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ummel posted:It was a poo poo take and a bad post. There's no need to express the views that the poster did on this dead gay comedy forum. There is nothing wrong with comparing the occupation forces carrying out a genocide to the Nazis.
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Feb 2, 2024 16:59
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The comparison seems apt. It was wishing death on another posters family members that seemed to cross the line.
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Feb 2, 2024 17:26
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Marenghi posted:The comparison seems apt. Personally, if I had family members who were actively conducting a genocide, I wouldn't be mentioning it online in a thread talking about the ongoing genocide.
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Feb 2, 2024 17:36
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Fidelitious posted:Provincial level Canadian politician made some 'interesting' comments in a discussion hosted by B'nai Brith hahah this is the same thing Joan Peters argued in From Time Immemorial which was eviscerated by Norman Finkelstein almost forty years ago.
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Feb 2, 2024 17:39
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The Sean posted:If I'm reading this right: "semantics are more important, even though they're dumb" "I don't agree with it or like it, but that's how it works" is what I'm saying. When it comes to legal bullshit, being accurate is always the best way. It's like how way too many piece of poo poo murderers in America get away with it because prosecutors get ahead of themselves and charge way more than they can prove. Yeah, they totally loving did it and the worst way possible, but the prosecutors couldn't prove the criminal intent so they get off since they only charged for premeditated murder in a state where you actually have to prove that they took steps to plan their murder before commissioning it. That's why I said "I don't condone it, I'm just explaining it." I hope that clarifies.
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Feb 2, 2024 18:05
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Randalor posted:Personally, if I had family members who were actively conducting a genocide, I wouldn't be mentioning it online in a thread talking about the ongoing genocide. This is quite the leap from what the poster posted. Go touch grass. Speleothing posted:That poster was correct. The IOF are equivalent to the SS and if your family is a part of it, you should at the very minimum sever. Seriously, you cspam edgelords need loving therapy. No wonder no one takes you seriously outside of insular online communities. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) ummel fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 18:06
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ummel posted:It was a poo poo take and a bad post. There's no need to express the views that the poster did on this dead gay comedy forum. That poster was correct. The IOF are equivalent to the SS and if your family is a part of it, you should at the very minimum sever.
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Feb 2, 2024 18:06
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ummel posted:This is quite the leap from what the poster posted. Go touch grass. kiminewt posted:I'd rather the US just sanctioned them to hell so they'll be forced to stop and no one will get killed but I have family members in the IDF. 
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Feb 2, 2024 18:10
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ummel posted:This is quite the leap from what the poster posted. Go touch grass. One can avoid conscription in Israel OP I know several people who have. One has a moral obligation to even risk prison rather than participate in an ethnic cleansing campaign. I disagree with a lot of the cspam adjacent people all the time but this isn't one of their crazy things at all, it's barely hyperbole.
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Feb 2, 2024 18:22
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ummel posted:This is quite the leap from what the poster posted. Go touch grass. I've argued in this subforum quite extensively that it's bad and unproductive to sever ties with meemaw even if she voted for Trump or something, but I think it's quite a bit different when the family member in question is an actual boots-on-the-ground active participant in an ongoing genocide. I don't think there's anyone I'd keep in my life if they've engaged in the wholesale slaughter of innocents, much less on behalf of a nazilike ethnostate's ethnic cleansing project.
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Feb 2, 2024 18:29
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I believe there is a difference between being completely callous with so-called "collateral damage" and actively going after civilians. If anyone told me that they gleefully OR ruefully killed civilians I wouldn't want to be in contact with them, but someone simply being in the IDF, I don't think so. None of you had grandparents who served in Vietnam? Nothing will be accomplished by me not saying "hello" to a family member who trained troops at a yearly family dinner. Furthermore, I was in the IDF myself, so glass house and all. I, personally, don't think I did anything wrong by being conscripted to ride a desk when I was a teenager. I wouldn't do it again and I'm not proud of it but there we are.
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Feb 2, 2024 18:52
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ummel posted:This is quite the leap from what the poster posted. Go touch grass. Say what ya want about "your IDF family should die", but posts like this one are hosed up. Accuse somebody of being a member of some "other", some outgroup, and then call their mental health into question. Imagine people being upset about tens of thousands killed, and far more yet to die and who knows how many ruined lives. Perpetrated by our allies, with our assistance, and public acceptance (but behind the scenes they're very seriously not ok with it, I mean, we're the good guys!)
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Feb 2, 2024 18:58
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kiminewt posted:I believe there is a difference between being completely callous with so-called "collateral damage" and actively going after civilians the IDF intentionally targets civilians
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Feb 2, 2024 19:00
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punishedkissinger posted:the IDF intentionally targets civilians I don't deny that, though I probably diverge in scope from the concensus in the thread. I just meant to say that it is not necessarily every soldier that is a crazy baby killer, just like I don't believe every Hamas soldier is ready to put babies in the microwave or whatever it was at the drop of a hat. I did cut off Israeli friends who had horrid opinions from my life, but I still wouldn't wish death on them.
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Feb 2, 2024 19:11
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kiminewt posted:I believe there is a difference between being completely callous with so-called "collateral damage" and actively going after civilians. If anyone told me that they gleefully OR ruefully killed civilians I wouldn't want to be in contact with them, but someone simply being in the IDF, I don't think so. None of you had grandparents who served in Vietnam? Nothing will be accomplished by me not saying "hello" to a family member who trained troops at a yearly family dinner. The deskrider Nazis were still Nazis. The IDF absolutely is actively going after civilians and engaging in genocide. kiminewt posted:I don't deny that, though I probably diverge in scope from the concensus in the thread. I just meant to say that it is not necessarily every soldier that is a crazy baby killer, just like I don't believe every Hamas soldier is ready to put babies in the microwave or whatever it was at the drop of a hat. No. Long range weapons are used to distance the death of babies from the act. Did a house fall on top of a baby? Welp, that's war.
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Feb 2, 2024 19:21
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kiminewt posted:None of you had grandparents who served in Vietnam? My grandfather served in a war. Against Nazis. Does that count for anything?
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Feb 2, 2024 19:23
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Randalor posted:My grandfather served in a war. Against Nazis. Does that count for anything? Did they see combat?
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Feb 2, 2024 19:32
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I regret bringing my personal poo poo into this. I'm not going to excommunicate my brother and father and every single person I grew up with because they served in the IDF and I feel like most people wouldn't. If you would, perhaps you have a stronger moral fiber than I. Sorry for the poo poo derail.
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Feb 2, 2024 19:36
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small butter posted:I don't think that anyone has argued that "nothing" can be done to curb Israeli attacks and atrocities in the future. The argument is that given how terrible the attack on October 7 was, the Israeli response that you have seen to it could not have been stopped without a military intervention. No amount of tech sector pressure or whatever would have done anything, and certainly not keeping Israelis from traveling given that Israel drafted 1/5th of their population, anyway. "Oh no, these things we haven't remotely tried would never have helped but this extremely soft move will yield dividends" doesn't work, from my perspective. Maybe the US should try some of these moves and see what happens instead of getting Matthew Miller up on TV to choke out "Israel has the right to defend itself" or "we'll look into that" again like a gurning, masturbating monkey with no sense of shame? e: kiminewt posted:I'd rather the US just sanctioned them to hell so they'll be forced to stop and no one will get killed but hey I have family members in the IDF. Your family is actively involved in a genocide. If anyone else's family is in the IDF, they're also actively involved with a genocide. While I wouldn't have leapt to a Dirlewanger comparison, it'd be great if you can let your family know that they've at least one genocidaire in the gene pool. kiminewt posted:I regret bringing my personal poo poo into this. I'm not going to excommunicate my brother and father and every single person I grew up with because they served in the IDF and I feel like most people wouldn't. If you would, perhaps you have a stronger moral fiber than I. Sorry for the poo poo derail. Indeed. You won't ostracise a family member participating in genocide. You won't yell at family members supporting the genocidaires in your family. When they start talking about just following orders, you'll give them a warm hug because they'll always be family. Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 19:43
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Grip it and rip it posted:Did they see combat? From what I recall, he had.
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Feb 2, 2024 19:52
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If my grandpa fought in Vietnam he woulda been shooting at NATO forces
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Feb 2, 2024 21:16
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My dad was in vietnam and my grandpa fought for Hitler ama and what is my punishment
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Feb 2, 2024 21:19
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kiminewt posted:I don't deny that, though I probably diverge in scope from the concensus in the thread. I just meant to say that it is not necessarily every soldier that is a crazy baby killer, just like I don't believe every Hamas soldier is ready to put babies in the microwave or whatever it was at the drop of a hat. I don't know, I don't think everyone enlists to do murder, but I do think that if you enlist and then the military starts actively prosecuting a genocide you should probably not continue to aid them in that genocide. This is a bit of a moot point when we're talking about the IOF doing genocide over decades though.
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Feb 2, 2024 21:22
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Maybe this thread needs to be closed for a short while or returned to stricter scrutiny
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Feb 2, 2024 21:50
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Staluigi posted:Maybe this thread needs to be closed for a short while or returned to stricter scrutiny The thread should not be closed. It needs to be consistently moderated. The good faith educational discussion subforum should not have a universal heckler's veto.
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Feb 2, 2024 21:53
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I think we're done talking about how bad goons and/or their family members serving in the IDF are. It's pretty clearly not going to suddenly go somewhere productive.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:08
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Google Jeb Bush posted:I think we're done talking about how bad goons and/or their family members serving in the IDF are. It's pretty clearly not going to suddenly go somewhere productive. I think discussing what it's like to have family members in a genocidal military is pretty on point. If we extend the nazi metaphor, how would the thread act to someone saying their cousin is a concentration camp guard? The genocide is real and real people are doing it in the real world. This isn't some academic exercise.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:26
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No it's weird and gross, and the only thing it is producing is a lot of side eye from the lurkers here like myself. They specifically brought it up asking for heavy sanctions on Israel so that loss of life was halted on both sides and the reaction to that sentiment was completely disproportionate and jarring, attacking generic people rather than the governments commanding them. I wonder what some of the people here would have said to someone [e: that had family die on both sides of the American Civil War] Yawgmoft fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Feb 2, 2024 |
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Feb 2, 2024 23:40
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Jaxyon posted:I think discussing what it's like to have family members in a genocidal military is pretty on point. Telling someone they should wish their family was dead is not "discussing" anything.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:42
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Yawgmoft posted:I wonder what some of the people here would have said to someone [e: that had family die on both sides of the American Civil War] One of my grandpa's brothers went to fight for the Nazis in WWII (my grandpa and his other brother fought for the US, they were 2nd generation immigrants). Nazi brother died in from combat injuries in an allied POW camp. Neither of them would even mention his name, and to this day the only thing my grandpa (who is 97 and still kickin) will say about Nazi brother is: "I'm glad that Nazi traitor bastard died, wish I could have pulled the trigger." While I agree that there's not much point in attacking an individual for refusing to wish death upon their family, I don't think it's that outrageous to view "willingly associates with IDF soldiers" as a moral stain akin to "willingly associates with Nazis" or more generally "willingly associates with organizations that actively perpetrated a genocide". Maybe it's not the most important topic, but a decent number of the IDF genocide doers are citizens of the US/European countries to which they will presumably return at some point. A nontrivial number of people are going to have to reckon with the fact that their friend/brother/sister/etc is a genocide doer. Yawgmoft posted:the reaction to that sentiment was completely disproportionate and jarring, attacking generic people rather than the governments commanding them. To move the discussion in a more productive direction: Do you think that individual IDF soldiers doing the genocide bear no moral culpability for their actions? If so, do you believe the same thing with respect to Nazis (or Hutu militia members or members of Myanmar's military or Serbian police members who participated in their respective genocide campaigns)? You don't outright say it, but your response here seems to imply that you view a "just following orders" defense as sufficient to absolve a genocide do-er of moral culpability. If attacking "generic people" (I assume you mean "specific people"? Not super clear) doing a genocide isn't acceptable, and you do not believe that a "just following orders" defense absolves them of culpability, could you please explain why you believe that?
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Feb 3, 2024 00:31
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socialsecurity posted:Telling someone they should wish their family was dead is not "discussing" anything. Yeah whatever is going on in here is gross and should be treated harshly.
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Feb 3, 2024 00:42
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socialsecurity posted:Telling someone they should wish their family was dead is not "discussing" anything. One person did that, and that is indeed across the line.
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Feb 3, 2024 01:06
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socialsecurity posted:Telling someone they should wish their family was dead is not "discussing" anything. yeah this. dunno how my post was "cheerleading" tbh but w/e
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Feb 3, 2024 01:22
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I don't know when it's a line to draw, but I'm sure there's lots of interesting and maybe even productive (if provocative and hard to moderate) discussion about it. But it may go beyond the scope of the thread. People are people. Myself and everybody I know are guilty just being Americans, our everyday lives and culture and consumption requiring ravaging the world and obliterating people just to chug along, and sure enough we validate and support it just by playing ball. But redacted or self terminating doesn't solve this either. Humanity and empathy are something we cannot lose our grip on, even (and especially) when voting and talking has failed, even when it may be time to destroy and kill. We have to meet people where they are before we write them off, because writing somebody off may soon mean something far more drastic than some impotent severing. Edit: no I am not summoning nightcrawler.
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Feb 3, 2024 01:45
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What's important is that all the moderation steps we need to keep things in step have already been taken, by probating one person that mentioned a subforum.
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Feb 3, 2024 01:49
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Grip it and rip it posted:What's important is that all the moderation steps we need to keep things in step have already been taken, by probating one person that mentioned a subforum. Actually a few people got probated, and that's just so far. I mean, a lot of people are dead and more are dying or will die. Considering that, I'd eat a probe just to say your post sucks! Nobody's even leveled my house or killed everybody I know and love yet.
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Feb 3, 2024 01:56
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It's just incredibly jarring to see an earnest "clean Wehrmacht" argument in this, of all contexts
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Feb 3, 2024 02:08
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:It's just incredibly jarring to see an earnest "clean Wehrmacht" argument in this, of all contexts Where did that happen?
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Feb 3, 2024 02:14
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BRJurgis posted:We have to meet people where they are before we write them off, because writing somebody off may soon mean something far more drastic than some impotent severing. I wonder if my grandad, who was in a concentration camp (while his wife was a forced labourer), would feel this way about the nazis who brutalised them. I'm gonna say. Lmao loving no. e: Which isn't to say that's how I feel about IDF, just commenting on the "let's not be too harsh on nazis" bit. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Feb 3, 2024 |
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Feb 3, 2024 04:19
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Grip it and rip it posted:Where did that happen? The part where someone riding a desk doesn't have culpability in a genocide/apartheid (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 3, 2024 04:55
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