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Cat Hatter posted:I always thought this was interesting in a "how do we talk to aliens" sort of way, but it's also useless in any practical sense. There's no way that a warning sign in a dozen languages isn't going to be understandable to someone. Even in some distant Mad Max dystopian future they'll probably still have legends of the bombs that killed everyone and destroyed everything and have at least one historian or scientist that can read something or recognize a radiation symbol. What dye were they planning on using that will outlast every written language on Earth for the dyed concrete? I think the idea is you "just bury it" somewhere that makes Phoenix look like Eden. It's difficult to imagine a series of events that could lead to people settling Death Valley, for example.
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Feb 2, 2024 21:22
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Cat Hatter posted:What dye were they planning on using that will outlast every written language on Earth for the dyed concrete? Carbon black
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Feb 2, 2024 21:24
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Blue Footed Booby posted:I think the idea is you "just bury it" somewhere that makes Phoenix look like Eden. It's difficult to imagine a series of events that could lead to people settling Death Valley, for example. People did settle Death Valley though. https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/mining-in-death-valley.htm
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Feb 2, 2024 21:28
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Dump nuclear waste in deepest depths of oceans, people will not go there and... BAH GAWD THAT'S GODZILLA'S MUSIC 
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Feb 2, 2024 21:40
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Just chuck it into a volcano, what's the worst that could happen? 
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Feb 2, 2024 21:49
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Haifisch posted:Just chuck it into a volcano, what's the worst that could happen? Right idea, just need to get on the other end of the process. Continental plate subduction zone is what you're looking for.
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Feb 2, 2024 22:03
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Platystemon posted:People did settle Death Valley though. The Timbisha have been there for over a thousand years
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Feb 2, 2024 22:37
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Eletriarnation posted:Right idea, just need to get on the other end of the process. Continental plate subduction zone is what you're looking for. That was the proposal myself & my geologist bud from university were workshopping in the early 1980s. Two concerns were the overall depth waste would have to be inserted, but even more were containers that could stand up to the geologic time period required until folded under the plate.
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Feb 2, 2024 23:33
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Blue Footed Booby posted:I think the idea is you "just bury it" somewhere that makes Phoenix look like Eden. It's difficult to imagine a series of events that could lead to people settling Death Valley, for example. In some ways Death Valley is probably more hospitable than Florida was 200 years ago. If someone discovers a valuable resource or decides to divert a river there for some asinine reason people are going to wonder what maniac didn't at least put up a sign.
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Feb 3, 2024 06:42
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The "just bury it deep" idea works just fine if you do it somewhere uninteresting enough. Finland did finally manage to build one, and they drilled it into a thick sheet of granite. There's not really any minerals of interest down there, and it's far too dense to have aquifers. The geology has been stable for something like 1700 million years, too.
Computer viking fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Feb 3, 2024 |
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Feb 3, 2024 17:27
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Any postapocalpse civilization is going to deal with so much toxic waste that they will not be incautious.
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Feb 3, 2024 17:36
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Computer viking posted:The "just bury it deep" idea works just fine if you do it somewhere uninteresting enough. Finland did finally manage to build one, and they drilled it into a thick sheet of granite; there's not really any minerals of interest down there, and it's far too dense to have aquifers. I'm pretty sure Finland put up a sign though, because not recording where hazardous materials are is a problem now and will continue to be a problem up until some unlikely hypothetical future where all scientific knowledge is erased across the entire world.
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Feb 3, 2024 17:45
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Cat Hatter posted:I'm pretty sure Finland put up a sign though, because not recording where hazardous materials are is a problem now and will continue to be a problem up until some unlikely hypothetical future where all scientific knowledge is erased across the entire world. Yeah, that seems reasonable. I think they are backfilling the tunnels, so the question is what sort of window there can be where the markings are still going to attract interest but people have forgotten the danger. I suspect none?
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Feb 3, 2024 17:50
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Azza Bamboo posted:Put all of the nuclear waste somewhere conspicuous in an unnatural formation. This way the future cavemen can associate its weird shape with the painful balding death plague and develop a helpful myth to not go to the oddly shaped place lest you also cough blood and die. I think Chernobyl and the sarcophagus are already this. The problem is there’s nothing that visually looks like inherent danger without the prior knowledge of it. So 10,000 years from now it just looks like an abandoned village of us ancient losers and people go exploring. Excavating the whole space to be just a pile of radiating fissile material that kills everyone around might get the effect you want, but everything in range is contaminated so where do you put that, and how do you mark it?
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Feb 3, 2024 17:56
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Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that it'd be a massive PR disaster, you could just pulverize the radioactive waste and evenly distribute it across the country. It's no worse than what we do with coal plants.
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Feb 3, 2024 18:01
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Ok ok idea: we combine forces and dump all our lead and mercury and other heavy metal waste there too. That's a permanent marker and will visibly blight the land so they know it's poisonous.
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Feb 3, 2024 18:03
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mr.belowaverage posted:I think Chernobyl and the sarcophagus are already this. The problem is there’s nothing that visually looks like inherent danger without the prior knowledge of it. So 10,000 years from now it just looks like an abandoned village of us ancient losers and people go exploring. On the other hand, 10 000 years from now all the really spicy isotopes will have burned out, and what's left is a lump of much lower grade radioactive junk. I still wouldn't make my casual-wear raiding armor out of it, but nothing stays death-ray deadly for that long.
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Feb 3, 2024 18:03
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shoot it into orbit and come up with a better plan in the mean time or else
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Feb 3, 2024 18:05
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Computer viking posted:On the other hand, 10 000 years from now all the really spicy isotopes will have burned out, and what's left is a lump of much lower grade radioactive junk. I still wouldn't make my casual-wear raiding armor out of it, but nothing stays death-ray deadly for that long. Sure if we skip to the end of the decay curve it’s just no longer a problem
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Feb 3, 2024 18:07
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moist turtleneck posted:shoot it into orbit and come up with a better plan in the mean time or else lol the opposite of Ripley’s plan? Apologies for the double post but lmao
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Feb 3, 2024 18:07
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mr.belowaverage posted:I think Chernobyl and the sarcophagus are already this. The problem is there’s nothing that visually looks like inherent danger without the prior knowledge of it. So 10,000 years from now it just looks like an abandoned village of us ancient losers and people go exploring. To be honest, I don't think it's going to be any more of a concern than people excavating stuff in general is. Mining with modern methods is dangerous work but mining with ancient methods is brutally lethal and was a death sentence to the slaves that were put into it. There's so much toxic poo poo in the crust of our planet, a few places where you can get radiation sickness don't change it all that much.
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Feb 3, 2024 18:11
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Can't Superman just put it all in a big net and throw it into the sun?
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Feb 3, 2024 18:31
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mr.belowaverage posted:Sure if we skip to the end of the decay curve it’s just no longer a problem That's kind of the point, though; it takes long enough for any big geological changes that by the time those matter, there's nothing too horrible left. The only risk I kind of agree with is a global (or local) regression of knowledge that happens soon enough for people to go digging into our still visible leftovers without knowing how they are dangerous.
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Feb 3, 2024 18:37
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mr.belowaverage posted:The problem is there’s nothing that visually looks like inherent danger without the prior knowledge of it. Human remains. Skeletons. Dig a hole a mile deep, put the waste in casks at the bottom of the hole, then dump your dead into the hole for the remainder of time. Any civilization willing to dig through a mile of corpses to get to the spicy boxes will either take the warranted caution with what they find or they'll loving deserve what happens next. All you need to do is ensure that the corpse hole stays topped up with corpses for as long as it possibly can, but after a certain point I think it'll just be the default answer for "well what do we do with his corpse?" and so kind of a self-solving problem.
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Feb 3, 2024 18:38
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I volunteer for the corpse hole
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Feb 3, 2024 18:40
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:Human remains. Skeletons. Dig a hole a mile deep, put the waste in casks at the bottom of the hole, then dump your dead into the hole for the remainder of time. Any civilization willing to dig through a mile of corpses to get to the spicy boxes will either take the warranted caution with what they find or they'll loving deserve what happens next. Archeologists would be thrilled to excavate such a site!
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Feb 3, 2024 18:44
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Nenonen posted:Archeologists would be thrilled to excavate such a site! poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:they'll loving deserve what happens next Grave robbers
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Feb 3, 2024 18:53
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archaeologists would still try to dig it up but maybe just the line the hole with medieval style toilets and cover the waste that way??
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Feb 3, 2024 18:54
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Bad Munki posted:I volunteer for the corpse hole Hey fellas, "the corpse hole"! Well ooh lah dee dah Mr French man
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Feb 3, 2024 19:06
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Bad Munki posted:Grave robbers  
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Feb 3, 2024 19:12
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:Human remains. Skeletons. Dig a hole a mile deep, put the waste in casks at the bottom of the hole, then dump your dead into the hole for the remainder of time. Any civilization willing to dig through a mile of corpses to get to the spicy boxes will either take the warranted caution with what they find or they'll loving deserve what happens next. This is how you get zombies FYI.
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Feb 3, 2024 19:16
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At the very least a Skelton Army
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Feb 3, 2024 19:19
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This is a really difficult problem because basically anything you do that communicates 'Holy poo poo this is dangerous, don't touch it' is probably going to be met with 'Sounds like you're trying to scare me away from the real treasure!' and then some people will deliberately dig it up anyway.
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Feb 3, 2024 19:21
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And if you can somehow convincingly communicate that what is down there will kill you, people will think "So I can use it to kill my enemies".
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Feb 3, 2024 19:38
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Soon you'll have roving clans of raiders, carrying gigantic radiation warning signs around, as a deterrent to other raider clans.
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Feb 3, 2024 19:54
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VelociBacon posted:This is how you get zombies FYI. DR FRASIER KRANG posted:At the very least a Skelton Army Neither of these falls under the "undesirable outcomes" heading in my book. They do, however, fall under the "getting what they loving deserve" heading. Wins all around.
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Feb 3, 2024 20:07
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poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:Human remains. Skeletons. Dig a hole a mile deep, put the waste in casks at the bottom of the hole, then dump your dead into the hole for the remainder of time. Any civilization willing to dig through a mile of corpses to get to the spicy boxes will either take the warranted caution with what they find or they'll loving deserve what happens next. Yep, no one has ever found a massive site full of human remains and thought “nah this isn’t worth exploring”. Now I’m just going to take a big swig of coffee as I search Wikipedia for Parisian Catacombs and…
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Feb 3, 2024 20:24
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Ashcans posted:This is a really difficult problem because basically anything you do that communicates 'Holy poo poo this is dangerous, don't touch it' is probably going to be met with 'Sounds like you're trying to scare me away from the real treasure!' and then some people will deliberately dig it up anyway. eh, not a lot of people breaking into superfund sites
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Feb 3, 2024 20:30
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moist turtleneck posted:archaeologists would still try to dig it up but maybe just the line the hole with medieval style toilets and cover the waste that way?? Archaeologists just love mediaeval toilets.
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Feb 3, 2024 20:36
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moist turtleneck posted:archaeologists would still try to dig it up but maybe just the line the hole with medieval style toilets and cover the waste that way?? My ex-wife's archaeological dissertation involved digging up the privy of one of the nation's first almshouses. An archaeology grad student would look at a mile-deep toilet and say, "gently caress YEAH I BET THEY ACCIDENTALLY DROPPED A LOT OF THINGS IN THERE I COULD DIG UP AND STUDY"
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