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This isn't the 1800's. A Nation's merchant marine doesn't actually fly their national flag, they fly the flag of some super lax and unregulated country like Liberia.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:14
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It’s also not crewed by people of that nation, and the people who own the boat are insured. So yeah not really seeing the purpose.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:16
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FrozenVent posted:It’s also not crewed by people of that nation, and the people who own the boat are insured. Look up traffic to Eilat. It's having a very distinct effect on Israel's economy.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:23
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Were any of the boats attacked headed to Israel? Because so far it’s having an impact on traffic comparable to the Ever Given incident, its not so much people avoiding Eilat as they’re avoiding the entire area. I’d be curious to see if there’s been a corresponding increase in tonnage in Israeli ports on the Mediterranean coast. (This might take a week or so to register) Edit: Ashdod and Haifa do about 10x the tonnage of Eilat, each in a normal year. FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 03:27
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FrozenVent posted:Were any of the boats attacked headed to Israel? What does it matter that the entire area is affected? The priority is pressure to end the genocide, and it is undoubtedly applying pressure. The US could end it at any time and so could Israel. https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/business/red-sea-shipping-attacks/index.html This is what the insurers think about the situation. They believe there is pretty significant selectivity.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:32
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Maybe enough treats won't get to the West and then we'll ask very nicely to stop the genocide.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:52
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Don’t worry I’m sure they’ll find someone worse when she croaks <looks at the current prominent SF democrat field> yeah, gently caress that noise rep Breed or Jenkins in a safe for life seat would suck rear end. idk about Wiener or Haney, my vague impression of them from across the bay has been "idk, somewhat ineffectual"
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Jan 30, 2024 04:19
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Edit - Nevermind
FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 04:22
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:In my eyes attempting to stop a genocide or resist an imperial power is not equivalent with assisting or perpetrating a genocide, unless the means of doing so are so abhorrent that they are worse than the genocide. Did I miss something, or are you seriously white knighting Russia as someone fighting against imperialism and genocide?
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Jan 30, 2024 04:32
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A trolley problem with 10k screaming Palestinian children vs a shipping container full of treats
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Jan 30, 2024 04:33
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psydude posted:Did I miss something, or are you seriously white knighting Russia as someone fighting against imperialism and genocide? Yes you missed something
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Jan 30, 2024 04:33
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Yes you missed something In re-reading the preceding posts, I'm not sure that I did.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:35
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:gently caress right off out of here. Just amazing that “violence against the IDF might be justified to stop the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents” is what provoked this thoughtful response given all the other atrocities to choose from. Good stuff dude. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 30, 2024 04:40
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Hey Smegma, the reason I told you to gently caress right off on out of here is I was about 99% certain that you were either a troll, an rear end in a top hat, or a loving moron. Since you're taking posts from here to CSPAM for lulz - https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3842990&pagenumber=2556&perpage=40#post537492329 - I feel pretty secure in telling you your bullshit isn't welcome here. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 30, 2024 04:40
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In case anyone was in doubt, we don’t do cross forum drama.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:50
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Personally, I think the rest of you warmongers all need to take a loving seat and realize that the Houthi movement is the last stand of freedom fighters wiling to stand up and confront Israel with whatever meager means they have. If it weren't for the Partisans of Allah, who else would stand up to the perfidious alliance of Zionists and Crusaders as they seek to move their cargo through the Red Sea? The treachery of the Zionist-Crusader alliance runs deep. A global cabal of neoconservatives, clearly the ones behind the actual 10/7 attack on plucky lil Israel, have been anticipating this very moment by planting libelous and disgusting stories about the rightly-guided Houthi movement. They've used their pawns in Human Rights Watch in fabricating the Houthi siege on Taiz and enlisted their running dogs in Amnesty International to spin fanciful tales of of torture and civilian displacement in areas under their control. Ignore these lies and instead cast your eyes to the sky, where you might be so fortunate as to catch a glimpse of a Houthi anti-ship missile, something they definitely developed on their own and certainly not because of the spurious, fictitious allegations that they're an Iranian cat's paw, as it streaks toward the Red Sea and the never-ending stream of Zionist cargo ships. Or, y'know, you do not in fact have to hand it to the loving Houthis and come to the conclusion that "gently caress Israel, gently caress Hamas, gently caress America, gently caress Saudi Arabia, gently caress Iran and gently caress the Houthis" is a perfectly moral and logical perspective in assessing this conflict.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:56
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Jesus Christ I thought I was in C-SPAM for nearly this entire page
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Jan 30, 2024 05:18
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pantslesswithwolves posted:Personally, I think the rest of you warmongers all need to take a loving seat and realize that the Houthi movement is the last stand of freedom fighters wiling to stand up and confront Israel with whatever meager means they have. If it weren't for the Partisans of Allah, who else would stand up to the perfidious alliance of Zionists and Crusaders as they seek to move their cargo through the Red Sea? I am having an enormous amount of trouble determining whether or not this is quoted from somewhere really weird
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Jan 30, 2024 05:19
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If everyone is bad then who do I cheer for?
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Jan 30, 2024 08:02
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Your local sports team, if you absolutely must
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Jan 30, 2024 08:10
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Adenoid Dan posted:Look up traffic to Eilat. Eliat isn't actually a significant port. Being in the middle of the siani. The country that's *actually* getting completely economically hosed is Egypt. E: further point- the economic impact of the houthi attacks on Israel pales in comparison to the economic impact of mobilization. It's already all priced in when they decide to go to war Alchenar fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 08:27
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Ok so what is anyone or any actor supposed to do when the big world baddie backs the genocide perpetrator? Ask nicely or roll over? I don't see any other option besides relying on Mush Brain President asking nicely to stop doing a genocide.
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Jan 30, 2024 09:36
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The Aardvark posted:Ok so what is anyone or any actor supposed to do when the big world baddie backs the genocide perpetrator? Ask nicely or roll over? I don't see any other option besides relying on Mush Brain President asking nicely to stop doing a genocide. Not pretend that your long-standing piracy/random attacks are justified because you swear it's for a good reason, now. They ain't on Gaza's side and never have been. If they were, they wouldn't be promising to exempt two of Israel's biggest trade partners/allies from the attacks (due to them also being friends of Iran). If they actually were intent on helping Gaza, they wouldn't be doing it like they are, because all they are doing is increasing world suffering to help their pocket book,. It's akin to if, say, claiming you're trying to stop Walmart from expanding into a city by shooting randomly at a nearby highway, hijacking random vehicles for other stores, and kidnapping random people (while letting Walmart trucks go through). Kchama fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 10:24
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Ah so genocide is the main course.
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Jan 30, 2024 10:34
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The piracy being 'completely indiscriminate no matter what they claim' is pretty laughably easily disproven by China and Russia not lifting a finger about it.
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Jan 30, 2024 10:49
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The piracy being 'completely indiscriminate no matter what they claim' is pretty laughably easily disproven by China and Russia not lifting a finger about it. I don't really understand how that disproves that it is indiscriminate? It just means Russia and China would see what's going on as more beneficial to them to let go on instead of dealing with themselves. Russia doesn't use the Red Sea much, and China can just go around and let others suffer instead. Plus, allied with Iran. Russia has all the reason in the world to back the Houthis (especially as they are very friendly with Iran). Though considering the shape of Russia's navy, it could also be a 'can't' instead of won't'. But even all that aside, you're also wrong. Neither Russia nor China sided with the Houthis in the UN, and China is currently, right now, telling the Houthis to knock it off because it is making them look bad, as they had brokered a deal between Iran and SA to prevent this very sort of thing. The Aardvark posted:Ah so genocide is the main course. These attacks have predated the current round of genocide against the Gazans by about a decade, and didn't have such a narrative back then. Weird that the attacks suddenly became for Gaza in words, but still the same old attacks in deed. Kchama fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 11:06
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The piracy being 'completely indiscriminate no matter what they claim' is pretty laughably easily disproven by China and Russia not lifting a finger about it. They both opted against vetoing the UNSC resolution condemning the attacks. Ships with no connection to Israel, the US, or the UK carrying sanctioned Russian oil as well as a Chinese goods have been attacked. Russia wants to stay on Iran's good side to continue receiving military support for their invasion of Ukraine. And Jake Sullivan just met with China's foreign minister to discuss China applying back-room diplomatic pressure on Iran to get them to stop the attacks, because the Suez is a major trade route for EU-bound Chinese goods. efb
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Jan 30, 2024 11:11
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The Aardvark posted:Ah so genocide is the main course. Youre giving me a trolley problem and telling me I'm wrong if I choose any course but the one you dictate. I dont feel the need to support a lesser evil. Just in case you come at me with something about shipping being only a big deal to the US, UK, and Isreal: The US isn't affected by this outside of apples not getting to the 5th fleet currently. There is next to no Asia-US trade moving through there. They would be attacking US civilians moving cargo of very little military value without having any effect on the US economy outside of garunteeing reprisals. The UK is a footnote here, the operator of the ML is based in the UK but thats meaningless when it comes to shipping. Isreal probably isn't greatly affected. I dont really care to look. The big picture is that 90% of everything moves on water with a decent amount of that passing through the Suez. This can include things like Ukrainian grain for East Africa or goods moving back. In the short term, there's some bumps as supply chains adjust. Insurance costs have gone from like 20k up to 1kk, about the same as fuel costs for the trip around the Cape. Currently this isn't a big deal. Long term, this can disrupt trade in a big way, up to and including creating a global recession. Many of these costs are invisible and won't have any affect on the US but they will definitely start to hit the world's poor as they will notice those price rises. I have no idea how this will play out if it continues since supply chains are extremely complex. It just won't work out in the way many people assume. I do support the US ensuring freedom of navigation as that is a cornerstone of liberal democracy. Increased trade is good for the world. lightpole fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 11:25
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As oppressed as the Houthi’s are, they put their desire to commit genocide right on their flag.
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Jan 30, 2024 12:54
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Borscht posted:As oppressed as the Houthi’s are, they put their desire to commit genocide right on their flag. huh?
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Jan 30, 2024 13:05
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from wikipedia  "God is the Greatest Death to America Death to Israel A Curse Upon the Jews Victory to Islam" well, carrying a grudge for crimes perpetrated is genocidal in a way, i guess
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Jan 30, 2024 13:07
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lightpole posted:I do support the US ensuring freedom of navigation as that is a cornerstone of liberal democracy. Increased trade is good for the world. it wasn't all that long ago when US warships were assisting the Saudis in the illegal blockade of north Yemen, you know
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Jan 30, 2024 13:17
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Cindy the SKULL posted:from wikipedia They worked pretty hard to make sure there are no Jews in their country. Also, are all Jews guilty of Israel's crimes? That seems to be what you're saying.
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Jan 30, 2024 13:30
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Kchama posted:They worked pretty hard to make sure there are no Jews in their country. Hey man, we can all read whatever we want in each others hidden messages. But no, that isn't what I seem to be saying
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Jan 30, 2024 13:33
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Like, Israel does kinda lean on the whole "Jewish Nation" concept. Some people hated Germans back when that whole swastika business was a thing
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Jan 30, 2024 13:36
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Cindy the SKULL posted:Hey man, we can all read whatever we want in each others hidden messages. But no, that isn't what I seem to be saying
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Jan 30, 2024 13:44
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Kchama posted:It's not just Israel or America they say they hate on their flag. and you just said that they want to genocide their enemies stated on the flag because 'maybe it's just because of a grudge for 'crimes perpetuated in a genocidal way'. So I had to clarify since you seemed to be putting the Jews in there too. Well sure, but isn't it kinda completely reasonable to associate Israel with Jews as a people, since uh, Israel kinda does portray itself as THE Jewish Nation? It might not be just, but that's kinda what follows when a state like Israel does crimes against Muslims for half a century...... It's the same with America imo, there's plenty of hatred among Muslims towards your people for quite justifiable reasons. It's not something you can really criticise them for.
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Jan 30, 2024 13:55
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I have Kuwaiti refugee friend, who tells me used to love America, but now he prefers that Saddam still ruled, because at least he wasn't american... There are consequences to injustices is my point
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Jan 30, 2024 14:01
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drat... profound...
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Jan 30, 2024 14:02
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Better the Scud you know
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Jan 30, 2024 14:06
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