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The Colonel posted:haven't gotten to this bit yet but i'd guess the reason there's little mention of vanille and fang's loved ones being dead is because they died two billion years ago already you think they would at least react to it tho considering finding them is their whole motivation anyways ill await the colonels judgement on it
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Feb 6, 2024 21:49
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Vanille and Fang have already come to terms with their loved ones being dead because it has been 500 years. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 21:49
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ImpAtom posted:Vanille and Fang have already come to terms with their loved ones being dead because it has been 500 years. isnt the whole point of reaching the village trying to see if someone survived babypolis fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 21:50
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babypolis posted:(potential spoiler removed.) No, they are going back there because it is where Anima, the Fal'cie that originally branded them, came from and it is the only possible lead they might have.
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Feb 6, 2024 21:51
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i just didn't like the straight-line design but oddly i didn't love the open area either. but i do get why it makes thematic sense for the design to be how it is i don't have to like every FF though, there are so many of them after all. 12 is one of my favorites so i'm a sicko
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Feb 6, 2024 21:51
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The Colonel posted:anyway stop spoiling plot points in ff13 that i'm an hour away from actually reaching Sorry, that was my bad. I legit spaced on it.
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Feb 6, 2024 21:52
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The Colonel posted:anyway stop spoiling plot points in ff13 that i'm an hour away from actually reaching ah my bad
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Feb 6, 2024 21:53
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gently caress edit is not quote
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Feb 6, 2024 21:53
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I do love that every combination of paradigms, be it 2p or 3p had a unique name. Lovely stuff.
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Feb 6, 2024 22:04
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Mymla posted:I do not understand why people get so weird about being short one party member for parts of the game, the combat is extremely similar in both cases. You only directly control one of them either way, and the encounters are balanced for whatever party you have at the time. Because it limits your options and then just becomes tedious and boring. I’ll never forget when they forced Sazh and Vanille only in the game and it was just SOOOOOOO painfully boring to play that section. Almost quit the game right there.
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Feb 6, 2024 22:07
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babypolis posted:the whole tail end of pulse is such a mess in general story wise Oxxidation posted:after Bart’s first appearance the plot loses coherence and becomes a sequence of Things Happening, sometimes unconstrained by linear time All of Pulse is a disaster. Our heroes invent an objective for themselves based on nothing. "We can find a cure to our l'Cienes here!" ..why do you think this? Absolutely no reason. Then they are sad that the thing they made up doesn't exist. I love Chapter 12, Eden Under Siege, but our heroes from Chapter 11 and on are doing nothing but this. "Let's do stuff based on total bullshit." Bart says their Focus is to kill Orphan/destroy Cocoon? Well, our heroes will do exactly as he says but they will do it while claiming "saving Cocoon is our real Focus!" Why do you think this? Why are you doing everything the bad guy tells you to do? At least in most FF games when our heroes help the villains it's because they were tricked. The XIII party had the gift of the bad guy explicitly telling them what he wants them to do for him. They still do it, anyway.
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Feb 6, 2024 22:08
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NikkolasKing posted:All of Pulse is a disaster. Our heroes invent an objective for themselves based on nothing. "We can find a cure to our l'Cienes here!" ..why do you think this? Absolutely no reason. Then they are sad that the thing they made up doesn't exist. This has been gone over a half dozen times but you are literally misremembering the game and you keep refusing to acknowledge that no matter how often you're corrected. The exact setup of events is this: They go to Pulse and decide to go to the one potential place they know of where they might find any useful information. They get there and find out information but nothing helpful, just details about how hosed everything is. Bart shows up and goes "lol, I started a civil war in Cocoon. This doesn't have as good a success rate as my other plan but if you don't stop me then my plan might succeed anyway and if it doesn't then the majorit of the people you know are going to end up dead." The heroes got back to Cocoon with the explicit stated goal of stopping Bart's new plan, which is to get the rebel faction to destroy Cocoon's central control Fal'cie Orphan. They get there in time to stop it and defeat Bart in the process. Oh no! It turns out Orphan was in on it and killing Bart in front of it allowed them to fuse and Orphan to continue the plan. The protagonists now have the choice of stopping Orphan and dealing with the fallout without a rampaging Fal'cie destroying them or not doing that and Orphan fucks everything up anyway, so they go for the path where they can at least eliminate one problem and depend on finding a solution through courage and friendship. At no point is the team planning to destroy Orphan until it becomes literally the only option. They explicitly are going there to protect it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 22:14
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NikkolasKing posted:All of Pulse is a disaster. Our heroes invent an objective for themselves based on nothing. "We can find a cure to our l'Cienes here!" ..why do you think this? Absolutely no reason. Then they are sad that the thing they made up doesn't exist. its interesting because if you look at the summary in the codex its like a completely different story. in there its presented more like the heroes accepting their fate and basically going on a death march ImpAtom posted:
the game does an absolutely dire job of presenting all of this one way or another. the overhwelming feeling for me at this point of the story was "wait what the gently caress why" babypolis fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 22:14
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anyways like i said i will accept the coloners judgement on this matter as the final word on this discussion
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Feb 6, 2024 22:17
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Since the discussion is now Final Fantasy focused, I'll say that after beating Crisis Core Remake like 2 days ago, I'm an ardent Zack fan, much like Stranger of Paradise players love Jack. I would not be against Zack just showing up in other games like Gilgamesh and am very excited to inevitably being spoiled on if he's actually playable or has more cameos in Rebirth in about a month.
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Feb 6, 2024 22:32
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RareAcumen posted:Since the discussion is now Final Fantasy focused, I'll say that after beating Crisis Core Remake like 2 days ago, I'm an ardent Zack fan, much like Stranger of Paradise players love Jack. I would not be against Zack just showing up in other games like Gilgamesh and am very excited to inevitably being spoiled on if he's actually playable or has more cameos in Rebirth in about a month. Hes just such a normal dude, he rules.
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Feb 6, 2024 22:37
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Every 1st Class SOLDIER has a gimmick, and Zack's is that he doesn't.
Namnesor fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 22:39
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Zack really just does genuinely own. Also Zack's gimmick is that he is the best at squats.
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Feb 6, 2024 22:43
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ImpAtom posted:
Protect Orphan from what? A bunch of random normal humans? 1. We saw what Bart can do to a room of normal humans, the Cavalry was never capable of killing Orphan. 2. Even if they could theoretically kill it, we know fal'Cie can do whatever they want to humans through simply making them l'Cie. That's exactly what happened, every last Cavalry person was turned into a cie'th. We see it happen in the final chapter. At that point our heroes could have turned right around and walked away. As for this part specifically: quote:The protagonists now have the choice of stopping Orphan and dealing with the fallout without a rampaging Fal'cie destroying them or not doing that and Orphan fucks everything up anyway, so they go for the path where they can at least eliminate one problem and depend on finding a solution through courage and friendship. I can't even understand your argument here because killing Orphan is the problem. The end of the world and everyone dying happens solely because of Orphan's death and our heroes knew this the whole time. By killing Orphan, they are explicitly, knowingly, dooming everyone on Cocoon. Everyone would 100% be dead without literal divine intervention.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:00
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Zach was great in the original Crisis Core, too. I've got my eye on the remake mostly for him. He's just a huge dork who wants to do the right thing even if he thinks the right thing is being a power company's poorly-informed mercenary hitman. Also the stuff about Sephiroth having a fandom in Midgar that is almost as weird about him as real-world fandom is, while Sephiroth himself is just a surprisingly chill dude.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:04
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ImpAtom posted:Zack really just does genuinely own. 'YEAH! I'm getting pumped!'
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Feb 6, 2024 23:08
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I just beat Titan in FF16 and jesus christ that was so overwrought. What a PS3-rear end era game, except of the cool visuals of Asura's Wrath I got the desolate greyness of "being inside a rock" and "standing on a rock" and "falling through 100 miles of rock"
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Feb 6, 2024 23:12
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goblin week posted:I just beat Titan in FF16 and jesus christ that was so overwrought. What a PS3-rear end era game, except of the cool visuals of Asura's Wrath I got the desolate greyness of "being inside a rock" and "standing on a rock" and "falling through 100 miles of rock" It was based.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:15
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NikkolasKing posted:Protect Orphan from what? A bunch of random normal humans? 1. Orphan is, prior to fusing with Bart, literally defenseless. Like some other Fal'cie it isn't a combat wombat, it's just something that maintains Cocoon. The only reason that it hasn't been killed before was because the Cocoon Fal'Cie literally can't. It's not something they can do. It is against their program. Humans can absolutely kill it but why would they in normal situations, they had to be manipulated. Orphan is only combat capable after they kill Bart in front of it and he throws the last of his body into Orphan's pool as he dies. 2. They heroes could not have turned around and walked away because Bart was still there. They could have shrugged and walked away but the end result is that nothing actually changes, Bart starts a new plan. They went to kill Bart because their choice was kill Bart or not kill Bart and then he does this poo poo again. They never planned to fight Orphan until they had absolutely no choice and even then they refused to act or do it until they revived from their corpse state through the power of the human spirit to create miracles and decided to bet on that because the other choice was dying and then Orphan doing the same poo poo as Bart. Like maybe you forget the scene where Vanille and Fang are literally being tortured into killing Orphan? They didn't go WE ARE GONNA KILL ORPHAN WOO, they resisted it until the heroes pull a friendship humanity miracle out of their rear end. A thing that is previously established as possible and is the stated reason l'cie exist in the first place. "Have you ever paused to consider our reason for making l'Cie of men? We fal'Cie are crafted for a single purpose, and granted finite power to that end. With men it is not so. Men, dream, aspire, and through indomitable force of will achieve the impossible. Your power is beyond measure." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 23:16
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Ibram Gaunt posted:It was based. Yeah, based on gaming trends of 00s!
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Feb 6, 2024 23:18
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ImpAtom posted:
I'll be honest, this never really came across to me. Maybe I'm stupid, but I remember my interpretation of the plot being more or less what nikkolas posted. Either way, the worst part of ff13 is definitely the plot. It's kinda meandering and disjointed and just plain not very good. Which is a pity, because the setting *is* pretty good, and they definitely could have told a much better story in that setting. Apparently they did in the sequels, and my initial impressions of 13-2 were good, but I lost my save like 8 hours in and never bothered restarting.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:22
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I love Lightning Returns but I'm not so much sure it is a better story as a completely different story shoehorned into the FF13 world (aside from like three scenes.)
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Feb 6, 2024 23:24
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Also it has a time limit all the time! I still have nightmares over that number ticking down!
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Feb 6, 2024 23:25
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RareAcumen posted:Also it has a time limit all the time! I mean it does but you also get the ability to freeze time for extended periods of time and can use fights to chain this together to the point where the timer doesn't exist and you'll spend the last 5 days napping because you already did everything and also killed every member of every species in the world.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:26
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LRs timer and time stop are so generous that even on my blind first run I got everything but 1 quests done and still had to sleep through 4 of the 13 days worth of time to trigger the end game.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:31
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gently caress it, fine, installing FF13 to see if I can't bash my way past the Snow Wall. Maybe turning on JP voices will make him more tolerable.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:36
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:LRs timer and time stop are so generous that even on my blind first run I got everything but 1 quests done and still had to sleep through 4 of the 13 days worth of time to trigger the end game. Same. It's (thankfully) extremely generous.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:43
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Ibram Gaunt posted:It was based.
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Feb 7, 2024 00:07
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Mymla posted:I'll be honest, this never really came across to me. Maybe I'm stupid, but I remember my interpretation of the plot being more or less what nikkolas posted. IMO well the sequels do tell better (or, at least, more immediately coherent) stories, they also ditch a lot of the more interesting setting conceits of the original.
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Feb 7, 2024 00:09
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ff13's writing has issues but the plot is perfectly parseable, goons are just stupid however it is meandering and disjointed yes
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Feb 7, 2024 00:10
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ff13's problems are more just that because they rendered all the cg cutscenes so far in advance they hadn't really planned out how they'd connect together beforehand so the way the game transitions around gets wonky and some of the characters prominently featured in them don't actually do very much outside of them
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Feb 7, 2024 00:13
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however it kind of rules that this leads to a sequence in which sazh does a sick drift around a boss arena in a mechanized supercar and then dramatically points his gun to his head and says "i'm going to kill myself" with zero breaks in between
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Feb 7, 2024 00:14
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The Colonel posted:this is my favorite 2-man paradigm shift lol
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Feb 7, 2024 00:15
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pulse is the funniest area for this stuff cause it's the most obvious like "oh gently caress we didn't plan out how these scenes would connect together" thanks to its weirder structure so you get things like fang going "ok we're going to stop here and rest" and suddenly lightning and snow have warped over to a grassy hill to cap off the arc of their relationship turning into a fully supportive and caring one, before they warp away and you never see this grassy hill again cause they never actually rendered it for in-game use. we will never get to learn what this hill was or how they reached it. mystery hill
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Feb 7, 2024 00:18
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the funniest "we rendered these cutscenes early in dev" thing in a game to me will always be vexx for gamecube where halfway through the game you get a cg cutscene where someone is like vexx, you must go find the four waymark towers and activate them to thwart the bad guy's scheme. none of this happens in the game part of vexx. there are no towers. they cut the towers from the game months before launch but they couldn't afford to re-render the cutscene. these are the perils, of cg cutscenes
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Feb 7, 2024 00:20
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