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tagesschau posted:Haifa and Ashdod together see twenty times as much tonnage flow through them as does Eilat. Assuming those three ports are the only three in Israel, which they aren't, an 85% drop in traffic at Eilat means a whopping 4% reduction in Israeli port traffic. Meanwhile, 90% of Sudan's international trade flows through Port Sudan. You're telling me the two ports in the Mediterranean are unaffected by a blockade of the Red Sea  Really though at least they're trying to stop a genocide. When the western world has thrown their weight behind supporting it.
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Feb 4, 2024 11:24
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tagesschau posted:Haifa and Ashdod together see twenty times as much tonnage flow through them as does Eilat. Assuming those three ports are the only three in Israel, which they aren't, an 85% drop in traffic at Eilat means a whopping 4% reduction in Israeli port traffic. Meanwhile, 90% of Sudan's international trade flows through Port Sudan. Even a 4% drop in Israeli port traffic is absolutely massive by the way
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Feb 4, 2024 12:51
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Esran posted:Yemen is currently attacking shipping with the stated goal of fighting Israel, and are being bombed by the US and their lapdogs for it. The Houthis are currently attacking ships within range of their weapons without regard to their affiliation or destination. Their stated goal does not let you handwave away what they are actually doing. (And "lapdogs"? Seriously? The Soviet Union's been gone for three and a half decades.) Not that the rest of your post is particularly reflective of reality, either. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 4, 2024 14:02
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tagesschau posted:The Houthis are currently attacking ships within range of their weapons without regard to their affiliation or destination. Their stated goal does not let you handwave away what they are actually doing. (And "lapdogs"? Seriously? The Soviet Union's been gone for three and a half decades.) What they are actually doing is taking actions that harm a genocidal state and its collaborators. "Without regard to affiliation or destination" is complete nonsense, to the point that it suggests ignorance or bias on the speaker's part. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 4, 2024 14:05
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tagesschau posted:The Houthis are currently attacking ships within range of their weapons without regard to their affiliation or destination. Their stated goal does not let you handwave away what they are actually doing. (And "lapdogs"? Seriously? The Soviet Union's been gone for three and a half decades.) Can you please provide a source that they are regularly attacking non Israeli affiliated ships. Some people keep making this claim but nobody offers proof.
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Feb 4, 2024 14:15
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MadSparkle posted:Egypt military dictatorship sold out to western interests some time ago, their citizens are a different story though Do you have any sources that can support that your claim of the under 50 crowd being very much pro-Houthi? TBH, I find this very hard to believe. I haven’t found polling breakdown by age, but it seems like an overwhelming majority do have a negative view of them: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/egypt-polling-shows-rise-positive-views-hamas-iran-backed-groups-and-muslim quote:Iran’s proxies, namely Hezbollah, remained deeply unpopular among Egyptians. Remarkably, the current poll shows that 79% of Egyptians voiced negative views about Hezbollah in Lebanon, while almost three-quarters agreed that "Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and their other militia allies are actually unwilling or unable to help the Palestinians, no matter what they claim." The results are in line with the data released in a recent poll last October when 80% of Egyptians voiced a very negative view of Hezbollah, while an equal amount voiced a negative view of the Houthis in the Winter 2021 poll. It is unclear how the Houthis’ recent attacks on Red Sea shipping routes—which they attribute to the war in Gaza—has impacted Egyptian public opinion on this issue, although Houthi attacks had begun during the poll fielding period when this question about Iranian proxies was posed. Of course, it’s possible that I’m unaware if Egypt has a very old population or the under 50 crowd has changed their opinion since winter 2021 but still think the Houthis are unwilling/unable to help Palestinians. But, those seem unlikely enough to need some strong supporting sources for me to believe your claim Kalit fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Feb 4, 2024 14:54
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Kalit posted:
I always love looking up who funds think tanks because the one you cited here was founded by AIPAC. Just interesting that their findings would be totally in line with their funding and function.
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Feb 4, 2024 15:09
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hadji murad posted:I always love looking up who funds think tanks because the one you cited here was founded by AIPAC. Do you have any other sources that shows a different conclusion on Egyptian views on Houthis? If so, please list it. Especially since your complaint about this source is who funds them, when the outcome of the poll seems like something Israel would want to suppress (an increasing favorable view of Hamas in Egypt) Otherwise, I’m certainly not going to believe a claim by a goon with zero evidence when it seems unlikely. Kalit fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Feb 4, 2024 15:17
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https://x.com/haaretzcom/status/1754145626076438856?s=20 The Israeli paper Haaratz had uncovered the 72 virgins telegram channel, which shared racist anti-palestinian posts and gore from the conflict, was ran by the members of the IDF.
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Feb 4, 2024 16:24
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The ship-by-ship assessment was like 2-3 days ago at most in this thread guys
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Feb 4, 2024 17:04
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tagesschau posted:The Houthis are currently attacking ships within range of their weapons without regard to their affiliation or destination. Their stated goal does not let you handwave away what they are actually doing. (And "lapdogs"? Seriously? The Soviet Union's been gone for three and a half decades.) What I wrote is literally and indisputably true, and you're not even disagreeing with it, you just don't like the phrasing I used. The Houthis are attacking shipping, and they have stated they are doing so to fight Israel and stop the genocide of the Palestinians. The US is bombing the Houthis due to their attacks on shipping. That you think the Houthis are lying about their reasons doesn't make any of what I wrote untrue. And yes, seriously "lapdogs". Maybe you want to elaborate on why you think the Soviet Union has anything to do with this? tagesschau posted:Not that the rest of your post is particularly reflective of reality, either. The rest of my post was obviously sarcasm. I don't actually believe AA has aircraft carriers. Your take appears to be that it weakens AnsarAllah's claim to be blockading Israel when they don't blockade two ports on the opposite side of the Suez Canal from Yemen. When someone points out that they have no way to actually do that, your response is that the group currently being bombed by the US wouldn't dare blockade those ports, because they're afraid of "drawing direct response" from Israel. You are free to think that AA are just doing random piracy, but this take is ridiculous. Esran fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Feb 4, 2024 17:50
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Dandywalken posted:The ship-by-ship assessment was like 2-3 days ago at most in this thread guys Quite it then? I don't see any ship-by-ship analysis in the thread up to 5 days ago?
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Feb 4, 2024 18:14
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Youre right, was the general Mid East thread. my mistake
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Feb 4, 2024 18:24
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Quite it then? I don't see any ship-by-ship analysis in the thread up to 5 days ago? I think it was in the ME thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3839774&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=626#post537511594. I don't think it went over every single ship, it seems to have been a discussion only of ships that were not directly owned by Israelis. It appears to have stranded at the same question this thread has disagreed on: Are AA deliberately targeting ships that have nothing to do with Israel and lying about their stated reasons for attacking shipping, or are they trying to attack Israel-affiliated ships and sometimes misidentifying them. I would not pull out that discussion as evidence of anything, other than people interpreting the same facts in different ways depending on their predisposition toward AA. I would like the people who think AA are doing random piracy to explain how they know better than the insurance providers who are increasing premiums or refusing coverage outright on Israel-affiliated ships (edit: Alternate source) though. Esran fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Feb 4, 2024 18:43
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Dandywalken posted:The ship-by-ship assessment was like 2-3 days ago at most in this thread guys Current moderation policy is false claims must be rebutted separately every time and place they are raised.
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Feb 4, 2024 18:58
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I assume your certainty that these claims are false and your exasperation at having to repeatedly disprove them must mean that the rebuttal was uncontroversial and unambiguously shows the claims to be false in a way no reasonable person or insurance provider could disagree with. You should link the rebuttal. It must be a different one than the one I linked above. Edit: So this isn't all Houthi-chat: The government of Israel providing a reminder that they're not scared of a UN court, and that the fascist settler state requires more lebensraum https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/04/at-war-within-and-without-israel-has-almost-reached-a-point-of-no-return posted:Polarisation within Israeli society plumbed new depths last weekend. At a Jerusalem rally, thousands of rightwingers, including Ben-Gvir, finance minister Bezalel Smotrich, government MPs, rabbis and soldiers, called for Jewish resettlement of Gaza and expulsion of Palestinian residents. Esran fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Feb 4, 2024 19:19
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Where exactly do missile strikes factor into Yemen not actually caring (even for purposes of domestic support) about Gaza & just wanting to commit piracy? Is the idea that they'd sink the boat, then go diving for its cargo?
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Feb 5, 2024 00:10
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I think it's more that Houthis want to stretch western resources, and it's working. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/onboard-a-us-aircraft-carrier-a-cat-and-mouse-game-with-houthi-forces-plays-out/ HouseofSuren fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 00:33
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hadji murad posted:I always love looking up who funds think tanks because the one you cited here was founded by AIPAC. Yup, this is exactly why I am not bothering getting into an argument with them, it's a pointless argument, people are going to believe what they want and find their little online disingenuous statistics regardless of people who actually live there, know people who do, the immediate sentiments expressed through news, etc. Nobody actually gives a poo poo about what Egyptians really think or feel in a lot of these contexts, except to drag it in and try to frame it in to fit a viewpoint
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Feb 5, 2024 01:49
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MadSparkle posted:Yup, this is exactly why I am not bothering getting into an argument with them, it's a pointless argument, people are going to believe what they want and find their little online disingenuous statistics regardless of people who actually live there, know people who do, the immediate sentiments expressed through news, etc. This sounds a lot like you believe your anecdotes beat actual numbers as long as it reinforces what you already believe.
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Feb 5, 2024 02:05
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I wouldn't call. "An initative of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy" to have numbers that are real or tangible to anything but their ideology, which sounds neocon or zionist backing
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Feb 5, 2024 02:08
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HouseofSuren posted:I wouldn't call. Sure sources can be absolute poo poo and that one seems to be, but the person sounded like they could dismiss just about any source long as they disagreed personally.
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Feb 5, 2024 02:15
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HouseofSuren posted:I wouldn't call. If they truly wanted to have numbers that only supported their ideology, they wouldn’t have provided numbers that came to the conclusion of Hamas support increasing among Egyptians
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Feb 5, 2024 02:30
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That's not true at all. The article itself is an overton window shift in the conversation, creating an imaginary discussion about Iran alongside Hamas. They are nothing alike. Israeli classic, whataboutism.
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Feb 5, 2024 02:33
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HouseofSuren posted:That's not true at all. Huh? I meant the polling results and that’s all I’m talking about, not the narrative of the article. If you think the polling numbers regarding Egyptian views are incorrect because they don’t fit the “Israeli narrative” (or whatever terms you want to use), why did one of the questions produce results that looks bad for Israel (support for Hamas)?
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Feb 5, 2024 02:48
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You're purposely being obtuse. The article is talking about Egyptian views being paired with advantage and disadvantages toward israel. The article brings in Hamas and Iran to give the narrative that things are being discussed legitimately, and Israel is doing a certain way in the region. They are not, this article is thoroughly written to help a certain people here feel a specific way. This conversation is gish gallop.
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Feb 5, 2024 02:54
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Marenghi posted:Can you please provide a source that they are regularly attacking non Israeli affiliated ships. Some people keep making this claim but nobody offers proof. This is from December: Houthis target tenth ship in Red Sea as attacks turn increasingly indiscriminate This list was posted last month. Esran posted:What I wrote is literally and indisputably true, and you're not even disagreeing with it, you just don't like the phrasing I used. The Houthis are attacking shipping, and they have stated they are doing so to fight Israel and stop the genocide of the Palestinians. The US is bombing the Houthis due to their attacks on shipping. What's also indisputably true is that the pattern of the Houthis' attacks shows that not only do those attacks fail to achieve the result they claim to want, no reasonable person (including the Houthis themselves) can possibly believe those attacks, as currently carried out, will achieve the stated goal. That they press on in the face of this knowledge gives us some idea of how truthful their statements are. Esran posted:And yes, seriously "lapdogs". Maybe you want to elaborate on why you think the Soviet Union has anything to do with this? It was one of the insults the Soviets loved to hurl at the West when they couldn't actually think of anything meaningful to say. tagesschau fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 03:05
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HouseofSuren posted:You're purposely being obtuse. Why can’t you address the polling numbers themselves? That’s literally the only thing I’m talking about!
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Feb 5, 2024 03:08
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No offense, but do you have the math or source information on how they conducted the survey? Are you wanting me to take these as facts? Because I won't do that from the source. It's designed for an intent, all of it, to frame the perspective for you or whoever is satisfied with such topics to share with others as being factual. HouseofSuren fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 03:11
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HouseofSuren posted:No offense, but do you have the math or source information on how they conducted the survey? From the methodology section of the article: quote:Methodological Note Either they made a big typo or they were interviewing Saudis to get the opinions of Egyptians? Unless I'm misunderstanding something? Either way that's a huge oversight.
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Feb 5, 2024 03:38
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tagesschau posted:This is from December: Houthis target tenth ship in Red Sea as attacks turn increasingly indiscriminate This is a really weird post. I never saw or heard the word tankie before I had come to Something Awful, which is full of western agents like Vile Rat and Brown Moses, Sean Smith/Elliot Higgins, and I grew up at Plant 42 research and development facility, ATDC locations. It's not a common term at all, no matter what anyone here may say otherwise. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) HouseofSuren fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 05:22
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HouseofSuren posted:The article itself is an overton window shift in the conversation HouseofSuren posted:Israeli classic, whataboutism. HouseofSuren posted:This is a really weird post. I never saw or heard the word tankie before I had come to Something Awful, which is full of western agents like Vile Rat HouseofSuren posted:You're purposely being obtuse. HouseofSuren posted:This conversation is gish gallop. i'd have an easier time with a spontaneous contrarianism safari act showing up and swiftly getting to work at unwinding a whole page of discussion if it least had the decency to not come from a 1 day old obvious rereg. welp looks like team me is taking off againnnnnnnnnₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙₙ (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 5, 2024 06:58
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socialsecurity posted:This sounds a lot like you believe your anecdotes beat actual numbers as long as it reinforces what you already believe. I don't "believe" anything, but the actual voices coming from the area, if you want cold numbers, then believe those, it's your call. You really think all those people go out and make their voices known? Old products have been resurrected in Egypt, to boycott western ones. That probably won't last, because Egyptians love the poo poo out of Pepsi. But for now? The local brand is where it's at. For how long , who knows. The people are fickle. Egypt's military state controls a lot of the numbers put out, so you're not getting anything but what they to say lol What do you think, they'll call their congressman? Do you really think the opinions of people living in a military dictatorship is going to be even remotely accurate by some outside numbers? This thread wants cold statistics without the warmth of actual bodies or people living there giving those statistics, or any immersion or actual interest/research into the actual culture. It's not all realistic. . It's a screwed up country, the poorest see the Houthis as being saviors, the upper middle class on up see them as opportunistic for the most part The poorest will always lose and know it and love seeing the underdogs win It's not that hard, it applies in the west as well , it doesn't need to be "logical" , you don't need numbers, look at the place, research it, it's common sense . I realize that's outdated these days where you require it, but I don't have it. Egypt is a loving mess, I'm not sure people understand that their grudge rolls back to the late 60s, with the 6-day war, when the economy there basically collapsed and people began relocating. That's when religion begin to reign... totally different conversation, but still related. As an aside, some of the best Szechuan cuisine I've had is in Cairo MadSparkle fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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On the whole boat thing, its fine to scrutinize the sincerity of the Houthis based on what boats they hit, but it’s a pretty good check on your own internal biases if you’re not applying the same rationale to other military operations with very high CDEs which is objectively worse than damaging boats. I think it’s entirely possible that the Houthis are fully sincere, and they also just don’t really care that much when their intel is off the mark. That doesn’t seem particularly crazy to me. Also as someone else pointed out, what is the piracy part of this supposed to be? Aren’t you supposed to get money from piracy? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 5, 2024 09:54
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tagesschau posted:This is from December: Houthis target tenth ship in Red Sea as attacks turn increasingly indiscriminate quote:A Panama-flagged bulk carrier attacked earlier this month also had no links to Israel, while a boxship attacked the same day was only linked through a charter to Zim that ended in 2021. quote:This list was posted last month. quote:-HMS Diamond - UK Navy I think that's a fair shake at the list. So far every ship I checked in order came up as Israeli link, coalition Navy ships sent to protect Israel, or having been presumed Israeli linked due to flawed evidence. Interesting both the Israeli owned ships were called British by Israel due to their company incorporation in the Isle of Man. But that is clearly for tax purposes, the latter Ungar shows up in the Panama Papers leak along with his shipping company. It's obvious Israel is trying to deflect links to ships by claiming them as owned by the tax haven their company is incorporated in, with the actual beneficial owners being Israeli. quote:What's also indisputably true is that the pattern of the Houthis' attacks shows that not only do those attacks fail to achieve the result they claim to want, no reasonable person (including the Houthis themselves) can possibly believe those attacks, as currently carried out, will achieve the stated goal. That they press on in the face of this knowledge gives us some idea of how truthful their statements are. Not sure how indisputable that is. Shipping is down to Israel's red sea port. It is bringing attention to the genocide by the news covering the ship attacks. I also find it hard to understand how some think this is a cover for piracy. With their attacks forcing ships to divert away from the red sea, they are reducing the targets available for piracy. As a money making venture their strategy makes no sense. As a way to support Palestine and uphold their international responsibility to prevent a genocide, it makes perfect sense. Marenghi fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 11:36
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https://x.com/naksbilal/status/1754436549737840838?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q bleak lol that Israel doesn't even seem to be bothering with the effort of fabricating evidence to smear UNRWA.
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Feb 5, 2024 12:10
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tagesschau posted:What's also indisputably true is that the pattern of the Houthis' attacks shows that not only do those attacks fail to achieve the result they claim to want, no reasonable person (including the Houthis themselves) can possibly believe those attacks, as currently carried out, will achieve the stated goal. By your own calculation the Houthi attacks have cost Israel 4% of its port traffic, which obviously amounts to tremendous economic pain for the Israeli economy. So even by your own admission the Houthis are achieving their goal.
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Feb 5, 2024 12:36
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not a value-add posted:Also as someone else pointed out, what is the piracy part of this supposed to be? Aren’t you supposed to get money from piracy? you're attempting to get money from piracy, but nothing stops a campaign of opportunistic piracy from turning up dismal returns either now or before appended anti-genocide intents were a part of the campaign
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Feb 5, 2024 12:46
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Darth Walrus posted:https://x.com/naksbilal/status/1754436549737840838?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q Why would they? America and their allies already used it as a smokescreen to punish the UNRWA and western media already made it common knowledge the UNRWA is full of evil HAMAS terrorists for swaths of the public. The leak did its job
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