Saukkis posted:I assume this also didn't take into account all the emissions produced by the oil refineries and oil tankers. Those also apply to ICE vehicles at an even greater ratio because of their less efficient use of fossil fuels.
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Feb 11, 2024 17:30
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Cactus Ghost posted:i mean, if you want some kind of arbitrary line to say this is green and that isn't, you can put it anywhere you want, because "green" is a nebulous concept and everything commonly used to define it (like sustainability, destruction of the natural environment, or emission of fossil carbon) is a gradient. i just think it's silly to draw that line with fuel cells on one side of it and batteries on the other, especially when the reason given is use of fossil carbon Some of us have solar panels on our house. I guess fossil fuels were used to transport the solar panels tho, so who's to say if they are actually good.
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Feb 11, 2024 17:43
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It’s so infuriating reading those “EVs are actually more polluting than gas!” articles because for ~*some reason*~ ICE emissions are only counted starting when you buy the car, where as with an EV it always counts always inane bs like the worker who built your car charged his phone on a fossil powered grid, look at how not green your car is
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Feb 11, 2024 17:48
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Wait we don't want more pollution? gently caress that I want to leave the world a polluted wasteland, it's called a legacy.
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Feb 11, 2024 17:57
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Tracing the emissions of a whole rear end supply chain is infeasible and wildly inaccurate for consumers. The systemic solution is a giant whopping carbon tax along with a carbon border adjustment tax. Then you just buy whatever you wanna buy. Market sorts itself out.
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Feb 11, 2024 18:06
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Yeah it's pretty depressing to see that EVs have become yet another politicized issue, with chuds basically believing that they are evil or whatever. Any social media post even mentioning EVs is almost always inundated with the kind of BS arguments the previous poster mentioned.
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Feb 11, 2024 18:15
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Cactus Ghost posted:i mean, if you want some kind of arbitrary line to say this is green and that isn't, you can put it anywhere you want, because "green" is a nebulous concept and everything commonly used to define it (like sustainability, destruction of the natural environment, or emission of fossil carbon) is a gradient. i just think it's silly to draw that line with fuel cells on one side of it and batteries on the other, especially when the reason given is use of fossil carbon I'd like to draw the line at 50%, e.g. "a majority of the fuel or electricity came from green sources", in which case fuel cells are definitely nowhere close to being green and EVs can be green depending on your local power grid.
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Feb 11, 2024 18:26
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"Green" as a boolean adjective is nonsense from the start unless you're defining it as "zero environmental impact anywhere" because defining it as anything less than that subjectively leaves room for someone to justifiably criticize your usage of the term. It's more usefully denoted as a spectrum; but even that's subjective because it's a multi-axial spectrum and at some point you have to add arbitrary weights to the different kinds of environmental impact and everyone can have their own justification for different weights. Is Lithium mining leaving a big toxic pit in the ground in one place better than pumping CO2 into the atmosphere? Most people would say 'sure'... unless that big toxic pit happens to be their backyard, in which case they're going to have a much different valuation; and so will the people who have an oil refinery in their backyard. The big benefit of electrification over fuel cells or fossil fuels is not inherently that one is "green" and the others aren't. It's that electrification makes the power source flexible; so we have options on allocating and reallocating the ongoing environmental impacts today and tomorrow to account for factors we might not even recognize yet.
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Feb 11, 2024 19:23
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One of the biggest things that I think is very cool about the electrification trend is the use of EVs as energy storage for the grid, which could help build a much more reliant power grid and the ability to bank renewables like wind and solar. Having a million EVs plugged in with V2G capabilities in a given area is pretty huge! I think there are a lot of massive benefits to this.
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Feb 11, 2024 19:28
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Why do you even eat vegan lol that farm worker had a chicken sandwich for lunch you loving murderer. (the EV fossil fuel argument in its entirety)
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Feb 11, 2024 19:46
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Celexi posted:it isn't silly when fuel cells have like a quarter of the efficiency of a battery, even if you start with gasoline and green aside you are getting close to 100% efficiency with a battery while you are getting a fraction of that with fuel cell cool dude, we have different opinions about where the silly line is on the "green" spectrum. that's ok. calm down Cactus Ghost fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 22:00
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biznatchio posted:"Green" as a boolean adjective is nonsense from the start unless you're defining it as "zero environmental impact anywhere" because defining it as anything less than that subjectively leaves room for someone to justifiably criticize your usage of the term. The other thing you can use to help counter the lithium mine argument is that lithium batteries are recyclable, fuel is not. Once that lithium is out of the ground, we will be able to keep using it over and over again for an extremely long time. Cleaning up a lithium mine is a big project, but not insurmountable. Mining lithium without significant harm to the local environment is a solvable issue if the price gets high enough (and it probably will). Newer chemistries (EG: LFP) are basically entirely made out of abundant raw materials with already known global reserves well in excess of theoretical demand, and its all recyclable, pull it out of the ground once, and you can keep using it basically forever. Your decade old battery is worn out? It doesn't just evaporate into the atmosphere or get buried in a landfill, it gets ground down, reprocessed, refined, and eventually turned right back into a brand new battery that starts the cycle all over again. The fuel in an ICE vehicle's tank? It gets set on fire! You burn it up and it floats away into the atmosphere where it cannot be easily recaptured! Replacing it requires mining more of it out of the ground! Even in the case of bio-fuels, farming for them is not a clean or particularly environmentally friendly process, and just clearing the fields in the first place means releasing an enormous amount of carbon into the atmosphere.
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Feb 11, 2024 22:35
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The CO2 created by ice engines gets recycled by trees, it’s as green as can be.
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Feb 11, 2024 23:47
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bird with big dick posted:The CO2 created by ice engines gets recycled by trees, it’s as green as can be. Now if you would excuse me, the amazon won't burn itself down to make way for ethanol production you know.
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Feb 11, 2024 23:51
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If you all really want to go crazy, cars in general are way worse than mass transit or riding a bike.
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Feb 12, 2024 00:06
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Peachfart posted:If you all really want to go crazy, cars in general are way worse than mass transit or riding a bike. While it's hard to find legitimate counters to your argument, this really only applies to urban areas. European cities like London and Paris have been implementing laws that fine outside commuters/visiters based on vehicle weight which is good. I doubt it'll happen to North American cities any time soon, though.
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Feb 12, 2024 00:11
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Peachfart posted:If you all really want to go crazy, cars in general are way worse than mass transit or riding a bike. I want trains loving everywhere up in this bitch country but nope.
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Feb 12, 2024 00:14
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Indiana_Krom posted:The other thing you can use to help counter the lithium mine argument is that lithium batteries are recyclable, fuel is not. Except that lithium recycling is largely non existent or it costs a goddamned fortune. Sorta like recycling old solar panels should be easy and free, but no, It's $22 per panel where I'm at in California. Peachfart posted:If you all really want to go crazy, cars in general are way worse than mass transit or riding a bike. This. Personal transportation will never be ecologically friendly as long as capitalism is involved. The auto industry lives around a 10 year shelf life. When I lived in Ukraine I got to ride ~50 year old trains running off of a 40 year old reactor. This hardware had long since paid its ecological debt in manufacturing. Nothing is as green as a spinach powered bike. Shame it's not feasible in most of America because it's not just one more freeway lane. The system isn't designed for this from the ground up. GATOS Y VATOS posted:I want trains loving everywhere up in this bitch country but nope. This country did. GM and Firestone gave us the city bus.
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Feb 12, 2024 00:17
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how dare you suggest my consumer purchases come with compromises. you absolute monster. have you considered these other purchases i have also made. dril tweet
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Feb 12, 2024 00:34
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Elviscat posted:Do you have a Nissan Leaf, and a deep love of sketchy electric devices? Donggaun Longood Technology Company Cactus Ghost posted:what was mentioned prior was coal, which is about ten percent of US power. oil and natural gas are about a third each, with renewables and fission rounding out the rest I believe you're mixing energy for electricity here. The breakdown you're describing is for total energy, not electricity:  but for electricity, coal is ~23%, natural gas is ~33%, oil ~1%, and renewables & nuclear each ~22%  the oil consumed in the total energy number is for ICE vehicles and industrial use mostly. source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/
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Feb 12, 2024 01:54
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Feb 12, 2024 02:13
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Holy poo poo Imgur is 56k slow right now for me.
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Feb 12, 2024 02:26
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Hell yeah 
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Feb 12, 2024 02:38
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Yeah it's pretty depressing to see that EVs have become yet another politicized issue, with chuds basically believing that they are evil or whatever. Any social media post even mentioning EVs is almost always inundated with the kind of BS arguments the previous poster mentioned. EVs have been a politicized issue since everyone decided to hinge their environmental policy on them back in the 90s.
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Feb 12, 2024 03:09
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Hey now, in most of the country, the giant car-crushing hands run on coal, which is not ok.
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Feb 12, 2024 03:23
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I see EVs as a stepping stone towards going green worldwide. Everyone will be less tolerant to burning fuels when they don't see/smell combustion vehicles all the time.
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Feb 12, 2024 03:43
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EVs are a piece of the puzzle but more importantly they're a consumer consumption solution vs anything real that would cost politicians or business in the short term
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Feb 12, 2024 03:58
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Bone Crimes posted:Hey now, in most of the country, the giant car-crushing hands run on coal, which is not ok. Running EVs through the giant car crushing hand is a lot more exciting than doing it with ICE cars, if you don't prep 'em in any way.
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Feb 12, 2024 04:38
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Elviscat posted:Running EVs through the giant car crushing hand is a lot more exciting than doing it with ICE cars, if you don't prep 'em in any way. oh, yeah, I was just thinking about an ev demolition derby. 
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Feb 12, 2024 05:07
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It's just super ironic that the state that's most going in on EVs is also the one where most people can't take advantage of the charge-at-home thing because home ownership for anyone under 40 is impossible without an inheritance.
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Feb 12, 2024 05:22
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Bone Crimes posted:just another way evs are superior. nah they'll use something more stable, maybe even lead-acid. or at least, something way smaller. it isn't like derby cars now use a big sixteen gallon tank full to the brim, they use tiny little 1 gallon bladders inside a heavy steel box what'll be weird is not having a radiator to kill. they'll just bash into each other until... i guess until the wheels fall off?
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Feb 12, 2024 07:14
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  Can I just hotlink ebay images? Is this a hacked on handle or an adapter? https://www.ebay.com/itm/186287828129
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Feb 12, 2024 09:19
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that looks like a hacked up handle
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Feb 12, 2024 09:29
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Yeah it sure does, doesn't it? Thought it was funny. Geez, the Leaf EVSEs on ebay run over $200 to $300. Is there another OE quality 14-50 capable unit for cheap or should I get another Tesla unit and adapter for a spare?
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Feb 12, 2024 09:32
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What the gently caress, that looks like a stock Tesla J1772->NACS adapter too, why would you do that instead of just... plugging the adapter in? It's clearly been hosed with, you can see damage to the plastic all around where the white bit meets the black bit. What specifically are you looking for? An adapter in case your Grizzle-E shits itself? A travel unit?
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Feb 12, 2024 09:49
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Elviscat posted:What the gently caress, that looks like a stock Tesla J1772->NACS adapter too, why would you do that instead of just... plugging the adapter in? Yeah, backup travel unit. There's a destination I go to very often and I just want to leave it there. I do have my own travel unit that I'm using (Tesla UMC + TeslaTap) but if I can just leave something there, that would be nice. Was trying to be thrifty 😅
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Feb 12, 2024 09:54
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It sounds like your status quo is your best bet then, honestly, or spring for another Tesla, or buy the cheapest 14-50 EVSE you can find on Amazon, if your destination is well insured. E: I went looking for the cheapest EVSE on Amazon, and I found one that had a light-up cable for ??? Elviscat fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Feb 12, 2024 |
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Feb 12, 2024 10:23
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Shipon posted:It's just super ironic that the state that's most going in on EVs is also the one where most people can't take advantage of the charge-at-home thing because home ownership for anyone under 40 is impossible without an inheritance. this is a generational issue
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Feb 12, 2024 16:20
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LOL, hadn't seen that one. Was thinking Big Altima Energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH2LkFlXGlw priznat posted:Toyota lots around here have amazing numbers of unsold busyforks, the lots around me have more of those available than all their other cars combined. To be fair, the Busyforks is remarkably ugly/stupid-looking.
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Feb 12, 2024 17:28
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I think the constant hype mill of "the next one will go 700 miles" also drags down their current half-rear end offering.
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Feb 12, 2024 17:39
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