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Eandr posted:Sorry for linking the fake news site. Thought it read a bit weird but couldn't remember seeing anything about the script in this thread. Now I know why. I mean Jim Kirk vs. Milton Berle's 28 foot long penis would be a great TOS episode, but yeah there's a TON of fake news bullshit websites that have cropped up lately as nerd spaces have chuddified post-2016. The biggest purveyors of bullshit tend to be sites like Giant Freaking Robot, We Got This Covered, Bleeding Fool (designed to trick people into thinking it's legitimate website Bleeding Cool), Cosmic Book News and Bounding Into Comics. They'll all just run with absolute bullshit and because they're not beholden to any journalistic standards or peer oversight don't bother retracting or correcting any of their fakery.
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Feb 6, 2024 03:17
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They tend to also have a weird Thing about Kathleen Kennedy and Star Wars iirc
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Feb 6, 2024 11:03
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I just had a brilliant idea. I don't do audiobooks. Ever. I read books with words using my eyes. But if a publisher got Jerry Hardin to read Mark Twain's books as Mark Twain I WOULD SPEND ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY TO BUY EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
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Feb 6, 2024 14:12
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Kesper North posted:They tend to also have a weird Thing about Kathleen Kennedy and Star Wars iirc If by "weird Thing" you mean they invent some new story out of whole cloth about how Disney is deeply unsatisfied with her and she's about to be fired? Yeah, that poo poo's been happening since about four seconds after the moment Daisy Ridley was announced to be fronting the Star Wars sequel trilogy a decade ago.
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Feb 6, 2024 15:12
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Today on the M'Qlaflan Group: Jem'Hadar: with or without honor?
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Feb 6, 2024 16:52
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Timby posted:If by "weird Thing" you mean they invent some new story out of whole cloth about how Disney is deeply unsatisfied with her and she's about to be fired? Yeah, that poo poo's been happening since about four seconds after the moment Daisy Ridley was announced to be fronting the Star Wars sequel trilogy a decade ago. Kathleen Kennedy and Alex Kurtzman have been fired like 30 times now each over the last 6 years according to these weirdos. It's kinda hilarious.
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Feb 6, 2024 17:37
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Kurtzman for sure deserves it imho (but for different reasons than those chuds think I'm guessing) but Kennedy had the misfortune of getting bought out by a Disney that was fully prepared to squeeze Star Wars dry from day one and having to deal with that
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Feb 6, 2024 20:54
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Feldegast42 posted:Kurtzman for sure deserves it imho (but for different reasons than those chuds think I'm guessing) but Kennedy had the misfortune of getting bought out by a Disney that was fully prepared to squeeze Star Wars dry from day one and having to deal with that She also had to relearn the lesson that George Lucas did that the secret to appeasing Star Wars Fans is "you can't", so now she's just kind of in the "gently caress it, let Filoni make whatever he wants, I don't give a poo poo" phase of parenting the ever-screaming toddler that is guys in their 40s and 50s with rooms full of Kenner action figures and playsets.
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Feb 6, 2024 21:15
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I read the first couple of DS9 relaunch novels over the past few days - first Trek books I've read since like Dark Mirror and Q2 in the 90s- and you know what - not too shabby. I will admit they are the easiest books in the world to read, I know what every character looks and sounds like. As far as comfort reading they're great, I was reading old Robert McCammon stuff like They Thirst and Baal and they're the literary equivalent of a fly covered dead dog corpse. I've been real edgy because of IRL things and 80's horror was not doing me any favors. For pure escapism, the relaunch books are great, you barely have to think and they play like movies in your head. They're behind the eight ball since they are without the S-tier characters: Sisko, Miles, Worf, Odo, Garak, Rom, etc. but the authors I've read so far do a good job of writing in the voices of the characters, it's very easy to hear the dialogue as if they were spoken by the actors themselves. Also IDK about Elias Vaughn, 101 years old and still an O-5, but everyone respects him more than God and he can call Adm. Ross "Bill" and Picard's like "this guy is so cool". We shall see. I got the reading order for the whole relaunch series across all the shows and I'll follow that until I get bored with it or start to hate it, but so far they don't suck like I thought they might. I'd say they track with what one might consider a decent two-parter episode. Lots of the authors wrote episodes of this or that series so they know how to put together ST plots and characters. Also Tarana'tar rules, he's definitely the Spock/Data/Doctor/Seven of the first books.
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Feb 6, 2024 21:37
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Feldegast42 posted:Kurtzman for sure deserves it imho (but for different reasons than those chuds think I'm guessing) It really is a continuing mystery why they keep extending the contract of the guy who has steered the Trek franchise into the strongest state it's been in for decades rather than firing him
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Feb 7, 2024 00:59
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Seemlar posted:It really is a continuing mystery why they keep extending the contract of the guy who has steered the Trek franchise into the strongest state it's been in for decades rather than firing him Doesn't seem to say much. Trek would be the strongest its been in decades no matter how much of a poo poo job he did, since, like, it has actual shows.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:04
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Still in series 1 of TNG. Justice is such a loving strange episode. Have them constantly bang on about the prime directive but to just be visiting this random pre-warp civilization. Then there's a super powerful God in orbit. Feels extremely TOS, where there's no rules and just anything goes. The Battle is a funny one too. DaiMon Bok telling Picard about the Battle of Maztika and Picard all "What??", but it's the name of the system that his FIRST SHIP got abandoned in. A ship that apparently has lessons about it at the academy! Alright yea they're calling it the "battle of" and he doesn't but it just seems such a stupid thing to have him not know. And then again (with a 'you're welcome ladies') Wesley saves the day. It's like a saturday morning cartoon with how often he saves the ship just randomly. Series 1 really suffers from this and man it's no wonder people really hated him.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:06
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Yeah but you gotta watch em. That's the rule.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:47
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Picard not recognizing the name works if the Ferengi have a different name for the system and the Universal Translator didn't catch the reference
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Feb 7, 2024 01:52
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"Justice" is one of those episodes that makes it so easy to believe that Season 1 is mostly recycled Phase II scripts, when IIRC only one or two actually are.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:53
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I think Justice might've been the last time where people in Star Trek were all freaked out by an alien scanning technology loving up their ship. That idea was big for a while. Star Trek has since generally veered away from the idea of the galaxy being full of beings and civilizations impossibly more advanced and more complicated than our own to the point we (or the people of the Federation) can barely comprehend them. The original series I think was more of an even 50/50 split between civilizatio/phenomenae more advanced and less advanced than the Federation. That's kind of a shame, but also I understand it's not easy to keep writing weird new ineffable things and maintain the other parts of the tone that Star Trek sets.
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Feb 7, 2024 02:11
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The idea of weird and ineffable has also moved on a bit since then. I don't think the TV people are reading enough litSF to pull it off, quite frankly.
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Feb 7, 2024 02:18
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CPColin posted:Picard not recognizing the name works if the Ferengi have a different name for the system and the Universal Translator didn't catch the reference They could have played it that way but Bok says it, Picard goes "What" and Data says "he's talking about the fight you had in the system named the thing he just said" Lemniscate Blue posted:"Justice" is one of those episodes that makes it so easy to believe that Season 1 is mostly recycled Phase II scripts, when IIRC only one or two actually are. Yea they do love a good "here's a mysterious space being" but I guess it's probably less because Phase II and because of Gene? It's a really shite episode. TWO episodes in the first 10 have the writers take their name off it because they don't think it matches their original scripts!
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Feb 7, 2024 03:15
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Lemniscate Blue posted:"Justice" is one of those episodes that makes it so easy to believe that Season 1 is mostly recycled Phase II scripts, when IIRC only one or two actually are. I know they didn't outright reuse scripts until later, but S1 was still largely the same creative/writing team that were there for Phase II, right? Certainly would explain the weird tone of S1 compared to what 90s Trek grew into.
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Feb 7, 2024 03:21
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Yeah, the 90s Trek tone and formula was shepherded in by Michael Piller.
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Feb 7, 2024 03:24
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Yeah Hurley sucked. He got rid of Beverly because McFadden didn’t like how female characters got shunted to the background. Piller is a big part of why TNG is so good.
zoux fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Feb 7, 2024 |
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Feb 7, 2024 03:32
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zoux posted:Yeah Hurley sucked. He got rid of Beverly because McFadden didn’t like how female characters got shunted to the background. Beverly disappeared because McFadden wouldn't sleep with Hurley.
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Feb 7, 2024 03:39
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Lemniscate Blue posted:"Justice" is one of those episodes that makes it so easy to believe that Season 1 is mostly recycled Phase II scripts, when IIRC only one or two actually are.
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Feb 7, 2024 03:49
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Kesper North posted:The idea of weird and ineffable has also moved on a bit since then. I don't think the TV people are reading enough litSF to pull it off, quite frankly.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:01
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I like Devil's Due.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:13
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SlothfulCobra posted:Star Trek has since generally veered away from the idea of the galaxy being full of beings and civilizations impossibly more advanced and more complicated than our own to the point we (or the people of the Federation) can barely comprehend them. The original series I think was more of an even 50/50 split between civilizatio/phenomenae more advanced and less advanced than the Federation. That's kind of a shame, but also I understand it's not easy to keep writing weird new ineffable things and maintain the other parts of the tone that Star Trek sets. At some point, Federation Captain and Determined Crew standing up to God starts to raise the question of "aren't they the god-like beings coming out of the sky?" too many times. Then it gets old and there's no tension because of course they're going to defeat Odin or whoever. Weirdly, the lower stakes threats are more interesting issues. Like Data forgets that's not an ice wizard and has to figure out why people need to stop drinking the radiation water on Renaissance Europe Planet.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:20
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Nessus posted:This is making me think of a Lower Decks episode about executing second contact with a civilization that wasn't hostile but was elbow-deep in the Dark Forest hypothesis. Well okay if any of them is reading litSF it's definitely the Lower Decks people I see you, putting a Kzin on a ringworld
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Feb 7, 2024 04:45
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Sash! posted:At some point, Federation Captain and Determined Crew standing up to God starts to raise the question of "aren't they the god-like beings coming out of the sky?" too many times. Then it gets old and there's no tension because of course they're going to defeat Odin or whoever.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:50
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Taear posted:They could have played it that way but Bok says it, Picard goes "What" and Data says "he's talking about the fight you had in the system named the thing he just said" Oh nice lol
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Feb 7, 2024 05:16
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"Workforce" is possibly the strongest two-parter in Voyager. It's coherent. It has stakes. The character moments have weight to them. The whole conspiracy feels all too plausible and it's an excellent commentary on fascist, hyper-capitalism. Plus, every character seemed to have something to contribute to the resolution in some way. The crew really came together in a way that felt both memorable and meaningful. This and Void actually make me want to watch more Voyager. But then you get Human Imperfection right after that and once again we're in yikes territory. Still can't believe we had a whole episode on systemic racism where the conclusion was that the minorities really were violent and dangerous and sometimes you just have to learn to accept the death penalty. Voyager sure did have some social commentary, didn't it?
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Feb 7, 2024 05:25
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zoux posted:I read the first couple of DS9 relaunch novels over the past few days - first Trek books I've read since like Dark Mirror and Q2 in the 90s- and you know what - not too shabby. Vaughn is a decent character that falls into that trope of Star Trek's 'everyone knows/served with everyone'. And he kinda gets done dirty later on, too. The relaunch novels themselves aren't bad, some creative choices work better than others, especially when trying to figure out where to go from the finale. Bashir and Dax both get some interesting character arcs down the line, and Andy Robinson's excellent A Stich in Time is considered part of the relaunch and well worth the read if you can find it.
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Feb 7, 2024 06:29
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Wee Bairns posted:Andy Robinson's excellent A Stich in Time is considered part of the relaunch and well worth the read if you can find it. It's been re-released as an ebook and, more importantly, an audiobook read in character by Robinson.
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Feb 7, 2024 06:30
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I found a physical copy in the wild a few months ago and the guy who unlocked the case it was in at Half Price books said he was extremely confused when someone brought in a massive box of Trek paperbacks and the computer said one was actually worth enough to put it in the locked display cabinet.
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Feb 7, 2024 06:48
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Sash! posted:At some point, Federation Captain and Determined Crew standing up to God starts to raise the question of "aren't they the god-like beings coming out of the sky?" too many times. Then it gets old and there's no tension because of course they're going to defeat Odin or whoever. Yeah, I'm not sure I really liked the mysteriously powerful beings all that much (although it's not always certain that the Enterprise will defeat them, like with the Organians, the half and half aliens, the space whales, or that weird nebula pervert). But the biggest thing you do lose when you leave out the powers far beyond the Federation is that sense of them being underdogs. You also get a sort of natural Federation chauvinism when they seem to be just uncontestedly better than any other space society, which also makes it twice as damning when they do gently caress up and there's something wrong with them, they're not just dudes trying to figure things out, they're the dominant power.
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Feb 7, 2024 15:34
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I think overall I preferred Babylon 5's take on these "so powerful they're gods" aliens which is that mostly they didn't give a poo poo about humans, and when some of them started caring too much about humans and other "young races" it set off an intergalactic war, rather than just being dissuaded by a good Captain Speech and roll credits.
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Feb 7, 2024 15:53
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SlothfulCobra posted:Yeah, I'm not sure I really liked the mysteriously powerful beings all that much (although it's not always certain that the Enterprise will defeat them, like with the Organians, the half and half aliens, the space whales, or that weird nebula pervert). If I was responsible for a new series, I'd have the primary adversary be not entirely an adversary: a peer state with a comparable military and technological capabilities, approximately the same size, willing to expand but not through force of arms, and convinced that it is superior to the Federation. No cartoon warrior race or obviously evil empire. Another liberal democracy out there that is just doing things a different way than the Federation. Sometimes the Federation proves them wrong and sometimes the Federation has to take an L.
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Feb 7, 2024 16:59
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FISHMANPET posted:when some of them started caring too much about humans and other "young races" it set off an intergalactic war, then was dissuaded by a good Captain Speech and roll credits.
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Feb 7, 2024 17:00
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Sash! posted:If I was responsible for a new series, I'd have the primary adversary be not entirely an adversary: a peer state with a comparable military and technological capabilities, approximately the same size, willing to expand but not through force of arms, and convinced that it is superior to the Federation. I won't go into detail because zoux just started reading them, but IMO this was one of the best decisions the old novels made.
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Feb 7, 2024 17:02
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SlothfulCobra posted:Yeah, I'm not sure I really liked the mysteriously powerful beings all that much (although it's not always certain that the Enterprise will defeat them, like with the Organians, the half and half aliens, the space whales, or that weird nebula pervert). It's kind of a nervous conclusion with Nagilum, where you have to assume he let them go. There's no "okay humans I give up" from him.
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Feb 7, 2024 17:04
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FISHMANPET posted:I think overall I preferred Babylon 5's take on these "so powerful they're gods" aliens which is that mostly they didn't give a poo poo about humans, and when some of them started caring too much about humans and other "young races" it set off an intergalactic war, rather than just being dissuaded by a good Captain Speech and roll credits. 100% agreed, the way they do it in TNG and TOS is boring and honestly sort of stupid. The way justice ends is HILARIOUS with this, captain picard just going "Actually what if you're wrong" and god just goes yea, sure
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Feb 7, 2024 17:44
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