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Macaluso posted:I really enjoyed the dynamic of Lute being all in on Adam's whole thing. Plus she was also murder crazy. They were a lovely hosed up power couple and I loved them. If Hazbin has one thing that Helluva boss doesn't its their hosed up couples are all in on each other. Lute and Adam and Vox and Val are all completely nightmarish people who genuinely adore each other. It's a surreal dynamic to see some of the worst people you've ever seen hook up and for it to actually work.
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Feb 11, 2024 04:54
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Also on Adam, funny thing is if you go by the seven deadly sins, someone put it that it's entirely possible Adam managed to avoid them more out of lack of opportunities to be tempted when alive, rather than his own virtues. Given after being kicked out of Eden, he's not got much to be Proud about, and he's basically living a caveman life; he can't be Slothful because he'll starve to death, there's not gonna be enough food around for him to be idly Gluttonous for its own sake, there's not yet any concept of money or valuables to be Greedy for, and there's only one woman around to Lust over, his wife. Not sure on Wrath, but it was his son who was the first murderer, not himself. Of course, he ends up demonstrating about all those sins as an angel, ironically, now that he he has ample opportunities to. Macaluso posted:Vox and Valentino and their adopted daughter Velvette Weirdly enough that dynamic actually makes a lot of sense considering Vel is the youngest one.
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Feb 11, 2024 05:01
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Vox and Valentino and their adopted daughter Velvette 
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Feb 11, 2024 05:01
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Also on Adam, funny thing is if you go by the seven deadly sins, someone put it that it's entirely possible Adam managed to avoid them more out of lack of opportunities to be tempted when alive, rather than his own virtues. Given after being kicked out of Eden, he's not got much to be Proud about, and he's basically living a caveman life; he can't be Slothful because he'll starve to death, there's not gonna be enough food around for him to be idly Gluttonous for its own sake, there's not yet any concept of money or valuables to be Greedy for, and there's only one woman around to Lust over, his wife. Not sure on Wrath, but it was his son who was the first murderer, not himself.
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Feb 11, 2024 05:04
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Macaluso posted:I really enjoyed the dynamic of Lute being all in on Adam's whole thing. Plus she was also murder crazy. They were a lovely hosed up power couple and I loved them. I also there is defiently a jelousy thing with vaggie in her. either over adam or maybe lute liked vaggie or who knows. Flopsy posted:Literally saw her being called a zionist warmonger for getting a show on Amazon prime. Like I get complaining about her workplace behavior but getting into toppling nations is just this side of slightly psychotic. its that thing were weird antis and puriteens need to make up hosed up political poo poo about people they dont like, instead of going "yeah i dont care for her work" its "actually she is a big lover of genocide and isnt involved with x y and z and also hates puppies and kittens" its weird. like the show is pretty loving progressive and honestly pretty good at the various messages it gets across. i think people always talking up her work as edgy is weird because her stuff has edgy but like south park and etc are way more edgy and meaner. aqua team is darker. i like her stuff because its usually hopeful.
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Feb 11, 2024 05:10
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I also there is defiently a jelousy thing with vaggie in her. either over adam or maybe lute liked vaggie or who knows.
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Feb 11, 2024 05:13
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Nessus posted:This made me do a quick look and it seems like all the angels are literally different shades of gray, skinwise. (Lucifer and Charlie aren't, of course.) His arms and hands are dark grey.
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Feb 11, 2024 05:45
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Megillah Gorilla posted:His arms and hands are dark grey. Considering that his daughter seems to have bright white skin just like he does, those are probably just gloves. I guess the Morningstar family are just at the very lightest end of the angelic colour spectrum (which certainly fits the name).
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Feb 11, 2024 06:26
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I also there is defiently a jelousy thing with vaggie in her. either over adam or maybe lute liked vaggie or who knows. Well if she's not literally Hitler how can they feel right and justified saying absolutely insane poo poo otherwise? Megillah Gorilla posted:His arms and hands are dark grey. I actually suspect his hands and forearms are burnt. Possibly as part of his punishment when he fell. Charlie and Lilith notably lack these traits.
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Feb 11, 2024 06:29
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Larryb posted:I was mostly just curious if the whole “brown Adam” thing actually had any basis in religious folklore or if it’s just something people made up for the sake of complaining I remember a french comic where a priest starts killing people because he found a statue of god and god is black and NO ONE MUST KNOW. That's the big twist at the end when the murders had been the mystery of the book. The main character jsut goes "wtf you're crazy, all this proves is that ancient people made a statue."
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Feb 11, 2024 06:32
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Darth Walrus posted:Considering that his daughter seems to have bright white skin just like he does, those are probably just gloves. I guess the Morningstar family are just at the very lightest end of the angelic colour spectrum (which certainly fits the name). They aren't merely pale, but Clowncasian.
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Feb 11, 2024 07:34
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Also on Adam, funny thing is if you go by the seven deadly sins, someone put it that it's entirely possible Adam managed to avoid them more out of lack of opportunities to be tempted when alive, rather than his own virtues. Given after being kicked out of Eden, he's not got much to be Proud about, and he's basically living a caveman life; he can't be Slothful because he'll starve to death, there's not gonna be enough food around for him to be idly Gluttonous for its own sake, there's not yet any concept of money or valuables to be Greedy for, and there's only one woman around to Lust over, his wife. Not sure on Wrath, but it was his son who was the first murderer, not himself. I remember reading a theory that in this setting, he didn't eat the apple himself. The show makes a point of only stating that Eve accepted the apple, not the equally important second part where she offers it to him and he accepts. The reason he's in heaven could be that he never learned the concept of sin, unlike Eve and all who followed after did, and therefore is technically incapable of it. He's innocent, in the most biblical sense of the term. This translating into him being an edgy shitlord with no concept of shame and only being in heaven because he's God's special little guy is pretty great so I'm a believer.
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Feb 11, 2024 12:03
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https://x.com/marsh_poco/status/1756543634256839056?s=46&t=D43mFJSHH0rxuIO9HRRQrQ
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Feb 11, 2024 13:51
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What even is Velvette's control-thing, 'trends' ? Social Media, fashion, they're both 'trends' I guess? - The more souls that follow the #Bitch ? Vox is TV Media (advertising?) - Give all your money to VOX Networks! Saw this with the Vox Angelic Security bit. Val is the porn industry, I'd guess.
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Feb 11, 2024 14:06
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Iymarra posted:What even is Velvette's control-thing, 'trends' ? Social Media, fashion, they're both 'trends' I guess? - The more souls that follow the #Bitch ? Velvette is pretty obviously someone who handles the social media + probably fashion in general. She's a trendsetter.
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Feb 11, 2024 14:17
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Iymarra posted:What even is Velvette's control-thing, 'trends' ? Social Media, fashion, they're both 'trends' I guess? - The more souls that follow the #Bitch ? Velvette is Social Media, Vox is TV, Val is Porn. Between them they have a pretty hefty monopoly on media in Pentagram City. Velvette and Vox are both sort of faces, because Valentino is not a "front of the band" guy if you want to attract more employees. But I think Valentino is implied to have the most "natural" power of the three, and is certainly the one with the most indebted souls.
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Feb 11, 2024 14:56
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Yeah, like I said I think Val tends to be the more one-on-one type, between his actual mind control pheromones and predatory manipulation, while Vox is more brute-force social manipulation via media monopolisation and what's implied to be low-key hypnosis built into almost all of Hell's media. (Hence why Alastor's a particular rival to him on that front, given the Radio Demon's signature broadcasts) We haven't seen what Vel can do in comparison, but she does seem more clothing-focused, and seems to be the one who'll represent them all in meetings if the other two can't be assed, which is clearly often. They also seem to have the dynamic of two terrible awful men obsessed with each other and their adopted daughter.
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Feb 11, 2024 15:06
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Pyrotoad posted:I remember reading a theory that in this setting, he didn't eat the apple himself. The show makes a point of only stating that Eve accepted the apple, not the equally important second part where she offers it to him and he accepts. That makes a perfect hosed-up sense.
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Feb 11, 2024 15:49
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Also on Adam, funny thing is if you go by the seven deadly sins, someone put it that it's entirely possible Adam managed to avoid them more out of lack of opportunities to be tempted when alive, rather than his own virtues. Given after being kicked out of Eden, he's not got much to be Proud about, and he's basically living a caveman life; he can't be Slothful because he'll starve to death, there's not gonna be enough food around for him to be idly Gluttonous for its own sake, there's not yet any concept of money or valuables to be Greedy for, and there's only one woman around to Lust over, his wife. Not sure on Wrath, but it was his son who was the first murderer, not himself. Well, you're taking fairly narrow views on just what the deadly sins track on to. Pride isn't just "being overly, but validly, proud of stuff you've done". Adam is clearly overly prideful about poo poo he has really no part in, which would easily be labeled as sinful. His main recurring joke is "All of you came from THESE NUTS!". That's very clearly a sinful level of pride, even aside from the fact that it's not really something he can lay claim to. He didn't have a hand in his own creation, and like you said, he only had one woman to procreate with, everyone after him kept that line going. Sloth isn't just "starves to death", he could be not pulling his own weight in the post-garden wasteland. Making Eve do all the work, or more than her fair share of the work. Gluttony and Greed generally go hand in hand, and even in a subsistence and pre-currency world are easy to engage in. Just taking more than his share of a meal, or trying to hide food or materials from Eve/his family counts. For Wrath and Lust, that's also and easy one: Lilith. Dude has massive hangups about Lilith that have certainly morphed into his weird little brainwashed cult of attractive women killers. And for Envy, well, his life sucked post-garden and you can very easily be envious of yourself, especially from an earlier and better time. And during the events of the show you can see that he has envy for Charlie and the Hotel crew because everyone there, even if they didn't start out this way, is connected and honestly wants to be there and help each other, while adam has had to forcibly create his weird little fan/gently caress club. Adam's characterization in HH embodies every single deadly sin, and that's part of his narrative purpose. He's a terrible, sinful, evil rear end in a top hat who is somehow not only allowed in heaven, but given power and position to boot. loving why? Pyrotoad posted:I remember reading a theory that in this setting, he didn't eat the apple himself. The show makes a point of only stating that Eve accepted the apple, not the equally important second part where she offers it to him and he accepts. Every single interpretation of the Garden of Eden story has Adam eating the apple as well. But this does bring up something I've been wondering about : Just what particular brand of religiosity is Vizie pulling from for this universe? Considering that HB and HH both mention things like Lucifer being separate from Satan, Lilith, things from Solomon like the Ars Goetia, and invoking specific hierarchies of angles, makes it pretty clear she's pulling a lot from Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Judaism, but there's definitely some weird mixes going on. I'm not sure how much it really matters, since it's her own thing, but if we had a better idea of what frameworks she's pulling from it'd be easier to sorta guess what direction things will be going in. Interestingly, HH and HB both seem to be following the newer Catholic tradition of "there is no purgatory". Used to be a thing, kinda as a hold over of post indulgences where there had to be a "waiting room" of sorts to see if your family could raise enough money, but since that ended the general theological "need" for it fell away until they decided that if you're not actually bad enough to go to hell, it's probably just fine that you go to heaven. Crain fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 18:09
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She's basing it on hit ttrpg In Nomine.
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Feb 11, 2024 18:23
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I think they've been pretty open they're using bits and pieces from all over the place. The structure of the rings is clearly based on Dante, prominent demons based on the Ars Goetia, Lillith is only a thing from rather fringe Judaic writings, and depictions of Heaven and Hell drawing from all kinds of pop culture and popular imagery, put together into an original structure that shows Heaven and Hell to be more fantasy settings that happen to have points of contact with Earth's spiritual ecosystem (as well as Earth itself being basically an urban fantasy setting, where angels and demons are supernatural entities unpredictably interfering for their own reasons) with distinct species, cultures, heirarchies, social tensions, and forms of magic and technology. You could probably run a TTRPG game in the setting quite easily with various systems.
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Feb 11, 2024 18:35
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MonsieurChoc posted:She's basing it on hit ttrpg In Nomine. hell yeah
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Feb 11, 2024 20:02
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Crain posted:Well, you're taking fairly narrow views on just what the deadly sins track on to. Pride isn't just "being overly, but validly, proud of stuff you've done". Adam is clearly overly prideful about poo poo he has really no part in, which would easily be labeled as sinful. His main recurring joke is "All of you came from THESE NUTS!". That's very clearly a sinful level of pride, even aside from the fact that it's not really something he can lay claim to. He didn't have a hand in his own creation, and like you said, he only had one woman to procreate with, everyone after him kept that line going. Sloth isn't just "starves to death", he could be not pulling his own weight in the post-garden wasteland. Making Eve do all the work, or more than her fair share of the work. Gluttony and Greed generally go hand in hand, and even in a subsistence and pre-currency world are easy to engage in. Just taking more than his share of a meal, or trying to hide food or materials from Eve/his family counts. For Wrath and Lust, that's also and easy one: Lilith. Dude has massive hangups about Lilith that have certainly morphed into his weird little brainwashed cult of attractive women killers. And for Envy, well, his life sucked post-garden and you can very easily be envious of yourself, especially from an earlier and better time. And during the events of the show you can see that he has envy for Charlie and the Hotel crew because everyone there, even if they didn't start out this way, is connected and honestly wants to be there and help each other, while adam has had to forcibly create his weird little fan/gently caress club. It's a cherry picked hodge hodge. She has admitted to this and it shows in the work.
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Feb 11, 2024 20:34
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Also, pretty sure Purgatory is still a thing in Catholicism. It's Limbo that was done away with because someone in Upper Management finally twigged that sending unbaptized babies straight to "Baby Hell" was bad PR. Oh, and Limbo's also where "good people" went before the coming of Christ, so if you ever wondered about that...everyone went to Diet Hell before then. Seems fair.
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Feb 11, 2024 21:23
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There are a lot of different takes and versions of the bible and the stories in them, I’m sure there are sites out there that show the differences in some of the retellings. It does allow for Viv to decide what elements to go with, she can pick and choose elements from different sources, cultures or religions even. The only official version is the one you supposedly believe in if at all. Otherwise there can be many alterations and takes on characters. Some might be familar and others might not. Lilith being a great example as quite a few people who watched had no clue who she was.
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Feb 11, 2024 21:25
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Also, pretty sure Purgatory is still a thing in Catholicism.
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Feb 11, 2024 21:30
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Also, pretty sure Purgatory is still a thing in Catholicism. Oh right, that's what it was. Purgatory itself is also apparently no longer, or never was and they've tried to clarify this with the populace, a place. It's supposed to be process that happens on the way to heaven if you're not at 100%. So there's only two places to end up, and I guess if you're not on the express way to Heaven you get detoured through a spiritual car wash.
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Feb 11, 2024 21:48
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Of all the bits of sorcery Charlie has been shown using, none surpasses the power of how she gets high heels on over her hooves.
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Feb 11, 2024 22:00
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I heard some odd discourse yesterday. Some individuals were mad that Husk was a slave to Alastor. They felt that having "the only black character on the show" be a slave was a problem. The discourse then shifted to saw Alastor was a mentor to Charlie and how "bad it is a slaver is the main character's mentor." It kind of boggled my brain a bit. Husk isn't the only black character on the show, for one. There is Vee and Alastor, both are PoC. I don't know if Alastor is black, but I know he isn't white. Technically, Vee is a hellborn but I feel she is black coded. Also, Husk isn't really black coded. He was originally played by Mick Lauer, who is Caucasian, and the idea of him having sold his soul was true then. Husk only became black when the actor changed to Keith David, because Mick couldn't sing and Keith for sure can. So, it wasn't a racially motivated decision. Then, there is the fact Husk isn't the only character who is enslaved and the story focuses a lot more on Angel being enslaved. And calling it enslavement is technically true, but also a bit misleading. Demons doing contract magic to collect souls is just Christian folklore and, while slavery can describe it, it is a bit off to compare it to real world slavery. There is an attempt by the show to compare it to real world things, but that is drug addiction and debt slavery, respectfully, which is a different beast all together. I can go on, but it just felt like a bad faith reading of the show. Unrelated, my friend sent me this article but it's a 52 minute read so I didn't read it. Still, thought I'd share it. It's a critical review of the show: https://ponett.medium.com/my-own-personal-hell-thoughts-on-hazbin-hotel-1b226af317f5
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Feb 11, 2024 22:01
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For a little while I wasn't sure Christ was a thing in the Hazbin universe until some character says "What the Christ?" or something and even then I don't know what Christ has to do with the Hazbiniverse. It's probably a good idea to not bring it up at all but at the same time I don't think the story can go that long without wiggling into that territory. EDIT: Is there even a "God" in the story? There's a heaven, but is there a creator god?
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Feb 11, 2024 22:11
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Covok posted:I can go on, but it just felt like a bad faith reading of the show. 99% of the criticism about the show (and Helluva Boss) is in bad faith
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Feb 11, 2024 22:15
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Covok posted:I heard some odd discourse yesterday. Some individuals were mad that Husk was a slave to Alastor. They felt that having "the only black character on the show" be a slave was a problem. The discourse then shifted to saw Alastor was a mentor to Charlie and how "bad it is a slaver is the main character's mentor." This is one of those really annoying things about fandoms where you just can't win. Conflating the race of an actor and their part if not explicitly stated is a bit weird. Like, was the Arbiter from Halo black because Keith David voiced him? Was Goliath from Gargoyles? With a show like HH race fails to track 1:1 and with very few exceptions we don't really know what anyone looked like as a Human before reaching hell. Also there's no real answer for hellborn or heavenborn characters beyond "They're an Imp, Hellhound, Cherub, etc". Also, this is one of those things that really ticks me off: People really can't separate morality when it comes to their anti-heros or favorite villains. Alastor is an "ally" but he's clearly 100% a villain in the story. He's a bad dude, he's completely loving EVIL. Why wouldn't he enslave people? That's literally one of his main power sets. The pilot calls it out explicitly and the show demonstrates it implicitly (and still pretty explicitly, short of saying the words "deal maker") that making a "deal" with a demon like him is a capital B, capital T, BAD THING. This is a show dealing with very heavy subject matter mixed in with it's funny foul language and raunchy jokes. I hate when fans get bent out of shape about "oh why would you have [explicit terrible villain] do [explicit terrible villain poo poo]!?". because that's characterization and it's needed in the story. It's very weird that fans will just gloss over the whole "He was a serial killer in life and in Hell" but focus in on him enslaving other demons as a part of his deal making as what is a bridge too far. DoubleCakes posted:For a little while I wasn't sure Christ was a thing in the Hazbin universe until some character says "What the Christ?" or something and even then I don't know what Christ has to do with the Hazbiniverse. It's probably a good idea to not bring it up at all but at the same time I don't think the story can go that long without wiggling into that territory. The question of God is literally one of the central plot points in the show at this point. It'll be interesting to see what the story decides to go with when it comes to Jesus Christ. Especially considering there's a very heavy bend towards an Old Testament way of things right now. I personally kinda figured that would play into the whole "How did Adam get into Heaven if he was the first sinner" question, but they decided to bypass that for this season. Crain fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 22:17
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Lord and God are both words that have been said so chances are God exist. Unless he died. Fandom's are always fickle and picky at best and you can bet we'll see a lot of that reflected online. Helluva Boss has helped build a lot of the lore if not most of it at this point. Meanwhile Hazbin Hotel has been a thing that existed for what, six years at this point but only a single pilot leaving people to create their own future fan stories/characters until it finally aired. It had a lot of expectations and people created a ton of stuff around it. You can bet that not everyone is going to be happy the show isn't their version of it. Or some characters might go one way or another. You can easily imagine the up roar by some if say Alastor really becomes the big bad and tries to kill any of the main cast. Or how about if Angel and Husk don't end up together. Stuff like that. You know there's going to be shipping fights no matter what happens. We already knew that Husk and Nifty both served Alastor, that got established in the pilot. People upset that a VA is black voicing one of them is silly non sense and an over reaction, especially since another voiced him and his status was pretty much already established. The Last Call fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 22:34
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Covok posted:Unrelated, my friend sent me this article but it's a 52 minute read so I didn't read it. Still, thought I'd share it. It's a critical review of the show: https://ponett.medium.com/my-own-personal-hell-thoughts-on-hazbin-hotel-1b226af317f5 I ain't fuckin reading all that, but I did scan it. It's mildly amusing if only because part is that the show is bad because it's rote "tumblr bait," and part is shallow analysis of all the ways it's "problematic" that wouldn't be he least bit out of place on tumblr. Without a hint of irony or self-awareness. Edit: The presence of St. Peter also suggests (confirms?) that Christ exists in this universe. Theris fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 22:34
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DoubleCakes posted:For a little while I wasn't sure Christ was a thing in the Hazbin universe until some character says "What the Christ?" or something and even then I don't know what Christ has to do with the Hazbiniverse. It's probably a good idea to not bring it up at all but at the same time I don't think the story can go that long without wiggling into that territory. Which would be very funny, and in character so to speak for Christ imo, but would have been something of an anticlimax. I think they were wise to present it as angels vs. demons more than having God engaged explicitly.
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Feb 11, 2024 22:42
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The Last Call posted:Lord and God are both words that have been said so chances are God exist. Unless he died. on the first point. God might be a magic unicorn. The Last Call posted:Lord and God are both words that have been said so chances are God exist. Unless he died. yeah. i think part of the issue is hazbin has existed for a long time as vague blank slate and now its actually has a story thats gonna go places and fans are pissed about that somewhat.
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Feb 11, 2024 22:46
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Crain posted:This is one of those really annoying things about fandoms where you just can't win. Conflating the race of an actor and their part if not explicitly stated is a bit weird. Like, was the Arbiter from Halo black because Keith David voiced him? Was Goliath from Gargoyles? With a show like HH race fails to track 1:1 and with very few exceptions we don't really know what anyone looked like as a Human before reaching hell. Also there's no real answer for hellborn or heavenborn characters beyond "They're an Imp, Hellhound, Cherub, etc". That was the thing I forgot to mention in my original post: "Alastor is also clearly just using Charlie's naivete to his own ends and Charlie is even aware of this to a degree but allows it because it serves her goals." Because that's another element that makes the read bad faith: it's not like Charlie unequivocally loves Alastor. She fears him when they first meet and, even during the song and dance number with Lucifer, I feel she is just happy that one of the sinners is show signs of trying to be better and is too invested on this being the case to realize Alastor is just trying to gently caress with Lucifer. Alastor is a bad guy, Charlie seems him as useful and hopes she can redeem him, Alastor knows this and plays her because of it. Consider how Charlie talk to Alastor when she is emotionally vulnerable and doesn't have the effort to put up the front when Alastor comes to her bedroom. She is apprehensive, calls him a sadist, tells him he isn't interested in having him mock her today, and is scared of making a deal. She only turns around when she realizes Alastor does have the means to help her achieve her goals and totally views it as "this is a bad idea but I got no choice." It's really bad faith to call Alastor Charlie's mentor. He does want to mentor her, but he is clearly doing it for an evil goal, since he explicitly says he wants to guide her to his own ends and gets giddy when she almost breaks and declares that she's like an Overlord of Hell. Alastor knows he can't be stronger than Lucifer no matter how many souls he can collect because Lucifer has angelic power, which is explicitly and consistently shown to trump demonic power.. But, so does Charlie and he can use her to obtain power from behind the throne. That's my read, anyway. Also, I absolutely HATE how people just absolutely conflate an author writing about something as endorsing it. I despise that so much. Yes, be careful with sensitive subject matter. Yes, it is a bad bit of tone and kind of offensive to do the Sir Pentious joke and Angel Dust's story in the same show. But don't then go and think this means the creator's endorse sexual assault or something. It's very, very loving common for people want good media to be from good media and bad media from bad people and they will force things to fit that narrative. If the show is bad, then the creator is bad. If the creator is bad, the show is bad. If the show is good, then the creator is good. If the creator is good, the show is good. People twist themselves into knotts trying to force the world to match this simple narrative. The world is a lot messier than that. Bad people can make good things. That doesn't mean you should consume the good thing because it supports bad people. But it's important to understand that because, otherwise, you will become a stan gaslighting yourselves into thinking the creator couldn't have done the bad thing because you like the show. And a good show can make a misstep while trying to tell a good story or have a good moral because people aren't perfect and sometimes make mistakes. AND SOMETIMES having even the good characters in your story do a bad thing is necessary for the story you want to tell and the theme you are trying to impart and it doesn't condemn the writer or the character and it has a lot more to do with how the story treats the element and how the writer wants to portray it that shows what their real intentions are. Theris posted:I ain't fuckin reading all that, but I did scan it. It's mildly amusing if only because part is that the show is bad because it's rote "tumblr bait," and part is shallow analysis of all the ways it's "problematic" that wouldn't be he least bit out of place on tumblr. Without a hint of irony or self-awareness. Yeah, I scanned enough of the article to get that contradiction. It struck me as really odd to be like "it's like all those tumblr projects somehow happened and its bad because its tumblr" when, like, if young creators are making stuff and communicating with each other and sharing design notes then, yeah, eventually you'll see that reflected in mainstream media. Like, of course, some shows would start looking like a tumblr character design blog because, well, young people eventually get jobs in the mainstream industries and will eventually be trusted to helm a show. And, sure, they might sometimes get watered down designs to fit a "corporate look" like what happened to Steven Universe (though, I think that might have been practicality too) but eventually the designs are just going to reflect what young creators like to make.
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Feb 11, 2024 22:48
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Covok posted:That was the thing I forgot to mention in my original post: "Alastor is also clearly just using Charlie's naivete to his own ends and Charlie is even aware of this to a degree but allows it because it serves her goals." Because that's another element that makes the read bad faith: it's not like Charlie unequivocally loves Alastor. She fears him when they first meet and, even during the song and dance number with Lucifer, I feel she is just happy that one of the sinners is show signs of trying to be better and is too invested on this being the case to realize Alastor is just trying to gently caress with Lucifer. Alastor is a bad guy, Charlie seems him as useful and hopes she can redeem him, Alastor knows this and plays her because of it. Consider how Charlie talk to Alastor when she is emotionally vulnerable and doesn't have the effort to put up the front when Alastor comes to her bedroom. She is apprehensive, calls him a sadist, tells him he isn't interested in having him mock her today, and is scared of making a deal. She only turns around when she realizes Alastor does have the means to help her achieve her goals and totally views it as "this is a bad idea but I got no choice." It's really bad faith to call Alastor Charlie's mentor. He does want to mentor her, but he is clearly doing it for an evil goal, since he explicitly says he wants to guide her to his own ends and gets giddy when she almost breaks and declares that she's like an Overlord of Hell. Alastor knows he can't be stronger than Lucifer no matter how many souls he can collect because Lucifer has angelic power, which is explicitly and consistently shown to trump demonic power.. But, so does Charlie and he can use her to obtain power from behind the throne. That's my read, anyway. yeah on the tumblr thing, its interesting because all the godfathers of animation based all of there stuff off vaudville and the good and the bad that came with it. animators and hell all creatives always borrow from what inspires them and who came before and its interesting to see all the stuff viv and team pull from in both shows. I mean gently caress the hazbin pilot starts with an old vaudville tune Im always chasing rainbows, which is inturn put to a melody by chopin. everyone borrows everything. I mean part of the reason i love her work is because she and her team clearly give a gently caress about what they are making and put so much effort it. obviously various big companies to that too but with some much stuff being such corp slop. its nice.
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Feb 11, 2024 23:34
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Someone or something above Sera on the Eternal totem pole dropped Pentious in the Seraphim's private quarters as a statement.
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Feb 11, 2024 23:41
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Covok posted:I heard some odd discourse yesterday. Some individuals were mad that Husk was a slave to Alastor. They felt that having "the only black character on the show" be a slave was a problem. The discourse then shifted to saw Alastor was a mentor to Charlie and how "bad it is a slaver is the main character's mentor." Oh for fucksakes I had a feeling this was going to come up and the discourse did not disappoint. Angel is shown explicitly on leash too and he's Italian American. They gonna point out how that's hosed up too or are we just zeroing in on a Creole man being a massive loving hypocrite? The leashes are symbolic of someone selling their soul and being at the owners beck and call. It can be akin to slavery but that depends entirely on the details of the contract. Angel is free outside the studio but is at Valentino's mercy inside. Husk is at Alastor's beck and call but Alastor is mostly lenient unless he feels disrespected. The details of Alastor's specific deal are implied to be horrific to the point he's quietly losing his mind over it. It's meant to be awful and it's portrayed as such so I don't know what else they want.
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Feb 11, 2024 23:44
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