[Pestilence] https://youhavetoliveyour.life/

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Pestilence] https://youhavetoliveyour.life/

(Thread IKs: PoundSand)

kazmeyer: Jul 26, 2001; 'Cause we're the good guys.

Raskolnikov2089 posted:

Still waiting on more than one study that says that. There have been a number of drugs with promising initial results (fluvoxamine for one) that ended up not really doing anything.

It's absolutely anecdotal, but my GP treats a lot of diabetes patients and tends to rely more on high-dose Metformin rather than constantly moving folks off to whatever the new hotness is, and she's said she's had way better results in terms of COVID mortality and long COVID among that group than she would've expected at this point.

I figure we'll have good science on whether or not it works by the 2030s at the rate COVID studies are going though.

# ? Feb 6, 2024 23:25

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# ? May 26, 2024 05:41

Milosh: Oct 14, 2000; Forum Veteran

She�s got an appointment with TesttoTreat. I think her kid had it last week. I�m symptom free so far. Will test again tomorrow.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 00:19

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Why Am I So Tired posted:

Does anyone have any info or articles that get into why 5 days of Paxlovid was a business decision / how 10 days should have been the standard dose? (other than Fauci taking 10 days) I could have sworn there was something at some point.

You are not going to find something explicitly stating that. What I can tell you is that Pfizer did test 10 days in the initial trial and you can see the difference pretty clearly if you go down to the 10+ days of symptoms here:

Pingui posted:

(..)
Symptoms

(..)

So why five days? Well, the initial test was 5 or 10, so it had to be one of those. As 5 days proved highly effective at decreasing deaths and hospitalizations it could get approved and as 10 days would require twice the production at a time when everyone was screaming for supply, it isn't a massive stretch of the imagination to figure they would rather have double the revenue than half. That's as much proof as you will get.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 00:30

Gunshow Poophole: Sep 14, 2008; OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069; Clapping Larry

Steve Yun posted:

mechanism behind why some Covid infections cause immune deregulation and others don’t may have been discovered

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300644120

Most of this is flying over my head, but the main points:

Covid variants that cause more death have a proteome that’s higher in cationic amino acids than other variants

The proteome releases peptide shrapnel when the virion gets destroyed by the immune system

these peptide fragments spontaneously reassemble with RNA shrapnel

these reassembled junk piles are the right size and shape to trigger an immune response, making your body think it’s still under attack

This is neat, thanks for posting and giving it a go I'm a try to dig in later

# ? Feb 7, 2024 00:52

Gunshow Poophole: Sep 14, 2008; OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069; Clapping Larry

Milosh posted:

She’s got an appointment with TesttoTreat. I think her kid had it last week. I’m symptom free so far. Will test again tomorrow.

Hell yeah good going

Keep it up and yall will make it just fine

# ? Feb 7, 2024 01:00

kreeningsons: Jan 2, 2007

anyone tried to make a diy nasal spray from diluted povidone-iodine? flew out on a work trip today so I need some of that poo poo but i forgot my carrageenan nasal spray at home.

found this random source https://medhelpclinics.com/resources/advice-from-the-doctor/at-home-treatment-protocol-for-covid-19

# ? Feb 7, 2024 01:12

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Someone should do something...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rampant-covid-poses-new-challenges-in-the-fifth-year-of-the-pandemic/ posted:

Rampant COVID Poses New Challenges in the Fifth Year of the Pandemic
�We�re still in a pandemic,� says a lead COVID official with the World Health Organization

For four years now, either as a physical virus or as a looming threat, the COVID-causing pathogen SARS-CoV-2 has been the elephant in every room�sometimes confronted and sometimes ignored but always present. While once we dreamed of eradicating COVID, now much of society has resigned itself to SARS-CoV-2�s constant presence�a surrender that would once have been unthinkable.
(..)
Throughout the past four years, Maria Van Kerkhove, now interim director of the WHO�s Department of Epidemic and Pandemic Preparedness and Prevention, has helped lead the agency�s response to COVID. Scientific American spoke with Van Kerkhove about entering the fifth year of a pandemic that many want to ignore despite its permanent impact on lives around the world.

How would you describe the overall state of COVID at this point in the pandemic?
COVID�s not in the news every day, but it�s still a global health risk. If we look at wastewater estimates, the actual circulation [of SARS-CoV-2] is somewhere between two and 20 times higher than what�s actually being reported by countries. The virus is rampant. We�re still in a pandemic. There�s a lot of complacency at the individual level, and more concerning to me is that at the government level.

Lack of access to lifesaving tools such as diagnostics, therapeutics and vaccines is still a problem. Demand for vaccination is very low around the world. The misinformation and disinformation that�s out there is hampering the ability to mount an effective response.
(..)
What�s it like emotionally to be so deep in trying to understand and respond to the pandemic?
It�s pretty incredible. I mean, I can�t believe we�re entering year five of COVID.

There are some massive mental health impacts, globally, that we�re not dealing with. I�m dealing with my own, which I�m only now starting to reflect upon. I didn�t give it a chance�I didn�t have the opportunity to give time to it�but now I�m actually taking some time because this is not normal. The COVID pandemic was not normal. This amount of death is not normal. It didn�t have to be this way.*

Instead of �What should we have done differently?� I say, �What can we do differently today?� I feel so determined to really keep this marathon up. Maybe it�s not in the news, but our work hasn�t stopped. It�s heavy, I would say. It�s a lot, and I don�t want to sugarcoat it.

You mentioned the mental health impacts that we�re neglecting�what would you like to see the world do on that front?
I am very pleased to see the global focus on mental health and really recognizing the unintended consequences of the interventions that many countries put in place [to contain the virus]. They�ve had massive impacts: societal impacts, social impacts, economic impacts and mental health impacts.
(..)

as long as it doesn't interfere with society or economics.

*I wanted to highlight this part, because it tickles me that I said something very similar a month ago:

Pingui posted:

(..)
Within the confines of history all of this is not normal. This situation is not normal. Humanity has never been in this situation before and the notion that there is a natural baseline to return to is - frankly - insane.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 02:10

maxwellhill: Jan 5, 2022

Pingui posted:

You are not going to find something explicitly stating that. What I can tell you is that Pfizer did test 10 days in the initial trial and you can see the difference pretty clearly if you go down to the 10+ days of symptoms here:

So why five days? Well, the initial test was 5 or 10, so it had to be one of those. As 5 days proved highly effective at decreasing deaths and hospitalizations it could get approved and as 10 days would require twice the production at a time when everyone was screaming for supply, it isn't a massive stretch of the imagination to figure they would rather have double the revenue than half. That's as much proof as you will get.

they tested 20 people? why are things like this so low powered

# ? Feb 7, 2024 02:34

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

maxwellhill posted:

they tested 20 people? why are things like this so low powered

It's a secondary analysis for symptoms only. If you click the link back to my old post, you can see the main large cohort results as well.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 02:41

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

Pingui posted:

Anything else would have been idiotic, so I am kinda surprised at the ruling.

Seems par for the course? Chuds interpret 1A as "Anything stopping me from doing anything ever is censorship" so of course someone brought that case

# ? Feb 7, 2024 02:48

Animal-Mother: Feb 14, 2012; RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

Pingui posted:

It didn�t have to be this way.*

I know your asterisk was meant to connect to your own comment, but reading casually it looks like the asterisk was meant to lead to some official disclaimer like "It did, in fact, have to be this way."

# ? Feb 7, 2024 02:58

FUCK COREY PERRY: Apr 19, 2008

maxwellhill posted:

Alpha, Delta, Omicron, rear end

# ? Feb 7, 2024 03:07

Morbus: May 18, 2004

Frosted Flake posted:

Well my assumption here is that the unimaginable becomes imaginable when even quarterly profits can�t be maintained.

Which isn�t to say they�d succeed, only that the New Deal was the result of capitalism rapidly running out of rope before the cool zone, and I would guess that there would be a similar �oh poo poo� moment here as even printing money and a media in lockstep reporting good vibes can�t keep stock prices up?

I mean, there are like a half dozen recent books about how the one two punch of the Great Recession and Covid spell the end of whatever this system is, and I suppose people within the system might want to preserve it at some point.

I�m not saying this would be guided by reason or morality or anything, but the need to keep number going up.

Then again, we ought to have seen that in Germany and haven�t�

There is a very common pattern throughout history:

1.) A new theory or technique emerges that, while imperfect, is successful in at least some ways

2.) Eventually, the theory reaches its limits and is not capable of making accurate predictions

3.) Adherents to the now-failing theory busy themselves with constructing excuses or post-hoc modifications, which only ever seen to "explain" the most recent crisis while failing to restore any broader explanatory power

4.) Eventually, the failing theory is replaced by a better one--usually by people who have only ever known the failure of the previous theory

Societies can get stuck on #3 for a surprisingly long time, and people who have spent their whole lives believing that a particular system "works" are ill-suited to course correct even when everything is plainly collapsing around them. People who are confronted with challenges to their foundational knowledge are much, much better at making excuses than they are at doing anything reasonable.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 05:46

Raskolnikov2089: Nov 3, 2006; Schizzy to the matic

Morbus posted:

There is a very common pattern throughout history:

1.) A new theory or technique emerges that, while imperfect, is successful in at least some ways

2.) Eventually, the theory reaches its limits and is not capable of making accurate predictions

3.) Adherents to the now-failing theory busy themselves with constructing excuses or post-hoc modifications, which only ever seen to "explain" the most recent crisis while failing to restore any broader explanatory power

4.) Eventually, the failing theory is replaced by a better one--usually by people who have only ever known the failure of the previous theory

Societies can get stuck on #3 for a surprisingly long time, and people who have spent their whole lives believing that a particular system "works" are ill-suited to course correct even when everything is plainly collapsing around them. People who are confronted with challenges to their foundational knowledge are much, much better at making excuses than they are at doing anything reasonable.

Max Planck posted:

[A] new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 06:01

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Pingui posted:

You are not going to find something explicitly stating that. What I can tell you is that Pfizer did test 10 days in the initial trial and you can see the difference pretty clearly if you go down to the 10+ days of symptoms here:

So why five days? Well, the initial test was 5 or 10, so it had to be one of those. As 5 days proved highly effective at decreasing deaths and hospitalizations it could get approved and as 10 days would require twice the production at a time when everyone was screaming for supply, it isn't a massive stretch of the imagination to figure they would rather have double the revenue than half. That's as much proof as you will get.

I realize it's a tiny sample and there's much more data now and there are other measures like percent needing hospitalization not just days of symptoms but... isn't that chart rather bad for 5 days? 5/22 were sick for 2+ weeks!

I know it was discussed a while ago but is it typical for antibiotics for similarly unpleasant bacteria to be given in doses that lead to rebounds like pax is? Like every time I get antibiotics I'm told to take them all as prescribed and not stop just because I feel better, but I don't remember being warned that there's a chance of a rebound worse than the initial infection and if that happens then oh well too bad.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 07:51

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019; Can't post for 22 hours!

Chamale posted:

Had a dream that I had a beard and accidentally shaved it into a Hitler mustache, so I had to keep my mask on all day. But I already keep my mask on all day anyway.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 08:29

Bald Stalin: Jul 11, 2004; Can't post for 2 hours!

Ordered me some strep lozenges the power of placebo alone probably worthwhile thanks thread

# ? Feb 7, 2024 08:35

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

https://twitter.com/ikepoker/status/1755064939654647908

# ? Feb 7, 2024 09:31

Soap Scum: Aug 8, 2003

if they think masking gives you a psychological advantage then why not just wear a mask

# ? Feb 7, 2024 09:36

Bald Stalin: Jul 11, 2004; Can't post for 2 hours!

Phil wore reflective sunglasses he's just an attention seeker

# ? Feb 7, 2024 09:39

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Soap Scum posted:

if they think masking gives you a psychological advantage then why not just wear a mask

# ? Feb 7, 2024 09:42

Notorious R.I.M.: Jan 27, 2004; up to my ass in alligators

that one is doubly amusing because ike haxton is a good as hell poker player and phil helmuth is a washed up dumbass.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 11:03

Zugzwang: Jan 2, 2005; You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.; Ramrod XTreme

Pingui posted:

Someone should do something...

Ty again for all the science and other stuff that you post :tipshat:

# ? Feb 7, 2024 12:15

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Precambrian Video Games posted:

I realize it's a tiny sample and there's much more data now and there are other measures like percent needing hospitalization not just days of symptoms but... isn't that chart rather bad for 5 days? 5/22 were sick for 2+ weeks!

I know it was discussed a while ago but is it typical for antibiotics for similarly unpleasant bacteria to be given in doses that lead to rebounds like pax is? Like every time I get antibiotics I'm told to take them all as prescribed and not stop just because I feel better, but I don't remember being warned that there's a chance of a rebound worse than the initial infection and if that happens then oh well too bad.

It is pretty bad, yes. But with an 86% reduction in hospitalizations and deaths (which iirc was their initially demonstrated 5 day effectiveness), they already had a more than viable product. They were not going to be able to take a double (price-gouging) price when halving the courses, so the question was if they wanted to sell 20 million courses at $700 to the US government, or if they wanted to sell 10 million courses at $700 to the US government? And tbf, if Paxlovid hadn't been gate-kept worldwide to the extent it has, it might even have been the human thing to do, as there were legitimately severe capacity limits at the onset.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed now, but that would require Pfizer initiating a new expensive FDA approval process, that would be much less likely to succeed. All to double their production cost, without actually creating new revenue. I can see how that is never going to happen within the framework of capitalism.

As to the antibiotics parallel, my old post said this:

quote:

From a stewardship perspective keeping the current course duration, is akin to reducing antibiotics courses if it doesn't affect direct deaths or hospitalizations.

That would be a very dumb thing to do for antibiotics and I feel reasonably confident that a new antibiotic (not that this happens much) where rebounds happened to the same extent, would have the course duration adjusted to curb that.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 12:18

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

lol, you don't say?
"New analysis reveals many excess deaths attributed to natural causes are actually uncounted COVID-19 deaths"

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-02-analysis-reveals-excess-deaths-attributed.html posted:

_{Ratios of excess natural-cause deaths to reported COVID-19 deaths across US counties from March 2020 through August 2022. In panel A, darker counties represent counties with higher ratios of excess natural-cause mortality to reported COVID-19 mortality. In panel B, darker counties represent counties where there is greater certainty that excess natural-cause deaths exceeded reported COVID-19 deaths during the period. Suppressed values reflect counties in which the cumulative number of reported COVID-19 deaths was less than 10 deaths.}

A new study provides the most compelling data yet to suggest that excess mortality rates from chronic illnesses and other natural causes were actually driven by COVID-19 infections, disproving high-profile claims that have attributed these deaths to other factors such as COVID vaccinations and shelter-in-place policies.

Nearly 1,170,000 people have died from COVID-19 in the United States, according to official federal counts, but multiple excess mortality studies suggest that these totals are vastly undercounted. While excess mortality provides an estimation of deaths that likely would not have occurred under normal, non-pandemic conditions, there is still little evidence into whether the SARS-CoV-2 virus contributed to these additional deaths, or whether these deaths were caused by other factors such as health care disruptions or socioeconomic challenges.
(..)
Published in the journal PNAS, the study compared reported COVID-19 deaths to excess deaths due to non-COVID natural causes, such as diseases and chronic illnesses, and found that increases in non-COVID excess deaths occurred at the same time or in the month prior to increases in reported COVID-19 deaths in most US counties.

Focusing on excess deaths by natural causes rather than all-cause excess death estimates provides a more accurate understanding of the true number of deaths attributable to COVID-19, as it eliminates external causes for mortality, such as intentional or unintentional injuries, for which COVID-19 would not be a contributing factor.

"Our findings show that many COVID-19 deaths went uncounted during the pandemic. Surprisingly, these undercounts persisted well beyond the initial phase of the pandemic," says study corresponding author Dr. Andrew Stokes, associate professor of global health at BUSPH, who has led numerous studies analyzing excess mortality patterns and drivers during the pandemic.
(..)
For the study, Dr. Stokes, Dr. Paglino, and colleagues utilized novel statistical methods to analyze monthly data on natural-cause deaths and reported COVID-19 deaths for 3,127 counties over the first 30 months of the pandemic, from March 2020 to August 2022. They estimated that 1.2 million excess natural-cause deaths occurred in US counties during this time period, and found that roughly 163,000 of these deaths did not have COVID-19 listed at all on the death certificates.

Analyzing both temporal and geographical patterns of these deaths, the researchers found that the gap between these non-COVID excess deaths and reported COVID-19 deaths was largest in nonmetropolitan counties, the West, and the South�and that the second year of the pandemic saw almost as many non-COVID excess deaths in the second year of the pandemic as in the first year, contrary to previous research. Meanwhile, metropolitan areas in New England and the Mid-Atlantic states were the only areas to report more COVID-19 deaths than non-COVID excess deaths.

Many of these geographical differences in death patterns are likely explained by differences in state policies, COVID death protocols, or political biases by local officials that influenced COVID policies. In rural areas, for example, COVID-19 testing was more limited, and political biases or stigma around COVID may have affected whether COVID-19 was listed on a death certificate.

Conversely, reported COVID-19 deaths may have exceeded non-COVID excess deaths due to successful mitigation policies that encouraged physical distancing and masking, and likely lowered cases of other respiratory diseases. Certain state protocols, such as in Massachusetts, also enabled death investigators to list COVID-19 as an official cause of death within 60 days of a diagnosis (until March 2022), rather than the 30-day limit in other states.
(..)

Study proper:
"Excess natural-cause mortality in US counties and its association with reported COVID-19 deaths"

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2313661121 posted:

Significance
Official COVID-19 mortality statistics have not fully captured deaths attributable to SARS-CoV-2 infection in the United States. While some excess deaths were likely related to pandemic health care interruptions and socioeconomic disruptions, temporal correlations between reported COVID-19 deaths and excess deaths reported to non-COVID-19 natural causes suggest that many of those excess deaths were unrecognized COVID-19 deaths. Efforts to target resources during public health emergencies should consider geographic variation in the quality of mortality surveillance data. Incomplete or delayed cause-of-death reporting may obscure impacts in some areas, leading to ineffective and inequitable responses and evaluations of the pandemic�s effects. To address this, future pandemic preparedness and response efforts should include activities to strengthen the death investigation system.

Abstract
In the United States, estimates of excess deaths attributable to the COVID-19 pandemic have consistently surpassed reported COVID-19 death counts. Excess deaths reported to non-COVID-19 natural causes may represent unrecognized COVID-19 deaths, deaths caused by pandemic health care interruptions, and/or deaths from the pandemic�s socioeconomic impacts. The geographic and temporal distribution of these deaths may help to evaluate which explanation is most plausible. We developed a Bayesian hierarchical model to produce monthly estimates of excess natural-cause mortality for US counties over the first 30 mo of the pandemic. From March 2020 through August 2022, 1,194,610 excess natural-cause deaths occurred nationally [90% PI (Posterior Interval): 1,046,000 to 1,340,204]. A total of 162,886 of these excess natural-cause deaths (90% PI: 14,276 to 308,480) were not reported to COVID-19. Overall, 15.8 excess deaths were reported to non-COVID-19 natural causes for every 100 reported COVID-19 deaths. This number was greater in nonmetropolitan counties (36.0 deaths), the West (Rocky Mountain states: 31.6 deaths; Pacific states: 25.5 deaths), and the South (East South Central states: 26.0 deaths; South Atlantic states: 25.0 deaths; West South Central states: 24.2 deaths). In contrast, reported COVID-19 death counts surpassed estimates of excess natural-cause deaths in metropolitan counties in the New England and Middle Atlantic states. Increases in reported COVID-19 deaths correlated temporally with increases in excess deaths reported to non-COVID-19 natural causes in the same and/or prior month. This suggests that many excess deaths reported to non-COVID-19 natural causes during the first 30 mo of the pandemic in the United States were unrecognized COVID-19 deaths.

A quick note here. Because you had a reduced disease burden from other diseases, this is likely still an under count, though admittedly it is contentious if a person dying from COVID instead of influenza should be counted as excess, it is something that should be considered in the public health sphere.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 12:43

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Zugzwang posted:

Ty again for all the science and other stuff that you post

# ? Feb 7, 2024 12:43

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Morbus posted:

There is a very common pattern throughout history:

1.) A new theory or technique emerges that, while imperfect, is successful in at least some ways

2.) Eventually, the theory reaches its limits and is not capable of making accurate predictions

3.) Adherents to the now-failing theory busy themselves with constructing excuses or post-hoc modifications, which only ever seen to "explain" the most recent crisis while failing to restore any broader explanatory power

4.) Eventually, the failing theory is replaced by a better one--usually by people who have only ever known the failure of the previous theory

Societies can get stuck on #3 for a surprisingly long time, and people who have spent their whole lives believing that a particular system "works" are ill-suited to course correct even when everything is plainly collapsing around them. People who are confronted with challenges to their foundational knowledge are much, much better at making excuses than they are at doing anything reasonable.

I imagine the teleology of the end of history helps. If you truly believe nothing else is possible, I suppose there are no slings and arrows you can't weather.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 13:47

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/more-brits-are-off-sick-than-we-first-thought/ posted:

Full extent of sick-note Britain revealed

We already know that Britain has a massive sick-note problem but we did not, until today, know just how large. Every three months, the ONS surveys 35,000 people and uses the results to guess how many (for example) are not working due to long-term sickness. That figure had been 2.6 million. But it has today been revised upwards by 200,000 � equivalent to the population of Norwich or Aberdeen � to 2.8 million. The chart of those too sick to work, already one of the most alarming in UK economics, now looks even worse.

(..)

# ? Feb 7, 2024 13:57

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Cope weasel: "T-Cells will protect us!"

T-Cells: :blastu:

"Bystander activated CD8+ T cells mediate neuropathology during viral infection via antigen-independent cytotoxicity"

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-44667-0 posted:

Abstract
Although many viral infections are linked to the development of neurological disorders, the mechanism governing virus-induced neuropathology remains poorly understood, particularly when the virus is not directly neuropathic. Using a mouse model of Zika virus (ZIKV) infection, we found that the severity of neurological disease did not correlate with brain ZIKV titers, but rather with infiltration of bystander activated NKG2D+CD8+ T cells. Antibody depletion of CD8 or blockade of NKG2D prevented ZIKV-associated paralysis, suggesting that CD8+ T cells induce neurological disease independent of TCR signaling. Furthermore, spleen and brain CD8+ T cells exhibited antigen-independent cytotoxicity that correlated with NKG2D expression. Finally, viral infection and inflammation in the brain was necessary but not sufficient to induce neurological damage. We demonstrate that CD8+ T cells mediate virus-induced neuropathology via antigen-independent, NKG2D-mediated cytotoxicity, which may serve as a therapeutic target for treatment of virus-induced neurological disease.

News article on the matter:
"Immune response, not acute viral infections, responsible for neurological damage, McMaster researchers discover"

https://healthsci.mcmaster.ca/immune-response-not-acute-viral-infections-responsible-for-neurological-damage-mcmaster-researchers-discover/ posted:

For years, there has been a long-held belief that acute viral infections like Zika or COVID-19 are directly responsible for neurological damage, but researchers from McMaster University have now discovered that it�s the immune system�s response that is behind it.

The research, published on Feb. 5, 2024 in Nature Communications, was led by Elizabeth Balint, a PhD student at McMaster, and Ali Ashkar, a professor with the Department of Medicine and the Canada Research Chair in Natural Immunity and NK Cell Function.

�We were interested in trying to understand why so many viral infections are associated with neurological diseases,� says Balint. �Our evidence suggests that it�s not the virus itself that causes the damage, but a unique population of T cells, which are part of the immune system, that are actually responsible for the damage.�

To come to this conclusion, the McMaster team focused on Zika virus. During laboratory testing, researchers, as expected, found T cells that were specific for Zika and designed to eliminate infected cells. They found something else, too.

�What was interesting in our study is that although we did find some T cells specific for Zika, we identified cells that weren�t functioning like a normal T cell and were killing lots of cells that weren�t infected with Zika.�

These cells are called NKG2D+CD8+ T cells and researchers say their aggressive response is responsible for neurological damage suffered from infections beyond just Zika, like COVID-19 and even septic shock.

The aggressive response is the result of the body producing large amounts of inflammatory proteins called cytokines, which in moderation help to coordinate the body�s response in battling an infection or injury by telling immune cells where to go and what to do when they arrive.

�If our body�s immune cells overreact and over produce inflammatory cytokines, this condition will lead to non-specific activation of our immune cells which in turn leads to collateral damage. This can have severe consequences if it happens in the brain,� Ashkar says.

The discovery offers researchers and scientists a new target for treatments of neurological diseases sparked by acute viral infections. In fact, Balint has already found a treatment that holds promise.

�Elizabeth has experimented with an antibody that can completely block and treat devastating neurotoxicity in the animal model, which is already in clinical trials for different uses in humans,� says Ashkar.

Balint hopes to continue her work towards finding a treatment that would be effective in humans.

�There are a few different other viruses we�re interested in studying, which will aid us in creating the best treatment options,� Balint says.
(..)

# ? Feb 7, 2024 14:05

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

https://x.com/inkblue01/status/1754948093190025249?s=46

# ? Feb 7, 2024 14:09

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Pingui posted:

lol, you don't say?
"New analysis reveals many excess deaths attributed to natural causes are actually uncounted COVID-19 deaths"

Study proper:
"Excess natural-cause mortality in US counties and its association with reported COVID-19 deaths"

A quick note here. Because you had a reduced disease burden from other diseases, this is likely still an under count, though admittedly it is contentious if a person dying from COVID instead of influenza should be counted as excess, it is something that should be considered in the public health sphere.

We straight up had coroners in the US in 2020 and beyond saying they don't put Covid on death certificates because of "stigma"

# ? Feb 7, 2024 15:15

sonatinas: Apr 15, 2003; Seattle Karate Vs. L.A. Karate

at urgent care for my spouse for 3rd time in 2 months and someone there asked about our kf94s. they�re dicknosing a surgical and was like �it�s hard to breathe� but she was very receptive to how the kf94 fits so they wrote it down.

this is all so stupid.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 16:34

WrasslorMonkey: Mar 5, 2012

Steve Yun posted:

https://x.com/inkblue01/status/1754948093190025249?s=46

"It�s possible that an at-home test could pick up some COVID proteins in the stool and come back positive, said Sellick. However, that doesn�t tell a person much about their current level of infectiousness."

Seems like nothing we do tells us much about our current level of infectiousness. :thunk:

# ? Feb 7, 2024 17:08

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

WrasslorMonkey posted:

(..)
Seems like nothing we do tells us much about our current level of infectiousness.

Just go to the office when sick and see how quickly it spreads. Bing bong etc.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 17:12

DominoKitten: Aug 7, 2012

Chronic wasting disease found in two deer in British Columbia, Canada. Tell me if this sounds familiar:

quote:

�We have been watching CWD spread province to province, state to state for at least 20 years, so this is terrible news for British Columbians,� said Jesse Zeman, Executive Director of the B.C. Wildlife Federation. �CWD is devastating to cervid populations. Continued vigilance and testing are key to organizing preventative measures.�

But Rowledge told the Tyee that governments have been watching the spread of the disease for decades and doing nothing. The fact that there still exist game ranches in Alberta and Saskatchewan actively spreading disease, he added, is scandalous.

# ? Feb 7, 2024 18:46

NeonPunk: Dec 21, 2020

God drat it. I hate Americans (and probably the rest of the world)

I was telling someone about just how terrible the measles are and they had a blank gaze and nodding politely as I explain how it can kill kids, cause deafness and blah blah. It was not until I said that those rash could leave permanent scars did they immediately turned on their attention and started asking more questions (about stuff that I already told you earlier if you've just paid attention).

Everybody is so vain af!

# ? Feb 7, 2024 19:15

deadwing: Mar 5, 2007

Pingui posted:

Cope weasel: "T-Cells will protect us!"

T-Cells:
"Bystander activated CD8+ T cells mediate neuropathology during viral infection via antigen-independent cytotoxicity"

News article on the matter:
"Immune response, not acute viral infections, responsible for neurological damage, McMaster researchers discover"

igg4 crew stays winning, max titers is the luckiest man on earth

# ? Feb 7, 2024 19:36

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

NeonPunk posted:

God drat it. I hate Americans (and probably the rest of the world)

I was telling someone about just how terrible the measles are and they had a blank gaze and nodding politely as I explain how it can kill kids, cause deafness and blah blah. It was not until I said that those rash could leave permanent scars did they immediately turned on their attention and started asking more questions (about stuff that I already told you earlier if you've just paid attention).

Everybody is so vain af!

It's the only reason we reacted appropriately to mpox

# ? Feb 7, 2024 19:47