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Foxfire_ posted:It was their ice. It was made for them. BRR BRR BRR
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Jan 17, 2024 08:15
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Alhazred posted:it's really funny that the bar for successful british polar expeditions is "none of the goals of the expedition are met, buy everybody survives". RIP Mrs. Chippy and all those god dogges too
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Jan 17, 2024 08:19
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Alhazred posted:it's really funny that the bar for successful british polar expeditions is "none of the goals of the expedition are met, buy everybody survives". The voyage of the Caird from Elephant Island to South Georgia is possibly the single most impression feat of seamanship in a open boat ever. They were only able to get a single digit number of cel nav sights in an Arctic voyage in bad weather and made it successfully.
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Jan 17, 2024 08:22
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Pookah posted:Scott was a dogshit leader compared to Shackleton I do like how Shackleton, when he and a few men were sailing to Cape Horn to try and get ANY type of help for the remainder of their expedition, surrendered his own gloves to one of his men who managed to lose their own gloves on the voyage. When the man in question tried to refuse the gloves, Shackleton apparently said something along the lines of 'you are going to wear these gloves or I am going to throw them overboard', which is a nice change of pace from the usual Alexander-the-great-esque 'if no-one can drink water, I will drink no water also' attitude.
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Jan 17, 2024 08:34
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Foxfire_ posted:It was their ice. It was made for them. Brrr Brrr Brrr.... oops, efb. Australia's arctic explorers just kept warm using porn, Mawson's hut still has (or had) his pinups above his bunk: quote:The poster, which is still there today, shows a painting of a naked woman sitting on the grass, with a fawn sitting in a tree above her. The historical pinup is not not to be confused with the controversial "Sistine Ceiling" of porn in Australia's later Mawson station which was well established by the 70s and destroyed in 2005, with the torn scraps painstakingly pieced back together into a book over the next winter. 2nd edit: It's been a interesting rabbit hole to explore, I was trying to get more clarity than half-remembered news articles from over a decade ago and I'm amazed at how much academic attention has been given to the history of porn and other art in Antarctica. The Sausages has a new favorite as of 13:27 on Jan 17, 2024 |
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Jan 17, 2024 09:24
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canyoneer posted:Oates was out of touch until he finally ran out of time He had all the hallmarks of an out-of-touch maneater, and I can't go for that
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Jan 17, 2024 11:21
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Bar Ran Dun posted:The voyage of the Caird from Elephant Island to South Georgia is possibly the single most impression feat of seamanship in a open boat ever. They were only able to get a single digit number of cel nav sights in an Arctic voyage in bad weather and made it successfully.
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Jan 17, 2024 17:13
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Alhazred posted:Not so impressive that they ended up in a situation where they had to pull such a hail Mary though. The sea will kill you. The artic seas will vengefully kill you while being hauntingly beautiful. A chief mate (little Russian guy that looked like Danny Devito) I used to work with regularly was onboard a vessel alongside in Japan when the tsunami that destroyed Fukushima hit. He cut the lines (which is fantastically dangerous these are big hawsers under tension) and the engineers got the plant running fast enough for him to get the vessel’s bow pointed into the wave. This didn’t save the vessel, but it did save all the crew. That’s a big win out at sea, when the ocean decides it wants to kill everybody.
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Jan 17, 2024 18:41
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Samovar posted:A rather morbid fact today; a lot of you may know of Scott's ill-fated antarctic expedition (probably best known is Oates departing with 'I am just going outside and may be some time'), and how all members ended up dead. Not to be a dick, but sources for this? First thing I've ever heard about it, and articles about Tryggve Gran, who found them, does not mention anything like it. The only detail mentioned is "The frost has made the skin yellow & transparent and I've never seen anything worse in my life." And they were found the November after they had died that March. Are Gran's diaries available for reading, or transcribed somewhere? Would be an interesting read. The media seems to want to prop him up as some flying hero (pilot in WW1) but he turned Quisling-sympathiser in WW2 and was jailed for it in 1948.
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Jan 17, 2024 23:11
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Bar Ran Dun posted:The sea will kill you. The artic seas will vengefully kill you while being hauntingly beautiful. Maybe so. It's still worth noting that Shackleton encountered norwegian whalers that told him that the pack ice was the worst it had ever been and tried to persuade him to delay the expedition. Shackleton waited a bit, got bored and then got trapped in the pack ice.
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Jan 18, 2024 06:04
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F4rt5 posted:Not to be a dick, but sources for this? First thing I've ever heard about it, and articles about Tryggve Gran, who found them, does not mention anything like it. The only detail mentioned is "The frost has made the skin yellow & transparent and I've never seen anything worse in my life." And they were found the November after they had died that March. Certainly, and you are not being or sounding like a dick in the slightest. It was an interview with Gabrielle Walker, who wrote 'Antarctica: An Intimate Portrait of the World's Most Mysterious Continent', on the Empire podcast (hosted by Anita Anand and William Dalrymple), episodes 110 and 111, 'Antarctica: the continent that wouldn't be conquered' and 'Shackleton: the hero of Antarctica' respectively. I give both episodes because I can't remember which of the two that info was shared (I suspect the second half of the former) but it should be in there. Samovar has a new favorite as of 08:18 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 08:10
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Samovar posted:Certainly, and you are not being or sounding like a dick in the slightest. And what was her source for this?
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Jan 18, 2024 10:34
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Samovar posted:A rather morbid fact today; a lot of you may know of Scott's ill-fated antarctic expedition (probably best known is Oates departing with 'I am just going outside and may be some time'), and how all members ended up dead. Amazing the lengths Brits will go to in order to maintain a stiff upper lip
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Jan 20, 2024 01:58
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Cool Kids Club Soda posted:Amazing the lengths Brits will go to in order to maintain a stiff upper lip in victorian times they used sap, mostly scots pine iirc a proper gentleman had a little jar of sap, and youd drag your finger over your upper lip to pucker it, tightens the skin
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Jan 20, 2024 02:03
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British sailors would make scrimshaw inserts to put behind the upper lip against the teeth to keep it stiff
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Jan 20, 2024 05:17
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Jan 20, 2024 09:14
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Samovar posted:I do like how Shackleton, when he and a few men were sailing to Cape Horn to try and get ANY type of help for the remainder of their expedition, surrendered his own gloves to one of his men who managed to lose their own gloves on the voyage. When the man in question tried to refuse the gloves, Shackleton apparently said something along the lines of 'you are going to wear these gloves or I am going to throw them overboard', which is a nice change of pace from the usual Alexander-the-great-esque 'if no-one can drink water, I will drink no water also' attitude. I've read South and The Heart of the Antarctic, and when I got to the end of South, when S and Co. were agonisingly close to getting back to the crew they left behind on Elephant Island but got repeatedly blocked by the ice, I had to stop reading because I was on the train and I was about to burst into tears when they finally got to the beach. Also, not only was the journey of the James Caird insanely difficult in the conditions, when they did find land, they had to traverse a glacier that had never previously been explored, in terrible conditions and while extremely malnourished Douglas Mawson's Home of the Blizzard is a great read too, very informative and well-written. I got to pay a visit to his statue while on holiday in NZ  Edit: I have no idea why, but I find the list of provisions that most of these books include right at the start weirdly interesting and comforting. Pookah has a new favorite as of 00:13 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 00:11
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Pookah posted:Also, not only was the journey of the James Caird insanely difficult in the conditions, when they did find land, they had to traverse a glacier that had never previously been explored, in terrible conditions and while extremely malnourished And the thing is, they didn't have to do that. They ended up having to cross the uncharted interior of South Georgia (in the middle of winter) because they were heading for the whaling station at Stromness on the northern coast, and the weather, the sailing abilities of the James Caird and the condition of the men meant they were forced to land on the southern coast. As far as Shackleton and his men knew, Stromness was the only place on the island that was inhabited year-round and with the resources to quickly mount a rescue. However during their 20-month absence another whaling station had started year-round operations in the northwest of the island, a quarter of the distance that Stromness was from their landing site and without a glacial mountain range in the way.
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Jan 24, 2024 10:03
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BalloonFish posted:And the thing is, they didn't have to do that. They ended up having to cross the uncharted interior of South Georgia (in the middle of winter) because they were heading for the whaling station at Stromness on the northern coast, and the weather, the sailing abilities of the James Caird and the condition of the men meant they were forced to land on the southern coast. I mean, if they had no way of knowing that at the time, can't blame them for doing what was the best idea for them at the time with the information they had.
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Jan 24, 2024 11:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I mean, if they had no way of knowing that at the time, can't blame them for doing what was the best idea for them at the time with the information they had. Oh, absolutely. I certainly wasn't blaming Shackleton for the decision - as you say (and as I did say...) they were working with the best information they had; they knew they had only one shot at getting help for them and the rest of the party stranded on Elephant Island so went for Stromness, where they could guarantee help would be. It was more that, in full retrospect, they drove themselves, while half-starved and badly dehydrated and with virtually no equipment and tattered, inappropriate clothing, to carry out this extraordinary feat of exploration and mountaineering (a feat that, iirc, was not achieved again for about 50 years) in horrific conditions to complete the rescue of their shipmates...when (entirely unknown to them) they could have given themselves a much easier, and quicker, time of it. Although they didn't know it, they didn't actually have to make that crossing of South Georgia. I suppose the "carrying out a glorious near-superhuman feat of endurance which in retrospect was not even necessary" just really resonates with the whole tone of Heroic Age Antarctic exploration, and Shackleton's life in particular.
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Jan 24, 2024 12:36
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Update to this post from a while ago:Carthag Tuek posted:A 5700 year-old human genome and oral microbiome from chewed birch pitch So in the summer of last year, there was this weird wave of anti-woke idiocy in Denmark where a bunch of public figures were harassed, and so even the auhtors of this study. But for the last couple years, there's been a lot of DNA analysis going on from more than a thousand graves & bog bodies all over europe and basically around ~5k years ago, theres a huge shift in the "Danish" DNA. It turns out that actually modern Danes are basically 100% descended from immigrants of Yamnaya peoples from the Pontic steppes. Our ancestors came here and killed/displaced the indiginous population. I wonder how Ukrainians fare on the woke/anti-woke scale compared to the brown skin blue eyed earlier peoples. Also a bonus: this means that most megaliths of romantic patriotism are no longer ours to claim lol https://videnskab.dk/krop-sundhed/e...-end-5-000-aar/ https://videnskab.dk/krop-sundhed/dna-forsker-det-er-ikke-for-at-vaere-woke-at-vi-illustrerer-fortidens-europaeere-med-moerk-hud/
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Feb 2, 2024 20:05
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One way or another, you will play as Pontus.
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Feb 2, 2024 20:50
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pictured: the father of all Europeans
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Feb 2, 2024 21:00
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Carthag Tuek posted:Update to this post from a while ago: I love watching people melt down on social media over poo poo like this. "Well sure the original inhabitants might have been dark skinned when they migrated to northern Europe but by 4000 BC they had been living there for hundreds of generations so why would they still be black???" as if they magically absorbed whiteness from the soil 
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Feb 2, 2024 21:18
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I love archaeological artistic recreations. "Ok so she ate duck and some hazelnuts" "Alright let's just scatter some around here. Add a bunch of ducks. Nailed it!"
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Feb 2, 2024 21:20
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Carthag Tuek posted:Also a bonus: this means that most megaliths of romantic patriotism are no longer ours to claim lol There will be a sudden surge of your countrymen attributing them to ancient aliens.
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Feb 2, 2024 21:22
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Platystemon posted:There will be a sudden surge of your countrymen attributing them to ancient aliens. Ancient illegal aliens
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Feb 2, 2024 21:26
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Platystemon posted:There will be a sudden surge of your countrymen attributing them to ancient aliens. lmao oh poo poo this is literally gonna happen the holy poopacy posted:I love watching people melt down on social media over poo poo like this. "Well sure the original inhabitants might have been dark skinned when they migrated to northern Europe but by 4000 BC they had been living there for hundreds of generations so why would they still be black???" as if they magically absorbed whiteness from the soil its so intensely weird to get hung up on it. cf also claiming superiority of lactose tolerance (tbf i love milk but its weird to make it your racial identity). just grasping at straws poo poo you know what im gonna make my racial identity having a jaw that clicks when i chew. i can make signals with it, like morse or some poo poo, my super ancestors totally did it!! euplasics not welcome
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Feb 2, 2024 21:35
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Platystemon posted:There will be a sudden surge of your countrymen attributing them to ancient aliens. Took like ten seasons for that show to start saying Greek stuff was aliens
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Feb 2, 2024 21:53
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Phy posted:Took like ten seasons for that show to start saying Greek stuff was aliens ah so it checks out after all old norse royal houses claimed descent from odin, who was of course known as mercury by the romans, ie the greek hermes pre-norman royals in britain claimed descent from troy, also greece the greek jupiter means "sky god", and what does that mean in turn?
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Feb 2, 2024 22:10
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the holy poopacy posted:I love watching people melt down on social media over poo poo like this. "Well sure the original inhabitants might have been dark skinned when they migrated to northern Europe but by 4000 BC they had been living there for hundreds of generations so why would they still be black???" as if they magically absorbed whiteness from the soil The real reason for it is that they would stop being dark skinned if they stuck around for long enough and stopped relying on organ meat in their diet. Because all the non white kids would die. But the latitude where it becomes really detrimental to have dark skin in terms of vitamin D deficiency is somewhere in the middle of Scandinavia if I recall correctly. However, dark skinned people are still able to survive there if they move further south during the dark winter months. And considering that they were evidently highly mobile from the archeological remains found, it makes sense for them to have lived there too.
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Feb 2, 2024 22:17
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Zudgemud posted:The real reason for it is that they would stop being dark skinned if they stuck around for long enough and stopped relying on organ meat in their diet. Because all the non white kids would die. But the latitude where it becomes really detrimental to have dark skin in terms of vitamin D deficiency is somewhere in the middle of Scandinavia if I recall correctly. However, dark skinned people are still able to survive there if they move further south during the dark winter months. And considering that they were evidently highly mobile from the archeological remains found, it makes sense for them to have lived there too. There’s another aspect to it. Vitamin D is stored in body fat. Burning fat releases it. So if people put on weight in the summer and lose it in the winter, they are to some degree compensating for the deficit in vitamin D production in the dark part of the year.
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Feb 3, 2024 00:37
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heres another re  all ancient peoples that anybody has studied have had a diet with more than 75% plants. roots, tubers, grains, etc. one example: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0296420 imo the so-called paleo diet was on its face idiotic, but its funny that every time any remains are analized its once again:oh they didnt just eat 100% meat like majestic lions
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Feb 3, 2024 00:47
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Carthag Tuek posted:heres another re Well yeah. The ones who died obviously had a diet rich in veggies and fruits. The ones eating meat survived
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Feb 3, 2024 00:56
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Gaius Marius posted:Well yeah. The ones who died obviously had a diet rich in veggies and fruits. The ones eating meat survived counterpoint: i am still alive
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Feb 3, 2024 01:59
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But are you truly living?
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Feb 3, 2024 02:12
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Brawnfire posted:But are you truly living? i did last night apparently 
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Feb 3, 2024 14:05
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To be fair I think the initial paleo diet was just cutting out “processed” foods. It’s junk science but you will probably be less fat if you do it bc you’re cutting out a lot of easy high calorie snack junk. Unfortunately people are morons. The same principal worked for low carb. It deletes a lot of junk. But somehow it became 22yo goons getting senior meds because all their meals were fatty red meats fried in lard.
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Feb 3, 2024 14:37
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:To be fair I think the initial paleo diet was just cutting out “processed” foods. It’s junk science but you will probably be less fat if you do it bc you’re cutting out a lot of easy high calorie snack junk. Yeah, the original paleo concept had some awareness that stone age humans actually were eating a lot of grains and tubers, the argument was that modern varieties were so far removed from what they started out as in the wild that it was best to cut them out altogether on favor of other plant based foods (which again, is a pretty decent weight loss strategy in general, for other reasons.) But people fixated on the animal protein parts so it turned into "meat and eggs and dairy and just enough kale that you don't poo poo your intestines out."
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Feb 3, 2024 18:00
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There is a decent slice of population with FODMAP food issues that can push one heavily towards a very meat / fruit heavy diet. Basically all of complex carbs are out the fermentable oligosaccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides and polyols of the acronym. So what’s that mean practically, vegetable skins, bean skins, whole fiber hulls and husks, anything that yeasts and bacteria like to turn into a lot of gas. Basically at the things that are good for one are bad (poo poo your intestines out) if one doesn’t make the enzymes to break them down and bacteria and yeast do it instead.
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Feb 3, 2024 19:25
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