r/relationships: I have nothing against this baby.

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the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

My parents occasionally mention when my anniversary's coming up, I think a sibling has commented once or twice. It's nice but I can't imagine it being such a highlight of my existence that I'd be bummed if they never noted it. But then, she does say she's struggling with depression for other reasons and she seems to have latched onto this somehow, possibly as a way to self-justify her depression. "Oh, if only [deliberately implausible and unattainable goal] happened then I could be happy and normal again, but alas, I guess I will have to continue being depressed" is a common thought pattern in depression.

edit: just to be clear this is not intended to blame depressed people for their disordered thinking, just saying this is one of the ways it can manifest

the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Feb 2, 2024

# ? Feb 2, 2024 16:16

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# ? May 17, 2024 13:32

Kitfox88: Aug 21, 2007; Anybody lose their glasses?

deported to Canada posted:

My brother and SIL got married on the same day as my birthday, they asked me in advance if it would bother me and it truly didn't matter at all. It was nice during the reception when I got to my seat and found a present at my spot and a little party hat.

Now every year when they call to wish me a happy birthday I feel obliged to wish them a happy anniversary, so I guess I'm one of those people. Otherwise I can't see why I'd bother remembering I suppose.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 16:19

PhysicsFrenzy: May 30, 2011; this, too, is physics

My parents' anniversary is September 11. Never gonna forget that one :v:

# ? Feb 2, 2024 16:45

kdrudy: Sep 19, 2009

PhysicsFrenzy posted:

My parents' anniversary is September 11. Never gonna forget that one

Because you love your parents?

# ? Feb 2, 2024 16:47

Space Kablooey: May 6, 2009

"never forgive, never forget" has to hit differently for you and your parents

# ? Feb 2, 2024 16:48

StrangersInTheNight: Dec 31, 2007; ABSOLUTE FUCKING GUDGEON

A love so strong, it changed the western world

# ? Feb 2, 2024 17:17

wheatpuppy: Apr 25, 2008; YOU HAVE MY POST!

Jet fuel can't melt my heart.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 17:18

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

# ? Feb 2, 2024 17:23

Zorak of Michigan: Jun 10, 2006

BrideOfUglycat posted:

One of the best things about being married forever is being able to have the arguments in your head before you have them in person. So, you know what your partner is going to say, you get your responses in a row, and partway through that realize it's stupid and not worth arguing over. There are many arguments in my house that have been circumvented this way.

This can get toxic as hell when it goes wrong, though. I have a friend who got good at playing that game as her marriage was going bad and more fights kept happening. She'd try to play out the fights in her head to figure out which ones were worth having out loud, but I noticed that she'd start to talk as though the fights she imagined were actually real. She'd be talking to me, an uninvolved third party, about why she hadn't talked to her wife about something, and why she hadn't brought it up, and how it was so frustrating that her wife was so stubborn, and I'm like... but you're only assuming she would be stubborn, if the conversation did happen. I don't think the marriage could have been saved anyway, but I told her that if she ever had a disagreement with me, I expected her to have an actual conversation about it, not an imagined one.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 17:24

trickybiscuits: Jan 13, 2008; yospos

the holy poopacy posted:

My parents occasionally mention when my anniversary's coming up, I think a sibling has commented once or twice. It's nice but I can't imagine it being such a highlight of my existence that I'd be bummed if they never noted it. But then, she does say she's struggling with depression for other reasons and she seems to have latched onto this somehow, possibly as a way to self-justify her depression. "Oh, if only [deliberately implausible and unattainable goal] happened then I could be happy and normal again, but alas, I guess I will have to continue being depressed" is a common thought pattern in depression.

edit: just to be clear this is not intended to blame depressed people for their disordered thinking, just saying this is one of the ways it can manifest

I read this after posting the AAM letter below, but it was great timing

I responded angrily to a rejection � can I get them to consider me again?

quote:

A reader writes:

I�ve applied twice to a long established small theater troupe on a farm. I followed the specific instructions to apply to this summer and last summer�s first session apprenticeship.

Well, last year I was rejected and here starts the problem. It seems I must have missed the deadline because their response said they were full. When I read the rejection email, unfortunately I reacted defensively and aggressively. I wasn�t used to being rejected, and this is a small dream I so wish to fulfill and I really desperately needed and wanted to go away last summer.

Fast forward to this March. I applied again by writing another letter to same coordinator. This time I was not only on time with their strict deadline, but early! I also sent it certified mail by the post office and tracked it until said it arrived.

When I hadn�t gotten any response by the date she had replied with a rejection mail last year (May 8), I decided to try calling her. I was told by someone to email her as that only way to contact her. A few days to another week passed with no response, so I wrote asking for a yes or no answer to my application. I then wrote few days later, but I think more demanded a reply.

So finally a week before the session I applied to was to begin, the coordinator finally responded. She apologized for waiting so long to reply. She goes on explain that she delayed because she �did not know how to respond.� She said she saw a few red flags from my reaction to her rejection last year and I was too demanding in asking for answers, and that being a part of a team is integral. (I know this well. That feeling I had of being part of a theater team was why I joined back in thee 90�s for three magical days. They came to my college and I joined.) Also, she explains that the farm is a very intensive, co-op type of environment, with camping, an outhouse, and most of all working and living together, pulling your own weight, etc.

I can see her perspective, of course. The �red flags� could be a tad bit of � anger, maybe trust issues. But I believe and know that most of these would be eased and I could handle myself and hold my own. Because (1) I would feel accepted by my dream, and (2) I thrive when I�m doing my passion. I�m in love with the theater creative process. I would be too busy for any negativity.

I�m writing here to ask if you could please give me advice to get me a second look or chance for the last session? Would there be any way of writing to change her mind?

I didn�t tell you worst part of her second rejection email. She mentioned red flags and instead offers that they will be in New York later this year, and �if you feel you can get up there and stay on your dime, of course we will allow you to join us there.� She then says if she thinks it work out, then the following year I should apply again. (Total of three times!?)

I�m 50 and even though they take all ages, apparently this is it for me. My health is getting worse and I�m losing hope in this long-time dream I always wanted or thought would come true.

quote:
This particular theater isn�t going to be the one that fulfills your long-time dream, I�m sorry.

Generally, when you send a hostile response to a rejection, that closes that door permanently. When an organization has lots of applicants (or even when they don�t), it just doesn�t make sense to take a risk on someone who has been hostile and aggressive toward them. That�s true of any employer, but it�s especially true in a set-up where you�ll be living with people and working so closely with them. It wouldn�t be fair to the other people there for them to risk bringing in someone who, with very limited contact, has already shown they�re willing to be rude and lash out when they�re disappointed. They�re of course going to worry about how you�ll respond when something else doesn�t go your way once you�re there. They can�t take that risk.

You say that you think your tendency toward anger would be eased if they accepted you. Maybe that�s true � but it�s also one of those things that people tend to want to believe about themselves even when it doesn�t turn out to be true. Either way, though, it�s not reasonable to ask them to take that risk. Keep in mind that they have very few data points about you � they�ve had really limited contact with you, and each of those contacts has gone badly. They can�t responsibly bring you on, given what they�ve seen so far.

That means that no, you definitely should not write back and try to change their minds. Part of the problem here is that you�ve already demonstrated that you�re not good with hearing �no.� Pushing back again would reinforce that impression.

Frankly, they�ve already been incredibly generous with the offer to join them in New York at your own expense. If you really want to pursue this, you could take them up on that offer and make sure you behave impeccably while you�re there. But to be honest, I�m concerned that you�ve already created an impression with them that will be hard to overcome, and you�re probably better off accepting that this particular group won�t be the one for you, and instead finding another where you can start fresh.

It sounds like this particular group was a dream for you. But all of us realize at one point or another that not all dreams get fulfilled, or at least not exactly the way we originally envision them. That can be painful, but it gets less painful when you realize how universal that experience is.

However, none of this means that you�re shut out of theater forever. It just means that this one theater group � out of thousands � is closed to you. There are others. Why not explore local community theaters to start with? You can find ways to involve yourself in theater if that�s what you want to do. But respect what you�re hearing from this group.

quote:

OP, they are offering a relatively safe way for you to prove that your claim that your anger issues would be under control and you consider that the WORST part of the rejection? Do you realize that this is shows that your issues are almost certainly NOT going to automatically come under control when you get the position? Because your reaction is so out of line with reality that your self assessment is totally unreliable, and the reality of this experience is not going match your expectations.

quote:

It struck me as very strange that OP felt effectively entitled to a slot (barring problems with application timing). I�m honestly surprised that Alison didn�t come down on that just as hard as she comes down on anyone else who feels they�re �owed� a job because they want it so much, need it so much, have visualized it so thoroughly, or because it�s their �dream job.�

OP, this isn�t �yours.� Never was. Wanting doesn�t make something so.

�You submitted late� doesn�t come with the implication, �but we otherwise would have welcomed you with open arms.� Late submission was the fatal flaw that meant your prior application wasn�t even considered. Your second application was considered, and presumably rejected on its merits (perhaps along with your strange presumptions, odd pushiness, etc) along with many others.

You ended up acting weird and inappropriate, and got caught out substituting your wishful thinking for reality. That�s almost certainly going to be a hard �no� for the company, so long as they remember it (which will be for several years to come).

As for your age and health, �wanting this now� or �needing this now� is no more relevant here, than it would be for getting hired to flip burgers. Or explaining why you should get a raise. You don�t get hired or paid based on what reality you desire, need, or intend to manifest. It�s just not a thing.

yikes

trickybiscuits fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Feb 2, 2024

# ? Feb 2, 2024 17:45

Captain Hygiene: Sep 17, 2007; You mess with the crabbo...

I feel uncultured, somehow I've never heard of this magical farm theater lifestyle.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 17:52

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

I think in situations like this the coordinator should be upfront and say "From the way you've communicated with us, you're not somebody we want to be our coworker slash creative collaborator slash roommate slash someone we trust not to poison our drinking water. Your dreams are your responsibility, not ours."

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:04

PhysicsFrenzy: May 30, 2011; this, too, is physics

but you dont understand, i did this for three entire ~*magical*~ days thirty years ago, it is my passion

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:10

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Here's a weird estranged parent story.

It sucks when your kids don't get it.

OP posted:

My daughter and her family came over yesterday. We were sitting in the patio yesterday. I asked her what are plans for the next couple of weeks. She said she's planning on taking a trip with our grandson to San Francisco. My son-in-law said he's going to be chilling at home, laughingly. I asked why he isn't he coming. She told me that her son wanted to just with his mom.

This is the biggest issue. The family only makes money for two vacations a year. They have already had a family trip this January. So, I suggested them to drop off our grandson so they can go on a couple's trip. My son-in-law interjected and said it fine because they went on their anniversary trip last August and they can go next year. I asked him won't you feel excluded. He said not really because he wants to do camping with just his son one day and he "gets it'. I told them they already do a family trip, why they do they need to do individual trips? Then my daughter by saying it's only no big deal because she looks forward for time with just her son.

I told them "Look do what you want put I told you to put the marriage first. You've only got 8 years left with the boy. I've never went anywhere without your mother.". She responded "With all due respect, I am making my marriage a priority. However (their son), is just as important to me as my husband. I love spending time with him just as much as (her husband). Her husband " I feel the same exact way." She the responds the thicker that sent my wife crying after they left with "I love my son way more than you probably have ever loved me and that's fine." My wife told us drop it and told her to have a great trip.

She doesn't get that loving her son means loving her husband. Whatever plans or desires they have should matter more than with their kid wants. I am not saying to neglect their son, but they give each other more love and attention. It will help their son out in the end.

OP, in update, posted:

Well, I apologized to my daughter. I couldn't help myself but ask what she meant when she loved her son more than we ever loved her.

She was very blunt and told me how it sucked to be second place in our family. She said that the love my wife and I had for each other overshadowed the love we had for her and her brother. She mentions various incidents such as when she greeted me with a picture she drew as a little kid when I came back from work but I told her to wait so I could greet my wife first. She hated the fact we always sat next to each other even when the kids complained abut it. She said it hurts that the marriage mattered more than the individual relationship we had with each kid. What was I kick in the guts was when she outright admitted she mostly keeps a relationship for the sake of her son. She wouldn't even visit half the amount she if it wasn't for her son.

I don't know where to go from here.

OP, in comments, posted:

I'll admit I should have kept my opinions to myself. I probably call her and apologize. That comment was hurtful tho.

I mean I don't get it. We didn't neglect her. We always had family dinner. I used to take her to the movies myself. We always listened to her. However, our marriage came first. We would always go on a couples trip irrespective if we did or didn't have family trip done before. We always presented a united front. We always greeted each other first before anyone else in the house when we came back for work We always sat next to each other no exception after kids turned 5. We never disagreed with each other openly when either of us made a mistake with the kids.

But how can your kids be just as important as your spouse?

We both made a deal we would save the kids in a life or death situation. However if both came to me about doing activities , I would choose my wife 9/10 times.

We also did that. My daughter wanted the same level of attention and love we give to each other. Why? [Why] do kids need to feel like they're equally important?

They themselves admit they weren't neglected. My daughter is upset she came 2nd to my wife and I.

What a strange way to grow up. Your parents don't abuse or neglect you, but they do take every single opportunity to demonstrate that you are of secondary importance to ~*ThEiR sOuLmAtE aNd PaRtNeR*~. I'd say I hope the parents enjoy their twilight years together when their kids move away, refuse to visit, and go low contact, but would they even notice?

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:13

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

FMguru posted:

Here's a weird estranged parent story.

It sucks when your kids don't get it.

What a strange way to grow up. Your parents don't abuse or neglect you, but they do take every single opportunity to demonstrate that you are of secondary importance to ~*ThEiR sOuLmAtE aNd PaRtNeR*~. I'd say I hope the parents enjoy their twilight years together when their kids move away, refuse to visit, and go low contact, but would they even notice?

What in tarnation. Is this guy a sociopath or something? I can't even imagine not putting my kid first. 9 times out of 10, if his daughter asked to do something with him growing up, he'd do something with his wife instead???? Pure insanity :psyduck:

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:22

wheatpuppy: Apr 25, 2008; YOU HAVE MY POST!

FMguru posted:

Here's a weird estranged parent story.

It sucks when your kids don't get it.

What a strange way to grow up. Your parents don't abuse or neglect you, but they do take every single opportunity to demonstrate that you are of secondary importance to ~*ThEiR sOuLmAtE aNd PaRtNeR*~. I'd say I hope the parents enjoy their twilight years together when their kids move away, refuse to visit, and go low contact, but would they even notice?

For some reason this part stands out to me:

quote:

We both made a deal we would save the kids in a life or death situation

I don't know why. It's perfectly reasonable to have discussions like "what would we do if the house caught fire" but somehow I imagine it like them resentfully drawing straws to see who *has* to save the kids.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:25

Pope Corky the IX: Dec 18, 2006; What are you looking at?

They come off as two people that never actually wanted children but had them anyway because that's just what you're supposed to do.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:29

Peg Sliderskew: Jan 4, 2010

FMguru posted:

Here's a weird estranged parent story.

It sucks when your kids don't get it.

What a strange way to grow up. Your parents don't abuse or neglect you, but they do take every single opportunity to demonstrate that you are of secondary importance to ~*ThEiR sOuLmAtE aNd PaRtNeR*~. I'd say I hope the parents enjoy their twilight years together when their kids move away, refuse to visit, and go low contact, but would they even notice?

Why? Why do kids feel they should be as important as the Real Humans in the family?

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:34

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

tired: you shouldn't treat pets as members of the family because they're with you such a short period of time
wired: you shouldn't treat children as members of the family because they're with you such a short period of time

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:40

SulfurMonoxideCute: Feb 9, 2008; I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

I think it should be okay for two events to share the same date. I'm sorry if my controversial take offends anybody.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:44

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Peg Sliderskew posted:

Why? Why do kids feel they should be as important as the Real Humans in the family?

My favorite bit was this quote from the father "I am not saying to neglect their son, but they give each other more love and attention. It will help their son out in the end. ", which he gives to the daughter who just told him point-blank how much she despised always being second place to their parents mutual affection and how much it hosed her up.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:47

Captain Hygiene: Sep 17, 2007; You mess with the crabbo...

Forever angry about finally having a day to celebrate that's all about me and me alone, only for my twin to show up four minutes later and ruin everything :argh:

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:47

Pope Corky the IX: Dec 18, 2006; What are you looking at?

It seems like there may have been little to no physical affection as well with the "always sat next to each other" comment.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:48

Scathach: Apr 4, 2011; You know that thing where you sleep on your arm funny and when you wake up it's all numb? Yeah that's my whole world right now.

SulfurMonoxideCute posted:

I think it should be okay for two events to share the same date. I'm sorry if my controversial take offends anybody.

Apparently I did this wrong, I should've made my wedding like my MIL's birthday or something. Just for funsies.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:55

SulfurMonoxideCute: Feb 9, 2008; I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

It's also possible to care about more than one person at a time. Those kids were competing with their own mom for their dad's attention. And they lost every single time because he made it a goal to ensure they would always lose.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:56

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

That man sees taking his daughter to a movie that his wife doesn't want to see as a loving sacrifice.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 18:59

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

Halloween Jack posted:

I think in situations like this the coordinator should be upfront and say "From the way you've communicated with us, you're not somebody we want to be our coworker slash creative collaborator slash roommate slash someone we trust not to poison our drinking water. Your dreams are your responsibility, not ours."

That�s just going to result in more pushback from a crazy person like this. The troupe has already been more accommodating than is reasonable, the right thing to do at this point is to be as direct and succinct as possible - �your application has been rejected and we will not consider future applications from you.�

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:07

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

One of the commenters links to this similar story from two years ago, also about parents who largely ignored their kid because they were so focused on being a ~*lOvInG cOuPle*~

Did we mess up with our son? He blew up at us during dinner + UPDATE

OP posted:

My wife (42F) and I (45M) were having dinner with our only son (23M) two weeks ago. We're celebrating the fact that he got into one of the top ten Phd programs for physics. We were having dinner with each other at our house.

My son has no past issues. He's smart, social, caring, and hard working boy. He has a good set of friends and an amazing girlfriend. I am just completely shocked at what happened.

The Argument: Both of us were congratulating him on his achievement and told him how we were so proud of the fact he was the first to get a phd in the entire family. He said thanks as usual. My wife reminded him to make it a priority to maintain contact with us when moves to start his Phd. For some he just snapped at that moment. He stopped eating for a moment and with a stern look he asked "why". I didn't know why he waske angry I just wanted to defuse a potential fight and jokingly said "cause we're your parents silly". Then he said "well your job is done now, you don't need to be bothered me, you have more time for each other now." His mom asked what's the matter. He said he doesn't understand why does he have to force himself to maintain contact with his parents who loved each other more than him. We were shocked and asked what makes him think like that. He went on his rant. And said we may love him but he was mostly a job for us that we needed breaks from. He mentioned up till starting college in the three to four vacations of two to the three weeks we take in a year, we mostly went without him and "dumped him at our parents places" ( it's true though most of our trips have been as couples since the beginning). This isn't his first time bringing it up.) He mentioned for majority of the weekends we had we looked forward to our date nights more than spending time with him. He said he felt that while we did love him he was always at the backseat of our relationship. I told him needed our own couple time too. He said that he understood that but it seemed for him that moments of fun we always preferred to spend it as a couple. The major thing that kicked me in the balls was when he said one of the major reasons he enjoyed college is that he longer needed us for emotional support. He said he enjoyed spending time with his friends than spending time with us. He said that's wht he wanted to dorm for his four years. Before he left, he said he was tired of being part of a family that placed him second when it came to love, especially when it wasn't his choice and he wanted to equally loved. He left dinner that night without a goodbye and hasn't contacted us since then. Me and his mom were bawling our eyes out everyday since then. We can't sleep at night at all. The worst part is that since he doesn't need us financially anymore he can cut us out his life with no drawbacks.

Did we mess up with him as parents? In our eyes we did everything we're supposed to as parents. We loved him, fed him, sheltered him, paid for his tuition, and spend time with him (apparently not enough). Forgive me if I didn't articulate myself properly, it's hurts righting this. What should we do? Did we go wrong? Advice is needed. Thank you all

OP, in update, posted:

It just last Friday, my wife and I just came in physical contact with our son. A lot of stuff has happened between the time we last him storming out on us during dinner and meeting him last Friday. First week we kept calling our son five times a day and leave him three voicemails daily. We never heard him pick up the phone. Within the second week his girlfriend picked up his phone one day and told us he living with her at her apartment but doesn't want to see us. She told us to give him time to cool down. Meanwhile our lives at home was getting screwed over. The first couple of weeks, all of our energy was put into getting into contact with him and visit us. We knew where his girlfriend lived and my wife wanted to make personal visit but I warned her showing up at his doorstep uninvited is only going to make the situation worse. We called our family members to persuade him to talk to us. It didn't matter if we had his grandparents, aunts, uncles, to call him but his response was politely telling them he is willing to talk to them about anything but us and apologized if he inconvenienced them. We realized our method wasn't working. We decided to go for counseling and therapy for not only for trying to reconnect with him but to also process our emotions through the difficult times. We slowly stopped overwhelming him with our attempts to contact him. Both our counselor suggested we respect his boundaries and let him make the first move. So we decided to leave a voicemail to his phone that we will bothering him but our door is always to him. These three months was painful to say the least. Our sex life decreased significantly. There was time my wife started crying in the middle of it since it reminded her of the time we let him cry out his nightmare when he was 3 years old but still didn't let him enter our room because we were in the middle of having sex and we wanted to finish. We didn't go on any date nights or outside of the house for that fatter. My wife and I became homebodies. A lot of guilt was was plaguing us. That guilt led to a time of introspection. We started doing research on family dynamics during our spare time. We asked questions to ourselves such as: Did we spend enough time with him? Did he feel like a burden to our relationship? Were we wrong to put our relationship first over a relationship with him? We wanted to be aware what was going on his life so we used to follow him on social media. We checked his facebook page everyday.That was big mistake. We found out that he proposed to his girlfriend last month and she said yes. We found out through a post on his facebook page. Yes that's right. We, the parents, found out the engagement of our only child through loving facebook. Jesus loving Christ. As if we weren't already in enough pain. We were stuck in the same cycle again for the past until he finally reached out to us. We got a call from our son this past Monday. and it was like a positive sign from the Universe. He said he wanted talk about our relationship. He asked if he could come to our house this Thursday with his girlfriend for support. We obviously said a resounding yes. We anxious I didn't expect it to be a tearful reunion but definitely a good step in reconciliation. My wife and I discussed with each other about how to lead the conversation. We both agreed to apologize any anguish we caused and to listen to what he has to say first. When came this Thursday. We sat impatiently waiting for him after we came back from work. When he ranged the doorbell and he opened the, there was no sense of warmth from him but a reluctant smile. His girlfriend almost felt sad being here. I had a feeling that night. They both refused any drinks we offered to them. My son felt extremely uncomfortable being there. My wife told him that if he wanted to speak first that he should.

This is what he said to us: He apologized to us if he caused us any emotional turmoil. He said his resentment started building up ever since he was little. There were alot about our behavior that contributed to his point of view. He felt like having kids was more of a checklist that we wanted to complete instead of being actively interested in being a parents and having a deep bond as a parent [attn: Corky]. He said that whenever there was a disagreement with one of us that had always take each other sides over his. It felt like there was an us vs him type family dynamic. Whenever we came back home from work we looked forward to seeing each other than him. When it came to spending time with him it felt like doing stuff with him was physically and emotionally draining with him. Like we needed a break from him after having a break with him. One on one time felt like it was even more taxing to us according to him. He also said that there were time we wanted to spend with each other He also said that we lit up when we wanted to spend time as a couple. He said that we made that we put more effort into having our date nights and couple time than spending time with him. He said we seemed more upset when we couldn't have couple time over having family time. The fact that we spent our vacation as a couple than as a family compounded the problem. He found it bizarre when we claimed we missed him after he came back from our trips. When he was young he cried when we showed him pictures of our trips. We comforted by saying we love him but we need our couple time. He said that even made hime more upset. He felt like we were using our parents (his grandparents) as our impromptu babysitters. He said that this feeling was further corroborated when visits significantly decreased when he grew older. He said he gave up on having a relationship on us when he entered high school. He said he put more effort and time into his academics so he could use his energy in a more productive manner than on us. He said it didn't come as a surprise we didn't notice because we never formed a close bound with him to notice such things. He said his academics and friendships satisfied him more than spending time with us. Eventually we were just roommates to him. He became apathetic when we didn't spend time with him and turned us down many times. We always thought he was too busy for us. He said that his bond with us weakened even more during college. He never missed us and he got annoyed when we asked to meet him and complain about him not calling us often. He said he cried sometimes because he felt guilty of not missing us. He also said one of the reasons he did well in his academics was because he wanted to do well in other aspects in his life such as following his passion in his physics and he wanted to lead a happy life with us barely or entirely out of it. That's when he started tearing up at that moment. It still hurts him that the reason he successful is today because he wanted to get away from us. He said he felt free when he went to college and now he is soon going to grad school this fall on the other side of the country. The past few months. he realized alot of new things.

He concluded by stating what wants for the future. He said he is very grateful for what we did for him such as paying for college. He will financially support us if we ever need it or be present when an emergency or family crisis occurs. Aside from that, we are not a priority in his life at all. We shouldn't be demanding phone calls and or him visiting us anymore. He said he shouldn't be forced to maintain a strong relationship with us but we never cultured it while we raised him. He states that family or not, an adult isn't obligated to have and maintain a relationship with any other adult. He said he was stuck in a relationship with us he didn't want to have until he became independent. He no longer regrets his decision. He said in the end of the day we chose to be his parents not the other way around. We could have found ways to bond him and find common ground and stuff to do with him so it didn't feel like a burden to be a parent to him. We never incorporated him in our lives and saw being a parent akin to a job. We had every opportunity to form that close bond with him and we never took it. Before he left he said he wished us a happy and healthy life for us and we're invited to his wedding if we want to come.

Time froze after he left and we were flabbergasted to what happened. It was like he divorced us. My door is always open to him and I hope one day he can forgive us for the way we treated him. However, I don't how to move on with this possibly permanent estrangement. Any suggestion? Thank for reading this. Writing this alleviated my anxiety a little bit. Jack, I still love you son. Please come back. I'm sorry.

Update: There is so much judgement from you guys. I believe that the spouse comes first. Your kids eventually will leave you but the spouse stays with you till the end. I maybe didn't have a proper balance, but no parent is perfect. I need help to get him to understand that we love him and we're sorry.

e: Correction - the original story (and update) are from five years ago.

FMguru fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Feb 2, 2024

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:11

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

FMguru posted:

One of the commenters links to this similar story from two years ago, also about parents who largely ignored their kid because they were so focused on being a ~*lOvInG cOuPle*~

Did we mess up with our son? He blew up at us during dinner + UPDATE

Oh my god dude.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:18

quantumwell: Jun 22, 2013

Pope Corky the IX posted:

It seems like there may have been little to no physical affection as well with the "always sat next to each other" comment.

Whenever I see a couple sitting next to each other in a restaurant booth with no one on the other side it weirds me out. Now I know why.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:19

TheDeadlyShoe: Feb 14, 2014

trickybiscuits posted:

OP, this isn�t �yours.� Never was. Wanting doesn�t make something so.

ah, but in the famous and true book The Alchemist,,,,

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:22

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

quantumwell posted:

Whenever I see a couple sitting next to each other in a restaurant booth with no one on the other side it weirds me out. Now I know why.

What if they don�t have children? Sitting across from a partner is weirder if anything, you have to talk louder and sharing anything is more difficult.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:22

big mean giraffe: Dec 13, 2003; Eat Shit and Die; Lipstick Apathy

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

What if they don’t have children? Sitting across from a partner is weirder if anything, you have to talk louder and sharing anything is more difficult.

What kind of weird giant tables are you eating at?

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:24

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

Any normal table or booth at a restaurant that can take 4 people but gets seated with 2? You are way closer to someone without being in their way sitting on adjacent rather than opposite sides.

2 people sitting on one side and leaving 3 empty is weird unless it�s some sort of long communal table though.

AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Feb 2, 2024

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:26

Pope Corky the IX: Dec 18, 2006; What are you looking at?

What?

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:27

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Biplane posted:

Oh my god dude.

Three-to-four multi-week "couples only" vacations, year after year, with the kid dumped at the grandparents. Plus "date nights" every weekend while your kid stayed home alone (or was dumped off at the GPs.)

It's amazing.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:28

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

Any normal table or booth at a restaurant that can take 4 people but gets seated with 2? You are way closer to someone without being in their way sitting on adjacent rather than opposite sides.

2 people sitting on one side and leaving 3 empty is weird unless it’s some sort of long communal table though.

Mods???

FMguru posted:

Three-to-four multi-week "couples only" vacations, year after year, with the kid dumped at the grandparents. Plus "date nights" every weekend while your kid stayed home alone (or was dumped off at the GPs.)

It's amazing.

Completely unhinged behavior. And the air of innocent bewilderment; "did we do something wrong by ignoring our son for 20 years?"
Infuriating.

Biplane fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Feb 2, 2024

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:29

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

Any normal table or booth at a restaurant that can take 4 people but gets seated with 2? You are way closer to someone without being in their way sitting on adjacent rather than opposite sides.

You shouldn't really have to raise your voice to have a conversation with someone across a restaurant booth. I kinda get it if it's more of a bar sort of ambience though.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:29

Pope Corky the IX: Dec 18, 2006; What are you looking at?

I mean, the thunderstorm happens every twenty-two minutes so you have to shout anyway.

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:31

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 17, 2024 13:32

A Wizard of Goatse: Dec 14, 2014

Halloween Jack posted:

I think in situations like this the coordinator should be upfront and say "From the way you've communicated with us, you're not somebody we want to be our coworker slash creative collaborator slash roommate slash someone we trust not to poison our drinking water. Your dreams are your responsibility, not ours."

They basically did. You're never going to get a explicit hard no like that from a little arts troupe/cult/polycule because if the OP isn't the type to take the hint that radically increases the odds they'll show up with a gun

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 2, 2024

# ? Feb 2, 2024 19:32

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > r/relationships: I have nothing against this baby.

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