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Zero VGS posted:This new set seems pretty weak on a power-creep level? The clue-weapons are like embarrassingly overcost and the Case cards don't seem nearly as impactful as Battles. Bringing the power level down is fine and probably a good thing in the long term, MKM just looks very boring. Not sure who missed Morph enough that they felt the need to run it back even with ward stapled on, and despite all the moving pieces (evidence, investigate, etc) it feels less synergistic than LCI. Making "Detective" a new creature type instead of using "Advisor" or something else that would support an existing tribe makes me think they didn't learn anything from the D&D set or the Party mechanic experiments. I'm more excited about some of the stronger uncommons - Long Goodbye, Call a Surprise Witness, Gleaming Geardrake, Insidious Roots, No More Lies, and the Lighting Helix reprint - than any of the rares in the set, except for maybe nu-Massacre Girl.
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Feb 6, 2024 21:54
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it seems like a pretty fun set for limited so far even if it might not have a lot of constructed impact in the long run and i'm okay with that happening with a set that's also just real fun flavorwise but also i wouldn't count stuff out from having constructed impact yet
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Feb 6, 2024 21:59
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i'm curious to see if the new pack style is going to make draft feel significantly different. there being more rare/mythic bombs per table will, i imagine
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Feb 6, 2024 22:23
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MKM Event #1: Sealed https://sealeddeck.tech/bPWigB2txn Pool seemed strong? I thought about green, but Red fliers seemed like a good plan for day one, the pair with blue seems strong and there's sacrifice artifact synergies. White splash for Alquist and Meddling Youths (and kinda fuss/bother) seems doable? Maybe 1 plains is enough for the splash, getting 2 red pips by 3 seems important Edit: what is the mana value of a split card.... CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 22:32
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Split cards cmc are both halves put to together. Cease//Desist is 8.
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Feb 6, 2024 22:38
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But Adventures are just the cost of the creature right?
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Feb 6, 2024 22:51
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thespaceinvader posted:But Adventures are just the cost of the creature right? Yes, they are the mana value of the creature except when the non creature part is on the stack.
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Feb 6, 2024 22:54
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Simply Simon posted:Sure, you gotta try with the pool you have. Thanks for the advice, I got my three wins, at least, though the RNG immediately decided I was done for the day once I had. And pretty glad to have gotten a copy of Leyline out of the draft, got big plans for it in an extremely dumb five-color Detective tribal deck (I wanna see how far I can push Cavern of Souls), once the Alchemy set comes out and I have a more complete picture of my options.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:01
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Interesting interaction from this deck: what happens if I pass over control of something that is echanted with Coerced to Kill, with Coveted Falcon? Does it immediately come back? https://www.17lands.com/deck/ce8281cab7a04d489bc5e8c0d4280326 ALso how is it looking? Playing tomorrow.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:05
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Bugsy posted:Split cards cmc are both halves put to together. Cease//Desist is 8. man, looking at Cease//Desist... the power creep is real. Headstone wept Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 23:08
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thespaceinvader posted:Interesting interaction from this deck: what happens if I pass over control of something that is echanted with Coerced to Kill, with Coveted Falcon? Does it immediately come back? No it will not come back. Play more than 16 land.
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Feb 6, 2024 23:11
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Lone Goat posted:No it will not come back. I thought I was, I had to adjust because autoland put in green and white for the morph guys. What's the cut? E: also what about handing over the enchantment itself? E: lol, literally every jump in deck i've played against (and mine) has had SLime Against Humanity thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 23:11
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Zero VGS posted:This new set seems pretty weak on a power-creep level? The clue-weapons are like embarrassingly overcost and the Case cards don't seem nearly as impactful as Battles. I know, isn't it great?
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Feb 6, 2024 23:57
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Just found out from the midweek magic that it's really easy not to target a spell with Repulsive Mutation so be careful of that, limited players
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Feb 7, 2024 00:43
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Just had an absolutely horseshit set of drafts, like 0/3, 0/3, 4/3. 1/3 On one game I had a chance my mouse disconnected randomly long enough for me to miss a turn. Just constantly seeming like my opponents had the exact card they needed. Th last game spent drawing only one colour land so I was constantly limited on which plays I could make, Urgh
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Feb 7, 2024 01:27
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Getting double gems in the midweek with a brand new set out is some loving bullshit.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:37
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thespaceinvader posted:I thought I was, I had to adjust because autoland put in green and white for the morph guys. What's the cut? Slime Against Humanity was absolutely wrecking me. I tried to run Bant Detective Evidence, which is a bad idea. Evidence does not synergize with Detectives really. Eventually got my 3 wins after just scooping quick against the Slime Hordes. Love that exile does nothing. The red guy who is a Double Strike Vigilance Brutal Cathar seems pretty nutty to put into a jump in pack. What a beating.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:40
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What the hell, one of my rares is a 4 mana 1/1 that cant block. Glad to go against teysa and aurelia multiple times and this garbage is in a deck that wotc made.
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Feb 7, 2024 02:06
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try attacking with it to draw cards
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Feb 7, 2024 02:13
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I had easy wins with GW Disguised Slimes. Would recommend.
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Feb 7, 2024 02:53
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Looks like no new Starter decks, if I’m not mistaken. Idk when those are typically updated.
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Feb 7, 2024 02:54
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Mostly it's been during the summer.
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Feb 7, 2024 02:59
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thespaceinvader posted:I thought I was, I had to adjust because autoland put in green and white for the morph guys. What's the cut? I had to try Slime Against Humanity. Verdict: it's hilarious (but not that strong?)
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Feb 7, 2024 03:11
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Elusive Detectives went 3-0, saw a lot of slimes on the other side but they didn't really do anything.
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Feb 7, 2024 03:36
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I made a slime deck called Slimes Against Humanity Forensics and each half actively worked against the other half. Do not recommend that combo at all.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:34
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Show and Tell is on Arena now- https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Txfq1dJhbESpIWq2UJNhZw
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Feb 7, 2024 04:37
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My MWM gave me a 2nd pack choice where there were no overlapping colors so I have a 4-color pile with 4/4/4/4 land mix. Gee, thanks Wizards, what a fun intro Don’t pick UB to start I guess
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Feb 7, 2024 04:48
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djfooboo posted:I made a slime deck called Slimes Against Humanity Forensics and each half actively worked against the other half. Do not recommend that combo at all. They're not exactly super synergistic but uh, SAH also works with copies of SAH in exile, those two packets work together fine?
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Feb 7, 2024 04:56
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C-Euro posted:Show and Tell is on Arena now- via The List?
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Feb 7, 2024 05:30
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Played a couple sealed events and got wrecked, plus two ranked limited drafts. Seems a lot slower than Caverns and less obvious in terms of synergies? I’m sure it’s just me not being super great at magic yet, but dang this feels a lot more challenging than the last two sets. Biggest question is when to go three color. It seems like the majority of my opponents are opting for this route, but doesn’t seem obvious to me during the draft and deck build
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Feb 7, 2024 05:32
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Does this set have the same morph cost threshold, where anything below 6 mana to flip bounced or traded with anything else with that cost?
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Feb 7, 2024 05:39
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Rinkles posted:Does this set have the same morph cost threshold, where anything below 6 mana to flip bounced or traded with anything else with that cost? It was below 5, and yes, but there's a couple cards that soft-break the Rule of Five because they leave something behind even if they flip and trade (like Dog Walker and Museum Nightwatch)
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Feb 7, 2024 05:51
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I got back on this narcotic around ONE and I’ll echo the sentiment that this has been the toughest set to get my head wrapped around. I did a prerelease and a premier draft and although I went 2-1 with my jank pile at the LGS I think that was due to playing a Boros deck that didn’t have much for new mechanics. I tried to get into some disguisey Sultai stuff in the premier draft and got whomped 0-3.
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Feb 7, 2024 05:57
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Dopplegang might be broken? I cloned an Dramatic Accusation and spent a minute fighting the interface to enchant creatures until it timed out and just created two duplicates attached to the same permanent. Kept saying "select 3" or "select 2" targets, but when I clicked on multiple creatures it didn't increment correctly or ever let me continue. I... don't think that's how copying enchantments is supposed to work?
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Feb 7, 2024 06:07
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Also merry "lightning helix can be crafted for uncommon wildcards" to every one who celebrates amen
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Feb 7, 2024 07:46
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Alright, so, I'm getting eager to waste a bunch of wildcards on a dumb concept deck, so I thought I'd inquire about people's thoughts regarding five-color Detective tribal. For clarity, I'm designing for the Alchemy format, so the deck will likely be updated whenever the Alchemy cards get released. As it stands now the central mechanic is clearly Investigate/Clue usage, as well as Detective synergies, and I plan to include some Cases, but let me break down my thoughts as I see them so far: Legends: So, when I'm making a deck like this, I like to identify which Legendary creatures I want present first, since I tend to just go one-off on them so they're not a big investment of resources. For this deck, I naturally want Alquist Proft, though he's more of a late-game enabler than the big playmakers I prefer seeing here (though, when X equals 3+, he sure as hell produces some value), but the vast majority of relevant cards for the deck are White/Blue and he's the "main" Detective so it'd be weird not to have him. Ezrim, on the other hand, can definitely make things happen, with his ability to turn Clues into keywords for himself (solid protection, too, with Hexproof-on-demand). Agrus Kos has a handy ability for dealing with an opponent's beatsticks (possibly a bit slow, but great for punishing Suspect decks), and given that there are a lot of Red detectives that fit the playstyle, there's room for him, colorwise. Lazav has a very interesting effect that has the potential to be pretty fun, though I'll likely be relying entirely on Cavern of Souls or Leyline of the Guildpact to get his black mana. Kellan gives me some ramp, plus artifact removal/free Clue-cracking (minus the sac trigger), and I'm probably gonna have some green mana in the deck anyway. Special Lands: Cavern of Souls is obviously going in. I'm not sure if I'll be using any other Legendary cards beyond the creatures, so Plaza of Heroes probably isn't it. Seachrome Coast and Adarkar Wastes are naturally going in, as are their equivalents in Green/White, plus the Red/White painland. I'm unsure about including the other nonblack painlands or fast lands, it depends on what other cards officially make the cut. The Detectives: The most important part of the deck, naturally, are the actual detectives, and a fair number of them don't really do anything for the main strategy of the deck. I found the guys that did, and broke them up into three groups: those that I'm certain are important to the deck (though if I'm mistaken, let me know), those that could potentially be good (and this is where I'd most appreciate outside input, to help sort the wheat from the chaff), and those I'm skeptical about, but whose effects are ostensibly relevant (and maybe you guys see usefulness that I don't). -Definitely: Novice Inspector (Solid 1-drop for the deck, gets you a Clue right off the bat), Private Eye (buffs your board, and can grant battle protection in a pinch), Perimeter Enforcer (Flying and Lifelink are nice on their own, but the buffs when Detectives ETB is a great bonus, seems like a worthy 2-drop), Forensic Gadgeteer (the Clue-generating ability isn't too great, but making Clues cheaper to crack seems pretty great), Reckless Detective (cracks clues to gain his attack, seems solid if the Clue engine can keep up, and could help with Collect Evidence shenanigans, as well), Meddling Youths (mid-size body, Haste, and one of the easiest Investigate conditions), Sharp-Eyed Rookie (gets buffs and Investigates as you play more creatures, seems like a no-brainer to me), Wojek Investigator (excellent keywords, stats that put it out of range of lightning bullshit and Cut Down, and Investigates if you're low on cards, seems perfect to me) -Maybe: Homicide Investigator (Investigates easily, but would likely require me to actually include Black mana), Tenth District Hero (Evolves into a pretty rad Legendary, and I'm toying with including some Collect Evidence anyway, but I'm not fully sold on it), Evidence Examiner (if I do end up using Collect Evidence, being able to trigger Investigate off of it sounds good), Sample Collector (the third Collect Evidence detective I think could potentially work), Case File Auditor (I'm planning to use at least a couple Cases, so getting to search for more after I solve them seems like a good deal), Cold Case Cracker (feels maybe a touch overpriced, but with buffs active, could pressure the opponent into spending removal on it, which gets me more Clues), Marketwatch Phantom (feels like he has anti-synergy with Private Eye, so I'm unsure about him), Jaded Analyst (with the synergies on the board, I could see him getting some work in, but he dies to Shock without a buff, which ain't great), Loxodon Investigator (it's a deck with a lot of card draw, so it's not hard to trigger his buff, but the wording makes it once per turn, so I can't say I'm impressed), Mistway Spy (interesting dual usage, either face-up in the early game for a 1-drop flyer, or for 3 and then 2 in the mid to late game to potentially get a bunch of Investigates off, but I'm unsure how well it would work in practice) -Unlikely: Conspiracy Unraveler (cool concept, but Collect Evidence 10 seems pretty steep for a deck with no self-mill), Hotshot Investigators (they definitely feel too pricey, to me, would actually prefer they have Disguise, so the self-bounce could be used as a dodge effect), Exit Specialist (allows for something more like what I actually want from the Hotshots, but no Investigate; getting its toughness to 3+ would make it fairly dangerous), Curious Cadaver (the ability to recycle itself is neat, and it synergizes well with Chalk Outline, but it's kind of expensive), Surveillance Monitor (more Collect Evidence synergy, triggers off other cards' CE effects, but doesn't advance the main gameplan much), Undercover Crocodelf (no matter how you use it, it feels too expensive, and your opponent is unlikely to let you get the Investigate effect more than once), Seasoned Consultant (it gets a Battalion buff, but that's all it brings to the table), Projektor Inspector (I've never been a huge fan of draw-and-discard, though if Collect Evidence is viable, he may actually be pretty good as a way to fuel that), Persuasive Interrogators (requires even more black mana, but as long as they survive just one enemy turn, I can crack Clues and win, so they just barely warrant some consideration) Noncreatures: I may run one copy of Leyline of the Guildpact, for its potential to fully fix my mana if it's in my opening hand (hopefully I can just play around Protection From effects). Case of the Pilfered Proof is obviously of vital importance. Case of the Locked Hothouse seems like a handy ramp option, especially if I'm drawing a lot of cards, while Case of the Trampled Garden seems like a natural synergy with my other buffs. With all my Clues, I could run Case of the Filched Falcon, but it feels kinda low-value, and Case of the Shattered Pact fits in perfectly with Leyline (on top of the mana-fixing on ETB, doubly useful with Locked Hothouse), but may not be worth it if I don't have both in play. Case of the Gateway Express seems like an interesting means of removal that turns into a minor buff afterwards, not sure how good it is in practice, though. Burden of Proof strikes me as a versatile way to either buff my creatures, or disable an opponent's. Chalk Outline looks like the card to have if I plan to use a Collect Evidence engine in the deck, and I do love making creature tokens. Drag the Canal seems neat, but would require Black mana (and no getting around it with Cavern of Souls). Thinking Cap is amusing, but doesn't strike me as particularly valuable (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd love to run four hats), and Detective's Satchel seems neat in a vacuum, but I don't think it generates enough value on its own to take up a spot in the deck. Then there's stuff like Warleader's Call, which seems rad, but it's hard to say if it's worth using. Since it's a deck with a lot of White and Blue, though, No More Lies seems like a natural fit, and I'd love to experiment with Repulsive Mutation (unless it turns out it's terrible), and I do definitely need the counterspells, because until Alchemy rotates this fall and finally gets rid of those godawful Phyrexians, Sheoldred is still there making games just the most miserable possible experiences and it's always satisfying to counter her. And this isn't even getting into cards from outside MKM (though, this is a dumb gimmick deck, so maybe I don't need 'em). So, I know that was a whole lotta words about a stupid deck idea, but I'm curious what you think would make, I suppose, the least bad version of this. Is Collect Evidence viable as a secondary mechanic? Am I completely wrong in my analysis of the cards? Is there a Detective I didn't bring up who would actually really pull the whole thing together? Do I maybe like Cavern of Souls a little too much and am now just trying to force a tribal deck on a new set because I want to participate in the new set but don't want to give up my favorite lands? I dunno, but I at least had fun theorycrafting about it, and hopefully some of you guys might, as well. EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Feb 7, 2024 |
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Feb 7, 2024 09:44
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Sounds interesting and thematic if nothing else, you might also consider Brawl where you might be rewarded more for not gradually tuning your deck into a more generic domain soup or something. Might also be worth doing some drafts and sealed to hopefully get some of the cards you want and also see how they play in their natural habitat.
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Feb 7, 2024 10:13
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Toozler posted:My MWM gave me a 2nd pack choice where there were no overlapping colors so I have a 4-color pile with 4/4/4/4 land mix. Gee, thanks Wizards, what a fun intro exact same thing happened to me. cool! guess i don't get to do this mwm! like what the gently caress is this 
Hooplah fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Feb 7, 2024 |
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Feb 7, 2024 12:52
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Having fun with MKM limited so far. One small complaint I have is that a lot of the cool collect evidence support cards care specifically about creatures leaving the graveyard, rather than any spell which makes them a lot worse. I had a cool BGw deck with a bunch of them + Kaya and a lot of collect evidence, but most my evidence-collecring was on instants/sorceries as was a lot of my topend, with only 12 creatures. Two of my losses was partly down to running out of creatures specifically in my GY so I couldn't keep making 2/2 detectives or drain for 1 with the black uncommon enchantment Also entitely unrelated but I can't believe they made a completely new card type and then just left it while they fart around with a this other poo poo. We hear all the time that they design sets years in advance and can shuffle things around, which makes this even more stupid. Also I feel like their pivot to more specifically-themed sets centered around specific scenarios (or IPs) is counterproductive to such a fairly specific type-name as Battle in the first place. Theoretically the name allows for theming around a streetfight or a boxing bout or whatever, but I am not sure the smaller scopes match the mechanics and function of battles very well. A magic duel is already a smaller-scale individual conflict between planeswalkers, it makes some sense for large-scale Siege Battles in a plane invasion to be important enough to have their own section ofthe battlefield, but not so much if it's a slapfight between Joe and Schmoe. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Feb 7, 2024 |
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Feb 7, 2024 12:54
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Limited seems OK so far, quite tempo based but not that fast. The ward on disguise creatures does have a meaningful impact on how they play which I'm surprised by.
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Feb 7, 2024 13:09
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