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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There has never been a time when Biden was a political candidate that he wasn't also saying stupid poo poo on the regular. He's been known as a gaffe and flub machine for decades. That's right, he's an enormous idiot and has been one forever (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 10, 2024 10:12
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Edward Mass posted:The House was controlled by the Democrats in 2020, so Biden would’ve won on the tiebreaker. Other than that, fine work. poo poo I remember reading that whatever the mechanism was, it would've worked in Trump's favor, but not the exact details. Seems like it's... quite a system  quote:If neither candidate gets a majority of the 538 electoral votes, the election for President is decided in the House of Representatives, with each state delegation having one vote. A majority of states (26) is needed to win. Senators would elect the Vice-President, with each Senator having a vote. A majority of Senators (51) is needed to win.
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Feb 10, 2024 10:23
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Tatsuta Age posted:it was one hell of a stutter 2 days ago when he name-dropped the French leader who died 25 years ago too, natch I do poo poo like this and I’m not even 30.
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Feb 10, 2024 11:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I do poo poo like this and I’m not even 30. You should probably get that checked out
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Feb 10, 2024 14:19
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:You should probably get that checked out Maybe it's a stutter. To me, as someone who's known men of his age who were dealing with actual neurological conditions and men of his age who were just generally slowing down and getting foggier, Biden's obviously in the second group. Have any stories indicated that Biden is struggling to do the behind-the-scenes work or is it just a decline in his capacity to go off-script? Personally I would not mind at all if, a la Wilson or Reagan, Biden became a figurehead whose administration was guided by the people around him. At every point where Biden diverges from the median DNC bureaucrat, as far as I know, it's for the worse (e.g., personal opposition to marijuana legalization, much less willing to even criticize Israel) Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 14:46
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Civilized Fishbot posted:To me, as someone who's known men of his age who were dealing with actual neurological conditions and men of his age who were just generally slowing down and getting foggier, Biden's obviously in the second group. Of course verbal fluency is a measure of cognition and history of gaffs aside, Biden’s presentation over the past four years is concerning. Biden’s (handlers are) smart enough not to come out and state he went 0/5 on delayed recall like Trump did, but it just how Biden acts when he’s speaking extemporaneously is obviously not just “slowing down.” And the whole stutter thing has never been very convincing to me. This only became an issue during Iowa where he was very clearly struggling to keep it together. The stutter was never a problem when he was burying Paul Ryan on live television. Ot was never mentioned during the other two times he ran for president. Biden can’t complete sentences later in the day and all of a sudden it’s a stutter.
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Feb 10, 2024 14:55
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FizFashizzle posted:Of course verbal fluency is a measure of cognition and history of gaffs aside, Biden’s presentation over the past four years is concerning. Biden’s (handlers are) smart enough not to come out and state he went 0/5 on delayed recall like Trump did, but it just how Biden acts when he’s speaking extemporaneously is obviously not just “slowing down.” He's had a stutter all his life and it predated all of that. The issue isn't that he's suddenly obviously stuttering, but the effort it takes to not stutter means you say the wrong word, or it comes out sounding weird. For example, I tend to substitute the wrong word. Sometimes it is something I am looking at, or am thinking. My mind latches onto something close to what I am talking about, and that comes out instead. I sometimes say 'fay' instead of 'say', so you'll hear me go "I fay... I mean, I say" and stuff like that. And yes, being tired makes it more difficult to keep under control. I've been like that since I was a child, and it is not an indication of cognitive decline.
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Feb 10, 2024 15:17
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FizFashizzle posted:Of course verbal fluency is a measure of cognition and history of gaffs aside, Biden’s presentation over the past four years is concerning. Biden’s (handlers are) smart enough not to come out and state he went 0/5 on delayed recall like Trump did, but it just how Biden acts when he’s speaking extemporaneously is obviously not just “slowing down.” The mechanism behind stuttering is still a matter of investigation, but it seems to be related strongly with executive function. Which gets weaker with age, stress and how tired you are. You basically just went “Hey if this is a stutter why is it behaving exactly like a stutter would”.
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Feb 10, 2024 15:31
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^^ no I basically went “this looks just like dementia in a man in his eighties who’s had multiple CVAs and claiming “well actually it’s a stutter we’ve never mentioned he had” is very suspect. Kchama posted:He's had a stutter all his life and it predated all of that. The issue isn't that he's suddenly obviously stuttering, but the effort it takes to not stutter means you say the wrong word, or it comes out sounding weird. For example, I tend to substitute the wrong word. Sometimes it is something I am looking at, or am thinking. My mind latches onto something close to what I am talking about, and that comes out instead. I sometimes say 'fay' instead of 'say', so you'll hear me go "I fay... I mean, I say" and stuff like that. And yes, being tired makes it more difficult to keep under control. I've been like that since I was a child, and it is not an indication of cognitive decline. There’s never been a mention of him having a stutter. There’s no Google results for this from before 2020. It’s about and well sourced and the random black guy who’s legs he feeled up when he was working and a life guard. And fwiw Biden himself said the “stutter” isn’t a problem with his speech. quote:“I don't think of myself as continuing to stutter. ... That doesn't cross my mind that I'm stuttering,” Biden said. “Look, the mistakes I make are mistakes. And some people think I still stutter. I don't think of myself that way.” https://www.axios.com/2019/12/08/joe-biden-stuttering-verbal-stumbles I don’t mean to discount your own lived experiences and I’m not a speech pathologist but the stutter excuse never cut mustard for me. Just based on what we see of him it’s atleast MCI with a mild cognitive communication deficit. FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 15:33
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FizFashizzle posted:Of course verbal fluency is a measure of cognition Is it?
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Feb 10, 2024 15:49
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Riptor posted:Is it? Not even a little bit. This is dumb and someone not knowing much about stutters but deciding they can diagnose them.
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Feb 10, 2024 15:54
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Riptor posted:Is it? Literally part of the moca. Certain dementias present with communication deficits early. Primary progressive aphasia (what Bruce Willis has) presents very early with inability to make or understand speech. Classic Alzheimer’s presents early on with inability to recall names and other word finding difficulty, due to asymmetric atrohpy of the hippocampi Vascular dementia (or small vessel disease depending if you’re in neuro or psych) can present in any which way depending on where the infarcts are located. Not uncommon at all to have cognitive deficits. Speech deficits can be: Receptive - don’t understand speech Expressive - can’t make it. This can be due to infarcts anywhere in the brain, or in specific language centers. Sometimes patients can’t make words or sometimes they can’t use the right word. There are dozens of modifiers for speech patterns when you’re diagnosing communication deficits.
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Feb 10, 2024 15:54
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FizFashizzle posted:Literally part of the moca. You are MASSIVELY out over your skis, dude. You just switched from talking about speech fluency to talking about aphasia as if those were directly related topics. There aren't unitary causal mechanisms behind linguistic performance metrics. I'm sure you're very knowledgable about your own thing, but you don't know neurolinguistics. Hell, I don't know neurolinguistics that well but I at least studied it and this basic day 1 poo poo you're loving up.
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Feb 10, 2024 15:58
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Xiahou Dun posted:You are MASSIVELY out over your skis, dude. Those were separate thoughts, and I'm just pointing stuff out out now. I'm not saying Biden has aphasia, but in regards to that poster's question, how do you think aphasia in the setting of dementia initially presents? But you're not addressing my main point, which is that attributing this to a stutter that was never mentioned before 2020 is very convenient and not at all convincing unless you want it Xiahou Dun posted:Not even a little bit. Fluency is LITERALLY its own test on the most commonly used screening test for dementia in Neurology. It's also part of the MMSE or BIMS which are used more in psych.  There's also several different tests to measure speech and fluency included in neurocognitive exams, but they're different based on the training of the person administering them, what state boards want, and they change all the time based on the suggestions of the ANA.
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Feb 10, 2024 16:02
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FizFashizzle posted:There’s never been a mention of him having a stutter. There’s no Google results for this from before 2020. It’s about and well sourced and the random black guy who’s legs he feeled up when he was working and a life guard. And fwiw Biden himself said the “stutter” isn’t a problem with his speech. clearly you didn't Google very hard because it's a very commonly known fact about Joe Biden. This article from 2007 literally starts with the sentence "Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) stuttered badly as a child"
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Feb 10, 2024 16:04
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Acebuckeye13 posted:clearly you didn't Google very hard because it's a very commonly known fact about Joe Biden. This article from 2007 literally starts with the sentence "Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) stuttered badly as a child" Well gently caress me id never seen that.
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Feb 10, 2024 16:06
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The first thing I was told about Joe Biden was that it was OK, the new vice president also stutters.
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Feb 10, 2024 16:07
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FizFashizzle posted:Well gently caress me id never seen that. You are also glossing over that there are many distinct kinds of aphasia and most of them aren't caused by general cognitive decline. Speech problems can be a symptom of cognitive decline, yes, but most speech problems aren't. Like how Wernicke's aphasia specifically targets language comprehension and not much else. This is basic linguistics 101 poo poo and why neurolinguistics as a field exists. Biden's gaffes are textbook stuttering and you just did a big thing because you don't know how stutters work while someone with one (KChama) and someone who actually has studied this a lot (me) were telling you were you wrong and should read.
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Feb 10, 2024 16:16
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How do the two life threatening brain aneurysms Biden suffered in 1988 play into this
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Feb 10, 2024 16:18
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FizFashizzle posted:Well gently caress me id never seen that. It's because nobody really cared about his stutter until the "Biden is too old" stuff started to rear his head. When he was younger, it was all about "gaffe machine Biden", no one really gave a poo poo about the stutter specifically. However, most voters don't know enough about him to know he has a stutter, nor do they know enough about stutters to know that stuttering can cause things like that. It doesn't really matter what he said at this press conference, it's not going to hurt him. It's February, nobody's paying attention. But if he does a Mexico/Egypt mixup on camera in October, that's gonna be big trouble.
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Feb 10, 2024 16:25
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:How do the two life threatening brain aneurysms Biden suffered in 1988 play into this Increased risk of CVA happening in the future, though long enough out that risk starts to decline. possible change in the brain parenchyma that can be exacerbated during atrophy that occurs normally secondary to aging. Increased risk of seizure. Xiahou Dun posted:You are also glossing over that there are many distinct kinds of aphasia and most of them aren't caused by general cognitive decline. Speech problems can be a symptom of cognitive decline, yes, but most speech problems aren't. Like how Wernicke's aphasia specifically targets language comprehension and not much else. This is basic linguistics 101 poo poo and why neurolinguistics as a field exists. I am clearly talking about symptom presentation in a politician who has had a noticeable decline in language ability and processing speed. I am freely admitting i hadn’t known the stutter was brought up in 2007 and am owning that. quote:Biden's gaffes are textbook stuttering and you just did a big thing because you don't know how stutters work while someone with one (KChama) and someone who actually has studied this a lot (me) were telling you were you wrong and should read. I’ve said nothing about the neuro linguistic etiology of a stutter and have flatly said I am not an ST. You are conflating me responding to a poster asking if fluency is a part of a cognitive exam (which it is as evidenced above) and just talking about other things as if I’m saying Biden has all of those. He does not. Maybe you and I are taking past one another. FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 16:28
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Main Paineframe posted:It's because nobody really cared about his stutter until the "Biden is too old" stuff started to rear his head. When he was younger, it was all about "gaffe machine Biden", no one really gave a poo poo about the stutter specifically. Yeah, this is basically it. The quote posted about Biden saying he doesn't think he has a stutter is literally true. He doesn't stutter anymore because of his control. With the type of stutter I have, talking feels natural until suddenly it isn't and I've said something odd or I'm having to slam my mouth shut for a couple of moments to reboot my mouth. Thankfully, I've avoided saying stuff TOO embarrassing too much. The worst was probably the time I was gonna challenge a guy to a fighting game at the arcade, and "Wanna fight?" came out as "Wanna gently caress?" He replied "Yeah, but later." At least I got revenge in the actual game.
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Feb 10, 2024 16:33
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FizFashizzle posted:Increased risk of CVA happening in the future, though long enough out that risk starts to decline. No, you are confounding symptoms (disfluency) with causes. There are tests for cognitive decline that use language as a diagnostic, yes, but there are also many causes of speech performance errors that aren't from general cognitive decline, including most kinds of aphasia. If you want to take this to the linguistics thread, we can. In the interim you are wildly uninformed on the topic. You admit you don't know what you're talking about. Stop.
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Feb 10, 2024 16:35
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Xiahou Dun posted:No, you are confounding symptoms (disfluency) with causes. There are tests for cognitive decline that use language as a diagnostic, yes,.[/i] This was the point I was trying to make and if I was not clear I apologize.
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Feb 10, 2024 16:41
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FizFashizzle posted:Increased risk of CVA happening in the future, though long enough out that risk starts to decline. Thanks, was genuinely curious about this.
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Feb 10, 2024 16:44
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FizFashizzle posted:This was the point I was trying to make and if I was not clear I apologize. Yes, and vision charts are used to diagnose eyesight but there is still a distinction between different kinds of blindness. It was a very silly and irrelevant point if you know the topic. As I kept saying. Edit : Sorry if I'm coming off harsh but "Is this guy really disabled, I a person who knows nothing about the topic shall decide" is a SUPER hosed UP thing to do. And I'm not trying to make a big deal but my "I'm not an expert" is "I only took some grad classes on this and helped out in a lab for a couple of years, it wasn't my speciality". This was a very lovely conversation and you should have dropped it earlier. Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 16:45
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Kchama posted:Yeah, this is basically it. The quote posted about Biden saying he doesn't think he has a stutter is literally true. He doesn't stutter anymore because of his control. With the type of stutter I have, talking feels natural until suddenly it isn't and I've said something odd or I'm having to slam my mouth shut for a couple of moments to reboot my mouth. Well did you gently caress after???
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Feb 10, 2024 16:49
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USCE 2024: “Wanna fight?" came out as "Wanna gently caress?"
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Feb 10, 2024 16:52
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FizFashizzle posted:Literally part of the moca. What you're quoting is arguing that someone with dementia presents with speech problems. But your original argument is that someone with speech problems is likely to have dementia which are very different things
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Feb 10, 2024 16:53
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FizFashizzle posted:
This is trivially false and easily checked. Whoever told you that is filling your brain with garbage, stop listening to them. quote:President Biden spoke about how difficult it was to overcome his stutter in a 2010 appearance on ABC's The View. In 2011, he wrote an essay for People Magazine on his experience: https://www.stutteringhelp.org/content/president-joe-biden https://www.google.com/search?q=bid...F31%2F2019&tbm= FizFashizzle posted:Well gently caress me id never seen that. Maybe stop listening to whoever filled your brain with garbage bullshit about Biden's stutter somehow just being recent. It's been extremely well known for decades. Anybody telling you that is either a gigantic moron or deliberately filling your head with lies. Wherever you have been looking for news is pretty obviously a corrupted source. edit: you've been on this forum since 2005. How did you forget the many news articles about his stutter over the years? Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 16:58
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Well did you gently caress after??? He thankfully knew about my problem and just liked to give me poo poo about it. Would have been pretty awkward otherwise!!
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Feb 10, 2024 17:03
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FizFashizzle posted:You are conflating me responding to a poster asking if fluency is a part of a cognitive exam (which it is as evidenced above) and just talking about other things as if I’m saying Biden has all of those. He does not. Just to be clear, the MOCA is a screening exam, and is not in and of itself diagnostic of anything. For instance, someone who struggles with fluency on it should get further testing to nail down the reasons for that fluency issue, such as, for example, a stutter. People with dementia presenting with speech fluency issues does not mean everyone with speech fluency issues have dementia, for fucks sake. And maybe you should reevaluate your prior assumptions since you very confidently stated that Biden didn't have a stutter despite it being a fairly well known fact he has repeatedly talked about. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 17:05
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I'm not 100% convinced its just a stutter at this point but I also don't think its hugely important; and probably shouldn't get as much focus as it does when Biden is still clearly pretty sharp generally.
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Feb 10, 2024 17:14
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'm not 100% convinced its just a stutter at this point but I also don't think its hugely important; and probably shouldn't get as much focus as it does when Biden is still clearly pretty sharp generally. I mean, it's absolutely a problem and if we had any legitimate alternative candidates under 65 it would matter. As it is though you could give Biden an emergency lobotomy with a sledgehammer and he'd still have ten times the brain function of his competitor, so, here we are.
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Feb 10, 2024 17:19
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Who actually gives a poo poo about the specific medical causes of Biden looking like a total idiot / semi-comatose fossil? The perception is what is important and no one is going to care about these "well actually it's a stutter that causes these hundreds of gaffes" explanations, even if they are correct. His age is a major concern and all of these verbal / mental mistakes are going to keep compounding the issue.
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Feb 10, 2024 17:28
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Kind of rich that Republicans who have pretty much deified Reagan are concerned about Biden's memory and cognitive abilities.
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Feb 10, 2024 17:29
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Not to pile on any posters but Joe Biden's book Promises to Keep, published in 2007, literally opens with a chapter called "Impedimenta" that is about how he's struggled with a stutter since he was a child. A year before he's mentioned alongside James Earl Jones and Marilyn Monroe as famous people who 'overcame' stuttering to find success in a New York Times Magazine piece. And if you search in Google Books instead of just google, Biden's childhood stutter/stammer is mentioned in a good number of political books and magazine features going back to at least the 1987-1988 presidential primaries. If it's a made up thing for sympathy as he goes senile, he's been working the long con on that angle. I also can't tell if I am surrounded by tons of senile people aged 6-75 or if people are just discounting how often people will mix up names or dates in extemporaneous conversation, people mix things up A LOT and generally if someone is talking about the Super Bowl and say they hope San Francisco beats the 49ers because they don't like Pat Mahomes Sr. or Taylor Swift, you probably just sort of accept they meant "beat the Chiefs" and not that they have no idea how football works or that my twenty-something cousin is suffering from dementia. If (like my grandmother who is in fact Going Through It mentally in her 90s) that person segues into expounding at length about how the Tampa Bay Lighting should be in the Super Bowl, they've been playing so well and are basically undefeated and then starts name-checking Tom Brady and Warren Sapp as reasons the Lightning should be in the Super Bowl this year, that is a very different situation. I am not a doctor but the Egypt/Mexico thing really feels like the former, not the latter. Unless there's hidden footage of Biden angrily insisting that he was part of signing a NAFTA treaty with Anwar Sadat or how Israel fended off Mexico back in the 1960s.
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Feb 10, 2024 17:40
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Madkal posted:Kind of rich that Republicans who have pretty much deified Reagan are concerned about Biden's memory and cognitive abilities. The big reason it's in the news is due to the special prosecutor's report. He was hired by Garland, who Biden himself picked. Blaming this on Republicans is silly. Biden shot himself in the foot.
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Feb 10, 2024 17:47
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https://x.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1756326917970575576?s=20
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Feb 10, 2024 17:50
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Who actually gives a poo poo about the specific medical causes of Biden looking like a total idiot / semi-comatose fossil? The perception is what is important and no one is going to care about these "well actually it's a stutter that causes these hundreds of gaffes" explanations, even if they are correct. His age is a major concern and all of these verbal / mental mistakes are going to keep compounding the issue. it's entirely separate from Biden's electability concerns but as someone who has friends who have/had stutters, I bristle strongly at the idea that "person sometimes mis-speaks"/"person doesn't speak as well as others would expect them" is equated with "person's brain is faulty", irrespective of their age, and I feel very inclined to shut that idea down immediately when it comes up, just as it did with Fetterman in the past year
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Feb 10, 2024 17:52
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