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Robviously posted:Having just realized that Dark Elves get Chaos as Allies and now I'm giddy all over again. I loved the Cult of Slaanesh army list they put out for Storm of Chaos, time to rebuild a little bit of that. That was such a fantastic list, and AoS putting Morathi - head of Slaanesh's cult of pleasure - on Team Order was one of the things that made me realize they maybe didn't "get" Warhammer. No way to take daemons though, I don't think. Storm of Chaos was the best. All-Slayer all stars deserves to still be around.
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Feb 5, 2024 16:39
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moths posted:That was such a fantastic list, and AoS putting Morathi - head of Slaanesh's cult of pleasure - on Team Order was one of the things that made me realize they maybe didn't "get" Warhammer. Yeah honestly I think both AoS and Warhammer Fantasy are worse off being connected. AoS should have been allowed to go nuts with its weird grim version of He-man without having to be tied to Fantasy's characters.
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Feb 5, 2024 16:55
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moths posted:That was such a fantastic list, and AoS putting Morathi - head of Slaanesh's cult of pleasure - on Team Order was one of the things that made me realize they maybe didn't "get" Warhammer. While a slayer army was flavoursome, people found it very unfun to play against. And I think Morathi got pissy with Slaanesh after the whole "eh, I might as well eat the elves like my 40k counter-part" thing. Or the general destruction of the Old World got her thinking that such close allegiance with the Ruinous Powers was a little short-sighted.
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Feb 5, 2024 17:02
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LashLightning posted:While a slayer army was flavoursome, people found it very unfun to play against. So it was a typical dwarf army 
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Feb 5, 2024 17:11
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moths posted:That was such a fantastic list, and AoS putting Morathi - head of Slaanesh's cult of pleasure - on Team Order was one of the things that made me realize they maybe didn't "get" Warhammer. No they get it. Morathi is power hungry and will make any deals with any entities she can to further her power. However this backfired with Slaanesh as Slaanesh ate her. In AoS she managed to slither out of Slaanesh, permanently changed, and held a grudge. Her alliance with Sigmar in AoS is also barely holding as one of the things that capped the previous edition was her backstabbing him and conquering one of his major cities after using Chaos magic in a successful ploy for godhood.
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Feb 5, 2024 17:12
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Part of me wants to follow the lore of AoS but my eyes slide off the page every time I see words like aelves. If you wanna be distinct, I get it, but that just feels lazy.
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Feb 5, 2024 17:19
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Robviously posted:Part of me wants to follow the lore of AoS but my eyes slide off the page every time I see words like aelves. Well it’s pronounced the exact same, it’s just spelled a bit more like the Norse root word.
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Feb 5, 2024 17:24
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bloodborne bloodreaper bloodblooders ossuous boneskullers skullbone skeletoners gently caress I dunno, ogerous mawchewer chompchonkers it's jsut soooooo so so bad sorry to the sigmar likers but I too absolutely bounce off of the trappings of the setting before I can even begin to learn about its details
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Feb 5, 2024 18:24
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Now lets be fair, all of games-workshop new names sound stupid, it's not just Sigmar.
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Feb 5, 2024 18:25
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Eggplant Squire posted:Yeah honestly I think both AoS and Warhammer Fantasy are worse off being connected. AoS should have been allowed to go nuts with its weird grim version of He-man without having to be tied to Fantasy's characters.  It also sabotaged AoS from the start by making it mutually exclusive with the Old World. It never had a chance to stand on its own legs as a parallel high-fantasy deep-warp meta setting akin to Lovecraft's Dreamlands. It was "Nope that's all loving gone, ride a pretend pony or GTFO." There's actually a lot more they could have done with a parallel line. Lovecraft's ghouls were capable of tunneling between the Dreamlands and reality, which could easily map to the Skaven. Just the concept of the Realms of Magic is inherently more interesting than "the ruins of branding and repurposed IP." Then it's OK to just have Khorne dudes fighting in the spirit realm. Instead of the Blood-battles of the Bloody Bloodcaked bloodsmashers' bloodblades.
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Feb 5, 2024 18:39
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The reboot of fantasy into sigmar was a huge clusterfuck so it's saddled with a bunch of terrible decisions. But they're stuck with them unless they want to do another reboot. You can see that they were at least trying with it post launch though when it managed to go from  to 
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Feb 5, 2024 18:44
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It's still unbelievable that it took two years to establish whether or not the flagship faction had faces.
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Feb 5, 2024 18:48
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Lostconfused posted:Now lets be fair, all of games-workshop new names sound stupid, it's not just Sigmar. yes I started writing out a lot more  but actually this has already been hashed to death and this isn't the right thread for it anyway, I'll just leave it as my personal gut feels. The old world setting is interesting and compelling to me in a way that the age of sigmar setting is absolutely not, and somehow the naming is like a warning label on the content that translates as "not for you, Leperflesh." Like, literally emblematic of what's wrong, somehow. fortunately, I don't have to engage with AOS at all, I've got my tomb kings and can continue to pretend like the end times did not actually happen and are just some future fever-dream of a fever-struck historian scribbling away in a rickety old tower in Marienburg. A false prophesy. The old world is forever.
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Feb 5, 2024 18:55
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I've been playing AoS since about a year after 2nd edition dropped and, while I really enjoy the game itself, I know about zero about the lore. Contrast that with WFB/TOW where I can probably tell you the best place to get a meat pie in Nuln, weaponsmiths to avoid in Middenheim, and the best inn Altdorf despite not having actually played a squarebase game since before my 10 year old son was born.
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Feb 5, 2024 19:00
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The thing for me is that the old world is grounded in the way AoS isn't. It could just be a matter of time as the lore is fleshed out, but when I bought my first army book, 4th edition High Elves, I got a dozen+ pages detailing the magical realm of Ulthuan, and its 5000 year history, the different kingdoms, the politics of the island and its relationship to various other races. and then you buy, say, the dwarf book, and get that again but from the dwarf perspective and so on. Wheras with the Lumineth you get some maps and a general history but it's not really grounded in place in the same way. There's lots of names of places but no indication of what they are or what's going on aside from a city like Settler's Gain.
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Feb 5, 2024 20:18
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lore aside, AoS has some of the best minis GW has ever produced. And the new Cities Of Sigmar range are the kind of grungy gothic that was missing since the end of the Old World.
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Feb 5, 2024 20:46
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I think that's what had people disappointed with the reissue of old kits - there's nothing wrong with old models, but the current AoS line is phenomenal. IMO, this is actually a really exciting time for the game since there's literally no meta. Everybody's just throwing out craziness to see what sticks, and it feels like the game is balanced enough to handle it all. I've been playing around with Ghoul lists and available models landed on a Striogi King, 3x ten-ghoul packs, 2x Crypt Horror units, and an unridden Terrorgheist at 1000 points. Will it be fun? Awful? Who knows! The only way to find out is to play it. It also looks like I was wrong about Skirmish being optional - it says they may adopt a Skirmish formation, but unless the unit also has close or open order, that's the only formation they may adopt. Baby steps. Also I tried out a scheme on this month's free mini:  The shoulder seam looks like a weird jawline, I need to putty that on future guys.
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Feb 5, 2024 21:05
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moths posted:I think that's what had people disappointed with the reissue of old kits - there's nothing wrong with old models, but the current AoS line is phenomenal. This. There are absolutely nothing in the AoS lore that makes me a tiny bit interested (which is amazing, given that they have like, flying turtles and stuff), but the goblins for AoS are pretty universally really nice.
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Feb 5, 2024 22:04
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AoS's got this weird thing going on where I dearly miss the Old World protagonist factions and would take the Reikland milieu over AoS any day but also almost every other faction has so much more going on in AoS than they ever had in WHFB.
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Feb 5, 2024 22:19
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The worst thing about playing Soulblight Gravelords is saying the phrase 'Soulblight Gravelords'
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Feb 5, 2024 22:25
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What about the guy talking in a dramatic count accent?
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Feb 5, 2024 22:28
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Robviously posted:Part of me wants to follow the lore of AoS but my eyes slide off the page every time I see words like aelves. I read through all the end times stuff on ham vault, it was a slog by the end but I got there with a lot of eye rolling. I couldn't get through any aos book I tried. Anyhow, I'm mad they haven't put any of the old whfb books up on the vault.
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Feb 5, 2024 22:48
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My biggest gripe about AoS was that it felt like they were taking WHFB, a game I spent almost a decade playing, and were turning it into fantasy 40k. If I wanted to play 40k, I'd play 40k. 2 years of faceless protagonists and a story that made no sense didn't help. I absolutely get wanting to get away from stuff you can't copyright but ffs how do Dwarves get a cool name like Duardin and Elves just get an A stuck to the front of it. They just giving themselves an A for aeffort?
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Feb 5, 2024 23:49
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moths posted:It's still unbelievable that it took two years to establish whether or not the flagship faction had faces. I read the AoS launch novella and the Stormcast came across as basically old school Necrons. The emotionless, faceless robot men thing, back before the Necrons were rebooted into Space Tomb Kings.
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Feb 6, 2024 00:09
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I assume it was the exact same story for both with games-workshop launching a new army without any clear idea of what they were supposed to be until much later.
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Feb 6, 2024 00:25
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Eediot Jedi posted:
Cubicle7 have put them up for time to time on humble bundle. I got the whole set of first and second edition books for about AUD50. They did it for 40k too, and i bought them because it was just such crazy value, even though I don’t have much interest. Just part of my charity work that I don’t like to talk about.
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Feb 6, 2024 07:41
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Lostconfused posted:I assume it was the exact same story for both with games-workshop launching a new army without any clear idea of what they were supposed to be until much later. We're veering wildly off topic but Arbitor Ian has a good video on the multiple redesigns of the Necrons which IMO puts the Stormcasts' development in context and reframes it as business as usual for GW rather than an abberation.
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Feb 6, 2024 08:15
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I rather like the AOS lore in its current state. It certainly took its time to become an interesting series of realms and ideas for my group's narrative games. The End Times and the abyssal launch did it no favors either. I like the creative space I get to craft my own faction or army and come up with fun reasons for various armies to fight. Playing Skaven, I'm always thrilled to suddenly show up to dunk on Nagash's minions or have my own plans thwarted by Stormcast nonsense. I know it sucks to lose your army in a transition, but Brettonia nights turning into the Flesheater Courts is a cool lore piece. My biggest issue with the Old World is how constrained it feels to me. Everything is mapped out and all the subfactions have great lore, but never a ton of space to make your own. The lore never seemed to really move in any direction since the world felt like a bunch of apocalypses all stacked on top each other. This might be because I got into Fantasy very late with 7th edition, and only had the army ready for 8th at that. The few times I tried to learn and play in 8th were not fun, but that was more of a community issue. Once second edition of AoS came out, the rules and the models all came together into easily my favorite Warhammer game. So my attachment to The Old World is limited. Still, I think there is good stuff in AoS and I think it has become something more interesting than it started as.
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Feb 7, 2024 01:09
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I like both.
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Feb 7, 2024 02:02
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Crazy Ferret posted:My biggest issue with the Old World is how constrained it feels to me. Everything is mapped out and all the subfactions have great lore, but never a ton of space to make your own. The lore never seemed to really move in any direction since the world felt like a bunch of apocalypses all stacked on top each other. there were designated loving-around areas like the border princes and the other side of the big mountain range to the east, but i get this. WHFB always had a millenarian vibe, where everything is building up to the grand battle to decide the fate of the world (which, presumably, is the match you are playing). the timeline rarely advanced, but GW constantly added new things that happened last week. who knows what they'll do with TOW.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:27
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Cease to Hope posted:there were designated loving-around areas like the border princes and the other side of the big mountain range to the east, but i get this. WHFB always had a millenarian vibe, where everything is building up to the grand battle to decide the fate of the world (which, presumably, is the match you are playing). the timeline rarely advanced, but GW constantly added new things that happened last week. Overall this was a thing that came along later on, same with 40K. Up to, say, 4th and 5th editions of WHFB, there was IMHO much less focus on the "main plotline characters" of GW, or the main plot at all, and more room for players to carve out their own piece of the fantasy. Hell, the "World Map" when I got into WHFB had most of the bits missing, which was not a bad thing.What's beyond the wastes where the Chaos Dwarves live? Who knows! Stories would generally be smaller - for example, one of the highlights of the 4th edition era O&G was the battles around Karak Eight Peaks, a regional big deal but hardly The End Times. The Dark Elves had their shenanigans of infighting and pirating but nobody was conquering the entire world, etc. Same with Rogue Trader and 2nd edition 40K - White Dwarf battle reports would often be about the authors coming up with their own characters that fought more low-stake events. Whenever I see something about 40K now, it seems like there are fifty galaxy-ending plotline churning along constantly, each one wrestling to be more epic than the other. Looking back, you could start to see this development in the mass player events like Storm of Chaos and the Cadia event, when stakes suddenly needed to be higher and higher, and the issue that you could also not resolve those events as they would gently caress up your setting (which is why both had their results fudged by GW). If you came into WHFB in 7th or 8th ed, the game was already way into that threadmill. I think the Old World reboot at an even earlier age, to distance it further from the End Times, is a good idea for this reason as well. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Feb 7, 2024 |
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Feb 7, 2024 07:42
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Absolutely agreed; that sense of human scale is why I've kind of gone off 40k but found my love for Warhammer Fantasy again. I did get into the setting through the TTRPG, so that colors my experiences, but the Old World feels like a place where people live and have people concerns that periodically get interrupted by a big battle with dragons and wizards in it. In 40k, There Is Only War, where civilian life exists, its function is to feed the war machine, and it's constantly reinforced that humanity has sacrificed everything worthwhile about being human for the sake of survival. AoS lore has zero interest in daily life at all and you just have no idea what it's like to live there as a non-soldier. In Fantasy though, the "good" and "neutral" factions generally fight so that they can do other things like farm and gently caress and make art. It's a lot more grounded and easier to give a poo poo about. Yeah I'm an Empire player how could you tell
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Feb 7, 2024 08:45
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Even the straight up evil factions existed in a way that made some sense. The Marauder tribes of the North were Chaos prone because they lived near the Even the Vampire Counts were a nod to medieval feudalism, where the peasants had bigger concerns than affairs of state. You could easily imagine life existing in these places because, largely, it already had in the real world. Chaos and Orcs were the exception, but fantasy literature is full of examples of despoiler nations.
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Feb 7, 2024 10:45
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Cease to Hope posted:there were designated loving-around areas like the border princes and the other side of the big mountain range to the east, but i get this. WHFB always had a millenarian vibe, where everything is building up to the grand battle to decide the fate of the world (which, presumably, is the match you are playing). the timeline rarely advanced, but GW constantly added new things that happened last week. I’m hoping it being in the “past” means they’ll have a story/timeline going, hopefully involving bringing in Kislev and Cathay and roping in more legacy armies. And hopefully not featuring tons of named characters. I like 40k and AoS but I don’t like how common the most important people in the universe are. I got in in elementary school when special characters were overcoster gimmicks instead of showing up in most lists for a lot of factions. Having a custom guy and inventing their backstory was half the fun. I’m hoping the reluctance to do loads of brand new sculpts will means there will be more reliance on regular characters instead of Malekith and the Emperor and the Everchosen in every army Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Feb 7, 2024 |
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Feb 7, 2024 12:48
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All these rules posts and theory crafting really make me wish GW would send my preorder to my LGS already 
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Feb 7, 2024 13:20
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3 Action Economist posted:All these rules posts and theory crafting really make me wish GW would send my preorder to my LGS already Are you in NA/is their distribution that hosed from winter? We got both starters already in Central Asia by way of the UAE
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Feb 7, 2024 14:22
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North America got the starter boxes, but games-workshop apparently decided not to give us any rule books.
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Feb 7, 2024 14:42
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m hoping it being in the “past” means they’ll have a story/timeline going, hopefully involving bringing in Kislev and Cathay and roping in more legacy armies. I'm liking the little bits of lore I've been seeing so far, like Kislev, the not-Russia equivalent that only has 3 cities in the usual setting, actually spreading across much of not-Asia in the old world so it actually feels like a sprawling empire. Of course, that won't last but it's the journey, not the destination...
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Feb 7, 2024 15:00
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lilljonas posted:Overall this was a thing that came along later on, same with 40K. Up to, say, 4th and 5th editions of WHFB, there was IMHO much less focus on the "main plotline characters" of GW, or the main plot at all, and more room for players to carve out their own piece of the fantasy. Some of this depended on the army books you had, I suppose. Even the earliest undead books emphasized that Nagash and the von Carlsteins are coming back and there'll be hell to pay. Archaon was 5th edition. The High/Dark Elf struggle was basically fully formed in 5th. Those gave it a millenarian vibe to me, even before Storm of Chaos, Mordheim, Belakor, Grimgor, etc. Those are some of the retconned-to-be-last-week things I was talking about.
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Feb 7, 2024 15:08
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Lostconfused posted:North America got the starter boxes, but games-workshop apparently decided not to give us any rule books. Weird; our LGSs have stacks of all the books.
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Feb 7, 2024 15:19
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