(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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you gotta keep reading
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Feb 10, 2024 18:00
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also your hungry for iron and corn
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Feb 10, 2024 18:01
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The Voice of Labor posted:not what you'd call a class society yet there they were struggling against cold and hunger The more complex indigenous societies did have advanced social structures, and, not coincidentally, they were also able to produce a surplus through intensified agriculture. The thing is, the same social structures that allow roads to be constructed and granaries to be built can, over time, end up with all power in the hands of a ruling class who directs the collective productive energy of their society in their own interest. Hence, scarcity.
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Feb 10, 2024 18:05
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it's still really funny that there was a big academic debate during the cold war about whether or not the Inca were communist because they had centralized control over food distribution, resettled conquered peoples, and had a corvée system.
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Feb 10, 2024 19:16
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the social function of the capitalist is to be an unaccountable centre of power which can direct coordinated resources to productive ends this is the theoretical benefit of having a capitalist class. it's to some extent correct, because directing resources is a very important social task and organising it politically will tend to make political stakes very high, but it's still crazy that ostensible democrats are so implicitly OK with this premise
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Feb 10, 2024 19:21
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yeah let's just empower random people to distribute enormous resources throughout society, nothing bad can happen. let's organise our entire social structure around facilitating these random people's mode of action. this is clearly a rational way to organise society which all freedom-loving people should embrace
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Feb 10, 2024 19:22
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah let's just empower random people to distribute enormous resources throughout society, nothing bad can happen. let's organise our entire social structure around facilitating these random people's mode of action. this is clearly a rational way to organise society which all freedom-loving people should embrace What usually underpins it is the idea that captialism promotes a meritocracy so those people who have capital earned their position to do that by hustling and grinding through the economy (or their ancestors did). There's always some kind of justification for this arrangement, whether it's noblesse oblige or patronage or meritocracy.
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Feb 10, 2024 19:41
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Dreylad posted:What usually underpins it is the idea that captialism promotes a meritocracy so those people who have capital earned their position to do that by hustling and grinding through the economy (or their ancestors did). There's always some kind of justification for this arrangement, whether it's noblesse oblige or patronage or meritocracy. This is all because loving Dutch burghers wanted to be ennobled and resented having lower social status than the landed aristocracy, despite having loads of money. There was an article about how many bankers, and Americans in particular, have purchased English country homes since 1950 and it's staggering lol. Robert Maxwell bought Headington Hill, Conrad Black renounced Canadian citizenship so he could get a landed title, Baron Black of Crossharbour, and move into the landed estate there. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 19:46 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 19:42
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Frosted Flake posted:This is all because loving Dutch burghers wanted to be ennobled and resented having lower social status than the landed aristocracy, despite having loads of money. Going to Europe and visiting the major art museums there was eye-opening because American money keeps a lot of them running and supports their restoration work. Almost every museum was supported by art clubs made up of the ultrawealthy from various American cities.
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Feb 10, 2024 19:49
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Dreylad posted:Going to Europe and visiting the major art museums there was eye-opening because American money keeps a lot of them running and supports their restoration work. Almost every museum was supported by art clubs made up of the ultrawealthy from various American cities. communal money laundering mats
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Feb 10, 2024 19:52
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Dreylad posted:it's still really funny that there was a big academic debate during the cold war about whether or not the Inca were communist because they had centralized control over food distribution, resettled conquered peoples, and had a corvée system. IIRC Latin American Marxism furthered the argument of non-linear social development by taking on that -- similarly to how feudalism was affected by capitalism, more advanced* socio-economic characteristics and forms could certainly manifest in societies by pure response to material necessity, causing them to "leap over" stages of reference (also iirc this was even used to describe the early Soviet Union as comparison). However, all of them are pretty adamant in "lol of course it wasn't communism". It was stratocratic; it was a divinely-justified monarchy; labor allocation was determined by nobility, etc. An argument from a professor of mine back then was that the unique challenge of developing Andean agriculture more or less forced a much higher level of social organization to exist, which culminated with the Inca being the ones that amalgamated all those developments. Organizing into communal units which provide labor to the state (corvée) but also have their own communal obligation share (mutual labor) as one immense differential in comparison to other modes, as this form of mutual labor was effectively a multiplier of that community's production as a whole. That as result provided more productive power to be harnessed by the Inca state and so it went e: forgot to add the asterisk * -- "advanced" in the sense of material relations of a society as a whole, in attending needs and harnessing productive potential into further development of those relations dead gay comedy forums has issued a correction as of 20:12 on Feb 10, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2024 20:10
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dead gay comedy forums posted:IIRC Latin American Marxism furthered the argument of non-linear social development by taking on that -- similarly to how feudalism was affected by capitalism, more advanced* socio-economic characteristics and forms could certainly manifest in societies by pure response to material necessity, causing them to "leap over" stages of reference (also iirc this was even used to describe the early Soviet Union as comparison). Yeah that all makes sense to me. Andrean social development is truly fascinating because if you look at all the other places in the world where self-organized government emerged, the Andes is not one of the places you'd predict it happening.
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Feb 10, 2024 20:30
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you aint doing poo poo in the andes on your own when you can't concentrate people everywhere you want to deal with problems, cooperating probably becomes a lot more important there's so many paths in the andes that can be blocked by like 10 people in some parts, a kingdom of assholes wouldn't last too long i don't think
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Feb 10, 2024 20:34
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Frosted Flake posted:This is all because loving Dutch burghers wanted to be ennobled and resented having lower social status than the landed aristocracy, despite having loads of money. Having the money to do whatever the gently caress you want and voluntarily moving to England. lmao The dumbest people alive. Like bitch you couldn't pay me to go live in England.
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Feb 10, 2024 22:28
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ProfessorBooty posted:So am I a bad Marxist if I read the first two paragraphs of "Capital Volume 1" and put me in the mood to go shopping? You're a bad marxist if you want to extract value from the labor of others, everything else is on the spectrum of lifestylism
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Feb 11, 2024 00:58
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Mr. Lobe posted:You're a bad marxist if you want to extract value from the labor of others, everything else is on the spectrum of lifestylism that just makes you a bad communist/person, marxism as an intellectual practice is a very powerful explanatory and predictory force and you can definitely use it for evil. you better believe that the robber barons of the late19th/early 20th century were all familiar with marx Flournival Dixon has issued a correction as of 01:14 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 01:02
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who fights for communism has only one of all the virtues: that he fights for communism
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Feb 11, 2024 01:09
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yeah i gotta say if you expect the entirely of your movement to be made up of disciplined marxist thinkers who know what commodity fetishism is then you're probably not going to be seeing much success the vanguard party and core thinkers must be disciplined and educated but the movement as a whole just needs to be fighting for the working class
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Feb 11, 2024 01:11
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no marxist movements in empire. that would be too easy.
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Feb 11, 2024 01:37
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reading the new bevins book I'm p' sure the vanguard needs to mostly consist of soccer hooligans
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Feb 11, 2024 01:54
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are there any communist hooligan fanbases left. atalanta bergamo?
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Feb 11, 2024 01:57
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The Voice of Labor posted:reading the new bevins book I'm p' sure the vanguard needs to mostly consist of soccer hooligans experienced street fighters are very good to have when you're going to be doing street fighting, and hooligans also generally have some organisational experience which is another force multiplier they're not good at a lot, but they make excellent lightly-armed paramilitaries for whichever tendency can recruit them when the chips are down
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Feb 11, 2024 02:00
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V. Illych L. posted:who fights for communism has only one of all the virtues: that he fights for communism
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Feb 11, 2024 12:46
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leon trot-sky represents the element of trains vladimir filly lenin represents the element of applied theory horseph stalin represents the element of grain
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Feb 11, 2024 22:26
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materialism is fake, the world is held together by vibes. discuss
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Feb 14, 2024 21:31
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human nature
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Feb 14, 2024 22:03
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lumpentroll posted:human nature yep, humanity can never build socialism because of human nature. case closed
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Feb 14, 2024 22:08
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Socialism is too expensive because it doesn't incentivize innovation.
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Feb 14, 2024 22:26
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"Human nature" reminds me how there's a certain type of liberal who simply can't work without an anecdote. There's no direct historical case to be analyzed in its real terms, something that can be worked into actual substance. To nobody's surprise, that is an important part of what leads to things like "the national accounting is just like household budgeting" and other amazing bits
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Feb 14, 2024 22:39
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dead gay comedy forums posted:"Human nature" reminds me how there's a certain type of liberal who simply can't work without an anecdote. There's no direct historical case to be analyzed in its real terms, something that can be worked into actual substance. the word my buddy uses for this type of mentality is "perfectly spherical" for example "well hamas attacked israel first so theyre the bad guys" is an example of a perfectly spherical liberal position
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Feb 14, 2024 23:01
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To get really annoying about it another way to describe the phenomenon is as an empty body without organs: libs shoot their lines of flight all over the idea of "israel vs palestine" but its a completely empty idea, because theres no material reality to tie their idea of i/p to, only a series of unstructured narratives that move, frictionless, over the surface of an idea that cant and wont hatch
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Feb 14, 2024 23:06
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there's a greek word for that, everything existing on the surface, that I can't remember because college was so long ago
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Feb 15, 2024 00:47
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I have a lot more reading, I'm back to Smith but here's a question as I'm there. Does capitalism have to produce profit?
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Feb 15, 2024 01:00
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BillsPhoenix posted:I have a lot more reading, I'm back to Smith but here's a question as I'm there. What do you think it happens if capitalism, as a whole, doesn’t have profits?
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Feb 15, 2024 01:17
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hint: you don’t need any further reading to answer, just develop the idea in your head
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Feb 15, 2024 01:18
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Capitalists require profit as incentive. If profit disappears, I think it would force parity between capital and labor? (In a perfectly competitive, no barrier, theory world) But as it declines, the incentive for capitalists changes to preservation - collusion & corruption?
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Feb 15, 2024 01:25
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What happens to a business that is not profitable?
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Feb 15, 2024 01:29
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why would the capitalist invest in a business that wouldn't be profitable
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Feb 15, 2024 01:31
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dead gay comedy forums posted:What happens to a business that is not profitable? they get infinite money via venture capitalists
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Feb 15, 2024 01:32
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dead gay comedy forums posted:What happens to a business that is not profitable? If profit is negative, it will end. If it's simply zero, the company continues in perpetuity as is. In theory perfect world, profit would be limited to a minimum of zero?
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Feb 15, 2024 01:40
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