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live with fruit posted:If Jones was a borderline case it might be an interesting argument but he's not. And who cares if he "stopped trying?" Does every player have to grind themselves into dust for our entertainment? Yes
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Jan 29, 2024 19:28
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Just put Jones and Utley in
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Jan 29, 2024 19:37
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FlamingLiberal posted:Just put Jones and Utley in No poo poo. They were very important figures during their time in Major League Baseball. I feel like that should be more important than voters stress. While I'm not quite in the Kevin Goldstein camp of thinking it should just be the "Hall of Famous", I think players should be in the Hall of Fame if they were important to the story of baseball during their "era," with some exceptions (like I wouldn't put the entire '86 Mets in the Hall of Fame because some of them became famous for reasons other than on-the field narratives). I could make a career out of arguing about the Hall of Fame, (if someone wanted to pay me for my thoughts) though. tadashi fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 19:40
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live with fruit posted:If Jones was a borderline case it might be an interesting argument but he's not. And who cares if he "stopped trying?" Does every player have to grind themselves into dust for our entertainment?
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Jan 29, 2024 19:47
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tadashi posted:The only reason Jones isn't in the HoF is because a few chuds still think he used PEDs to hit 51 Hr that one season instead of understanding that elite athletes have peak years and going from ~35 HR pear year to peaking at 51 HR isn't that crazy of a leap, relatively speaking. I still remember Brady Anderson going off for 51 HR after a previous peak of 20ish. Just seemed like an outlier wunderyear that should've been a career highlight, but then BALCO, etc made a lot of folks just assume he doped.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:49
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bawfuls posted:low 60's WAR is in fact borderline 67 fWAR.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:00
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The only year Jones was truly bad was his year in LA, after that he was mediocre/replacement level but also was barely getting paid. After he left LA he signed a minor league contract with the Rangers so the narrative that he was phoning it in for the money doesn't even really make sense.
Popete fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 20:05
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Popete posted:The only year Jones was truly bad was his year in LA, after that he was mediocre/replacement level but also was barely getting paid. After he left LA he signed a minor league contract with the Rangers so the narrative that he was phoning it in for the money doesn't even really make sense. He also had two good years at 32-33.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:18
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https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1752045694930583927 Ohtani replacement just dropped!!!!!
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Jan 29, 2024 20:19
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Even if Andruw “stopped trying” (which is impossible to say for sure; it’s all vibes, the same poo poo that got Jim Rice and Jack Morris in), it doesn’t affect his good years (i.e., the years that actually make his case) at all It’s a dumb argument and you should stop making it. You don’t like him because he was bad for your team. That’s fine, but it’s not a real case in the slightest
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Jan 29, 2024 20:42
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mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1752045694930583927
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Jan 29, 2024 20:44
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FlamingLiberal posted:This is somehow still more than the Guardians have done
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Jan 29, 2024 20:48
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FlamingLiberal posted:This is somehow still more than the Twins have done
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Jan 29, 2024 20:53
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Popete posted:The only year Jones was truly bad was his year in LA, after that he was mediocre/replacement level but also was barely getting paid. After he left LA he signed a minor league contract with the Rangers so the narrative that he was phoning it in for the money doesn't even really make sense. live with fruit posted:He also had two good years at 32-33. He did manage a 120 OPS+ and the only positive dWAR of his post-ATL career in that White Sox season. For whatever it's worth, Fangraphs has him at negative (below average) defensive value that year. As has been pointed out, that season seemed to correspond to him getting back in shape somewhat.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:58
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What would be the purpose of phoning it in for years well getting paid barely above league minimum signing minor league contracts and even going to play in Japan (where he played quite well)? Ultimately it's a narrative argument and whether that matters is a personal opinion, if you shuffle the dates around and Jones worst seasons are at the beginning of his career we aren't even having this discussion.
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Jan 29, 2024 21:19
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Popete posted:What would be the purpose of phoning it in for years well getting paid barely above league minimum signing minor league contracts and even going to play in Japan (where he played quite well)? Baseball players are people, not random number generators producing statistically independent seasons over a period of years. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 21:29
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bawfuls posted:Yes because a guy who starts bad and then figures it out is showing growth and perseverance to push through his challenges to become a better player. A guy who starts great and then gets out of shape and bad is giving up. These behaviors are the inverse of one another and thus should elicit different reactions. Okay boomer
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Jan 29, 2024 21:32
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Yes baseball players are people and if you buy the narrative that he let himself get out of shape and have a single bad season does that invalidate the rest of his otherwise HoF worthy career? Given that he continued to play even on minor league contracts and for relatively little money seems to show that he cared about playing.
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Jan 29, 2024 21:46
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It was more than a single bad season
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Jan 29, 2024 21:48
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That was the only season he posted a negative bWAR, he was otherwise mediocre and being picked up as a primarily part time player.
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Jan 29, 2024 21:52
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sub-1 WAR seasons are also bad, imo
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Jan 29, 2024 21:55
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This discussion needs to phone it in
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Jan 29, 2024 22:15
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His knees were also some level of hosed from his last season with Atlanta through the end of his career.
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Jan 29, 2024 22:18
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > MLB N/V 2023-24 Offseason: The 280-pound Andruw (bWAR?)
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Jan 29, 2024 22:53
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What's important here is that some podcasters said I am right.
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Jan 29, 2024 23:02
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bawfuls posted:Seems to have popped off when another player hit Puig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMO1MXuDEw Interrupting Jones-chat to follow up on this, Jomboy did a breakdown and yeah across the two (lol) brawls that erupted in this game Puig was either hanging back or trying to play peacemaker until some guy decided to suckerpunch him resulting in Puig seeing red for a bit. Even after that once he's pulled off the guy who hit him Puig calms down pretty quick and seems to later be making up with players from the other team. Also it's a story with a happy ending in that the team that instigated both times by being salty about too much celebrating immediately blows it after the second scrum.
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Jan 29, 2024 23:23
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bawfuls posted:What's important here is that some podcasters said I am right. I can easily find 237 people that disagree with you though
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Jan 29, 2024 23:40
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mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1752045694930583927 he was worth 1 WAR in 65 games with Baltimore so sure, whatever
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Jan 29, 2024 23:57
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bees x1000 posted:he was worth 1 WAR in 65 games with Baltimore so sure, whatever that's almost 3 WAR over a complete season. not bad for league minimum
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Jan 30, 2024 01:12
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Twins traded Jorge Polancoo to Mariners for some minor keaguers
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Jan 30, 2024 02:39
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Twins traded Jorge Polancoo to Mariners for some minor keaguers Biggest get for the Twins is Gonzalez obviously, physically limited, short corner OF who can hit the poo poo out of the ball but who has some power questions. Could play in '24 for a big league club but probably '25. Topa's a good mid/high leverage reliever, Descalfani is whatever and Bowen is a lottery ticket with starter upside down the line.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:17
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Good move for Seattle imo
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Jan 30, 2024 04:29
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https://twitter.com/6jays_place/status/1752203902664016260 Sure why not
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Jan 30, 2024 06:44
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I'll always have a soft spot for Toronto and the Jays after a bunch of work trips there during my years at a startup. JT is great, hopefully he's got a little left in the tank for them. He has to keep playing because he's only a few weeks older than me, so I appreciate him persevering so that I don't have to feel too old just yet. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 06:56
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As a Toronto fan I have a soft spot for LA cuz I love me some Vin Scully. Not too sure what to think of this signing. Is he gonna be our full time DH or play some third? I was hoping for Soler for the DH spot
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Jan 30, 2024 07:46
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Justin Tuner is how old now, 45?
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Jan 30, 2024 07:55
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https://twitter.com/MikeBeauvais/status/1752331389884592535
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Jan 30, 2024 15:26
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https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1752338139018912082
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Jan 30, 2024 15:32
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lol
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Jan 30, 2024 15:32
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LonesomeCrowdedWest posted:Not too sure what to think of this signing. Is he gonna be our full time DH or play some third? I was hoping for Soler for the DH spot I read that he's going to be full-time DH with occasional starts at 1B/3B. I feel like the Jays are going to be mid again this year unless some guys have big bouncebacks.
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