keep everything from CK2. I'd much rather they just dumped the stuff that sucked and start fresh. With that said, I don't think it's wrong to say that the playstyles in CK3 aren't varied enough and could use some spicing up. They tried at release with clan versus feudal, but it didn't go nearly far enough. Legacy of Persia thankfully has done a good amount to alleviate that particular divide, so I'm hopeful that their new takes on other systems are going to be better. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jan 26, 2024 |
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Jan 26, 2024 18:51
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Magil Zeal posted:That seems like a lot to ask, especially now that you're suggesting these ported features should be fully integrated into CK3-exclusive systems like travel. And it gets even more work when we talk about other things they may want to rework for CK3, like republics. We already got a slow enough roll of content, I imagine it'd be even slower if they wanted to keep everything from CK2. I'm kind of the opinion that I'm going to like CK3 a lot in 5 years or so if they keep releasing stuff. It's just hard to recommend to people when CK2 is free to play with a $5 a month subscription. It might be a lot to ask but I think the way Paradox releases expansions demands a stronger product at release. Or a willingness to completely blow up the game and change it like they did with release Stellaris vs. now. I don't see them changing CK3 in such a large way though.
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Jan 26, 2024 19:08
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Eimi posted:I liked CK2 artifacts and societies way more. I loved joining the Hermetic order and making a bunch of really unique and interesting artifacts. I also loved say writing books in CK2. I think because stats are less inflated in CK2 the bonuses from artifacts are much more meaningful when I feel way more powerful in general in CK3 before artifacts even come into play, and they just send you even further over the top of the ai. Its mostly the new lifestyle perks system, I suppose At least some of the trees are very OP and can get you superman stats without any artifacts or even great inheritable traits
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Jan 26, 2024 22:39
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Elias_Maluco posted:Its mostly the new lifestyle perks system, I suppose Yet the AI's rarely gets as high as the player's stats, I don't know how that happens.
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Jan 26, 2024 22:57
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I guess they don’t pick the right ones? There’s a lot of garbage there too In my experience the AI seems to go trough all trees from whatever the character is specialized on, while the player can pick the most powerful perks from all types, or whatever will help at the moment The AI just ain’t very good at that, just like it’s mostly terrible at edit: and some, for example that one who gives stats from your council members, require some extra work to be juiced to the max, which the AI won’t do either Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 26, 2024 |
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Jan 26, 2024 23:27
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Elias_Maluco posted:I guess they don’t pick the right ones? There’s a lot of garbage there too Yeah the AI will always seem to just put powerful vassals randomly on the council, which is one of the reasons AI realms tend to be so weak and messy.
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Jan 27, 2024 00:51
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Sometimes the AI doesn't even go through all of their lifestyle trees associated with their education; I assume it's personality-based. Like when I took over as a 60-year old character once and they only had one of their three trees filled out and a ton of points sitting unallocated.
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Jan 27, 2024 22:17
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Finished my first persian struggle last night Not a bad experience but not so special either, I guess. Like in Iberia, the struggle itself gets tiring after a while. And it ends up being mostly noise over the game. You get a few special rules changing from time to time and a fuckload of extra notifications. I mostly did my game how I would anyway, except I became persian and a secret zoroastrian. And than one day the game tells me I can end it and so I did, with that third option which is probably the easiest one. The rewards here too are very great, but now I have huge overpowered empire that’s already the strongest in the world by far and little reason to go on. I think I’ll just play until I have 100% of the empire and can take that special decision The new clan mechanics disappointed me a bit, to be honest. I very rarely actively interacted with it besides pressing the decisions it allows, which are all just good and so you should use than whenever available. The house unity thing was stuck on harmonious or whatever is the rightmost one during the whole game, except the very early beginning, without me doing anything thinking of that. I ended up just forgetting it, most of the time, except when I remembered to go there press the decision buttons Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jan 28, 2024 |
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Jan 28, 2024 12:23
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 Honestly, that post feels very appropriate for the game.
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Jan 28, 2024 22:19
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Despite the doom and gloom in the thread I'm enjoying my latest game, though I also haven't played in a year or two. Started as the tribal count in Darfur. Vaguely intend to reform the Kushite religion (basically ancient Egyption religion as it managed to survive to the 800s) and take Egypt back and do some culture shenanigans (hybrid with Egyption or Nubian or something). Starting king does the normal tribal stuff, forms the kingdom of Darfur and pops out a late daughter after two sons. That's when I realise these guys are female preference, huh, cool. Queen Kizmir takes the throne at 11, gets through an easy regency of her doting content brother and comes out quite well, martial education and high learning. Warrior queen goes to town solidifying the realm and expanding out towards Egypt. Picks up three holy sites and gets some religious events randomly and falls in love with her priest shaman concubine. A few pilgrimages later and she's hard on religion, taking the fight to the Coptics and Muslims and hits max on piety. Reforms the religion (swaps suicide for warmonger and makes it gender equal to align better with the female preference inheritance). Becomes the saviour of the religion. She had two sons before taking a vow of celibacy to save the religion in a court event and I've no idea how succession will go (I don't even bother looking or doing anything about it anymore, way more fun). She's in her late 50s now and after a few successful raids of Egypt has a full treasury. I don't know if to make a drive for Egypt now or leave it for her heirs. I think I'll do the switch to feudal after taking the delta for maximum thunderdome chances - being weak for a while, unhappy vassals, angry Muslim neighbours. Having a blast so far. The realms an absolute mess, counties handed out randomly, parts of it absolutely hate her, parts love her. Half her holdings are the wrong type, as are half her vassals. Neighbours are the same. She's a devisive ruler. Not trying to be good and just ignoring wide parts of the game (she has a low stewardship score so I build something occasionally, usually war related etc) makes it way more fun. Cast_No_Shadow fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 21:53
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I've been having a lot of fun with the After the End mod. While there are parts that are still being worked on (California in particular), there's enough variety in place to make jumping around a lot of fun.
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Jan 29, 2024 23:21
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Despite the doom and gloom in the thread I'm enjoying my latest game, though I also haven't played in a year or two. Sometimes I think the thread gets more negative on the game than it really deserves, it's a very good game. The ability to customize my own religion/culture makes it pretty much impossible to go back to CK2; I have never run a CK3 campaign where I didn't utilize those mechanics.
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Jan 30, 2024 00:19
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its a deec game. it's been literally broke in macos, steamos and other linuxes for the last two fuckin months, so its the usual paradox qa going on there
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Jan 30, 2024 00:21
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Starting in the Darfur area and moving back to Egypt and reforming along the way was one of my favorite playthroughs. If you start as Nubian you get to deal with the mess that is a matriarchal society with a male dominated religion.  But yeah I love this game I just think the ways its good haven't changed that much since launch and those of us who have been playing for years now don't really have a lot new to say about what's good so the 'ugh this is annoying' filters through a lot more. SlothBear fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 00:54
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Yeah it's been consistently their second-best reviewed game since launch and held its playerbase very well. For whatever issues (some) people here have, it's definitely found and satisfied its own audience. If they pump out a couple strategy mechanics-based expansions next it'll probably come around for some of the other folks, too.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:24
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At this point I want to compare CK3 and Valheim. Both extremely solid foundations that still feel incomplete and underdeveloped years after the initial release.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:36
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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the only reason anyone knows what about valheim is that it hit during the perfect point of the pandemic when standards were lowest, its a true dogshit game with nothing going on
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Jan 30, 2024 02:38
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valheim's a two-man dealio, iirc. paradox is much smaller than peeps estimation of it is, but it's still a lot bigger
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Jan 30, 2024 02:44
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I also imagine that if Paradox were to write out how much work has gone into the expansions so far it’s probably way more than the game gets credit for. I get it, ultimately that may not really matter to the consumer, but, like, I wouldn’t be surprised if the (free) update to cultures back with Royal Court was more actual dev work than entire CK2 expansions. And I’m sure travel stuff was a massive undertaking.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:08
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bob dobbs is dead posted:its a deec game. it's been literally broke in macos, steamos and other linuxes for the last two fuckin months, so its the usual paradox qa going on there Well, gently caress. I thought my laptop was just acting even older and shittier than it is, but it turns out it's a known bug?
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Jan 30, 2024 03:32
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/game-is-crashing-after-1-11-0-on-macos.1609128/
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Jan 30, 2024 03:33
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its almost certainly a vicious race condition so they may literally have like 2-4 peeps capable of fixing such a thing among their hundreds of devs. or need to contact outside help and do all that rigamarole computers are pieces of poo poo. os kernel knowledge is unironically within the remit of professional necessity for crud blub online webapp companies. video games have a particularly unenviable make-the-computer-do-things / money-to-pay-the-peeps-who-know-how-to-appease-the-omnissiah-and-make-the-computer-do-things ratio.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:35
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Antigravitas posted:
Until they remove access to perfect information concerning stress, and to a lesser extent, opinion - the game will continue to feel samey across different runs. Having a stronger RNG over time effect instead of clear breakpoints would also help instead of Stress being just a binary mechanic where there are clear consequences and deadlines.
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Jan 30, 2024 06:58
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I do not appreciate you glossing over the relevatory dream part.
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Jan 30, 2024 10:54
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bob dobbs is dead posted:its a deec game. it's been literally broke in macos, steamos and other linuxes for the last two fuckin months, so its the usual paradox qa going on there So thats whats happening? Ive been getting a lot of crashes in linux, to the point the game is barely playable right now
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Jan 30, 2024 10:58
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The game is good, and I also cannot go back to CK2, even though I miss some things. CK3 is a superior game in most aspects This feeling of disappointment we see here, specially from CK2 veterans, does have its reasons, though: 1- the evolution of the game feels quite slower than it was with CK2. edit: maybe is just an impression, but it does feels that by the same time CK2 changed/expanded a lot more trough patches and DLCs 2- while the base game is more rich and complex than CK2, the experience still feels a lot more samey trough different runs and different places 3- the game is a lot easier, in almost everything Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 11:10
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MikeC posted:Until they remove access to perfect information concerning stress, and to a lesser extent, opinion - the game will continue to feel samey across different runs. Having a stronger RNG over time effect instead of clear breakpoints would also help instead of Stress being just a binary mechanic where there are clear consequences and deadlines. Why would hiding stress values make the game feel less ‘samey’? Hidden information would make the game more frustrating to play, and it’s not like the stress events themselves would change. For me, ‘sameyness’ derives from the ‘same’ strategy being generically good and applicable. Anybody anywhere can marry for good alliances, win wars, build a domain, and rig succession. At no point do you have to turn your brain on for any of that
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Jan 30, 2024 16:15
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scaterry posted:Why would hiding stress values make the game feel less ‘samey’? Hidden information would make the game more frustrating to play, and it’s not like the stress events themselves would change. Yeah, stress at least is likely one of the less bad perfect information problems in these games! That said, the problem I see with putting it that way is that those are generically good things in the situation the game is trying to simulate! What would ideally happen is that elements of your particular situation or the region you're playing in make those four things harder or at least different. Part of that can come from regional or governmental mechanics that reflect the way people in those areas actually did those things or at least make them interestingly different, but another part of it is that it's way too easy to win wars (in part because you know too much about your enemies' strength and only ever start wars you can win) or marry for good alliances (in part because you have a full view of the marriage market at any given moment, AIs seem way too willing to marry down, and alliances are automatic even for offensive purposes), or rig succession (in part because it's so easy to breed super heirs and know they're going to be super heirs, you can be pretty confident they're going to survive to succeed unless you're taking stupid but thematic risks with them, and any spare claimants you have are easily marginalized) I'm glad the game is more accessible and frankly, so much of the difficulty in CK2 came from the UI that I'm kinda glad it's gone. Yes, difficulty through obscurity of information and coordination problems is realistic to the challenges medieval rulers would have faced, in much the same way that so many stories we tell that are fundamentally about miscommunications kinda ring false in the era of the Internet. But it didn't make for a broadly fun or accessible game, and I can mod a lot of these things out of the new game to make it more fun for me personally while accepting that the main release is going to be more tailored for other people, and enjoying the parts of it that I like. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 17:09
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CK2's problem was perhaps not so much the transparency or obscurity of the values, as such, so much as often having no fore-warning about potential consequences. Depending on the DLC, you'd get event that told you what you were gambling for and your rough odds, or it would just tell you “low chance of getting screwed and no, we're not going to tell you how”. CK3 maybe went a bit too far in the exact opposite direction since all that's unknown is the die roll, which isn't always in play. Everything is always known, and always explained. Everything is a currency to spend known amounts of. More randomness wouldn't really change much. A bit more obscurity would just make the decision a bit more unclear, but there's arguably some room to strike a balance where the granularity of your stats is reduced — e.g. rather than knowing your stress on a 3x100 point scale, you'd only be shown the values on a 5- or 10-point one, rounded whichever way. Or just make the decisions more complicated, with more potential outcomes to choose between so you have to pick and choose more. …also, bring back the outliner and message filter.
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Jan 30, 2024 17:42
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not enough deterministic chaos in the game mechanics, imo. you get some positive lyapunov exponents, you get some topological mixing, then you have wild unpredictability while still somehow being determinism. gamedevs wouldn't know a positive lyapunov exponent if it hit them in their face and they can't handle it
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Jan 30, 2024 17:47
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Dallan Invictus posted:I'm glad the game is more accessible and frankly, so much of the difficulty in CK2 came from the UI that I'm kinda glad it's gone That I dont know. By the end of the CK2 dev, information was made much more available and clearer than before. And though CK3 is still better in general, CK2 had the ledger with all kinds of detailed info about everything, including things that we dont have so easy on CK3 But in any case, I dont think thats the main reason CK3 is easier. In my experience it boils down too: - AI was much more aggressive in CK2. In CK3 often I have huge neightbours supposedly hostile that wont try to attack me for some reason and just wait for me to be stronger than they and attack them instead - AI was better at holding its realm stable in CK2 - AI is much worst at fighting wars (mainly because its bad at MaA) - eugenics much easier and more effective on CK3 - in Ck3, some lifestyle perks and dynasty perks are very OP and the AI is bad at picking them
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Jan 30, 2024 18:22
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https://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings/posts/pfbid0PBTy7a6DzrUxviG6XwXfTMQiYHrvnRi4rwqFGDmVwwV1Q6GdtdL4YWwoPEJvm5nZl please no more vikings, there are other things in the world y'know.
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Jan 30, 2024 20:17
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Is not that, fortunately 
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Jan 30, 2024 20:23
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I will say that the music talk led me to downloading a mod to use CK2 music instead, and I greatly appreciate the change.
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Jan 30, 2024 23:17
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VIKING GODS
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Jan 31, 2024 00:24
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Elias_Maluco posted:Is not that, fortunately My guess would be this means they're counting down to the next DD when they'll announce the next big thing. Nifty.
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Jan 31, 2024 03:35
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SirPhoebos posted:I will say that the music talk led me to downloading a mod to use CK2 music instead, and I greatly appreciate the change. youtube has some pretty decent music plus ambience videos from games with better sound tracks which also work great. cryo chamber is a good channel if you're playing hearts of iron.
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