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blastron posted:Let's not kid ourselves, we're all going to
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Jan 31, 2024 06:10
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Dukat was always talking about how he was great for Bajor because he marginally reduced the rate people died in slave labor camps, without ever understanding that there were still slave labor camps, so nobody's going to give him the medal or statue he thinks he deserves for it.
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Jan 31, 2024 06:11
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Dukat's whole thing was that he could seem genial and pleasant sometimes but that he was in actuality a horrible monster. He's a coward, a hypocrite, and a genocidaire, but he has convinced himself that he's a decent family man and a patriot. He is picture perfect as a fascist; a lovely middle manager with delusions of grandeur and an insane victim complex despite absolutely drowning in privilege. He is one of the best characters in all of television.
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Jan 31, 2024 06:34
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W.T. Fits posted:My only interest in Section 31 is watching Lower Decks lampoon the hell out of it at the first opportunity they get. Maybe the Section 31 show will be a comedy. Just hijinks and slapstick in-between asking how many lights people see. OGS-Remix fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jan 31, 2024 |
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Jan 31, 2024 06:37
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blastron posted:Let's not kid ourselves, we're all going to watch it anyway. Not me. Not a lot of people here, I'd imagine. The days of me giving a show labelled 'Star Trek' the benefit of the doubt are over.
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Jan 31, 2024 06:54
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FishFood posted:Dukat's whole thing was that he could seem genial and pleasant sometimes but that he was in actuality a horrible monster. He's a coward, a hypocrite, and a genocidaire, but he has convinced himself that he's a decent family man and a patriot. He is picture perfect as a fascist; a lovely middle manager with delusions of grandeur and an insane victim complex despite absolutely drowning in privilege.
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Jan 31, 2024 07:06
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ashpanash posted:Not me. Not a lot of people here, I'd imagine. The days of me giving a show labelled 'Star Trek' the benefit of the doubt are over.
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Jan 31, 2024 07:11
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looking forward to them running out of ideas immediately and the plot is just section 31 vs a dark shadowy evil intel agency within the federation, known only as section 31(a)
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Jan 31, 2024 07:36
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well why not posted:I don't know what lesson I'm meant to learn from space turbo-hitler being 'reformed'. It's just really uncomfortable that history's greatest monster is now part of their "found family". Its just modern Star Trek, rule of cool and not a one thought about implications or consequences. Jack Cruscher did only a slight treason and got fleet+starbase worth of officers and civilians killed, and we are supposed to cheer for him to go on carrying the Picard legacy. Burnham disobeys orders, abandons her post and friends so frequently you can set you watch based on it. Both keep getting kicked upstairs because of rule of cool and plot armor, whereas in real life other would have been shot as a traitor and the other thrown out of starfleet for insubordination. Implied nepobabies or not.
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Jan 31, 2024 08:07
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ashpanash posted:Not me. Not a lot of people here, I'd imagine. The days of me giving a show labelled 'Star Trek' the benefit of the doubt are over. Picard S3 was so bad it really sunburned on me watching poo poo just for the hell of it. Wasn't even fun badwatching anymore. Second hand viewing will be close enough for this show. It's just so inconceivably incompatible with any of the things I like about this setting I don't even wanna be annoyed at the people in it for doing the terrible job they've agreed to.
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Jan 31, 2024 08:22
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well why not posted:For contrast, in Stargate SG-1, Teal'c is the former right-hand-man of a big bad dude. Even that show has the werewithal to reveal / retcon that he hated his boss for a long time, and was working to undermine him and protect innocents in secret . There's also a really good conversation late in the Ori seasons where Teal'c gets asked how you forgive yourself for the things you've done and move on, and his answer is a very blunt statement that you don't. And Can't. You just keep going and make sure nobody else has to experience the horrors you once inflicted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEaOxGJm87A Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Jan 31, 2024 |
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Jan 31, 2024 08:30
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Are Paramount entirely unaware of what Star Trek fans want or is this forum kind of an oddity in the fandom? Are vast swaths of Star Trek fans desperate for more Section 31 content?
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Jan 31, 2024 10:59
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PriorMarcus posted:Are Paramount entirely unaware of what Star Trek fans want or is this forum kind of an oddity in the fandom? Are vast swaths of Star Trek fans desperate for more Section 31 content? "Its a cool spy organization which does hard choices and isn't goody-two-shoes like the rest to keep the federation safe." Rule of cool, no thought whatsoever about implications or consequences. And yes this place is one of the places where any criticism towards the shows, writing, or showrunners isn't strangled to the crib by the mods.
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Jan 31, 2024 11:06
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PriorMarcus posted:Are Paramount entirely unaware of what Star Trek fans want or is this forum kind of an oddity in the fandom? Are vast swaths of Star Trek fans desperate for more Section 31 content? tbh you can't just make content that you think existing fans will like, because half the time fans have no loving idea what they actually want, and will complain about anything new. on the other hand, Paramount probably has no idea what makes Star Trek actually good, so they probably are thinking "GRIM and GRITTY Star Trek = $$$"
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Jan 31, 2024 11:07
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prestige
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Jan 31, 2024 11:11
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"what is the price of Utopia" is a topic I am obviously interested in, I just don't trust this creative team to approach it in a way that makes sense for the setting or is, you know, actually good.
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Jan 31, 2024 11:15
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People also did seem to really like Michelle Yeoh character, cos well yeah she's a really good actor and it is a pretty fun character that gave her a lot to work with. Probably hoping for another Pike SNW thing. Which same, really good actor with a character that has a lot to work with, but importantly that character also works really well in the star trek world as well, which is why SNW works. No matter how well Anson mount played pike would make SNW work if that as the only thing it had going for it.
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Jan 31, 2024 11:25
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I miss Prime Universe Yeoh.
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Jan 31, 2024 11:44
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PriorMarcus posted:Are Paramount entirely unaware of what Star Trek fans want or is this forum kind of an oddity in the fandom? Are vast swaths of Star Trek fans desperate for more Section 31 content? A lot of people loved Picard.
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Jan 31, 2024 11:48
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Lot of people loved hitler
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Jan 31, 2024 12:39
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Neddy Seagoon posted:There's also a really good conversation late in the Ori seasons where Teal'c gets asked how you forgive yourself for the things you've done and move on, and his answer is a very blunt statement that you don't. And Can't. You just keep going and make sure nobody else has to experience the horrors you once inflicted. Teal'c's extraordinary moral clarity is a big part of why he works so well. That, and he's an extremely decisive person. When he's put on trial by locals for the past, he willingly complies despite his team offering to rescue him because he legitimately believes people deserve justice for the things he did as First Prime. Also, the fact that he wanted to help from the beginning is pretty apparent even in the pilot. The thing that gets him to turn on his masters is O'Neil telling him he can save these refugees if Teal'c helps, and the response is "Many have made this offer. And you are the first I believe." Teal'c is just a fantastic example of how to do his kind of character.
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Jan 31, 2024 14:31
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PriorMarcus posted:Are Paramount entirely unaware of what Star Trek fans want or is this forum kind of an oddity in the fandom? Are vast swaths of Star Trek fans desperate for more Section 31 content?
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Jan 31, 2024 17:12
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Yeah, its that a recurring cast member they were considering doing more with won an Oscar, and even as P+ is dealing with all sorts of issues, you gotta do something with a very recent Oscar winner. (obviously, she was a big deal even before being validated by the Oscars, but it certainly helped!)
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Jan 31, 2024 17:52
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MikeJF posted:I miss Prime Universe Yeoh. It's so stupid they went so far out of their way to yank her evil mirror twin to bring her back to the universe instead of just going out of their way to bring a good one back.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:14
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Der Kyhe posted:Its just modern Star Trek, rule of cool and not a one thought about implications or consequences. Jack Cruscher did only a slight treason and got fleet+starbase worth of officers and civilians killed, and we are supposed to cheer for him to go on carrying the Picard legacy. Burnham disobeys orders, abandons her post and friends so frequently you can set you watch based on it. Let's not bring up "whereas in real life" as a criticism of Modern Trek cause Old Trek isn't going to stand up to that scrutiny either. That being said I will watch Michelle Yeoh be Space Hitler given a second chance at life because Michelle Yeoh owns. I hope she does a butterfly kick over a disruptor shot and then stabs someone with a space sword.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:17
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Clouseau posted:Yeah, its that a recurring cast member they were considering doing more with won an Oscar, and even as P+ is dealing with all sorts of issues, you gotta do something with a very recent Oscar winner.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:18
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Section 31 was an excellent idea that much like the Borg has become horribly mutated and diluted with overuse. It was a great example of how careful one must be in how a utopia is defended and how ideals and morals are so often ignored when people are given deniability. They were unambiguously presented as antagonists and a betrayal of the ideals of the federation hiding behind a warped sense of "the greater good". It would be like if there was some shadow organization inside the US government that had been rigging elections and secretly assassinating people whose fallback is their oath was to defend against threats foreign and domestic. A threat being anyone who doesn't agree with what they think. That's what Section 31 should be, bad people clinging to some shred of legitimacy that doesn't actually exist.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:26
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I predict the plot of Section 31 will be Michelle Yeoh destroying it because through her experiences she has learned their thinking is wrong. And that's why Section 31 in DS9 times is just one weirdo.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:44
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Gangringo posted:Section 31 was an excellent idea that much like the Borg has become horribly mutated and diluted with overuse. It was a great example of how careful one must be in how a utopia is defended and how ideals and morals are so often ignored when people are given deniability. They were unambiguously presented as antagonists and a betrayal of the ideals of the federation hiding behind a warped sense of "the greater good". So it’s Blue Bloods/NCIS/FBI/et al for Star Trek
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Jan 31, 2024 18:47
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I forgot it was a movie now lol. Well that's fewer hours of bad material produces so that's good. On the other hand, even a good Trek movie concept and execution caps out at like 40% as good as a decent episode of the equivalent series, and that would be DISCO in this case. What's the best episode of Disco anyway? The first two that came to mind were SNW episodes, oops
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Jan 31, 2024 18:47
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Khanstant posted:I forgot it was a movie now lol. Well that's fewer hours of bad material produces so that's good. On the other hand, even a good Trek movie concept and execution caps out at like 40% as good as a decent episode of the equivalent series, and that would be DISCO in this case.
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Jan 31, 2024 18:51
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I still think I’d have preferred Yeoh to come back for a mirror universe movie, but I suspect that would be considered a retread of that dumb 2-part story in Discovery S3
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Jan 31, 2024 19:19
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And the mirror universe doesn’t stand up to any kind of scrutiny. I honestly really like the idea that it doesn’t exist when someone from the prime universe isn’t there.
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Jan 31, 2024 19:23
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I want a show set entirely in the turbolift dimension
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Jan 31, 2024 19:27
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The_Doctor posted:And the mirror universe doesn’t stand up to any kind of scrutiny. I honestly really like the idea that it doesn’t exist when someone from the prime universe isn’t there. Makes sense, a mirror can't reflect someone that's not standing in front of it
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Jan 31, 2024 19:28
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The thing about section 31 is that they're just lovely fascists being lovely fascists. If the Starfleet charter didn't have section 31 article 14 they would still be lovely fascists in Starfleet doing all the same poo poo without the catchy name.
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Jan 31, 2024 19:33
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FlamingLiberal posted:The ‘Groundhog Day’ time loop episode with Harry Mudd from Season 1 Magic To Make The Sanest Man Go Mad, which I will always recall because it's just as goofy as any title from TOS
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Jan 31, 2024 19:33
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I predict the plot of Section 31 will be Michelle Yeoh destroying it because through her experiences she has learned their thinking is wrong. And that's why Section 31 in DS9 times is just one weirdo. This but the ending is her waking up on the Enterprise-G
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Jan 31, 2024 20:16
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The_Doctor posted:And the mirror universe doesn’t stand up to any kind of scrutiny. I honestly really like the idea that it doesn’t exist when someone from the prime universe isn’t there. Doesn't square with DS9 where Smiley, Barial, and Jennifer visited from the mirror dimension of their own volition without anybody bringing them.
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Jan 31, 2024 20:36
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Doesn't square with DS9 where Smiley, Barial, and Jennifer visited from the mirror dimension of their own volition without anybody bringing them. that was the real O'Brien, he accidentally soul swapped into the mirror universe a while back while trying to fix the transporters.
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Jan 31, 2024 20:38
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