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Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

hobbesmaster posted:

During the early space race a bunch of people claimed to have invented reactionless engines which would free NASA from the tyranny of the rocket equation. One of these people was Norman Dean, the inventor of the Dean Drive. He purported to have a device that could convert rotary motion into linear motion via, well, magic I guess.

Well anyway, Dean immediately went to the editors of science fiction magazines and writers immediately realized that if you had a pressure hull with a big reactor in it that can turn a wheel then if you add this thing you have a spaceship! And thus the submarine in space era of pulp sci-fi began!

Atomic rockets has the original article in analog that started the idea.

Easy peasy! Just slap some of these drives on the USS Skate and voila:


As a former nuclear submariner, and current maker of space things, lol, lmao, and thank you for this.

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mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




hobbesmaster posted:

all of it is incredible.

That's Atomic Rockets to a T. Good to know they didn't drop the ball there.

Here's the actual AR page on heat radiators,

https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/heatrad.php

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

slidebite posted:

They did something similar to an old museum piece 737 in Edmonton that was sitting for years but the airport land it was on was being re-zoned, so they made it airworthy and flew it about 12 minutes or so to a new home literally just before the airport was closed.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/737-plane-leaves-city-centre-airport-for-new-home-1.2445868

Such a shame Edmonton City Centre was closed and everything had to go to loving Leduc City Centre.

I'd always heard jokes about how far it was away and then I went there and... holy gently caress.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-withdraws-bid-safety-exemption-boeing-737-max-7-2024-01-30/

quote:


The exemption Boeing had sought "involves an anti-ice system that can overheat and cause the engine nacelle to break apart and fall off. This could generate fuselage-penetrating debris, which could endanger passengers in window seats behind the wing."

Boeing said late on Monday "while we are confident that the proposed time-limited exemption for that system follows established FAA processes to ensure safe operation, we will instead incorporate an engineering solution that will be completed during the certification process."

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


I swear, every time Boeing news comes up, I can hear the article being read by Bill Ratner.

EasilyConfused
Nov 21, 2009


one strong toad

hobbesmaster posted:

During the early space race a bunch of people claimed to have invented reactionless engines which would free NASA from the tyranny of the rocket equation. One of these people was Norman Dean, the inventor of the Dean Drive. He purported to have a device that could convert rotary motion into linear motion via, well, magic I guess.

Well anyway, Dean immediately went to the editors of science fiction magazines and writers immediately realized that if you had a pressure hull with a big reactor in it that can turn a wheel then if you add this thing you have a spaceship! And thus the submarine in space era of pulp sci-fi began!

Atomic rockets has the original article in analog that started the idea.

Easy peasy! Just slap some of these drives on the USS Skate and voila:


From the Wikipedia article about the Dean Drive:

quote:

In the 1950s Jerry Pournelle, working for an aerospace company, contacted Dean to investigate purchasing the device. Dean refused to demonstrate the device without pre-payment and promise of a Nobel prize. Pournelle's company were unwilling to pay for the right to examine the device and never saw the purported model. 3M sent representatives about the same time, and obtained similar results. Pournelle eventually was convinced that Dean's device never worked.[12]

Normal bit of negotiation there, require a Nobel prize.

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

mllaneza posted:

2. Vacuum is not cold. You need extensive radiator arrays to get rid of heat in a vacuum. This is a rare error on Nyrath's part.

My understanding was less that it's not "cold" than there isn't much of anything to be cold or warmed up. Meaning you have to straight up radiate out the energy into the void vs the usually much faster and efficient method of dumping that energy into a transitionary material like water or air or so on to let the energy spread out there before entropy takes hold.

It was one of the more interesting little points of the Mass Effect games. Your "ammo" is infinite, but you have thermal clips of some sci fi material that sucks up the waste heat/energy of your weapons that needs replacing once it hits capacity. Functionally it's the same thing from gameplay functionality but it's a neat in universe way of covering their asses.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

ME2 actually has an Easter egg that references the author of that website.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Warbird posted:

My understanding was less that it's not "cold" than there isn't much of anything to be cold or warmed up. Meaning you have to straight up radiate out the energy into the void vs the usually much faster and efficient method of dumping that energy into a transitionary material like water or air or so on to let the energy spread out there before entropy takes hold.

It was one of the more interesting little points of the Mass Effect games. Your "ammo" is infinite, but you have thermal clips of some sci fi material that sucks up the waste heat/energy of your weapons that needs replacing once it hits capacity. Functionally it's the same thing from gameplay functionality but it's a neat in universe way of covering their asses.

it's also a big step back from ME1, where they just put a big heatsink on your gun that radiated away the heat slowly, letting you shoot forever as long as you rotated your guns

Full Collapse
Dec 4, 2002

Mac Walters really took a giant poo poo on the ME franchise.

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless
Mass Effect has a ton of discussion of heat management tucked away in the codex entries, they really geek out about how important heat management is on a combat spacecraft and all the wild ways they deal with it.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid
The changes were made for gameplay reasons. The fluff of ME doesn't entirely line up with the crunch and that gap widens as the series goes on.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Truga posted:

it's also a big step back from ME1, where they just put a big heatsink on your gun that radiated away the heat slowly, letting you shoot forever as long as you rotated your guns

They should have done both. Any gun can shoot forever if you do it at a reasonable rate, but if you need to fire fast and continuously, you can eject the radiator and swap in a new one from a limited supply of spares. Like changing the barrel on a heavy machine gun. It would be lore-accurate and I'm sure it could be balanced for gameplay too.

:argh:

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Warbird posted:

My understanding was less that it's not "cold" than there isn't much of anything to be cold or warmed up. Meaning you have to straight up radiate out the energy into the void vs the usually much faster and efficient method of dumping that energy into a transitionary material like water or air or so on to let the energy spread out there before entropy takes hold.

Space is cold. Space is very cold. If you're in deep space and you don't have any big bright warm lights shining on you the ambient temperature is about 3 kelvin.

The requirement for cooling comes from exactly what you state: since you can't remove heat with convection or conduction, the only thing left is to radiate. If you've got something with a light source shining on it, it's going to heat up until it reaches a temperature where it's radiating as much as it's absorbing. If you've got something with an internal heat source (like a person), same thing: it's going to heat up until the power emitted equals the power produced. So unless your system is capable of operating at those temperatures, you need to remove heat from it and shunt that heat over to a system that can.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Wingnut Ninja posted:

Mass Effect has a ton of discussion of heat management tucked away in the codex entries, they really geek out about how important heat management is on a combat spacecraft and all the wild ways they deal with it.

The person who wrote that got on the sfconsim-l mailing list and asked a lot of questions. Back then that was a major resource for realistic space combat.

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

Truga posted:

it's also a big step back from ME1, where they just put a big heatsink on your gun that radiated away the heat slowly, letting you shoot forever as long as you rotated your guns

Agreed.

It is never too soon to stop playing Mass Effect sequels.

Hobo on Fire
Dec 4, 2008

Sagebrush posted:

They should have done both. Any gun can shoot forever if you do it at a reasonable rate, but if you need to fire fast and continuously, you can eject the radiator and swap in a new one from a limited supply of spares. Like changing the barrel on a heavy machine gun. It would be lore-accurate and I'm sure it could be balanced for gameplay too.

:argh:

I'm pretty sure I had a mod for ME2 that did exactly that for the weapons. No attempt at making it balanced though.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Mortabis posted:

The changes were made for gameplay reasons. The fluff of ME doesn't entirely line up with the crunch and that gap widens as the series goes on.

The best (worst) example of this is that there’s a gun that’s supposed to be a historic relic, but instead of special-casing it to not use disposable heat sinks in ME2, the devs gave it a codex entry that says that it was modified to use disposable heat sinks.

Xakura
Jan 10, 2019

A safety-conscious little mouse!
ME2 had so much terrible trash and were really the beginning of the end for bioware.

Absolute dumbest gun/physics were this thing though, and I still remember it 14 years later

M-920 Cain posted:

Normandy's scientists have prototyped a modified version of traditional high-explosive rounds that is applied to a 25-gram slug. When accelerated to 5 km/s, the round is devastating. Though a technically inaccurate label, this prototype weapon is nicknamed the "Nuke Launcher," and its high-explosive matrix generates an archetypical mushroom cloud on impact.

25 grams of high explosive, baby. No concept of why mushroom clouds happen. And best of all, the mach 15 round goes as slow as a softball, you really have to lead your target.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Phanatic posted:

Space is cold. Space is very cold. If you're in deep space and you don't have any big bright warm lights shining on you the ambient temperature is about 3 kelvin.

The interplanetary medium is actually quite hot but the density is so low it’s really pretty meaningless. Similarly the “speed of sound” is an important property of space but sound doesn’t propagate in a way we’d be familiar with. In the interstellar medium “warm” is 6000-10000 K but the density is on the order of 0.5/cm3. “Hot” is 106K and “cold” is 50K

Along similar lines, did you know that the moon has an atmosphere?

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Xakura posted:

ME2 had so much terrible trash and were really the beginning of the end for bioware.

Absolute dumbest gun/physics were this thing though, and I still remember it 14 years later

25 grams of high explosive, baby. No concept of why mushroom clouds happen. And best of all, the mach 15 round goes as slow as a softball, you really have to lead your target.

O.K. but the even more physically preposterous gun that creates miniature black holes is dope as hell.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!

hobbesmaster posted:

Along similar lines, did you know that the moon has an atmosphere?



You have your truth and I have mine.

Cactus Ghost
Dec 20, 2003

you can actually inflate your scrote pretty safely with sterile saline, syringes, needles, and aseptic technique. its a niche kink iirc

the saline just slowly gets absorbed into your blood but in the meantime you got a big round smooth distended nutsack

idk why yall expect scientific rigor from a series that has not one but two kinds of space-magic, and an alien species composed entirely, exclusively, of big titty babes in catsuits

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Cactus Ghost posted:

idk why yall expect scientific rigor from a series that has not one but two kinds of space-magic, and an alien species composed entirely, exclusively, of big titty babes in catsuits
The metal bird race
The macho lizards with nukes race
The blue elves with squid hair who are all ladies race
The science amphibian race
The big, stupid jellyfish race
The elephants that can’t emote race
The short greedy guys in suits race
The creepy fish race
The terrorist race
The vermin race

Yeah those last three were really phoning it in. Do you even remember the Drell, Batarians, and Vorcha?

I only just learned that Bioware pulled a JKR with the “Raloi”, never mentioned in the games or the comics.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Platystemon posted:

The metal bird race
The macho lizards with nukes race
The blue elves with squid hair who are all ladies race
The science amphibian race
The big, stupid jellyfish race
The elephants that can’t emote race
The short greedy guys in suits race
The creepy fish race
The terrorist race
The vermin race

Yeah those last three were really phoning it in. Do you even remember the Drell, Batarians, and Vorcha?

I only just learned that Bioware pulled a JKR with the “Raloi”, never mentioned in the games or the comics.

I do

I know not your JK Rowling references, but I can tell you that you missed a few races:

The Grizzly Bear-like dudes, who were contacted but because certain basic social situations trigger extreme violence in them it didn't go anywhere
The Geth, the flashlight heads that are a machine sorta group intelligence
The Quarians, the people who didn't handle the geth becoming actually intelligent so well
The Rachni, the biological insect hive mind intelligence
The Space Kraken that built the Reapers, which had been hiding all this time despite having vastly extended knowledge (oh and the ability to almost telepathically control life)
The Reapers, the first demonstration that just because something existed like 200 million years doesn't mean it's not gonna be real dumb
The Awakened Collectors, who despite being nightmarish biological robots get separated from their hive intelligence
EDI and co, who are weaponized hot women, the AI
That one remaining Prothean, who as it turns out were insect-like

As I played the ME3 multiplayer quite a bit, let me tell you the Drell and Lizard-like, and have a "bonus damage / extra squishy" template. The Batarians are four eyed slug people who's extensive space rome (if space rome had enough technology to gently caress up whole planet biospheres) is entirely mulched by the start of ME3. The ME3 multiplater Batarians were all expats who were fighting because they basically had nothing else to do. The Vorcha were, in essence space rats. They got damage buffs as they killed things quickly and could regenerate health, and got a especially moble set of special moves. The awakened collectors and EDI-esque Hookerbot come from there. The awakened collectors were very power space magicians. The Hookerbots were inverse infiltrators, they got damage bonuses to shotguns and could resurrect themselves.

If you want to be angry at mass effect writers, read the "Heechee Trilogy" by Frederick Pohl. Actually if you like scifi, read it anyway, it's kinda great! A lot of Mass Effect's overarching plot was cribbed from there.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
I was only listing races who were vaguely acknowledged as people by the Council, not all sentient beings.

I thought that Cactus Ghost was talking about the Quarians, but I see now that it was the Asari. They are both represented exclusively by women in catsuits in the first game. Men in catsuits appear in the second game.

The JKR thing is that she, too, loves to add things to the books by Twitter decree.

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/544946669448867841

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


She also detracts from the books via Twitter decree.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

YOU NERDS

anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0e_xZFSSRw&t=232s

I came across this, a video that was shot from the cockpit of a Tu-160 Blackjack. The cockpit is slightly odd. So you have your two pilots and your two other crew in normal* positions, then there is a narrow hallway that leads back to the ingress hatch that opens into the forward landing gear bay, and above that, the toilet.



That's not so odd; what is a bit odd is that the pilot's seats move from a ingress-egress position, up to the actual flight position, and I mean they move up, like the cabin isn't on the right level for a sitting pilot to have a proper view out. Also (and this is sort of terrifying) I don't know how the seats move, but they almost crush the video narrator

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Aero Insanity: I’m Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite thread in AI

BalloonFish
Jun 30, 2013



Fun Shoe

Nebakenezzer posted:

That's not so odd; what is a bit odd is that the pilot's seats move from a ingress-egress position, up to the actual flight position, and I mean they move up, like the cabin isn't on the right level for a sitting pilot to have a proper view out.

I wonder if that is a deliberate design choice to protect the crew from nuclear flash?

On the British V-bombers every window in the cockpit could be covered by retractable screens, and when flying combat exercises (and in any hypothetical Cold War-gone-Hot scenario) they would be put up shortly after takeoff and lowered just before landing. The vast majority of the mission was flown entirely on instruments with navigation, targetting, weapons release and self-defence being done by radio, radar and inertial navigation.

I suspect the Tu-160 is similar - the pilots fly most of the time with the seats in the lower position, better-protected from flash by the fuselage and panels, lifting the seats up for the brief bits of visual and hand flying.

I'm pretty sure the Tu-160 also had not only an onboard kitchenette for heating ration packs but seats with pneumatic 'massage' function to reduce crew fatigue on long missions.

Rascar Capac
Aug 31, 2016

Surprisingly nice, for an evil Inca mummy.

BalloonFish posted:

I'm pretty sure the Tu-160 also had not only an onboard kitchenette for heating ration packs but seats with pneumatic 'massage' function to reduce crew fatigue on long missions.

Those quotation marks make it sound like the Tu-160 offers happy endings.

BalloonFish
Jun 30, 2013



Fun Shoe

Rascar Capac posted:

Those quotation marks make it sound like the Tu-160 offers happy endings.

Lol. More a sceptism of how effective or comfortable the massage function on a Soviet bomber designed in the 1970s with ejector seats that would kill the crew when used with the seat in certain positions (read: a position set for any pilot over about 5' 8") because they were originally designed for fighters would actually be.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
I'm assume it's a misstranslation for 'whipping with birch branches.'

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Groda posted:

I'm assume it's a misstranslation for 'whipping with birch branches.'


I doubt there is a banya aboard a plane.

... Anyway, Soviet equipment generally has awful ergonomics, but it's not impossible that a particular designer was just different.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Nebakenezzer posted:

Also (and this is sort of terrifying) I don't know how the seats move, but they almost crush the video narrator

Put your hand up on the handle to guide the mechanical seat lift into place.

*fails to mention the fact that poo poo moves*

PhotoKirk
Jul 2, 2007

insert witty text here

Nebakenezzer posted:

YOU NERDS

anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0e_xZFSSRw&t=232s

I came across this, a video that was shot from the cockpit of a Tu-160 Blackjack. The cockpit is slightly odd. So you have your two pilots and your two other crew in normal* positions, then there is a narrow hallway that leads back to the ingress hatch that opens into the forward landing gear bay, and above that, the toilet.



That's not so odd; what is a bit odd is that the pilot's seats move from a ingress-egress position, up to the actual flight position, and I mean they move up, like the cabin isn't on the right level for a sitting pilot to have a proper view out. Also (and this is sort of terrifying) I don't know how the seats move, but they almost crush the video narrator

Can't let the T-62 eat all the crew members.

kalleth
Jan 28, 2006

C'mon, just give it a shot
Fun Shoe
I got baited into watching Elite Air Force (asylum B movie) tonight. It's on prime.

I'm about 15 minutes in and the cockpit gibberish is hilarious. I've already moved on from shouting "that's not how planes work" at the screen. It's worse than trek levels of gibberish.

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless
I remember seeing a snippet of some Asylum movie where a "helicopter cockpit" was clearly just two people sitting at a table wearing lovely helmets.

kalleth
Jan 28, 2006

C'mon, just give it a shot
Fun Shoe

Wingnut Ninja posted:

I remember seeing a snippet of some Asylum movie where a "helicopter cockpit" was clearly just two people sitting at a table wearing lovely helmets.

weirdly the set dressing on this one is pretty good, they actually have the cockpit looking like they rented a real sim. But oh the plot holes.

the "bomb" on this airliner apparently has an altimeter trigger, but to throw it out they need to depressurise the aircraft. ATC displays look weirdly like the PFD and MFD on a 747, and the Hero Plane was a narrow body with two engines on takeoff but has morphed into a 747 in the aerial combat scenes (yes aerial combat involving a 747).

Edit: holy poo poo, they just threw the bomb out of the cargo door in flight and it landed on the mig 29 that was attacking them from 090 (straight ahead, apparently). And now the stewardess has to land the plane.....

Edit 2: butter straight on the centre line, cheering, etc. what a ride

kalleth fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Feb 1, 2024

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Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg
Oct 4, 2004

ha, ha, ha, og me ekam
The second you see that Asylum banner, you know you're in for a wild ride. Gonna add this one to my "I had a bad day and need some good dumb poo poo to watch" list!

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