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Grimnarsson posted:They sent Germany raw materials in the hope that then Germany couldn't afford to cut off that supply. They gave tours around weapons factories to German military attaches to dissuade them from attacking but instead convinced the Germans that they should attack sooner. Stalin and the USSR did everything they could to make it less likely that Germany would attack them. No, the Soviets were willing collaborators with the Germans because it suited their own imperialistic interests (such as the partition of poland, occupying the baltic states and a part of Romania, asking the Germans for help to fabricate evidence against their own, and so on). The Soviets gave stuff to the Germans because the Germans agreed to give the Soviets stuff in return, and then some.
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Jan 30, 2024 00:42
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 babby wants another middle east war
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Jan 30, 2024 00:52
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The Top G posted:Fascinating article but a small note - They haven’t used cadaver hgh in almost 40 years since it was linked to CJD It's mentioned in the post you quoted
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Jan 30, 2024 00:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:No, the Soviets were willing collaborators with the Germans because it suited their own imperialistic interests (such as the partition of poland, occupying the baltic states and a part of Romania, asking the Germans for help to fabricate evidence against their own, and so on). The Soviets gave stuff to the Germans because the Germans agreed to give the Soviets stuff in return, and then some. No. The Soviets knew full well that Hitler believed that Germany's future lay in conquering the food producing regions of the USSR. Only after it became evident that Britain and France were not interested in an alliance against Germany (for understandable and practible reasons it can be argued) did the USSR seek the next best thing ie a non-aggression pact with Germany.
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Jan 30, 2024 01:07
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I guess the Soviet Union was just drafting agreements to join the Axis in 1940 to show how much they hated the nazis edit: or maybe they were planning to join the Axis and secretly sabotage them from within? It could be anything really.
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Jan 30, 2024 01:11
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Grimnarsson posted:No. The Soviets knew full well that Hitler believed that Germany's future lay in conquering the food producing regions of the USSR. Only after it became evident that Britain and France were not interested in an alliance against Germany (for understandable and practible reasons it can be argued) did the USSR seek the next best thing ie a non-aggression pact with Germany. How does the Soviets invading Poland factor into this narrative?
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Jan 30, 2024 01:12
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rkd_ posted:Even if everything that happened was due to sheer incompetence, Israel is not hiding that they're capitalizing on this opportunity to commit genocide and to expand their controlled territory, including the settlements I referred to. As someone who doesn't put anything past the current Israeli government, making an 'evidence requiring' claim like 'Israel deliberately let Oct 7 happen so they could take more Gaza territory', and as soon as it's challenged (not even with facts but just with an emoji) being like 'well, uh, still, they definitely wanted to take more of Gaza! Can't deny that!' is really goddamned obnoxious. Not because you're being unfair to Netanyahu or whatever, just because it's rhetorically childish.
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Jan 30, 2024 01:22
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Grimnarsson posted:No. The Soviets knew full well that Hitler believed that Germany's future lay in conquering the food producing regions of the USSR. Only after it became evident that Britain and France were not interested in an alliance against Germany (for understandable and practible reasons it can be argued) did the USSR seek the next best thing ie a non-aggression pact with Germany. What do you mean "no"? Please engage with the points I made about the ways the Soviets voluntarily gave the Germans their full cooperation, and themselves benefited significantly from the Germans that goes well beyond a mere "non-aggression pact" to a de facto alliance of mutual interest and cooperation. Remember (as James Garfield mentions) that the Germans even went so far as to offer the Soviets entry into the Axis and only didn't pursue it when the Soviets insisted on the Balkans being their sphere of influence. It is highly inaccurate to claim that the M-R Pact was merely about placating the Germans and trying to avoid invasion, and additionally the Soviets had been negotiating with the Germans during the negotiations with the British and French. Also, the Soviets line of negotiation with the British and French can hardly be described as "we wanted to contain Germany by they refused!" The Soviets wanted concessions that would've given them a free hand in the Baltic States, Finland, which the British balked at.
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Jan 30, 2024 01:24
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Bar Ran Dun posted:How does the Soviets invading Poland factor into this narrative? Shoring up defences against Germany. Same with invading Finland, taking over the Baltics. Don't get me wrong, Poland was under no obligation to indulge Soviet security concerns by agreeing to an alliance between Britain, France and the USSR. The diplomatic environment of the late 1930s was a huge mess and was not a black and white issue.
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Jan 30, 2024 01:36
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Y'all couldn't avoid the bait huh?
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Jan 30, 2024 02:11
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Flying-PCP posted:As someone who doesn't put anything past the current Israeli government, making an 'evidence requiring' claim like 'Israel deliberately let Oct 7 happen so they could take more Gaza territory', and as soon as it's challenged (not even with facts but just with an emoji) being like 'well, uh, still, they definitely wanted to take more of Gaza! Can't deny that!' is really goddamned obnoxious. Not because you're being unfair to Netanyahu or whatever, just because it's rhetorically childish. I just said I found it highly improbably that the government, through incompetence, ignored so many warning signs to the point of ignoring even training drills, especially since these events gave certain members of the government the perfect opportunity to do what they have been wanting to do: genocide and displacement of the Palestinian people. A user called me out for being crazy and stated that it really was just incompetence. I then responded to that saying that, even if it was incompetence, those members of the government still used the results of that incompetence to push the ideals they had before October 7. That is not saying "still, they definitely wanted to take more of Gaza", it's saying that, after everything that happened and knowing what we do now, those members are still capitalizing on the situation to push their settlement plans. It's not just any member either, it's the Minister of National Security, among others. This event where they push for further settlements happened today.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:24
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Crain posted:Y'all couldn't avoid the bait huh? The current rules are to assume good faith. Grimnarsson posted:Shoring up defences against Germany. Same with invading Finland, taking over the Baltics. Don't get me wrong, Poland was under no obligation to indulge Soviet security concerns by agreeing to an alliance between Britain, France and the USSR. The diplomatic environment of the late 1930s was a huge mess and was not a black and white issue. So you think the Soviet Union was justified in invading other nations to satisfy their security concerns? You don’t think there were other historical reasons they would want invade to Finland, Poland and the Baltics?
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Jan 30, 2024 02:25
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Bar Ran Dun posted:The current rules are to assume good faith. And it is and always has been a stupid loving rule enacted by a wannabe charter school debate team chaperone.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:30
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rkd_ posted:I just said I found it highly improbably that the government, through incompetence, ignored so many warning signs to the point of ignoring even training drills, especially since these events gave certain members of the government the perfect opportunity to do what they have been wanting to do: genocide and displacement of the Palestinian people. Oh, it was definitely incompetence. They thought that the Hamas plans were overambitious wishful thinking that would certainly fail against the mighty Israeli military. It's not an uncommon pitfall for colonial occupations to fall into - it's quite easy for a highly-equipped modern military to underestimate the abilities of an insurgent force. Ben-Gvir spewing hate against the Palestinians isn't new or unusual, but all it really indicates is that the Israeli populace is racist enough to vote for literal Kahanists, and that Netanyahu is desperate enough that he needs their support to hold onto power. But Ben-Gvir isn't calling any shots anywhere near Gaza, as Netanyahu has intentionally sidelined him on that issue.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:33
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BonoMan posted:It's mentioned in the post you quoted This an A and B conversation, so C your way out before D and E come and knock you the F out.  Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The HGH that was injected into the patients that caused the Alzheimer's was harvested from a corpse and most HGH used today is synthetic - so you can keep pumping yourself with HGH without fear of getting Alzheimer's.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:41
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Crain posted:Y'all couldn't avoid the bait huh? Current moderation policy is that we must assume good faith by others and can be probated for not responding to a counterclaim, even if it's in bad faith. e:f;b
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Jan 30, 2024 02:43
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Bar Ran Dun posted:
Defense against imperialism, simply. We've got to take finland to tame it, as we hypothesize they could attack at any time, but this creates the new security concern of sharing a border with sweden. Ah, but, more solutions come to mind for satisfying these security concerns, now that I'm putting my mind to it,... [Many decades later] man what a loving mess we were forced to get into with Ukraine. No choice on that one. Still, no better defense against imperialism that we can think of, at least
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Jan 30, 2024 02:49
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Bar Ran Dun posted:So you think the Soviet Union was justified in invading other nations to satisfy their security concerns? I don't think they were justified in terms of being 'morally right'. I think they had geopolitical reasons for invading those countries. I don't think they had other historical reasons for invading Finland other than what they said they wanted, which amounts to security for Leningrad, having a capability for closing off the Gulf of Finland against Germany or Britain.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:51
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The Top G posted:This an A and B conversation, so C your way out before D and E come and knock you the F out. I can't tell if you're joking but yes you are proving my point lol. He mentioned that cadaver HGH isn't used anymore and instead it's synthetic and then you just said the same thing.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:55
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Grimnarsson posted:I don't think they were justified in terms of being 'morally right'. I think they had geopolitical reasons for invading those countries. I don't think they had other historical reasons for invading Finland other than what they said they wanted, which amounts to security for Leningrad, having a capability for closing off the Gulf of Finland against Germany or Britain. Why don’t you tell us about what happened Finland, Poland and the Baltics during the Russian revolution and aftermath of the first World War and subsequent Russian red / white civil war. Does Soviet invasion of those countries seem to be purely for “geopolitical security” within the larger historical context?
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Jan 30, 2024 02:57
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just put people who post bait on your ignore list, if they probe you for not responding to someone on your ignore list it'll probably cause the rules to get changed
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Jan 30, 2024 03:05
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Why don’t you tell us about what happened Finland, Poland and the Baltics during the Russian revolution and aftermath of the first World War and subsequent Russian red / white civil war. Well Finland did invade the nascent Soviet Russia, got the Petsamo region in the Peace of Tartu and harbored irredentist desires over Russian territory, but by the late 1930s increasingly less so, I would say. The Baltics, (ruled by their German aristocracy until 1917ish) like Finland were very much autonomous under the Russian Empire.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:11
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Grimnarsson posted:The Baltics, (ruled by their German aristocracy until 1917ish) like Finland were very much autonomous under the Russian Empire. Now you’re getting at it, these were all holdings of the Imperialist Russian Empire. You’ve also argued that the Soviets were invading the countries for their own security interests against Germany. This is a state occupying by force previously lost imperial holdings for its own interest.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:24
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Now you’re getting at it, these were all holdings of the Imperialist Russian Empire. Yes? That's clearly what happened.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:38
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There was a lot of complexity in European politics at the time, but the Soviet actions of the time can still be boiled down to revanchism. Stalin wanted to have security arrangements with at least some other great powers, but taking another grab for land the empire had lost in the revolution was non-negotiable, and everyone at the time was aware. That is the only real reason why he allied with the "lol race you to Poland" guy instead of the "How about we leave the borders where they are" guys. And even in the context of that he totally dropped the ball in his actual belief in and preparedness for Germany's inevitable betrayal. The Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union wasn't directly the fault of Stalin or any of his people. It wasn't an inside job, it wasn't a sudden event recognizable only in hindsight, and it in the end happened because Hitler wanted to follow up his successful conquest of Poland and France by wiping out Russia too. At the same time the size and resources of the invading army, and even the success of Hitler's previous consquests, were a shining monument to Stalin's own greed and arrogance. And yet, as pointed out in these other cases, he still came out on top, not only winning the war by switching alliances, but by taking eastern Europe right through half of Germany as a prize, with the price just being millions of the little pieces on his board. The fact that he turned his darkest hours around into doing what he'd wanted to do in the first place is also not evidence of Barbarossa being an inside job.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:57
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/codepink/status/1752008235429572957
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Jan 30, 2024 05:01
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Punchbowl has a source for what the DOJ subpoena of the House records is over. No details on which member of congress it is supposed to be targeting. https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1752088554186957266 Also, the child tax credit expansion/business tax credit extension bill is officially getting a floor vote. https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1752113848306356418
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Jan 30, 2024 05:12
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Bar Ran Dun posted:How does the Soviets invading Poland factor into this narrative? If you don't invade Poland most Hitlers will interpret that as aggression. You have to slowly invade Poland with reassuring body langauge until the Hitler is calm enough to send tanks across your border.
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Jan 30, 2024 05:18
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The Artificial Kid posted:It's resurfacing because somebody thinks deliberately refloating it will cause disruption and strife for Pelosi and the Democrats. Pelosi herself is causing disruption and strife when she suggested using the FBI to investigate protest organizers based on zero evidence
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Jan 30, 2024 06:40
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theCalamity posted:Pelosi herself is causing disruption and strife when she suggested using the FBI to investigate protest organizers based on zero evidence Is that an excuse for posting something from months ago pretending it just happened?
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Jan 30, 2024 06:41
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socialsecurity posted:Is that an excuse for posting something from months ago pretending it just happened? "Look, further evidence that Pelosi believes the only possible reason you can be against US foreign policy is because you are paid by a foreign actor shouldn't be used because its 4 months old" is a unique idea.
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Jan 30, 2024 07:28
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Josef bugman posted:"Look, further evidence that Pelosi believes the only possible reason you can be against US foreign policy is because you are paid by a foreign actor shouldn't be used because its 4 months old" is a unique idea. That's not what I said, I'm against the idea of posting things from months ago and pretending it just happened, this shouldn't be a controversial take.
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Jan 30, 2024 07:31
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socialsecurity posted:That's not what I said, I'm against the idea of posting things from months ago and pretending it just happened, this shouldn't be a controversial take. I don't think the poster was pretending it just happened, so much as they saw the tweet's claim it just happened and believed it. It's been cleared up that she said it in October, and personally I feel like it's still quite relevant to discuss, considering her current statements.
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Jan 30, 2024 07:36
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socialsecurity posted:That's not what I said, I'm against the idea of posting things from months ago and pretending it just happened, this shouldn't be a controversial take. Sure, but once the time line is cleared up it still establishes a pattern of behaviour that, shockingly, proves the utility in it being posted.
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Jan 30, 2024 07:37
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can we stick a camera up a protest's butt to see where its sourced from
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Jan 30, 2024 07:57
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Josef bugman posted:Sure, but once the time line is cleared up it still establishes a pattern of behaviour that, shockingly, proves the utility in it being posted. Would that pattern happen to be "calling out a protest organized by a group whose foreign funding is both well-demonstrated and which caused significant change in their directions of activism?" Since that's what it was that time. And if you want to say that you don't really care if they're a Chinese-backed group that moved toward mostly doing things in Chinese interests, that's fine. It just seems that every time something like that happens we have to go through this whole version of the Narcissist's Prayer from step one where it's absurd to suggest a message has foreign sources, and even if it's plausible there's no evidence, and even if there is it's honest and meant to effect positive change, and even if it isn't it didn't have much effect, and even if it did so what you CIA lover.
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Jan 30, 2024 09:29
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Raenir Salazar posted:For one, I assume Israel has some sort of legal framework which prevents or otherwise ostensibly restricts the government from infringing on the rights of citizens regarding expression and association, regardless of how distasteful it may be; which I doubt the ICJ has the authority to override a countries constitutional framework regarding. If the ICJ made a similar judgment against the US, given how strongly the US protects the 1A, it would be impossible for the US to enforce such a ruling against its own citizens. A strange assumption, I wonder how you formed it. They certainly have the power to punish other forms of speech, no surprise what form of speech is found distasteful there and punished though. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...out-gaza-deaths
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Jan 30, 2024 09:31
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Josef bugman posted:Sure, but once the time line is cleared up it still establishes a pattern of behaviour that, shockingly, proves the utility in it being posted. Code Pink is a poo poo organisation and Pelosi was loving right in that case. The only "point" made is that she has a pattern of identifying lovely faux-progressive organisations that believe in nothing but making chaos under the orders of foreign governments.
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Jan 30, 2024 09:41
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Pleasant Friend posted:Code Pink is a poo poo organisation and Pelosi was loving right in that case. Which other organizations are you referring to
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Jan 30, 2024 13:15
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Which other organizations are you referring to Not sure what they're referring to, but The Uhuru movement was recently indicted https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-citizens-and-russian-intelligence-officers-charged-conspiring-use-us-citizens-illegal And there was that weird fringe communist group that kept pledging allegiance to Putin or whatever during the start of the Ukraine war. I cannot remember their name and Google is more than useless nowadays without the correct keywords.
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Jan 30, 2024 14:38
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