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It's because they are balancing two political costs, and want to pay neither. If they deployed large forces upfront, that creates ripples in public opinion. It's the same reason Afghanistan, Iraq and the Russian operations in Ukraine all started with far fewer forces than their own people were telling them they needed. Having a small footprint keeps casualties out of the headlines, costs less, and doesn't require a large, high readiness peacetime military. On the other hand, maintaining stockpiles for an extended war is also expensive, requires state control of industry either directly or indirectly, and will always appear "inefficient" under peacetime conditions. Making the case for mountains of munitions that may never be fired in anger is hard for states used to the paradigms of neoliberal governance. So, the reason the surge happens later, which happened twice in Vietnam iirc, is that at some point the political cost of losing freaks politicians out, so they frantically try to correct course - but not too much - which ultimately means they only do enough to not lose right now.
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Feb 4, 2024 19:28
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RIP Syndrome posted:Contemporary strategy is based on a misconception of the zerg rush; it only works right at the very onset of hostilities. For instance, the Americans waited almost ten years before deploying their troop zerg in Afghanistan. By then, it was too late. A zerg rush is when you send the weakest, fastest troops as quickly as possible, in just barely enough numbers to surprise and cripple your enemy. Or, alternately, a zerg rush is when a subhuman insectoid asiatic orc country engages in a ground invasion.
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Feb 4, 2024 20:45
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Votskomit posted:Or, alternately, a zerg rush is when a subhuman insectoid asiatic orc country engages in a ground invasion. Its this. Most people just know that a lot of bugs are involved and don't care that it's actually an 8 minute all-in.
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Feb 4, 2024 21:15
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8 minute lolwhat? 6pool ftw yo
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Feb 4, 2024 21:18
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Exactly, even I don't know and I've even (poorly) played the game. E: Broke: zerg rush Woke: crawler rush nomad2020 has issued a correction as of 23:40 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Feb 4, 2024 21:39
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Orange Devil posted:8 minute lolwhat? 6pool ftw yo 6pool into roach rush
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Feb 4, 2024 21:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9gxsCmr24k
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Feb 4, 2024 22:30
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not a single burger king delivery truck. how does china think they'll actually compete??
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Feb 4, 2024 22:31
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bad scouting. the russians spent the last year macroing and have several expansions now
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Feb 4, 2024 22:44
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the zerg rushes will continue until they stop achieving victory
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Feb 4, 2024 22:49
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Since its always projection every time...
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Feb 4, 2024 22:56
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Frosted Flake posted:It's because they are balancing two political costs, and want to pay neither. I think there is a general rationale there, but at least from the perspective of the US Iraq/Afghanistan/Vietnam looked winnable at the start and instead dragged on for years. I would say Russia's chances up front were slim to none at the start and Putin's advisors were out of their minds (or possibly co-opted, Pirgozhin was only the tip of the iceberg?). The fact that even posters on a dead comedy forum were scratching their heads in disbelief says something. In my mind, it wasn't impossible they were going to attack, but it not all possible ideas are good ones. It really should be restated the Russians put themselves in the worst position possible. 1. Mud and just a miserable climate in general 2. far far too few troops on too many fronts 3. went very light against the Ukrainian AF and AD 4. Ignored/refused to nullify the main body of the Ukrainian force in the Donbass 5. Made themselves initially the "aggressor" in terms of world opinion 6. Acted before proper improvements had made to their armor, they were literally pushing T-72B mod 1989s on to the battlefield 7. The worst of all was just ignoring the improvements made by Ukraine and they were fighting a relative peer fight 8. Refused to get conscripts involved to the point they were using lightly armed Rosgardia to fill in gaps (etc etc) They really did gently caress up to a disturbing extent, and if anything, I would say that the training and command of junior officers kept them mostly together. The Russians only made this worse by signaling weakness in negotiations and fully pulling back positions around not only Kiev but the entire north. The Russians got better over time and the more they adapted, the better they got, but really, the first 2-3 months of the war were a complete trash fire, and even then it was touch and go to the fall 2022. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 00:38 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 4, 2024 22:56
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All good points that also serve to highlight how unimportant sick owns on the battlefield are compared to raw industrial capacity
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Feb 4, 2024 23:07
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Slavvy posted:All good points that also serve to highlight how unimportant sick owns on the battlefield are compared to raw industrial capacity It shows you can save a disaster by actually utilizing the potential power of a state, and in the end, firepower matters. It just should be remarked that the Russians did very clearly put themselves in a ridiculous position and it was a state-centric approach that brought them out of it.
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Feb 5, 2024 00:40
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russian history is full of wars where they kind of suck at the start, and then gradually realise that they have tons of resources and people and start to utilize them. but i mean, that kind of thing can happen, since "armies are always preparing to fight the last war" and all that. hell, even the british had a reputation for losing every battle but the last.
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Feb 5, 2024 00:54
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I don't think people remember that in the last big war not only did Russia fight Germany simultaneously during Operation Barbarossa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa They also single handedly defeated the Japanese attempt to invade Eurasia through Mongolia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol This is all in 1939.
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Feb 5, 2024 01:00
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khalkhin gol and barbarossa were not simultaneous. the former was instrumental in convincing the japanese not to open a second front against the soviets lol
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Feb 5, 2024 01:10
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Yeah it was right before, that's my fault. They also got the Kiril Islands out of it which is why the US wanted to nuke Japan immediately and not invade, they feared Russia would take the country before them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuril_Islands Russia was already counter invading Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_the_Kuril_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Japanese_War HouseofSuren has issued a correction as of 01:34 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 01:14
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The Soviet should have tested their nuclear bomb sooner and invaded Japan sooner, they could have gotten half of main islands and turn it into a people's republic. Just think we could have gotten Bolshevik anime in an alternate timeline.
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Feb 5, 2024 01:39
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I think there's a huge difference between the Soviet Union and Russian Federation here, insofar as I don't think the Soviets would spend so much time loving around trying not to mobilize or spook NATO. There are rumours, I'd rate this pretty low in terms of veracity or probability, that the Brits are lobbying to send NATO into Western Ukraine - a bit like Pristina Airport - to block Lwow and Odessa and create backstop for a Ukrainian rump state.
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Feb 5, 2024 01:47
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HouseofSuren posted:Yeah it was right before, that's my fault. I think you're repeating some post-war propaganda. The decision to drop the nuclear bomb had been made almost from the outset of the program; it was treated like just another bomb in the arsenal. It wasn't until Truman heard the reports from Hiroshima & Nagasaki that he placed nukes under presidential control. And the Soviet invasion of Japan was already agreed upon at Yalta or one of the other conferences; they promised to invade Japan no later than 90 days after the German surrender, which ended up being in early August. There were idle proposals by the allies to even lend the Soviets amphibious assets so they could participate in the clusterfuck that the invasion of Japan would be; after all what's the point in having the Soviets help out if they don't get to share some of the fun? Naturally the whole thing ended up being moot, since the one thing that the Japanese had been counting on for the last few months of the war was that the Soviets would broker a peace treaty between them and the allies.
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Feb 5, 2024 01:57
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A lot of this attrition fight looks like Russia kettling Ukraine in kill zones. Which is the primary form of Russia battle.
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Feb 5, 2024 01:59
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stephenthinkpad posted:The Soviet should have tested their nuclear bomb sooner and invaded Japan sooner, they could have gotten half of main islands and turn it into a people's republic. Just think we could have gotten Bolshevik anime in an alternate timeline. ring of red was a pretty dope game for ps2 though you as the protagonist had you allied with nazis lol
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Feb 5, 2024 02:24
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The Soviets were only able to invade the Kurils, and carry out their other amphibious operations in August Storm, because of what iirc was the largest transfer of ships in history, Project Hula.
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Feb 5, 2024 02:31
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That's something the US has over everyone, logistics. China has displayed the US can't fight large human wave battles, with its defeat of the entire American military and UN auxillary which includes large amounts of Turkish soldiers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chosin_Reservoir My point is, you can have all the logistics you want and still lose the confrontation. HouseofSuren has issued a correction as of 02:41 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 02:36
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had
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Feb 5, 2024 02:54
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2024 not 2004. Heck even back then famously there wasn't enough armour or protected transport. Now the big new thing is light tanks that weigh like mediums and skeletal buggies. Edit oh and billion dollar b21 raiders. DancingShade has issued a correction as of 03:29 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 03:23
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Kurils (and southern Sakhalin) were much later, after the end of the war in Europe. Kurils in particular, as well as some of the action in Korea, were dress rehearsals for Hokkaido and then Tohoku; in particular, IIRC, men and materiel available on Hokkaido were about even with the two Kurils garrisons plus the portion of the Kwantung Army attempting to hold Seishin, which were also attempted near-simultaneously. (And yes, Project Hula was instrumental in supplying the actual sealift capacity, and especially the actual sealift capacity in the northern Pacific only three months after the war in Europe had ended; it's fun to poke at pop history enjoyers that it was also enough to go further, but without it their understanding of capabilities would have been accurate.) Khalkhin Gol is a real interesting one because it just helps illustrate what a stunning display of incompetence, infighting, and refusal to cut losses Imperial decisionmaking ended up at. The status quo as the booming '20s wore off was that the outright fascist-petty bourgeois-lower nobility-army MIC bloc, which favored militarily securing Siberia for lots of coal and steel and moderate amounts of oil and other metals in order to build capacity for an eventual general land war with the Soviet Union, and the right-liberal-deep state-haute bourgeois-high nobility-navy MIC bloc, which favored either diplomatically or militarily (as they themselves had a younger, downwardly-mobile out-group sub-bloc) securing Southeast Asia for lots of oil and farmed resources and moderate amounts of coal and steel in order to build capacity for contesting the Pacific with the United States, were the main opponents in politics. The former was initially dominant, especially using their natural power base in occupied Korea to false-flag up an excuse to also occupy Manchuria in 1931. However, their more radical elements let their enthusiasm get the better of them, and rode full-throated to the support of a successful assassination but failed coup by naval junior officers (the May 15 incident, 1932) and getting caught up in the subsequent purge, then attempting their own (failed both the key assassination and the actual coup) in the February 26 incident in 1936. At this point, especially the deep state elements of the latter bloc really moved to the forefront--Tojo himself, with sympathies to the radical line but a deep conviction that elan was not enough and industrial policy was necessary to achieve its goals, was commander of the Kwantung Army gendarmerie at that point, and was pulled into both high command and a presence in political circles through his assertion of control during the coup attempt and leadership in the subsequent purge. However, they faced a significant problem: the radicals enjoyed significant public support. So the purge ended up being an official adoption of many of the slogans and vibes points--in particular, Araki, the chief radical political theorist, was force-retired from the general staff but later made education minister--and most radicals who weren't directly involved in the coup were not executed but instead shipped to Manchuria where they were less likely to inconveniently stab a prince or prime minister. There, their general "accept any provocation, and create one if there isn't" approach managed to derail the metropolitan intended tack for China of gradually creeping more and more "colonial guidance" in in favor of full war (which also gave the US and UK governments reason to significantly cool relations given their own colonial ambitions in China.) And it also led to sustained border squabbles with the Soviet Union coming to a head around the village of Nomonhan, where the Japanese forces suffered a decisive defeat that convinced the metropole it would have to look south instead, and aggressively, since entente with the British as a regional enforcer of open trade was now off the table too. I think the key comparison with now is how much of US military (and sometimes border, see Abbott) actions run on escalationary autopilot away from federal civilian control, combined with how much the federal civilian control that does exist looks at situations and goes "the hawks are literally frothing at the mouth for war and only war, the doves can be won back on other issues, let's go with the hawks" Mandoric has issued a correction as of 03:53 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 03:47
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Lookee here boys. We caught ourselves an Australian and now we're keeping it as a pet. Ship's mascot. https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/02/australian-sailors-embed-aboard-submarine-tender-for-nuclear-experience/ Australian Sailors Embed Aboard Submarine Tender For Nuclear Experience The Sailors and Officers will embed aboard USS Emory S. Land, one of two U.S submarine tenders based in the Pacific territory, for up to five months.
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Feb 5, 2024 03:50
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yellowcar posted:ring of red was a pretty dope game for ps2 Can I play as commie? I am going to try it on my RG405.
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Feb 5, 2024 03:50
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Danann posted:https://twitter.com/IndoPac_Info/status/1753969631688323295 Home by Christmas boys!
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Feb 5, 2024 03:59
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stephenthinkpad posted:Can I play as commie? nope it's a fixed narrative trpg, it's alt-history post-wwii where mechs were invented instead of nukes. japan still lost but was divided into north (controlled by the soviets) and south (controlled by the americans) the main protagonist is a half german half japanese mech pilot for south japan whose commanding officer is a former SS officer and is squadmates with an american and an ex-IJA vet lol
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Feb 5, 2024 04:01
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Frosted Flake posted:There are rumours, I'd rate this pretty low in terms of veracity or probability, that the Brits are lobbying to send NATO into Western Ukraine - a bit like Pristina Airport - to block Lwow and Odessa and create backstop for a Ukrainian rump state. europe losing an army would be an extremely funny development
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Feb 5, 2024 05:30
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Mandel Brotset posted:europe losing an army would be an extremely funny development pretty good odds the nato plan is that the nato battlegroup just drives in and scatter the russian orcs at first sight of their wunderwaffe this is completely different from the time that ukraine tried to drive in and scatter the russian orcs at first sight of their wunderwaffe
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Feb 5, 2024 05:35
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Raider is a lovely name, it's trying too hard.
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Feb 5, 2024 05:37
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Frosted Flake posted:There are rumours, I'd rate this pretty low in terms of veracity or probability, that the Brits are lobbying to send NATO into Western Ukraine - a bit like Pristina Airport - to block Lwow and Odessa and create backstop for a Ukrainian rump state. if by nato you mean poland, and by backstop for a ukrainian rump state you mean 'annexing what is now east poland' i rate it pretty plausible
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Feb 5, 2024 05:38
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what if we just shared Poland? like Russia takes half and…we… take the other half
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Feb 5, 2024 05:40
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Danann posted:pretty good odds the nato plan is that the nato battlegroup just drives in and scatter the russian orcs at first sight of their wunderwaffe they still think that they would just shoot missiles from f35s at everything russia has
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Feb 5, 2024 05:42
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FirstnameLastname posted:they still think that they would just shoot missiles from f35s at everything russia has hey if this is what the thread title takes im here for it
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Feb 5, 2024 06:08
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"Betting the empire on F35s"
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Feb 5, 2024 06:20
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