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Given the Vees' personalities, I think they all basically cover for each other- just powerful enough and just useful enough that no one else considers it worth the hassle to try to mess with them. Valentino seems to be a good enough manipulator to smooth other Vox's tantrums and probably liaise between them, while Velvette has just enough social skills to be the face to the other Overlords. It's a probably toxic relationship of toxic people, but it's clearly a pragmatic partnership and they recognise it as such. Like a clique of high school bullies directing their venom outwards. Alastor and Lucifer's musical pissing match is interesting; they both come off as passive-aggressively covering up their own insecurities. Alastor basically presenting himself as the steadfast ally who's helped Charlie all the way, and whatever can be said, he's certainly been more cooperative (and far more polite) than can be expected of 99% of Hell, let alone Overlords, and Lucifer as pretty much a deadbeat dream-crushing dad showing up trying to buy his way back into her life now she's proved him wrong. And of course Lucifer's interesting. I get big manic depressive vibes from him, just to start with.
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Jan 29, 2024 09:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Alastor and Lucifer's musical pissing match is interesting; they both come off as passive-aggressively covering up their own insecurities. Alastor basically presenting himself as the steadfast ally who's helped Charlie all the way, and whatever can be said, he's certainly been more cooperative (and far more polite) than can be expected of 99% of Hell, let alone Overlords, and Lucifer as pretty much a deadbeat dream-crushing dad showing up trying to buy his way back into her life now she's proved him wrong. I will note, Alastor wasn't letting on during the whole thing, but it seemed to me that Lucifer really got under his skin by being there. You can see it in (relatively) subtle ways, most obviously how quickly Alastor skipped the verbal sparring and went straight to "gently caress you." That's why he lost his cool with Husk. That's why he felt the need to show out on the loan sharks. Regardless of who has his soul on lock, I don't even think this was about that. At least not directly. He does not like not being perceived as the most powerful person in the room. He's insecure. And the power hierarchy got put on display in full during his and Lucifer's song. Even if you don't take what's happening in those as literally occurring, the imagery paints a picture. Lucifer tosses around Alastor like a play thing during his verse while Alastor can't do the same to him. Alastor trap doors Lucifer once, yes, but Lucifer was humiliating him throughout his verse.
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Jan 29, 2024 09:52
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Adder Moray posted:I will note, Alastor wasn't letting on during the whole thing, but it seemed to me that Lucifer really got under his skin by being there. You can see it in (relatively) subtle ways, most obviously how quickly Alastor skipped the verbal sparring and went straight to "gently caress you." That's why he lost his cool with Husk. That's why he felt the need to show out on the loan sharks. Lucifer did also emphasize his power and Alastor notably went for the loyalty angle - he knew he couldn't compete in the power department even if he wanted to. Its entirely possible that without Mimzy's timely and rude interruption, Alastor could've accidentally pushed one too many of Lucifer's buttons and gotten in a lot of trouble, even if Charlie would've intervened to stop Lucifer from outright killing him. I really want to see the inevitable scene where Alastor can't outsmart or overpower an opponent - as in he will lose against someone else - and how he'll react to it. I think that'll be the moment when he loses his smile for a bit.
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Jan 29, 2024 10:35
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Also interesting since, well, Alastor drat well knows who Lucifer is, 'big fan', and all, and he's helping his drat daughter- sooner or later, he was quite likely going to meet the big guy (so to speak) himself under some circumstances or another, very likely almost uniquely friendly ones. He must have had time to think about what he'd do and say. That it still got to him says something or other. I think you're right that he really can't deal with not being the most powerful and scariest thing in the room, and even if he knows he can't exactly compete with the Prince of Darkness himself, his instincts are still to make a display of power.
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Jan 29, 2024 10:57
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Adder Moray posted:I will note, Alastor wasn't letting on during the whole thing, but it seemed to me that Lucifer really got under his skin by being there. You can see it in (relatively) subtle ways, most obviously how quickly Alastor skipped the verbal sparring and went straight to "gently caress you." That's why he lost his cool with Husk. That's why he felt the need to show out on the loan sharks. Yeah, Alastor gives me a bit of homelander vibes. He is strong and scary as gently caress and puts on a good game but if put him against any other big hero from some other universe he would lose badly. Alastor can beat the poo poo out of or intimidate a lot of demons but if he would probably lose to someone like stolas and that dudes a failson who likes words.
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Jan 29, 2024 11:38
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Now that I think about it, Alastor going "hey, remember how I fixed that clog today" after Lucifer's bombastic showcasing of his power and influence is kind of pathetic. Like that's the best example you could conjure up, really?
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Jan 29, 2024 13:42
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Diabetic posted:I'm almost 100% certain we're getting angels above Sera, her being scared proves it, and even in Lucifer's songs he shows monolithic angels which will probably be the equivalent of Archangels like Michael, Uriel, Gabriel, Raphael. Probably no God outside of maybe an unknown figure, but definitely a step above Sera. Archangels are near the bottom of Angelic hierarchy in almost all sources. Seraphim, which Sera and Emily are introduced as, are at the top in most sources, though not all. Depending on the source you use, there's between seven and twelve ranks of angels. Angels are at the bottom, then either archangels or sometimes principalities. Sometimes they never use the rank of angel or archangel. Later people started messing it up, and just had archangels at the top and angels below them. Warden fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 13:54
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Was it this thread where someone brought up the idea that the deciding factor of whether you go to heaven or hell is whether you believe you should go there? Certainly the only thing which explains how Adam ended up in heaven.
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Jan 29, 2024 15:14
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Like with anything it's best to assume that they're playing loose with mythology and developing their own particular cosmology for the purposes of the story. Even Hell's heirarchy is still mostly known from inference from both shows and some questionable stream lore at this point. We do know that cherubs seem to be equivalent to imps, (CHERUB and IMP and all) likely on the bottom of the heirarchy, clearly considered expendable and rightly terrified of any meaningful displeasure from the higher-ups. Given we briefly see Sera and Emily in avian form when they first appear, suspiciously close to Goetia, it seems possibly implied that Goetia are fallen angels too... and given their role in demonic society, it's likely seraphim are pretty high up too. Sera does after all know what's supposed to be very classified information.
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Jan 29, 2024 15:21
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So with episodes 5 and 6 i'm starting to feel like Hazbin is getting into stride. But I liked Helluva Boss better as it seemed to have more structure and let the plot thrive through it. Poison has been the best song so far. And I've got to assume that Lilith is the one who owns Alastor's soul at this point.
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Jan 29, 2024 15:26
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Though at the same time she also seemed concerned with the souls of herself and her daughter if they didn’t play ball, which seems to imply that even the Seraphim can be cast out
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Jan 29, 2024 15:31
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Larryb posted:Though at the same time she also seemed concerned with the souls of herself and her daughter if they didn’t play ball, which seems to imply that even the Seraphim can be cast out I think Sera and Emily are supposed to be sisters, but I'm not completely sure.
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Jan 29, 2024 15:33
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M_Gargantua posted:So with episodes 5 and 6 i'm starting to feel like Hazbin is getting into stride. But I liked Helluva Boss better as it seemed to have more structure and let the plot thrive through it. HB has way more freedom to make filler character episodes and doesnt fully have an over arching story more then "will they wont they" with stolas and blitzo and slowly unwrapping back stories and villian stuff.
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Jan 29, 2024 15:34
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SpiritOfLenin posted:I think Sera and Emily are supposed to be sisters, but I'm not completely sure. Actually I'm not really sure if they're related at all, her profile just calls Sera her "maternal figure". Either way, even they're not exempt from the chopping block it seems
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Jan 29, 2024 15:38
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Really hoping that by the end of the show we get the visual pun of Lucifer literally getting his piles and piles of ducks in a row as he gets his poo poo together.
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Jan 29, 2024 16:07
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Is there some deep Bible lore reason why Lucifer loves ducks so much?
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Jan 29, 2024 17:00
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Is there some deep Bible lore reason why Lucifer loves ducks so much? The fanbase is praying it jumps again to an "i".
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Jan 29, 2024 17:20
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You're going to have to explain that more. I am a nerd, and get the bit flip part, but not the pirate part or what word you're trying to vowel substitute.
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Jan 29, 2024 17:29
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M_Gargantua posted:You're going to have to explain that more. I am a nerd, and get the bit flip part, but not the pirate part or what word you're trying to vowel substitute. Was the best I could come up with 
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Jan 29, 2024 17:32
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He got his docks in a row (pirate ships) He got his ducks in a row (quack) He got his dicks in a row (hornt)
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Jan 29, 2024 17:32
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Asmodeus would probably get mad that his boss is encroaching upon his territory.
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Jan 29, 2024 17:34
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Is there some deep Bible lore reason why Lucifer loves ducks so much? I think it stems from the fact they're probably one of the few things he created that didn't get him shitcanned by the rest of heaven. Him showing it off to Charlie probably helped solidify them as something safe that he can like. But his constant attempts to improve or recreate them go no where because he's got depression brain. I read this really fascinating thread about dissociative depression and how it makes it extremely hard to follow conversation because the person is only registering every other word. If you look at Lucifer throughout the lens of he's trying but is dealing with the fact most of his brain has shut down his behavior makes a lot more sense.
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Jan 29, 2024 17:38
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I miss my wife alastor I miss her a lot I'll be back
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Jan 29, 2024 18:17
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What are the Vegas odds on Lilith being the series' BBEG?
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Jan 29, 2024 19:37
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Madurai posted:What are the Vegas odds on Lilith being the series' BBEG? I mean, she certainly looks like a villain character just going by her design but we’ll see I guess https://hazbinhotel.fandom.com/wiki/Lilith Maybe she’ll be the focus of the next arc after Adam’s dealt with Larryb fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 19:47
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Madurai posted:What are the Vegas odds on Lilith being the series' BBEG? I think she's a red herring but that's just me.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:06
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Everyone looks like a villian character.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:07
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M_Gargantua posted:Everyone looks like a villian character. Except maybe Charlie yeah, good point Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 20:10
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Annointed posted:I miss my wife alastor I've come to make an announcement: Alastor is a punk rear end bitch motherfucker.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:37
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Funky Valentine posted:I've come to make an announcement: Alastor is a punk rear end bitch motherfucker. i mean yeah he kinda is. he is a big fish in the sinner circles but its more like he can gently caress up all the Vs and others but he probably runs into a much tougher fight when he hits any of the hellborn. i remember viv saying even stolas is more powerful and stolas isnt that high on the hiarchy.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:45
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I think Alastor has the highest chance of being the BBEG. It's clear he's only at the hotel because he has to be. He's being forced to play nice and he hates it.
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Jan 29, 2024 21:22
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Personally I think it's Eve because her complete absence is sus as poo poo.
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Jan 29, 2024 22:09
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:I think Alastor has the highest chance of being the BBEG. It's clear he's only at the hotel because he has to be. He's being forced to play nice and he hates it. I think he has taken a semi genuin liking to charlie but yeah, he is clearly there as either lilith puppet OR to get back on his feet and make longer term plans. keeping the kings weird nepo babies newest project open is easy.
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Jan 29, 2024 22:18
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Based on his little speech at the end of episode 5 it seems almost like he’s starting to buy into Charlie’s idea a bit as well (or it could have just been sarcasm)
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Jan 29, 2024 22:34
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I still maintain Alastor is only doing what he is doing to use Charlie against Lilith to get free from his leash. He told his friend to leave, if he was there purely for entertainment he might be willing to let her stay. This might be a slight indication that the hotel if not those in it have another purpose for him. ie: Using Charlie. Alastor comes off charming, only that charming personility can quickly fade if you tick him off. We saw that with Husk when Alastor went all meancing and threatening. Again, he was a serial killer. He's not a nice person.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:14
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True, if Lilith is the one holding Alastor’s leash as seems to strongly be implied so far then Charlie’s probably the best weapon he’s got against her (the latter has something of a strained relationship with her mom too if I remember the pilot correctly) so therefore he needs to stay on her good side by buttering up to her and defending her passion project. It definitely seems like he has some personal stake in all this at least even though he said he was just doing it for his own amusement
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Jan 30, 2024 02:28
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If you been wondering how the show is doing: https://twitter.com/TheCartoonBase/status/1752059586457043167 Seems like a winner. Have noticed actually discussion on it in places has been rather subdued compared to what was expected.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:16
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Larryb posted:I mean, she certainly looks like a villain character just going by her design but we’ll see I guess I find it really curious that we've seen her face in a lot of paintings now, but when she picked up Charlie in the memory of her visiting her dad, they didn't give her a face.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:06
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I hope when we meet Lilith in the flesh she has the big snake like in that painting.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:50
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I assume that the setup here is that the first season will be about establishing the Hazbin Hotel as an officially-sanctioned route to redemption from Hell to Heaven, with Adam's Exorcists being crushed from both sides by Charlie's demon alliance and Emily playing rabble-rouser among the angels. Later seasons will be based on that new status quo, with Charlie and her crew actually getting into the serious nitty-gritty of redeeming a rotating cast of sinners while staving off various malevolent forces dealing with the new, powerful kids on the block who are stealing their people. I assume that the Vees, as a pro-war faction, will profit from the battle in this season's finale, letting them expand their influence and become a much more serious threat. Or maybe just Velvette will. She seems like the only seriously competent one - Valentino is a rabid dog who can only be so far away from slipping the leash and getting put down, and Vox has a self-destruct button labelled 'Alastor' that he just can't help but keep on mashing. There's also Alastor pursuing his own sinister agenda, of course (I assume that Lilith 'recruited' him to help Charlie, and he's trying to twist that towards his own ends), and maybe Lute will survive in some capacity to become a persistent villain. It'd be somewhat interesting to find out exactly what her damage is - Adam's a pretty straightforward hedonistic sociopath, but she seems fuelled by pure, bottomless rage in a way that feels like it's got a story behind it.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:59
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