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I think a lot would be gained by reducing the amount of time people spend working. Give people more free time. Just imagine the savings from driving less to work every week.
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Feb 9, 2024 08:18
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Didn't Covid travel restrictions settle that once and for all that while it would be good the effect is marginal. Edit: like there's a minimum amount of traffic to sustain life and the savings and climate change impact aren't good enough for everybody to start working from home except doctors nurses firefighters and store clerks. Kwyndig fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Feb 9, 2024 |
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Feb 9, 2024 08:46
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I've never heard of anything like that, or that covid restrictions were similar enough to that to be able to make such a comparison. I personally worked every day during covid, commuting. It was a boom time for us and the construction business.
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Feb 9, 2024 08:49
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 April 4, 2020
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Feb 9, 2024 09:03
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Kwyndig posted:Didn't Covid travel restrictions settle that once and for all that while it would be good the effect is marginal. I'm not talking about working from home, but say a 3 day work week instead of the typical 5.
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Feb 9, 2024 09:42
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Kwyndig posted:Didn't Covid travel restrictions settle that once and for all that while it would be good the effect is marginal. Entire cities didn't have smog for the first time in decades
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Feb 9, 2024 10:02
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But also planes flew in circles totally empty to preserve their airport slots There is a limit to what even universal collective action can do in the face of capital
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Feb 9, 2024 10:11
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His Divine Shadow posted:I'm not talking about working from home, but say a 3 day work week instead of the typical 5. Haha, that's never going to happen. Blood was shed to get the five day work week. We're more likely to backslide and lose Saturday in the name of productivity.
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Feb 9, 2024 10:21
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Main Paineframe posted:Systemic measures still require people to accept a lower standard of living! i dont think most people do, actually. for example you could dramatically cut emissions by implementing UBI so fewer people needed to commute for work. most people do not own private jets and yachts or deeply care that their local power plant uses coal and natural gas rather than wind, solar or nuclear, or that products they buy come in single use plastic. in fact the only area i see necessary for addressing climate change that would negatively impact how most people like to live is that people need to eat less meat.
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Feb 9, 2024 13:11
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His Divine Shadow posted:I think a lot would be gained by reducing the amount of time people spend working. Give people more free time. Just imagine the savings from driving less to work every week. That's one way to spin tech layoffs
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Feb 9, 2024 13:41
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I don’t even know what I’d do with 5 days off every week to be honest. Not in a “I live to work and so I must work” sense but in a “I’d be bored out of my loving mind” sense.
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Feb 9, 2024 13:47
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You'd get a second job, or take up a hobby, both of those would serve to fill some of the time. Edit: or you'd develop crippling insomnia that kills your nights and your days because you're just so goddamn tired. That one might be just me
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Feb 9, 2024 13:56
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I think people with tech jobs or other work-from-home jobs only know other people with similar jobs and vastly overestimate how much crucial labor can be done remotely.
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Feb 9, 2024 13:59
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Stexils posted:i dont think most people do, actually. for example you could dramatically cut emissions by implementing UBI so fewer people needed to commute for work. most people do not own private jets and yachts or deeply care that their local power plant uses coal and natural gas rather than wind, solar or nuclear, or that products they buy come in single use plastic. in fact the only area i see necessary for addressing climate change that would negatively impact how most people like to live is that people need to eat less meat. "implementing UBI will drastically cut emissions" seems like a very strong statement without much backing it
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Feb 9, 2024 14:04
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Andrast posted:"implementing UBI will drastically cut emissions" seems like a very strong statement without much backing it true. its about as strong and unevidenced as statement as 'sustainability means everyone needs to accept a lower standard of living'.
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Feb 9, 2024 14:08
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I already get my rollos in a big gooey pile what more can I do?
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Feb 9, 2024 14:14
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Boris Galerkin posted:I don’t even know what I’d do with 5 days off every week to be honest. Not in a “I live to work and so I must work” sense but in a “I’d be bored out of my loving mind” sense. ive thought about the concept of If i had a ton of extra days off what would i do, And i've come to the conclusion that yes, id be bored out of my mind, *at first* because im exhausted by constantly having to drive to and from work and having no free time, that i cant conceptualize that i'd have the energy to do more things, even with more time. But after a week or 2, that would fade and i'd start picking up some of the hobbies i did for a weekend then dropped.
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Feb 9, 2024 14:23
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Boris Galerkin posted:I don’t even know what I’d do with 5 days off every week to be honest. Not in a “I live to work and so I must work” sense but in a “I’d be bored out of my loving mind” sense. Being bored is good
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Feb 9, 2024 14:37
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Very few people with healthy lives are actually bored out of their mind when they take extended time off work. Its a bit of a line used to keep people in work - "what else would you do with your time if you weren't working? You'd just waste it. Better to stay in the 9-5". I was on a couple months of gardening leave between jobs recently and it was utterly fantastic - its very easy to fill your time with a combination of daily exercise, quality time with your partner, visiting family, hanging out with friends, reading, dog walking, household chores/DIY etc. And I don't even have kids, with them you'd have even more to do. I've had multiple friends have similar experiences, too. I'd strongly suspect the only people who actually go crazy with boredom are those who have no lives outside of work, they've become institutionalised into having no hobbies/interests/relationships.
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Feb 9, 2024 14:41
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Blut posted:I've had multiple friends have similar experiences, too. I'd strongly suspect the only people who actually go crazy with boredom are those who have no lives outside of work, they've become institutionalised into having no hobbies/interests/relationships. Agreed. If the idea of having to fill time without having to work is terrifying to you that should be a strong motivator to work on this aspect of yourself. When my wife and I had a few weeks of downtime at the start of COVID there was a pretty extreme difference in our attitudes with me having a pile of hobbies to dig into and her without any. She has since developed an interest in gardening, crafting, and other things but it was a big wake-up call. Service to others counts, too.
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Feb 9, 2024 14:48
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Still, I maintain some boredom is actually good. I'm furloughed atm so I got 4-5 day weekends (and a pay cut), but I still got plenty to do at home and with the kids and partner. There's been no real problem filling time, not that I want to fill all my time. But boy it sure is easy to.
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Feb 9, 2024 14:52
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Blut posted:Very few people with healthy lives are actually bored out of their mind when they take extended time off work. Its a bit of a line used to keep people in work - "what else would you do with your time if you weren't working? You'd just waste it. Better to stay in the 9-5". I think there’s a difference between taking a leave to do stuff you have planned to do and being told “you only work 3 days now, enjoy 5 days off every week for the rest of your life.”
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Feb 9, 2024 14:54
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Yes thank you I will!
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Feb 9, 2024 14:59
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Funny how there's "work" and then there's "laboring to achieve something" (that doesn't make anybody money). Gardening is a supreme example. Its work, and doing it by choice can be fulfilling and satisfying despite being uncomfortable dirty and difficult sometimes. Yet some people do it ten hours a day so they can pay their rent. People fall back to "human nature" in service of all sorts of arguments... I say humans want to labor to achieve something. We want to burn our energy, interact with our world. We've just taken away that opportunity for many, and then forced them into "go move bullshit around to enrich the wealthy if you want to exist".
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Feb 9, 2024 15:00
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Stexils posted:scolding people for wastefulness or saying people need to accept lower quality standard of living is and has always been nothing but pointless virtue signaling. nations consist of hundreds of millions of people, any move toward sustainability has to be systemic. Most of the progress we have made on climate change had been through individual initiatives adding up. It's not nearly enough but the idea that it does nothing is just ignoring the progress of green products and technology from the last 30 years. And I'm gonna scold wasteful cunts all I like, planet will still burn but it makes me feel a tiny bit less helpless.
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Feb 9, 2024 15:04
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His Divine Shadow posted:Still, I maintain some boredom is actually good. agreed on being bored sometimes, i can count on one hand the times in the last couple years i could just lay be bored and not feel stressed about not doing things i should be doing. nothing beats laying on the couch just Staring at the ceiling bored out of my mind, but relaxed.
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Feb 9, 2024 15:16
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In healthier, tribal societies regular people make art when there's no more work to be done. It was depressing seeing people going "hah I'm doing crafts like an idiot to cope with the boredom???" during lockdowns, capitalist conditioning is hard to override
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Feb 9, 2024 15:39
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BRJurgis posted:Funny how there's "work" and then there's "laboring to achieve something" (that doesn't make anybody money). Speak for yourself, the happiest times in my adult life were when I was unemployed, not actively searching for work, and just being able to spend hours and hours doing absolutely nothing, just letting time pass in blissful silence. If I had had the option, I'd absolutely use UBI to never do a single useful thing for the rest of my life. I firmly believe being able to sleep as much and as long as you like to be life's greatest luxury.
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Feb 9, 2024 16:04
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Go become a monk and live your best life.
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Feb 9, 2024 16:21
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Boris Galerkin posted:I don’t even know what I’d do with 5 days off every week to be honest. Not in a “I live to work and so I must work” sense but in a “I’d be bored out of my loving mind” sense. 5 days off every week means even more time for people to never clear out their backlog of unplayed games in Steam.  But the serious answer is that people would have a lot more free time for hobbies and to just do whatever they wanted without having to spend decades being a wage slave. You would very quickly find things to do that fills that time that you wouldn't have thought of otherwise. I've watched a family member do the same thing, when he retired he figured he'd get bored and go back to work within a few years but in reality he's found no shortage of poo poo to do (and bad TV to kick back and watch) so he's still pretty busy but now it's doing stuff around the house or golfing or other hobbies rather than working 40+ hours a week until he dies. When I was between jobs for several months I had no problem finding things to do both on my own and with friends and family. The idea that we need to keep a 9-5 40 hour work week is bullshit. Tiny Timbs posted:She has since developed an interest in gardening, crafting, and other things but it was a big wake-up call. This is why when COVID hit there were so many people posting about making bread and doing a bunch of other stuff. Turns out that millions of people who knew nothing but the grind suddenly realized with free time there was a bunch of stuff they wanted to try and enjoyed it. Which, along with the masses realizing WFH is viable for a ton of jobs and that their labor is more valuable than what they were getting, has been a big headache for the capital class who have been working to bring back the Gilded Age. withoutclass posted:Go become a monk and live your best life. I'm not sure you know what a monk's lifestyle is like if you think it's just sitting around with tons of free time.
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Feb 9, 2024 16:23
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Aren't medieval monks infamous for copying texts and adding margin comments about how much they hate the abbot for making them do all this work? Monks were extremely employed, historically. Not sure about modern day monks.
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Feb 9, 2024 16:26
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The only reason we still have many of the texts that have survived from the classical era is that they were repeatedly copied by monks, because even the best kept books or scrolls would be falling apart after several centuries (at least in moist climates). It was an extremely laborious process.
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Feb 9, 2024 16:56
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Boris Galerkin posted:I don’t even know what I’d do with 5 days off every week to be honest. Not in a “I live to work and so I must work” sense but in a “I’d be bored out of my loving mind” sense. This is probably one of the saddest things I've read on these forums.
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Feb 9, 2024 17:11
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There is so much to see and do in this world I just don't understand the mindset of needing a 9-5 job or whatever to define your life. If you need the structure or whatever than find a place to volunteer, there's always someone needing help.
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Feb 9, 2024 17:12
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Main Paineframe posted:Systemic measures still require people to accept a lower standard of living! More resource use != better standard of living. People could live healthier, happier, more fulfilling lives with far smaller carbon footprints if we invested in the right infrastructure and cultivated healthy mindsets.
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Feb 9, 2024 17:26
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Boris Galerkin posted:I think there’s a difference between taking a leave to do stuff you have planned to do and being told “you only work 3 days now, enjoy 5 days off every week for the rest of your life.” I didn't take a leave to do stuff I had planned to do. If I'd said I used the leave to go on a 3 month long holiday, or build a car or some other time intensive specific project, that would apply, but thats not what I listed. All of those activities I listed are daily things to do, that I could/would like to do daily for the rest of my life. And they're only just my own interests - theres no parenting, or volunteering, any one of loads of other worthwhile activities that people can and do partake in when they're not working. I honestly can't fathom how someone would struggle to enjoy a life that had 5 days off every week, thats tragic. Theres so much living out there to enjoy.
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Feb 9, 2024 17:29
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I don't think I'm wired to understand people bragging about how they can stare at a wall and be at peace like they're Ron Desantis tucking themselves away into a closet when they're off duty, much less criticizing other people for occupying themselves like it's some plight of modern society. Even monks glorify god or do purposeful meditation or whatever.
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Feb 9, 2024 17:49
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What are your opinions on housecats who just chill in sunbeams all day
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Feb 9, 2024 17:57
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feedmyleg posted:What are your opinions on housecats who just chill in sunbeams all day Lazy. Get a job. You have to act as you would prefer all of society to act. If everyone just laid in a sunbeam and ruined table legs, then society would collapse. That is what George R.R. Martin did and why we are never getting an ending to A Song of Ice and Fire.
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Feb 9, 2024 17:59
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I figure they're plotting
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Feb 9, 2024 18:07
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