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Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010

Megamissen posted:

every field of glory 2 battle ive played has been me trying to keep my troops in a nice line but instead it devolves into two seperate messy brawls

one of the best things about Field of Glory 2 is how much of it is about managing chaos and trying to hold your unwieldy mess of an army together, and how even battles you end up winning decisively almost always feel like they were one bad decision or bad die-roll away from being a complete rout in the other direction

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Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Field of Glory != Paths of Glory

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
yeah, field of glory is fun

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
I gotta give mad props to the original Pike and Shot for being the first game I've ever seen depict that era, and doing it in very engaging and fun way, to boot.

mystic pimp
Jul 25, 2014

Formerly-rampant human-coded AI with a sense of humor seeks bipedal oxygen-breathing cyborg for serious relationship in the galactic core. I've got cool guns if you like to break stuff. No yuppies.
fuckin absolutely I regretted not playing field of glory 2 sooner because even the very first tutorial battle often descends into a chaotic clusterfuck where the roman cav is constantly getting pushed off the map and returning every few turns to have a panic attack. poo poo was so goddamn fun

can also recommend order of battle, it's probably my favorite modern pg clone for the aforementioned reasons even if it doesn't have the amazing cutscenes from strategic mind where beria sounds like a text to speech robot version of how you imagined and you get to hear stalin bitch about the wily finns

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy


I'm so dang excited to have discovered that this is a thing that exists now

when I was doing my LP back in 2017, I had the binder and the charts laid out on a table next to my laptop so I could refer to them by hand while I did the writing and the screenshot-editing on the computer. I didn't even have a secondary monitor at the time - everything was done on a 16-inch 720p screen

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
FF phone-posting level of insanity gradenko.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
I do enjoy that there are literal "how do I open PDF" comments for the product

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

The number one best seller warms my heart

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Frosted Flake posted:

The number one best seller warms my heart





what the gently caress it's just playing CMANO* by hand

* yes I know CMANO is a descendant of Harpoon the computer game, which itself is derived from Harpoon the boardgame, which this apparently is, on its 5th edition already

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Grogs...

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

gradenko_2000 posted:



what the gently caress it's just playing CMANO* by hand

* yes I know CMANO is a descendant of Harpoon the computer game, which itself is derived from Harpoon the boardgame, which this apparently is, on its 5th edition already

😈

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

Mister Bates posted:

Command: Modern Operations is 50% off along with all its DLC and Tacview, and I am still blown away at how one-sided the scenario design is

if you take CMANO into account it's been a solid loving decade of development and there's still basically jack poo poo for scenario options if you don't want to play as the United States

I am pretty sure I have made almost this exact post in this thread before, but it never stops being frustrating how limited the singleplayer wargaming experience is, most post-WW2 games that do not have a fully dynamic campaign limit you to one side and in the overwhelming majority of scenarios that side is the US.

I am still kind of annoyed about Combat Mission: Shock Force literally having no red side campaign at all, when they were always more than happy to let you play as the Nazis in all their previous WW2-era titles

Pure ideology, *sniff*

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Really want to try that icebreaker DLC but I don't think I'll be able to expense it for my PE through work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-_pmS8rTEA

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

Really want to try that icebreaker DLC but I don't think I'll be able to expense it for my PE through work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-_pmS8rTEA

Yeah I guess Canada isn't going to need icebreakers soon anyway

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010
I kind of want to try editing some CMO scenarios so they can be played from the Red side, but I am pretty sure just from glancing at a few of the bigger ones that it will be a pretty tall order most of the time

for all its realistic aesthetics and claims of simulationist accuracy, it can only be as realistic as its scenario design. too often the 'bad guy' side seems to be designed to lose, built not to be an opposing force but specifically to be the bad guy, and too often the historical scenarios are designed with specific narratives of history in mind, intended not to simulate events but instead to produce the historical outcome, even in situations where it could have easily gone differently

I get that it is ideological, most professional wargame grogs are fascists and they want the Clancy technothriller fantasy of beating up the natives with modern weaponry, but shouldn't you want to simulate the other guy sometimes, if only to try to understand how they think and operate, in order to better counter them?

let's just pick one at random - the scenario calls for you to lead a mixed European naval task force conducting a freedom of navigation exercise into Venezuelan territorial waters.

play the scenario and you now have some kind of idea how that might go, if the enemy reacts in exactly the way your training material says they will react and does exactly the things you expect them to do - but what if they don't? what if they don't read the same training material you do and don't stick to their assigned role in the script? what happens then? shouldn't you want to simulate that too?

Mister Bates has issued a correction as of 17:35 on Feb 5, 2024

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

See this is why substituting the USN out for a second string NATO navy like Italy or France at least makes things interesting.

Great observations.

I thought people would do more with their quick mission feature, because it looks like it has potential, but I started playing around with the carrier operations off Vietnam one to set it in Korea instead and it was days of work. Even researching which Australian and British squadrons were present, where and when they were off the coast of Korea, what a mission looked like, what opposition air and ground was typical, was so much loving research lol.

Feel good scenarios of BLUFOR getting an easy W if the player can learn the UI and quirks of the scenario, is probably much easier for devs and satisfying for their Clancy Hat target demo.

e: I should say that researching the Soviet and other Eastern Bloc navies was immensely satisfying, but the existing scenarios don’t do a great job with their composition and doctrine. The tutorials basically get you to understand naval and air operations as NATO does, and so using smaller missile-based forces supported by ground based air makes you feel as if Warsaw Pact navies were just “worse” NATO navies, a problem we’ve talked about before.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 17:33 on Feb 5, 2024

Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Megamissen posted:

every field of glory 2 battle ive played has been me trying to keep my troops in a nice line but instead it devolves into two seperate messy brawls

for me it devolves into like a 3+ small brawls in larger battles which is annoying. Realistically in ancient battles armies normally kept some semblance of a cohesive formation until one side routes

best thing I like about the game is how heavy units are modelled: they are very unwieldly and can easily be screwed if caught out of position or in wrong terrain type. It's not like total war where they are unstoppable monsters.

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

Frosted Flake posted:


Feel good scenarios of BLUFOR getting an easy W if the player can learn the UI and quirks of the scenario, is probably much easier for devs and satisfying for their Clancy Hat target demo.


Problem seems to be that both wargames for the Clancy Hat set, and the professional set are set up to be easy Ws for BLUFOR both for entirely ideological reasons. Hell the Clancy Hat guys are only interested in What if scenarios if its the Nazis actually crush it in Barbarossa.

And while we've talked about for game reasons why wargames aren't set up to reproduce Soviet doctrine, I can't help but think that ideology plays a bigger decision in that than simply just game design going if we make it too much about logistics, the Wheraboos will cry on reddit. It has to be that NATO doctrine is the only correct doctrine and this all ties back into the end of history. Everything is meant to reinforce that there was never an alternative. I keep returning to this scene in The Good Shepard, where its the 60s and some Soviet general defects to the West and the CIA just keeps torturing him to find out if hes actually a mole and he says the Red army isn't a threat its all rusted out hulks under fresh coats of paint. Everything is to be rewriten and ignored in order to justify that history ended

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Another example would be Every Single Soldier's creep from Vietnam, to Afghanistan, to Angola.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDRstZUsT5A

BLUFOR lost each one of these conflicts, but that apparently hasn't caused any reflection on the underlying theory of the mechanics in the game, or I suppose in COIN doctrine.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


yeah but Galula wrote a book!

and also Colombia or something

see COIN works

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Tekopo posted:

yeah but Galula wrote a book!

and also Colombia or something

see COIN works

Andean Abyss is really funny to me since it turns out (shock, surprise) that Uribe actually did know his brother was running death squads

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Volko Ruhnke's Maidan, a new COIN game focusing on the four-way tug-of-war between NATO and the EU, the Ukrainian government, the Donbass separatists, and Russia

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

gradenko_2000 posted:

Volko Ruhnke's Maidan, a new COIN game focusing on the four-way tug-of-war between NATO and the EU, the Ukrainian government, the Donbass separatists, and Russia

You're not far off

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
lmfao come on man

anyway,



quote:

The Hunt for Gaddafi is On

In March of 2011, Libyans in opposition to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi and his government took up arms. For eight months, the opposition, fighting under an interim governing body, the National Transitional Council (NTC), fought Colonel Gaddafi’s Loyalist forces all across the country. In October, during a fierce battle in the coastal city of Sirte, Gaddafi was captured and killed.

Days of Villainy is an expansion that can be played with ANY core/base games of the Lock 'n Load Tactical series. Days of Villainy depicts four of the fierce battles that occurred during the Libyan Civil War, including Colonel Gaddafi’s final epic confrontation. Both sides are loaded for bear, armed with RPG-7s and FN MAG and PKM machine guns. The Loyalists have the armored support of BTR-60s and T-55s, but the NTC rebels have plenty of well-armed Technicals to drive into battle, as well as KPV heavy machine guns and the aid of seasoned fighters from the Katiba Tiger and Al-Saiqa commando brigades.

Scenarios include:

Hold or Die: An armored column of Loyalist forces attempted to retake the vital oil hub of Marsa al-Brega, on the road to Benghazi. A tough fight was ahead of them, and the sun was setting.

On the Road to Sirte: A convoy of NTC rebels and Al-Saiqa commandos tasked with delivering ammunition to Harawa was ambushed by a small force of Loyalists. Despite the initial blasts of roadside mines, the remnants of the convoy had to push through.

Assault on Bab Al-Aziziya: In late August, NTC rebels entered Tripoli. Many neighborhoods were easily taken, but the Bab Al Aziziya compound, a symbol of Gaddafi’s contemptible regime, was still intact. The compound had become a fortress that had to be taken.

Game Over: pro-Gaddafi stronghold of Sirte, an American Predator drone identified a Loyalist convoy leaving the city of On October 20th, 2011. The drone and French aircraft in the area attacked the convoy, and NTC rebels in the sector closed in on the commotion. Little did they know that Gaddafi was a passenger in the convoy. The stage was set for a vicious, climactic battle.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique



Defiance primarily utilizes Political Tracks to restrict and enhance operational/military capabilities of each side. Regarding the Political Tracks, four model will/cohesion of Ukraine and Russia and the assistance of their allies:

Zelenskyy: models strategic will of Ukraine to resist invasion
NATO: models levels of aid to Ukraine
Lukashenko: models Belarus’ participation during initial campaign
Putin: models infighting and friction within Russian power centers

These four Political Tracks, plus random events and game developments, impact Russian Strategic Morale; specifically as it relates to maintaining the attack on Kyiv and Chernihiv. If RSM gets too low (i.e. too far too the right on the RSM track), Russia may decide to disengage from their attack (or rout!) on Kyiv and Chernihiv. Our view is that Russia’s rout in Volume 1: Miracle on the Dnipro was a strategic morale break precipitated by Ukrainian battlefield success, an immediate critical threat to Russian lines of communication (LoCs), and quickly deteriorating Russian army morale. In future volumes of Defiance we intend to swap out the Lukashenko Track with a Russian Allies track, representing the Russian allies (ex: Iran) providing it with more capabilities (Logistical Points).

The position on a particular political track generates benefits and costs for a side. For example, as one moves to the right side on the NATO track (on all the tracks, the extreme right benefits Ukraine and the extreme left benefits Russia), Ukraine receives more LPs (Logistic Points), HQ chits (allowing for bonus HQ activations), and potentially additional units (platforms). Regarding the Lukashenko track, Russia gains more strikes, supply, and most importantly access to an invasion route further west (one with an actual supporting rail line) they either failed to use or were prevented from using.

The Political Tracks in turn drive the Russian Strategic Morale (RSM) track. The position occupied on the RSM generates a die roll at the end of the turn on Unity/In-Fighting Table: adding/subtracting LPs (Logistics Points) for Russia… and possibly tossing Mutiny, Inaction, and Infighting HQ chits into the mix. Essentially, as RSM wavers, more friction/less efficiency results for Russia to accomplish their tasks.



If players choose to play the Historical Scenario, there is an option to use pre-ordained positions on the political tracks each turn (our assessment of where those political tracks were each turn during the campaign); and avoid the mechanics that move the chits.

We’re also still baking in personalities. More on that another day.



Defiance uses various game design mechanics to reflect political dynamics in Volume 1: Miracle on the Dnipro including:

Political Tracks: Zelenskyy, NATO, Lukashenko, Putin
A Russian Strategic Morale Track
SitRep Cards
Unity/Infighting Table
Friction Chits: Mutiny, Inaction, Infighting HQ

So “movement” in the political sphere is driven by our assessment of what occurred – or reasonably could have occurred, random events, and player action/choice. We believe it will generate a strong narrative, provide players with a better understanding of political dynamics and, most importantly, create a “richer” simulation experience. The reason why some of us engage in conflict simulations (or play wargames) is to add a storyline to “chess”, introduce randomness (that unscripted stuff that happens in the real world and impacts the course of history), and place military conflict within some political context. Defiance reflects this.

e: "Churchill Status" and "Arsenals of Democracy" are going to come back to bite them if they ever get around to Vol. 3.

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

gradenko_2000 posted:

lmfao come on man

anyway,



Frosted Flake posted:

You're not far off



i'm not sure which of these is more deranged

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

atelier morgan posted:

i'm not sure which of these is more deranged

From what I've been able to glean into the patriotic Ukrainians GMT hired, for sure that game is going to be more deranged.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
I take it back - just keep making more WW2 games. Trying to branch out ends up being more distasteful than anything else.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique



There's a roll for all caps slava, what more could you want?

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:



Defiance primarily utilizes Political Tracks to restrict and enhance operational/military capabilities of each side. Regarding the Political Tracks, four model will/cohesion of Ukraine and Russia and the assistance of their allies:

Zelenskyy: models strategic will of Ukraine to resist invasion
NATO: models levels of aid to Ukraine
Lukashenko: models Belarus’ participation during initial campaign
Putin: models infighting and friction within Russian power centers

These four Political Tracks, plus random events and game developments, impact Russian Strategic Morale; specifically as it relates to maintaining the attack on Kyiv and Chernihiv. If RSM gets too low (i.e. too far too the right on the RSM track), Russia may decide to disengage from their attack (or rout!) on Kyiv and Chernihiv. Our view is that Russia’s rout in Volume 1: Miracle on the Dnipro was a strategic morale break precipitated by Ukrainian battlefield success, an immediate critical threat to Russian lines of communication (LoCs), and quickly deteriorating Russian army morale. In future volumes of Defiance we intend to swap out the Lukashenko Track with a Russian Allies track, representing the Russian allies (ex: Iran) providing it with more capabilities (Logistical Points).

The position on a particular political track generates benefits and costs for a side. For example, as one moves to the right side on the NATO track (on all the tracks, the extreme right benefits Ukraine and the extreme left benefits Russia), Ukraine receives more LPs (Logistic Points), HQ chits (allowing for bonus HQ activations), and potentially additional units (platforms). Regarding the Lukashenko track, Russia gains more strikes, supply, and most importantly access to an invasion route further west (one with an actual supporting rail line) they either failed to use or were prevented from using.

The Political Tracks in turn drive the Russian Strategic Morale (RSM) track. The position occupied on the RSM generates a die roll at the end of the turn on Unity/In-Fighting Table: adding/subtracting LPs (Logistics Points) for Russia… and possibly tossing Mutiny, Inaction, and Infighting HQ chits into the mix. Essentially, as RSM wavers, more friction/less efficiency results for Russia to accomplish their tasks.



If players choose to play the Historical Scenario, there is an option to use pre-ordained positions on the political tracks each turn (our assessment of where those political tracks were each turn during the campaign); and avoid the mechanics that move the chits.

We’re also still baking in personalities. More on that another day.



Defiance uses various game design mechanics to reflect political dynamics in Volume 1: Miracle on the Dnipro including:

Political Tracks: Zelenskyy, NATO, Lukashenko, Putin
A Russian Strategic Morale Track
SitRep Cards
Unity/Infighting Table
Friction Chits: Mutiny, Inaction, Infighting HQ

So “movement” in the political sphere is driven by our assessment of what occurred – or reasonably could have occurred, random events, and player action/choice. We believe it will generate a strong narrative, provide players with a better understanding of political dynamics and, most importantly, create a “richer” simulation experience. The reason why some of us engage in conflict simulations (or play wargames) is to add a storyline to “chess”, introduce randomness (that unscripted stuff that happens in the real world and impacts the course of history), and place military conflict within some political context. Defiance reflects this.

e: "Churchill Status" and "Arsenals of Democracy" are going to come back to bite them if they ever get around to Vol. 3.

Too bad their possible Vol II game went up in flames along with all those Leo2's.

BadOptics has issued a correction as of 04:44 on Feb 6, 2024

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

Frosted Flake posted:

The position on a particular political track generates benefits and costs for a side. For example, as one moves to the right side on the NATO track (on all the tracks, the extreme right benefits Ukraine and the extreme left benefits Russia), Ukraine receives more LPs (Logistic Points), HQ chits (allowing for bonus HQ activations), and potentially additional units (platforms). Regarding the Lukashenko track, Russia gains more strikes, supply, and most importantly access to an invasion route further west (one with an actual supporting rail line) they either failed to use or were prevented from using.

This is either deliberate or completely utterly by accident with nothing in between.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

BadOptics posted:

Too bad their possible Vol II game went up in flames along with all those Leo2's.

I'm going to assume Vol II is the triumphant conquest of Kherson and Kharkov.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
lukashenko gameplay better be things like growing beets and raising dairy cows.

BrotherJayne
Nov 28, 2019

Typo posted:

for me it devolves into like a 3+ small brawls in larger battles which is annoying. Realistically in ancient battles armies normally kept some semblance of a cohesive formation until one side routes

I mean, "which left flank will break the fastest?" was also a common archetype

Haven't played fog yet tho

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

Tankbuster posted:

lukashenko gameplay better be things like growing beets and raising dairy cows.

It's this, but the game designer will say it's bad because it's authoritarianism

Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

BrotherJayne posted:

I mean, "which left flank will break the fastest?" was also a common archetype

Haven't played fog yet tho

This is a tangent but this is a really interesting blog post on Hellenistic armies

https://acoup.blog/2024/01/26/collections-phalanxs-twilight-legions-triumph-part-ib-subjects-of-the-successors/

the tl;dr is that post-Alexandrian Hellenistic armies have being thought as degraded version of Alexander's army when in reality they were probably -more- powerful and sophisticated, the reason why they didn't do as well was that they were fighting tougher opponents than Alexander did in the 330s BC

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
As vile as that guy is, he's honest enough to drop the usual liberal mask to outright say some things which are usually left unspoken.



A lot of the rest of what he says is laughable, but this is something I'd like to glue in front of the faces of a lot of people who keep insisting that yanks are just propagandized or whatever.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



crazy how it's the same guy

I liked Bret's blog posts about Paradox games but when his blog dropped a random line about the Uyghur Genocide in an unrelated article and I heard his nerdy soy voice I knew his politics were poo poo

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Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

There were always hints in ACOUP when he would talk about economics, but lmao this is a lot more than I expected.

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