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socialsecurity posted:It's not a requirement per se but it makes voting easier which is the other half of getting people's voices heard. Getting off work to vote is incredibly hard for poorer people.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:03
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I'd rather see people get the day off than online voting. This is the most important thing our government does, its accessibility is important but so is having a secure method that voters trust. Our current system is very secure. Moving it to the Internet would make it a lot less secure - not even the vote submission portal getting hacked, but we'd inevitably have people getting tricked into voting on a fake website instead, or losing control over their computer or their credentials so someone else can vote as them. Someone's vote doesn't go through because they lost WiFi and they say it's because they chose a certain candidate. Nobody would trust the results anymore. Voting and vote-counting needs to happen using exclusively trustworthy machines, unfortunately that doesn't include personal computers as convenient and good for turnout as it would be.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:11
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People hack and bot the competitions for votes on what a trashbin should be named, no way am i trusting that with something important.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:18
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I'd rather see people get the day off than online voting. There is no mechanism in American society for "people get the day off". The people who are most unlikely to be able to vote due to work are the same people who don't get weekends or national holidays off.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:21
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Tuxedo Gin posted:There is no mechanism in American society for "people get the day off". The people who are most unlikely to be able to vote due to work are the same people who don't get weekends or national holidays off. Fair enough. Let's say, have a system to make sure everyone gets at least one workday off during the final week in which polls are open. Also keep popularizing vote by mail, make enrollment in vote-by-mail part of the process of registering for high school/college or getting any ID. It extends the convenience of the process almost as far as online voting, while using a system that people comprehend easily and generally trust, and which warrants that trust.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:28
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Mail in voting doesn’t get everyone necessarily voting on the same day, but it means that everyone could have the results at the same time. And that has most of the same effects as same-day voting unless I’m missing something.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:31
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Tuxedo Gin posted:There is no mechanism in American society for "people get the day off". The people who are most unlikely to be able to vote due to work are the same people who don't get weekends or national holidays off. Yeah if somehow all the gas stations/food places were closed America would descend into chaos within hours.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:33
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Tuxedo Gin posted:There is no mechanism in American society for "people get the day off". The people who are most unlikely to be able to vote due to work are the same people who don't get weekends or national holidays off. It would be a pretty wild time if we treated voting day the same way we treat Christmas, or any other federal holiday... Would it be feasible to offer a tax break, even a year later, to folks who show up on voter rolls as successfully having participated.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:34
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Fair enough. Let's say, have a system to make sure everyone gets at least one workday off during the final week in which polls are open. I used to support universal vote by mail until I canvased. Several times I knocked on a door asking questions on who the people in the household are voting for and being told by the husband that they are a proud republican house and they would NEVER vote for a democrat while the wife has a look of terror on her face. That wife needs a private ballot so she can express her opinion without fear of intimidation from her husband. One should be able to request a mail in ballot for any reason but it absolutely should never be mandatory. Make in-person early voting like two months long.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:38
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Civilized Fishbot posted:This is true, but I don't think your conclusion is correct. The electoral college isn't fair, in the sense that every voting-eligible American has an equal amount of decision power. Some voters are much, much more likely to cast a deciding vote than others. So it makes obvious tactical sense that the primary process should prioritize picking a candidate that they like, who energizes them. The electoral college doesn't really have much to do with primary elections; the ordering of primary elections, and such, is about messaging as it is about guiding the primary process to try to get some optimal result that satisfies the needs of different interest groups. An ordering that goes "We don't care about you or your state or your issues" is one that I think further hinders the hard work democrats in those states do to try to win local elections and get people interested in doing the hard work of running for office and build a bench. Its more then just about picking some theoretically optimal candidate, its also about trying to inject energy and participation within the state; and to encourage turnout and engagement from voters. Every effort matters, and probably previous primaries in Georgia probably helped push the state into a purple state over the years.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:38
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Fluffs McCloud posted:It would be a pretty wild time if we treated voting day the same way we treat Christmas, or any other federal holiday... People who work low wage jobs still work on Christmas eve and Christmas day and every other federal holiday. They will work election day too. Always better to expand the time one has to vote.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:40
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Tuxedo Gin posted:There is no mechanism in American society for "people get the day off". The people who are most unlikely to be able to vote due to work are the same people who don't get weekends or national holidays off. Sure there's no mechanism right now but that doesn't mean we couldn't make one. If every count of forcing someone to work on election day was punishable by five years in prison and a $500,000 fine i'll bet you'd see it happen a lot less.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:41
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DeeplyConcerned posted:Sure there's no mechanism right now but that doesn't mean we couldn't make one. If every count of forcing someone to work on election day was punishable by five years in prison and a $500,000 fine i'll bet you'd see it happen a lot less. So are all the poll workers and media companies exempt or is election day coverage about to get a whole lot more awkward?
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Feb 5, 2024 04:43
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Our society was incapable of forcing employers to give workers time off when the alternative was forcing them to work under the risk of imment choking death. So many workers died it created an employee shortage that is still causing wage increases years later. Might as well ask we mandate universal health care.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:44
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Fluffs McCloud posted:It would be a pretty wild time if we treated voting day the same way we treat Christmas, or any other federal holiday... "Federal holiday" means "federal government employees get the day off", in a legal sense. Private companies have no such requirement. Many of them follow suit voluntarily but far from all. DeeplyConcerned posted:Sure there's no mechanism right now but that doesn't mean we couldn't make one. If every count of forcing someone to work on election day was punishable by five years in prison and a $500,000 fine i'll bet you'd see it happen a lot less. Any such law would have to contain myriad exemptions for all of the work which can't just be ignored for a day, and it would probably also need to be a state law.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:46
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C. Everett Koop posted:So are all the poll workers and media companies exempt or is election day coverage about to get a whole lot more awkward? God forbid any traffic accidents/fires happen or anyone needs to go to the hospital.
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Feb 5, 2024 04:47
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DeeplyConcerned posted:Sure there's no mechanism right now but that doesn't mean we couldn't make one. If every count of forcing someone to work on election day was punishable by five years in prison and a $500,000 fine i'll bet you'd see it happen a lot less. Would this mean that everything, including emergency rooms, closes completely for 24 hours? Why is that even necessary? Why not just make election more flexible so that you don't need to go vote on a specific day?
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Feb 5, 2024 04:48
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Xiahou Dun posted:Mail in voting doesn’t get everyone necessarily voting on the same day, but it means that everyone could have the results at the same time. And that has most of the same effects as same-day voting unless I’m missing something. The thing you’re missing is when Republican state legislatures forbid mail in ballots from being opened or counted until after polls close in order to make those votes come in later and cast a shadow of doubt over their validity.
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Feb 5, 2024 05:05
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Just making voting a 2 week long event (including weekends) instead of a dumbass one day affair. Most people can manage to get a day off in a 2 week period.
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Feb 5, 2024 05:15
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There would be no harm and much benefit in making election day a holiday and working to normalize it actually being treated as such, in addition to any early voting setups; as others have noted holidays aren't obligatory. Early voting in various forms (mail or otherwise) is good for access, but does raise potential issues when events occur that may change electoral opinions during the period.
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Feb 5, 2024 05:20
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socialsecurity posted:Maybe one day we can get a legit secure online voting system and just do em all the same day or have a random generated sequence. That would require both funding and laws passed so instead we will watch most of the voting power go towards empty acreage, honestly probably as at least some of the founding father wanted. Having all the primaries on the same day isn't necessarily desirable. It gives a massive advantage to the candidates who start the primary cycle with the most fame and money, since campaigning across the entire country all at once is incredibly resource-intensive. While fame and money are still important no matter how you do things, starting off with a few smaller states massively lowers the barrier to entry in order to be seen as a serious contender. Somebody who doesn't have the money or staff to campaign nationally might still be able to do well in a few states by focusing their limited resources on those states. Moreover, it gives a chance for people and donors to see which candidates are overperforming or underperforming expectations. Overperformers can raise their profile and attract more donors and staffers, while underperformers will lose support and eventually drop out, freeing up their donors and staffers to work for the candidates who've demonstrated themselves to be stronger. That's probably better for the state of the race overall, and the states that go later aren't really going to shed any tears that they never got the chance to vote against Bloomberg.
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Feb 5, 2024 07:20
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Charliegrs posted:Just making voting a 2 week long event (including weekends) instead of a dumbass one day affair. Most people can manage to get a day off in a 2 week period. nah make it longer. like its tax season right now, make it as long as that. also give state board of elections enough money to way way way more people, but also allow them to have 24 hour early inperson voting sites
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Feb 5, 2024 07:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Our society was incapable of forcing employers to give workers time off when the alternative was forcing them to work under the risk of imment choking death. So many workers died it created an employee shortage that is still causing wage increases years later. Now hold your horses, this isn't even in the top three reasons I've seen for labor force shifts. It seems to be more along the lines of bottom-tier exploited service workers being broadly somewhat more able to job search, develop skills, get remote jobs, that sort of thing. Not a labor shortage caused by mass death. dumber capital is also desperate to find any explanation that isn't "if people have a bit more time and financial support they can get better, more fulfilling jobs", so while I can't imagine they'd be excited about the mass murder hypothesis, it's at least a side effect of preventing the real threat Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 07:31
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i have a better idea: what if voting was just one day, regardless of weather or other conditions, and we kept most efforts to expand accessibility for more affluent areas and economic classes? i'm also thinking maybe we should let state legislators and governors be able to work together to decide where you can close a whole bunch of the places you can vote. to save money! this definitely should be on a regular workday too, during people's work hours, and um, you gotta have specific types of identification on you, and .. i'm pretty sure the rest of my flash cards were ruled unconstitutional but i'd still like to try them. what if there was a voting eligibility test, or even a tax?
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Feb 5, 2024 07:48
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like, if the magnitude of worker shortage in lovely industries is because of youngish healthyish people all being mowed down by covid... that's a lot of deaths. A LOT of deaths. A whole lot more than is supported by excess death counts. especially when other lines of work suddenly found themselves with somewhat more employees, and a large majority of covid deaths were in the elderly
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Feb 5, 2024 07:50
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Google Jeb Bush posted:dumber capital is also desperate to find any explanation that isn't "if people have a bit more time and financial support they can get better, more fulfilling jobs", so while I can't imagine they'd be excited about the mass murder hypothesis, it's at least a side effect of preventing the real threat Dumber capital broke trust. If one worked on the low end, say retail, there was a clear come to work and risk your life for, nothing. Implied threats to gently caress employees that quit over to get the unemployment denied. Forcing folks on enhanced unemployment they laid off back by reporting them for denying their old job. The message was my business is more important than your life. This is in a larger context of gently caress you, you are on your own that parents and really anybody with difficulties or disabilities or that was V on the margins that needed social support felt during the pandemic. “Because loneliness was never the core problem. It was, rather, the sense among so many different people that they’d been left to navigate the crisis on their own. How do you balance all the competing demands of health, money, sanity? Where do you get tests, masks, medicine? How do you go to work — or even work from home — when your kids can’t go to school? The answer was always the same: Figure it out. Stimulus checks and small-business loans helped. But while other countries built trust and solidarity, America — both during and after 2020 — left millions to fend for themselves.” https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/31/opinion/covid-2020-recovery-society.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare The real threat is that folks were failed by society. The expanded unemployment made it clear they didn’t have to be. It made the prepandemic failures of the status quo no longer forgivable.
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Feb 5, 2024 07:56
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oh yeah im not saying the social implications weren't seismic, I'm just saying covid deaths aren't the driving force behind labor shortages and never particularly were
Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 08:02
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Google Jeb Bush posted:oh yeah im not saying the social implications weren't seismic, I'm just saying covid deaths aren't the driving force behind labor shortages and never particularly were It’s broken down by age. And below 65 it’s like 300000 ish for the official count. It be interesting to know what percentage of the 65 to 75 demo were still working. But yeah I also think it was the other social changes. Even being aggressive and starting to count unofficial excess deaths, and being squishy with the 65-74 being potentially workers it be hard to get above 500,000. Seeing that working age people died is probably a bigger effect than the working age death itself.
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Feb 5, 2024 08:14
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Low-wage work fundamentally sucks to begin with. Not only is the pay poor, but the working conditions are often terrible. People generally work them because they don't have a better choice. So we don't really need a fancy explanation for why people don't want to work low-wage jobs - we need to explain why they're able to avoid working low-wage jobs. For the most part, the workers aren't missing. They didn't die off or stop working. While the low-wage labor shortage is still hotly debated, the general cause seems to be that the social and economic changes caused by COVID opened up new opportunities for low-wage workers, giving many of them chances to move up to better-paying jobs. In particular, two factors come up a lot. First, many older workers saw the disruptions of the pandemic as a reason to retire, accelerating the impact of the aging workforce and creating many vacancies in higher-level jobs those senior employees were vacating. Second, expanded federal benefits gave workers the resources to pursue better options and even risk losing their current job to pursue those options, and those who were furloughed during the lockdowns had plenty of time as well. All this allowed a significant chunk of low-wage workers to find better jobs, leaving a smaller labor pool for low-wage employers.
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Feb 5, 2024 08:49
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Google Jeb Bush posted:oh yeah im not saying the social implications weren't seismic, I'm just saying covid deaths aren't the driving force behind labor shortages and never particularly were Deaths weren't uniformly distributed. Certain industries, like restaurant kitchens especially, were hit very disproportionately by high death and illness rates. Deaths also don't have to have been the only factor to have nevertheless had significant impact in specific industries.
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Feb 5, 2024 12:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Our society was incapable of forcing employers to give workers time off when the alternative was forcing them to work under the risk of imment choking death. So many workers died it created an employee shortage that is still causing wage increases years later. COVID deaths didn't cause a worker shortage. About 1.2 million people died. Of those, about 100k were working age. There are a couple hundred million workers in this country, losing 100k caused nothing.
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Feb 5, 2024 13:07
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I think their point is a lot of people with service jobs finally reached their breaking points and bailed.
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Feb 5, 2024 13:52
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Star Man posted:I think their point is a lot of people with service jobs finally reached their breaking points and bailed. That's a better argument than I was actually making! I'll take it!
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Feb 5, 2024 13:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's a better argument than I was actually making! I'll take it! Funny enough I got into the least worst retail job of my life as a clerk with the US Postal Service right at the onset of the pandemic. I had made more money than I had ever known and paid off everything I owed in less than a year.
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Feb 5, 2024 13:58
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Star Man posted:I think their point is a lot of people with service jobs finally reached their breaking points and bailed. Nah, they actually said "so many people died". They may have been exaggerating, but they said it. I'm sure there are many reasons related to to COVID that people didn't come back to work, no need toake them up.
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Feb 5, 2024 14:02
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Prime age working population labor force participation is at near historical levels, while overall labor force participation rates remain lower than pre pandemic levels. There's no need to speculate on where the workers are: they're old and retired. Edit: Here's a graph! https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/202...mpaign=fredblog Morrow fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 14:20
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completely anecdotal, but as one of those low wage kitchen working "heros" (jesus, that messaging got dropped fast to only include "real" jobs), i know of three people who died in or directly adjacent (sysco delivery) to my line of work. to say me and my coworkers felt like sacrificial lambs so the wfhs could have their loving sandwiches would be accurate
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Feb 5, 2024 15:24
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World Famous W posted:completely anecdotal, but as one of those low wage kitchen working "heros" (jesus, that messaging got dropped fast to only include "real" jobs), i know of three people who died in or directly adjacent (sysco delivery) to my line of work. to say me and my coworkers felt like sacrificial lambs so the wfhs could have their loving sandwiches would be accurate Similar situation and my area had already been devastated by the opioid epidemic before this.
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Feb 5, 2024 15:27
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Xiahou Dun posted:Do you just roll up or what? Every state is different. In Indiana for the Democrats you have to be on the primary ballot as an elector for the convention. So you have to sign up before the deadline. If there isn’t enough interest the party sends their hand picked electors. If there is enough interest you are on the primary ballot to see if you can go. It’s also worth while to try to be a precinct chair for your county and township. They influence how the county functions and have a voice as well in what you want to see from the state and federal
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Feb 5, 2024 15:51
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I always figured a decent chunk were people working multiple jobs who realized during COVID they could cut back a little and only work one job. I had a few friends who did that. Also helped that they started getting paid better in the first job though.
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