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BobHoward posted:there is no sane way to write a unified scheduler for the main and compute cpus on the ps3
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Feb 6, 2024 11:29
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pseudorandom name posted:wayland killing off the cancerous proliferation of window managers is a good thing op the window managers aren’t the worst problem, the profusion of toolkits is when GNUstep started, the Free Software and Open Source worlds could and should have lined up behind it instead they flailed around cloning Motif for a few years and then actively worked to superficially clone Windows 95’s superficial clone of the NeXT interface a couple of years later
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Feb 6, 2024 11:38
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hell the Free Software and Open Source worlds could have decided to clone NeWS or SunView even earlier, SunView probably would have been the best choice especially with support for the Sun pixrect API
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Feb 6, 2024 11:40
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wmaker was indeed the best, it's very unfortunate people got behind kde and gnome instead
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Feb 6, 2024 11:49
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wmaker was a pile of poo poo not even written using GNUstep
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Feb 6, 2024 11:57
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eschaton posted:the window managers aren’t the worst problem, the profusion of toolkits is
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Feb 6, 2024 12:40
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eschaton posted:lol if you aren’t more effective with overlapping windows get with the time gramps, no ipad kids are going to be messing about with any overlapping windows from here
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Feb 6, 2024 13:14
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gnustep is so hilariously bad that even window maker doesn't use it
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Feb 6, 2024 14:48
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eschaton posted:like xmonad is anywhere near cutting edge in a world where Andrew and NeWS and Genera existed nearly 40 years prior I was talking about X11/wayland themselves but sure why not
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Feb 6, 2024 16:07
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quote is not edit
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Feb 6, 2024 16:07
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:get with the time gramps, no ipad kids are going to be messing about with any overlapping windows from here when i sit in on zoom meetings at work with old grizzled industry veterans of data processing who are sharing their screen they're always slowly and clumsily sifting through a stack of fully maximized windows via the taskbar despite the existence of huge high res screens and the window manager having been invented like 40 years ago and it absolutely drives me up a wall. how do you work like that
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Feb 6, 2024 16:13
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because the taskbar is the wm op
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Feb 6, 2024 17:00
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I thought mycophobia meant that more like "why has the windows window manager not improved in 40 years" not "why does windows not have a window manager" but I might have misunderstood
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Feb 6, 2024 17:08
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im wondering why, with the window manager having been invented in the early 80s, no one seems to actually use it these days. multiple overlapping windows where you can see some of everything you're doing is good and efficient
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Feb 6, 2024 17:45
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mycophobia posted:multiple overlapping windows where you can see some of everything you're doing is good and efficient 
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Feb 6, 2024 17:46
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i either use one single window for a single application or tiled windows depending on what i'm doing i don't really have a systematic thing for this, which i believe most desktop-based WMs allow for, to allow different workflows and organization of info depending on user pref
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Feb 6, 2024 17:48
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im saying that if you're pulling a file from a folder and putting into a thing and running it, and then looking at the output in another folder, why not have the two open folders and the processing thing all on screen at once? why instead would you open up a fullscreen explorer window, navigate to the folder with the input file, open the thing that processes the file also in a fullscreen window, run it, go back to your fullscreen explorer window and navigate to the output path to look at it (and then discover there's a problem, navigate back to your input path, etc. etc.). that's what im having to watch when my coworkers have to do stuff during a meeting and it's excruciating. it's so much faster and mentally less burdensome to have everything laid out in front of you already. there are huge advantages in having a user-controlled spatial arrangement of a multi-part task in a single eyeful. im not crazy!
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Feb 6, 2024 18:05
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mycophobia posted:im saying that if you're pulling a file from a folder and putting into a thing and running it, and then looking at the output in another folder, why not have the two open folders and the processing thing all on screen at once? why instead would you open up a fullscreen explorer window, navigate to the folder with the input file, open the thing that processes the file also in a fullscreen window, run it, go back to your fullscreen explorer window and navigate to the output path to look at it (and then discover there's a problem, navigate back to your input path, etc. etc.). that's what im having to watch when my coworkers have to do stuff during a meeting and it's excruciating. it's so much faster and mentally less burdensome to have everything laid out in front of you already. there are huge advantages in having a user-controlled spatial arrangement of a multi-part task in a single eyeful. im not crazy! (I'm assuming "overlapping windows" means "partially overlapping windows" and therefore excludes tabs)
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Feb 6, 2024 18:13
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well tiling sucks because resizing one window means resizing all your other windows. why not have all the windows be whatever size you want
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Feb 6, 2024 18:15
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Resizing windows necessarily implies changing the space available to render other windows, which is effectively resizing them. Non-tiling window managers just lie about that. (I'm being somewhat facetious but I don't think there is actually that much point to having windows maintain their size arbitrary of how much remaining room there is) I think the real difference between people who like tiling and people who don't is whether you like setting the exact size and position of each window though. Having windows have arbitrary sizes and positions actually kind of annoys me. I feel the need to snap them all to a layout or it doesn't feel right. When I used a computer belonging to a friend who likes macs before, he liked having each folder have a different specific saved size/location in the finder or something and I found that gross mystes fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 18:16
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mystes posted:Resizing windows necessarily implies changing the space available to render other windows, which is effectively resizing them. Non-tiling window managers just lie about that. ok but the result of having floating overlappable windows is that i can resize this window containing a palette or toolbox or whatever to exactly what i want it to be when i want to access it and put it in an arbitrary location on screen with very little restriction or influence on whatever else is on screen. maybe it'll get lost under another window at some point but with a robust window manager allowing shading or lowering or expose you can get it back easily
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Feb 6, 2024 18:20
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If floating toolbars must be rendered as their own windows I think it's acceptable to have floating window support to handle stuff like that when necessary like in i3 for compatibility, but I think that having floating toolbars that are separate windows actually sucks
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Feb 6, 2024 18:22
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mycophobia posted:ok but the result of having floating overlappable windows is that i can resize this window containing a palette or toolbox or whatever to exactly what i want it to be when i want to access it and put it in an arbitrary location on screen with very little restriction or influence on whatever else is on screen. maybe it'll get lost under another window at some point but with a robust window manager allowing shading or lowering or expose you can get it back easily Floating WMs also have the concept of "focus" with windows in the back keeping their relative position and size but being momentarily hidden when they aren't needed. Something tiling managers completely lack. Changes of focus (when they even have that concept) in tiling managers necessarily entail changing the size and position of every single window forcing the user to reorient themselves completely.
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Feb 6, 2024 18:23
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when i say i do tiling i mean paperwm, which is very much all about not bothering to give anything size or location beyond some broad strokes. do nothing and you'll get some chunky side-by-side windows broadly arranged spatially by context and time. it is kind of a tab collectors wm except it doesn't have tabs. just let things cascade out horizontally. e: also floating a keystroke away, so to my mind the best of all worlds.
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Feb 6, 2024 18:23
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mystes posted:If floating toolbars must be rendered as their own windows I think it's acceptable to have floating window support to handle stuff like that when necessary like in i3 for compatibility, but I think that having floating toolbars that are separate windows actually sucks it's not just toolbars, though, it could be anything. opening a window, resizing it, and putting it somewhere, anywhere you want, seems infinitely more powerful to me than having all other windows automatically snap to a particular size and position in response
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Feb 6, 2024 18:34
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really you should be able to drag around and resize all the widgets in all applications too, *clearly* more powerful
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Feb 6, 2024 18:35
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mycophobia posted:well tiling sucks because resizing one window means resizing all your other windows. why not have all the windows be whatever size you want because wanting things is bad OP
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Feb 6, 2024 18:37
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Visions of Valerie posted:because wanting things is bad OP if you launch a process on the road, kill it.
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Feb 6, 2024 18:38
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:really you should be able to drag around and resize all the widgets in all applications too, *clearly* more powerful well sure, why not. as long as there's a set of sane defaults you can easily get back to i can't see it being worse than not letting you do that
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Feb 6, 2024 18:57
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nah nah nah, really the buttons should overlap each other in the defaults too, just to educate the user. if you do this default-tiled thing people will get into a lazy mindset where they don't use the full power of things being obscured by other things.
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Feb 6, 2024 18:59
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:nah nah nah, really the buttons should overlap each other in the defaults too, just to educate the user. if you do this default-tiled thing people will get into a lazy mindset where they don't use the full power of things being obscured by other things. i feel like you're willfully misinterpreting what i'm saying, and i don't appreciate it!
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Feb 6, 2024 19:02
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I think the problem is that your posts are overlapping with each other and partially obscuring the meaning
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Feb 6, 2024 19:05
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the gnome people have been threatening to switch to some sort of at least partially tiled window management lately, so it will be interesting to see where that goes
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Feb 6, 2024 19:53
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mystes posted:I think the problem is that your posts are overlapping with each other and partially obscuring the meaning
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Feb 6, 2024 20:04
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lemme try to illustrate better what im talking about here. im sorry if i were to use, say, gimp, an example i'm choosing because we know what it is and it allows a single window or multi-window interface, i would want to use it in multi-window because i can put toolboxes anywhere on the screen and make them any size and they stay that way, and i can size the image window however large i need it to be for whatever image i want to edit without affecting the size or position of the toolboxes, and the image window partially overlapping these toolboxes is fine as long as (this is the important thing) I can still get at them without resorting to alt+tab/taskbar and they continue to stay where and how i put them in the first place; i don't necessarily need to be staring at all of their contents at once. if i were in the single window mode and wanted to resize the image window everything else would get shifted around and make it very difficult to properly take advantage of muscle memory, all the little compartments are unnecessarily changing themselves to make space. its the same thing with floating vs tiling
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Feb 6, 2024 20:13
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shut the gently caress up all of you curses are the peak gui toolkit
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Feb 6, 2024 20:17
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FlapYoJacks posted:I was allowed to rant for 30 minutes about Flutter at FOSDEM, and drank way too much free beer. A+++ would do again (the last time I was here was 2020!) woah neat! was this a follow-on from your Buildroot work? got a video link?
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Feb 6, 2024 20:45
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outhole surfer posted:shut the gently caress up all of you this but unironically actually textual is way better than curses in tyool 2023
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Feb 6, 2024 20:45
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outhole surfer posted:shut the gently caress up all of you idk about you but I like being able to use the bottom right cell of my terminals
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Feb 6, 2024 23:21
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mycophobia posted:lemme try to illustrate better what im talking about here. im sorry overall this was a good attempt at a slow burn troll up to the point where you pretended to illustrate a point about making good ui leading with gimp.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:45
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