The US will lose WW3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

FrancisFukyomama posted:

isn�t Britain in warhammer a land of subhuman swampmen who have less lore than warhammer China did before the total war games

oh its been a while i confused albion and the high elf island ulthuan

# ? Jan 31, 2024 20:27

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# ? May 26, 2024 16:29

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

dk2m posted:

...

By Vietnam, this situation became undone. As Hudson says, France recognized the hegemony that the U.S. had, and because fighting the Vietnam war was extremely costly, the dollars entering French Indochina banks were being regularly sent back to the U.S. to be converted to gold. By depleting the U.S. gold reserves, this put immense pressure on USD, driving it downwards. One of the more interesting dynamics of Vietnam was reaction of Wall Street - they locked hands with anti-war protestors to protest the erosion of sovereignty happening due to the immense cost of the war - opposed to that were the trade unions who were benefitting from the MIC ramp up
...

Would you say MIC vs. Wall Street was part of the struggle and Wall Street come out ahead in the end? Also all the anti war cultural movements might have lineages to the American NGO ideas that CIA love to use oversea right now.

# ? Jan 31, 2024 20:39

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

stephenthinkpad posted:

Would you say MIC vs. Wall Street was part of the struggle and Wall Street come out ahead in the end? Also all the anti war cultural movements might have lineages to the American NGO ideas that CIA love to use oversea right now.

Reagan supported the formation of the student loan industry as a way to suppress student movements with a sword of debt hanging over them, much like the IMF.

# ? Jan 31, 2024 20:47

Pomeroy: Apr 20, 2020

ro5s posted:

in terms of description it�s all frozen wastes but on the maps it�s all of not north america

Z the IVth posted:

Strictly speaking isn't Naggaroth not-Canada?

Yeah, it's all of NA, but all of it with Albertan* weather.

*possibly the wrong province for this analogy, I know very little about Canada.

# ? Jan 31, 2024 20:49

Mister Bates: Aug 4, 2010

stephenthinkpad posted:

Question for the thread, what's America's most MICbrain war in recent history? What is the war that make the lease sense even if you win it, that has the lowest potential return to actual cost ratio?

If I just simple compare the geopolitical importance of Korean peninsula/Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan regions, Vietnam's geopolitical important is just way lower than Afghan and Korea. Even if you win the war, you only hold the lower plain area of Indochina peninsula. You cold war opponent can still easier attack you from the Laos mountains and easily cut it off from the narrow middle. And you win it to defend what? Thailand? The whole domino theory is just a dumb pitch to keep the MIC money rolling. And to top it off, that was before American switched from gold standard to a debt-based monetary policy, the US dollar was real money back in the 60s and 70s. If you tell me the US government in the 60s was controlled by "Sons of Patriots" secret society, I'd believe it.

the only reason the invasion of Grenada wasn't a humiliating disaster is because US intelligence massively overestimated both the ability and the willingness of the locals to fight, and it would have been a complete bloodbath if they had put up even token resistance. it was the peak of imperial arrogance, roll in almost completely unprepared and place a bunch of your men and equipment at huge risk for just about the lowest reward possible.

almost no effort at all was put into intelligence gathering or really any preparation at all for the invasion, they just came in and landed like it was a training exercise. they paradropped guys directly onto the lit-up runway at the airport that was supposedly held by hardened Cuban special forces, who would have massacred them as they landed if they had actually existed.

now, in practice, nobody tried to fight back - the Cuban 'defenders' were actually unarmed and bemused construction workers, for example - but they could have easily lost hundreds of people trying to take a city-state the size of Ft Lauderdale.

as-is they still managed to lose a bunch of guys in helicopter crashes trying to capture literally-undefended buildings, nearly kill the American students they were nominally there to rescue, and drop napalm on a hospital

# ? Jan 31, 2024 20:59

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

In that vein, Somalia.

The Black Hawk Down incident specifically. It's only by luck it was only 18 dead IMO. They had convoys that got loving lost in a city that was hostile to them. They ran back and forth between the crash sites and eventually got pinned down. If someone got lucky (again) with an RPG on the lost convoy, they're toast. If the Somalis had some radios to coordinate better, they're toast. They had air support and that probably was the decisive factor above all else, but they still ran very close to just simply being overrun, and their relief still wasn''t showing up for like 12 hours after this all happens. They were lucky to get away with just 18 dead instead of a total party wipe

# ? Jan 31, 2024 21:09

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

if the most MIC-brained war is the one where the MIC benefited the most, consequences be damned, then it is probably the war in Laos/Cambodia. just massively profitable for the MIC, helped to create the tech industry and all their MIC profits, and defined a style of "spend and deny" wars that we're still fighting.

if the most MIC-brained war is the one where the MIC showed the most hubris for least amount of profit, maybe the Kosovo War.

# ? Jan 31, 2024 21:18

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Mister Bates posted:

the only reason the invasion of Grenada wasn't a humiliating disaster is because US intelligence massively overestimated both the ability and the willingness of the locals to fight, and it would have been a complete bloodbath if they had put up even token resistance. it was the peak of imperial arrogance, roll in almost completely unprepared and place a bunch of your men and equipment at huge risk for just about the lowest reward possible.

almost no effort at all was put into intelligence gathering or really any preparation at all for the invasion, they just came in and landed like it was a training exercise. they paradropped guys directly onto the lit-up runway at the airport that was supposedly held by hardened Cuban special forces, who would have massacred them as they landed if they had actually existed.

now, in practice, nobody tried to fight back - the Cuban 'defenders' were actually unarmed and bemused construction workers, for example - but they could have easily lost hundreds of people trying to take a city-state the size of Ft Lauderdale.

as-is they still managed to lose a bunch of guys in helicopter crashes trying to capture literally-undefended buildings, nearly kill the American students they were nominally there to rescue, and drop napalm on a hospital

If you only nearly kill the hostages that's one of the most successful military operations since NATO's founding

# ? Jan 31, 2024 21:35

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

War on Drugs

# ? Jan 31, 2024 22:21

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Wasn't Kosovo war a "win" to NATO in the western narrative. I'll admit I don't know enough about this war.

Also was it big enough of a war for a MIC feast?

# ? Jan 31, 2024 22:22

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

stephenthinkpad posted:

Wasn't Kosovo war a "win" to NATO in the western narrative. I'll admit I don't know enough about this war.

Also was it big enough of a war for a MIC feast?

sure they count it a win...but they count everything as a win now.

but like you said, they didn't get to feast that much, the PR failures were pretty big, China probably got some sweet tech out of it. so least MIC gain for most MIC loss

# ? Jan 31, 2024 22:36

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

stephenthinkpad posted:

Wasn't Kosovo war a "win" to NATO in the western narrative. I'll admit I don't know enough about this war.

Also was it big enough of a war for a MIC feast?

yep: they bombed the poo poo out of Serbian infrastructure, bombed the Chinese embassy and got away with it, showed the Russians who destroyed themselves fighting in WW1 to save Serbia how much Russian power had declined, and ensured Yugoslavia would finish fracturing.

It was a win on all fronts.

# ? Jan 31, 2024 22:43

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

Mister Bates posted:

the only reason the invasion of Grenada wasn't a humiliating disaster is because US intelligence massively overestimated both the ability and the willingness of the locals to fight, and it would have been a complete bloodbath if they had put up even token resistance. it was the peak of imperial arrogance, roll in almost completely unprepared and place a bunch of your men and equipment at huge risk for just about the lowest reward possible.

almost no effort at all was put into intelligence gathering or really any preparation at all for the invasion, they just came in and landed like it was a training exercise. they paradropped guys directly onto the lit-up runway at the airport that was supposedly held by hardened Cuban special forces, who would have massacred them as they landed if they had actually existed.

now, in practice, nobody tried to fight back - the Cuban 'defenders' were actually unarmed and bemused construction workers, for example - but they could have easily lost hundreds of people trying to take a city-state the size of Ft Lauderdale.

as-is they still managed to lose a bunch of guys in helicopter crashes trying to capture literally-undefended buildings, nearly kill the American students they were nominally there to rescue, and drop napalm on a hospital

Aaaaahhahahahahaha I've never heard this before and it's broken part of me

# ? Jan 31, 2024 22:44

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

My theory about Grenada is that every few decades they pick a little guy to kick his poo poo in to remind Latin America who is the predator in the jungle.

So it's more of an imperialism project than a MIC project.

# ? Jan 31, 2024 22:53

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

stephenthinkpad posted:

My theory about Grenada is that every few decades they pick a little guy to kick his poo poo in to remind Latin America who is the predator in the jungle.

So it's more of an imperialism project than a MIC project.

They had to take a second mordida at that apple that decade to make up for Grenada, in Panama. He's still in a US jail after being a US puppet lmao.

I still think Bush I's term was just tying up loose ends from CIA, Noriega and Saddam.

# ? Jan 31, 2024 23:07

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/dotorii_muk/status/1752382475098276291

the days of the elite being shamed by lack of infrastructure in the us is over

# ? Feb 1, 2024 04:12

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

stephenthinkpad posted:

My theory about Grenada is that every few decades they pick a little guy to kick his poo poo in to remind Latin America who is the predator in the jungle.

So it's more of an imperialism project than a MIC project.

When i was 10 or so an older kid told me that each president got to pick on some little state so he'd feel like a big man... Reagan got Grenada and Bush was getting Panama. Little did we know Bush would get two wars but hey, the kid wasn't wrong.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 04:46

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

FrancisFukyomama posted:

isn�t Britain in warhammer a land of subhuman swampmen who have less lore than warhammer China did before the total war games

there's actually a faction in Warhammer Fantasy, the Brothers of Handrich, that has a particularly interesting arc: they're burghers that start plotting a conspiracy to manipulate the Elector Counts and overthrow the imperial order because the despite their accumulation of wealth, they can't parley it into political power.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 05:06

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

Why Defense Contractors Are Saying No to Their Biggest Customer: The Pentagon

quote:

Why Defense Contractors Are Saying No to Their Biggest Customer: The Pentagon
Global conflicts drive record orders for Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin and RTX, but they are passing on some big deals
By Doug Cameron and Drew FitzGerald
Jan. 30, 2024 5:30 am ET

The Pentagon wants to develop advanced weapons systems to counter emerging overseas threats. Many defense contractors are avoiding projects that could turn into money-losers. The industry�s discontent has been brewing for months and reached a crescendo this past week when Northrop Grumman said it would take a charge of $1.2 billion building the first batches of the new B-21 Raider. The long-range bomber aircraft will be capable of carrying nuclear weapons and is a centerpiece of efforts to deter military actions from China and Russia.

Inflation played havoc with cost estimates Northrop Grumman made when it beat a team of Boeing and Lockheed Martin for the initial contract in 2015. Pandemic-driven supply-chain challenges and labor shortages also made the first planes pricier to make. Executives of U.S. defense contractors tried to reassure investors they wouldn�t chase projects that presented high risks for cost overruns. The comments come as several companies have record order books from the U.S. and allies stocking up on jet fighters, missile-defense systems and other weaponry.

�We have passed on some high-profile programs,� Northrop Grumman Chief Executive Kathy Warden said on an investor call last week. The company�s shares fell more than 8% after it reported the charge on the B-21, wiping $4.5 billion from its market value. The company said in the summer that it wouldn�t bid on an Air Force program to develop high-end jet fighters that will replace the radar-evading F-22.

The Pentagon typically uses what are called cost-plus contracts to develop new weapons systems. Companies earn a fixed profit and the government covers unexpected expenses if problems emerge or contract requirements change. When those plans are ironed out and weapons are ready for production, the Pentagon often switches to fixed-price deals. The parties agree on a price, but companies are left on the hook if costs run higher. Executives said the balance between risk and reward from some deals has swung too far toward the Pentagon, pushing them to avoid projects that could fuel growth.

�I will sacrifice revenue for earnings and cash every day of the year,� said L3Harris Technologies CEO Chris Kubasik. The company dropped out of competing for a new Navy missile last summer, and Kubasik said last week that it had skipped another deal in the fall. Lockheed Martin and RTX, the country�s two biggest defense contractors by revenue, are both nursing losses on fixed-price Pentagon contracts.

Boeing racked up more than $10 billion in losses because of missteps in building new refueling tankers, space taxis and jumbo jets that will carry the president on Air Force One. Boeing has since sworn off entering new fixed-price development deals with the Pentagon. The company is scheduled to issue its quarterly earnings report Wednesday.

Falling profit margins have been one of the biggest concerns among defense investors, despite companies� soaring sales. The sector has shed much of the stock-price gains that followed Russia�s invasion of Ukraine nearly two years ago, with the biggest U.S. companies down an average of 10% in 2023, underperforming the S&P 500. The sector is flat this year. �In an environment of low inflation, people did step to the line and made bids because they were big, important programs,� said TD Cowen defense-industry analyst Cai von Rumohr. �Most everybody is getting religion now, but you don�t know how many companies have contracts in the closet that might have some risk to them.�

Pentagon leaders said they are taking steps to alleviate future problems with more flexible contracts. �We need ways to account for unexpected economic conditions,� said Gen. James Rainey, head of Army Futures Command, which runs the military branch�s modernization programs. �We�re not just asking industry to completely eat all that increase.� The defense budget for fiscal year 2023, which ended Sept. 30, included a pot of more than $1 billion to compensate contractors for inflation, but little has been paid out.

Mike McCord, the Pentagon�s chief financial officer, said companies hadn�t provided enough information to the department to determine whether it was material and labor inflation or inefficiencies at play.

The biggest risk for the Pentagon is that it receives no bids for some programs, or only from a company that can�t fully meet project specifications, said military experts.

The Defense Department already faces a shrinking band of prime contractors, responsible for building ships, aircraft and munitions, with only two or three typically pursuing deals. It was often double that 30 years ago. Northrop Grumman is a product of the 1990s merger boom. The company was once a specialist in making jet fighters for the U.S. Navy. It pivoted into satellites and parts for planes such as the F-35 before its breakthrough win for the B-21 in 2015.

Nearly four years later, it beat Boeing to win another marquee deal to replace aging Minuteman nuclear missiles that dot the Great Plains. The Pentagon last week said the program, known as Sentinel, was running late and expected to run over budget. The initial phase is a cost-plus deal, so the Pentagon would have to pay any extra expenses. It has yet to issue contracts for later stages, including the rebuilding of missile silos.

Northrop Grumman warned last year that it faced a potential loss in producing the first B-21 bombers. The plane was unveiled in December 2022 at a rare but flashy ceremony at the company�s plant in Palmdale, Calif., north of Los Angeles, a place that is home to some of the Pentagon�s most secretive projects. A test plane flew for the first time in November 2023. The Air Force wants to buy at least 100 aircraft, originally priced at around $750 million each, though the first planes off the production line tend to cost more. The actual cost of the planes now being built by Northrop Grumman hasn�t been disclosed.

The company said it recorded an accounting charge when the Pentagon declined to cover higher costs resulting from the project. Dave Keffer, Northrop Grumman�s finance chief, said there is still a possibility Congress will authorize additional funding to help counter inflation in the fiscal year 2024 budget.

the hate of fixed price contracts form the wsj is actually funnier then it seems at first glance. the mic is getting eaten from the bottom up by inflation and is unable to pass that cost to the pentagon lol. also obligatory falling rate of profit.

it's fine though we're not like those russians or chinese with their one dimensional and inefficient state defense companies

# ? Feb 1, 2024 05:07

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

https://news.yahoo.com/houthi-missile-got-close-us-221324399.html

They're getting closer. Can't really imagine of a stupider use of irreplaceable assets, but declining empire's gotta declining empire.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 08:27

Burn Zone: May 22, 2004

the us is losing ww3 but maybe they�ll legalize weed nationally in the next decade

# ? Feb 1, 2024 08:37

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

skooma512 posted:

They had to take a second mordida at that apple that decade to make up for Grenada, in Panama. He's still in a US jail after being a US puppet lmao.

I still think Bush I's term was just tying up loose ends from CIA, Noriega and Saddam.

Meanwhile Chavez stayed winning till the end.

sullat posted:

When i was 10 or so an older kid told me that each president got to pick on some little state so he'd feel like a big man... Reagan got Grenada and Bush was getting Panama. Little did we know Bush would get two wars but hey, the kid wasn't wrong.

Big Man theory.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 10:56

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Orange Devil posted:

Big Manchild theory.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 12:43

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Danann posted:

Why Defense Contractors Are Saying No to Their Biggest Customer: The Pentagon

the hate of fixed price contracts form the wsj is actually funnier then it seems at first glance. the mic is getting eaten from the bottom up by inflation and is unable to pass that cost to the pentagon lol. also obligatory falling rate of profit.

it's fine though we're not like those russians or chinese with their one dimensional and inefficient state defense companies

US govt: i can't believe i keep getting owned by the actual ruling class

# ? Feb 1, 2024 13:12

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/dotorii_muk/status/1752382475098276291

the days of the elite being shamed by lack of infrastructure in the us is over

China is winning/will win the new cold war literally just through infrastructure building.

Talking to local/state politicians directly is a pretty solid strategy too. Even Gavin Newsom, who transparently has presidential ambitions for 2028, rolled out the red carpet for Xi.

VoicesCanBe has issued a correction as of 15:28 on Feb 1, 2024

# ? Feb 1, 2024 15:21

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Didn't a bunch of SEALs get owned in Panama?

# ? Feb 1, 2024 15:36

Seyser Koze: Dec 15, 2013; Mucho Mucho; Nap Ghost

skooma512 posted:

They had to take a second mordida at that apple that decade to make up for Grenada, in Panama. He's still in a US jail after being a US puppet lmao.

Noriega died a few years ago, actually.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 15:57

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

vaxxed?

# ? Feb 1, 2024 16:06

Justin Tyme: Feb 22, 2011

VoicesCanBe posted:

China is winning/will win the new cold war literally just through infrastructure building.

Talking to local/state politicians directly is a pretty solid strategy too. Even Gavin Newsom, who transparently has presidential ambitions for 2028, rolled out the red carpet for Xi.

You can go look at some Chinese city you've never even heard of in Google maps and it looks more impressive than any city in the US, it's insane to think the US is better than China at anything and if we are they're only 5-10 years behind catching up.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 16:06

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018

Justin Tyme posted:

You can go look at some Chinese city you've never even heard of in Google maps and it looks more impressive than any city in the US, it's insane to think the US is better than China at anything and if we are they're only 5-10 years behind catching up.

They are 20 years behind on Cinematic Universes.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 16:50

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018

It did occur to me recently that if anyone in government was smart or gave a poo poo, they would have gotten involved with the SAG strike on the side of the actors. Cultural Capital is one thing we still have going strong, and, properly managed, could keep going for decades. If the US film industry goes all in on AI-generated content, that�s is a genuine threat to America's standing in the world. If anybody with a decent computer can AI generate an Ant-Man 5 that�s the same quality as the one Disney generated, what�s the point of Hollywood?

# ? Feb 1, 2024 16:55

Burn Zone: May 22, 2004

DancingShade posted:

Artillery schmillery. What we really need is Google AI pilots for our 6th or 7th generation airplanes, where you authenticate yourself as the human operator by plugging your smartphone into the console. The AI does all the hard work for you like taking off, landing, stall prevention etc.

To reflect the intellectual capabilities of our future best & brightest gradates of the modern education system all internal controls will be removed except for a single wired Xbox controller. Simulator training will just be "complete the Ace Combat video game".

didnt someone do this with a submarine last year

# ? Feb 1, 2024 17:04

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

ace combat loads 88 missiles and a minigun cannon on an F35

# ? Feb 1, 2024 17:18

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Everyone in Japan just assumes that's an Area 88 reference.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 17:21

SixteenShells: Sep 30, 2021

ace combat makes warthunder look like MS flight sim

fun as gently caress though

# ? Feb 1, 2024 17:21

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

always funny blasting refugee tents with air to air missiles for bonus points, no idea how the game designers didn�t catch that in QA

# ? Feb 1, 2024 18:54

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

Gripweed posted:

They are 20 years behind on Cinematic Universes.

Who needs those when you've got Journey to the West right there

# ? Feb 1, 2024 18:55

hubris.height: Jan 6, 2005; Pork Pro

Burn Zone posted:

the us is losing ww3 but maybe they’ll legalize weed nationally in the next decade

just in time for page 420

# ? Feb 1, 2024 19:14

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

I'm convinced nationally legal cannabis will never happen. I don't know why nor can I offer any explanation, this is just a thing I feel to be factual.

# ? Feb 1, 2024 19:22

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# ? May 26, 2024 16:29

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

federal decriminalization is my only hope; the dairy state is in the grip of the TAVERN LEAGUE who think as long as the devil's lettuce is verboten we will turn to the bottle

# ? Feb 1, 2024 19:26

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