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notwithoutmyanus posted:This is about the level of ill conceived Russian propaganda. They don't have to offer anything more credible, so they've slowly lost the ability to produce anything more credible. I am recalling maritime seizure from years and years ago where israeli forces raided ships, then assembled piles of regular tools to take pictures of and claim as scary terrorist weapons of war as validation of the ship raids. Same general principle, same general outcome: only doubted and contradicted by those who ultimately didn't matter to israel's capacity to wage genocide.
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Feb 12, 2024 18:37
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Seyser Koze posted:You literally named a third complicit party yourself: western media uncritically laundering Israeli propaganda. To say nothing of America continuing to supply Israel and run interference for them in the global stage. No, I didn't and I don't care for your inference to make this about the USA.
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Feb 12, 2024 18:49
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Darth Walrus posted:Good, lengthy thread on the IDF's latest round of bullshit, this time about a 'Hamas command centre' under the UNRWA headquarters. Is there a good way to see twitter threads for those of us with no accounts?
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Feb 12, 2024 18:53
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Yawgmoft posted:Is there a good way to see twitter threads for those of us with no accounts? Twiiit seems to work like nitter. Gave me: https://nitter.oksocial.net/MichaKobs
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Feb 12, 2024 19:04
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Kavros posted:They don't have to offer anything more credible, so they've slowly lost the ability to produce anything more credible. Yep, just how it's completely bonkers of them going from "A tiny proportion of UNRWA employees are linked to Khamas" to "There's a major facility under UNRWA HQ" in the space of a few days. Like drat slow your roll there guys, maybe do a little laying of groundwork to bridge the gap so bombing the UN isn't completely insane. But why would they, it's never mattered before.
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Feb 12, 2024 19:07
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notwithoutmyanus posted:No, I didn't and I don't care for your inference to make this about the USA. Tough? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 12, 2024 19:21
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notwithoutmyanus posted:No, I didn't and I don't care for your inference to make this about the USA.
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Feb 12, 2024 19:23
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The genocide would end in a week if the US stopped supplying Israel with munitions.
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Feb 12, 2024 19:40
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonCHI/status/1755425175242220026 I think Joe Biden's administration is full of poo poo whenever they say they're concerned about civilians. They just want to hurt Bibi politically inside Israel but refuse to Diem him.
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Feb 12, 2024 19:46
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Marenghi posted:The genocide would end in a week if the US stopped supplying Israel with munitions. I would agree if you also mean a ban on US manufacturers from exporting to Israel, I doubt withdrawing aid alone would be enough as it's only ~10-20% of the IDF budget at most. Does anyone have any thorough analysis of the IDF's sources of bombs/ammunition? What would it look like if Biden hypothetically banned exports but Bibi wanted to continue the genocide? Do people have estimates of their stocks or alternative sourcing options they might explore? As far as I know it's largely from the US but I also understand they have been building domestic capacity for some time now.
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Feb 12, 2024 19:46
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From a quick check I found this article from December. Al-jazeera relaying a report from the WSJ.https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/us-gives-bunker-buster-bombs-to-israel-for-war-on-gaza-report posted:The WSJ report said a surge of US arms to Israel since the start of the war has included 15,000 bombs and 57,000 155mm artillery shells that have primarily been carried on C-17 military cargo planes. This was my understanding from reporting during this conflict. The US has been shipping vast amounts of artillery and bombs on military cargo planes to Israel which they have been using to bombard Gaza. On top of that they are being supported with intelligence by US and UK planes doing surveillance fly-overs. Israel had ordered tens of thousands of artillery shells from the Israeli based in the UK, Elbit. Not long before the war the US had transferred 300,000 artillery shells they had stored in Israel for their use, to Ukraine to support the war effort there. Also from another source https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/joint-open-letter-transfer-155mm-artillery-shells-israel posted:the IDF fired 8,000 155mm shells during Operation Cast Lead in 2008-9 and 34,000 shells during Operation Protective Edge in 2014. So just going up to December the US had delivered almost 7 times as many shells as used during the entirety of Cast Lead and nearly double what was used in Protective Edge. Not an inconsiderable amount. Definitely seems like enough to warrant Israel seeking a negotiated settlement. Marenghi fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Feb 12, 2024 |
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Feb 12, 2024 19:57
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https://x.com/frances_coppola/status/1757117357439267266?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q Rescuing these two Argentine-Israeli hostages (implicitly as a welcoming present for Javier Milei, who's very pro-Israel) was the justification for the Rafah attack last night. Israel lies about loving everything.
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Feb 12, 2024 20:06
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Darth Walrus posted:https://x.com/frances_coppola/status/1757117357439267266?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q Click through to the times article it doesn't say that Louis Har was released on 28 Nov, it says that part of his extended family was released then and that the original story is about his capture. I don't trust the Times to not edit poo poo like this so I went to the archive and checked and it said that in January also. They updated the old article to reflect his release and the headline is misleading. The tweet you're quoting is wrong. Israel lies about many things but it's important to not make easily disprovable claims like this. Marenghi posted:From a quick check I found this article from December. Al-jazeera relaying a report from the WSJ. Thanks for this. Kagrenak fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Feb 12, 2024 |
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Feb 12, 2024 20:40
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Darth Walrus posted:https://x.com/frances_coppola/status/1757117357439267266?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q Do you believe every tweet you read? This is easily refutable? In November, Gabriela and Mia Leimberg, and Clara Marman were released. This was 3 of the 5 from the family that were taken. These two, are the remaining two that have remained hostages since. You would do well to note that they only released women, and Luis is not. In any case, there is zero reporting from November claiming that Luis Har was released. I know you didn’t check ahead of time so go ahead and look now. You’ll find it was the three above. Can we at least put in a modicum of effort before reposting garbage Twitter takes? Is that too much to ask?
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Feb 12, 2024 20:45
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The Times of Israel did change their article from December to the new headline "RESCUED: Argentine-born Louis Har, grandfather to ten". An easy mistake to make if you weren't to check the archived version.
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Feb 12, 2024 21:00
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The Tweeter did in fact check and post a carefully cropped version of the archived article, they just neglected to mention that it was previously about the guy's family being rescued rather than him.
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Feb 13, 2024 08:20
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Marenghi posted:What expense. Biden gave them the go ahead provided they had a plan in place to minimize casualties. Which is vague AF. They can claim they had a plan as they murder women and children by the 100s. Israel can just point at the Israelis clamoring to drop a nuke on Gaza and say their carpet bombing campaign is minimizing casualties (compared to a nuclear attack). Maybe they're still using their algorithm to designate targets and it just keeps adding more people because it calculates that if Israel killed X of their relatives, they're likely to become anti-Israeli. Every strike adds more potential Hamas fighters, better keep striking until everyone's dead.
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Feb 13, 2024 08:49
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As ever, whether Israel lied about one thing or another is pretty irrelevant to what we know concretely, for sure, indisputably, which is: Israel murdered anywhere from seventy to over 100 people. AS A DIVERSION. I don't care if the two hostages were rescued before. Were rescued. Have never been rescued. Are in fact Martians. Israel murdered anywhere from seventy to over 100 people. AS A DIVERSION.
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Feb 13, 2024 10:16
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Hong XiuQuan posted:As ever, whether Israel lied about one thing or another is pretty irrelevant to what we know concretely, for sure, indisputably, which is: I think expecting posters in D&D to follow the rules and read the sources they’re posting is reasonable. Upon looking at the article soon after that tweet was posted, it was very clear that it had been updated. It stated this (and still does) right underneath that picture (where that tweet was conveniently cropped): quote:Norberto Louis Har was rescued from captivity in Rafah in a daring military operation on February 12, 2024. This is the story of his capture: Kalit fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 10:47
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Kalit posted:I think expecting posters in D&D to follow the rules and read the sources they’re posting is reasonable. Yes, very good, I'm glad we've cleared up that stupid editing on websites leads to minor conspiracy theories. Now that we know the 2 (two) hostages are alive and sipping borscht somewhere, how do we feel about Israel murdering perhaps over a hundred people AS A DIVERSION?
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Feb 13, 2024 12:11
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Israel spends 24 billion USD of its own money on the IDF. “Omg literal BILLIONS” the US sends is a drop in that bucket and Bibi and Friends could happily keep genociding without the USA, despite how everything needs to be about America in some people’s minds E: Israel is the world’s ninth-largest arms exporter fwiw, behind only the US, China, Russia, and a gang of euro states with the top being France. They have home grown weapons manufacturers that make what they need to keep the killing going. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 12:22
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Israel spends 24 billion USD of its own money on the IDF. “Omg literal BILLIONS” the US sends is a drop in that bucket and Bibi and Friends could happily keep genociding without the USA, despite how everything needs to be about America in some people’s minds That money doesn't automatically transform into munitions, as seen when Israel needs 155mm artillery shells from US. Shells that could be sent to Ukraine instead. A country that is actually fighting an existential war. Never mind the protection US gives to Israel in UN to obstruct any real international pathways to curtail the ethnic cleansing Israel is doing. Only way for US policy to change is to bang that drum. Especially US being a two party system where both parties are still very much supporting Israeli policy, it becomes more imperative to make dissenting voices heard. So bang that drum, and loudly.
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Feb 13, 2024 12:29
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The US made sure to park two carrier groups nearby as soon as the fighting started to make sure no-one gets any funny ideas about intervening in support of Palestine. US material guarantees go a lot further than just a breakdown of dollars spent.
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Feb 13, 2024 12:34
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Glah posted:That money doesn't automatically transform into munitions, as seen when Israel needs 155mm artillery shells from US. Shells that could be sent to Ukraine instead. A country that is actually fighting an existential war. Never mind the protection US gives to Israel in UN to obstruct any real international pathways to curtail the ethnic cleansing Israel is doing. Only way for US policy to change is to bang that drum. Especially US being a two party system where both parties are still very much supporting Israeli policy, it becomes more imperative to make dissenting voices heard. So bang that drum, and loudly. Israel doesn’t “need” US shells, they buy them from israeli arms manufacturer Elbit. They bought a poo poo ton several months before 7/10, enough more than the usual supply it made news in Kazakhstan where I am. The US gives it even more bc the US wants to. But Joe Biden cannot snap his fingers and end the murder.
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Feb 13, 2024 12:34
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Israel doesn’t “need” US shells, they buy them from israeli arms manufacturer Elbit. They bought a poo poo ton several months before 7/10, enough more than the usual supply it made news in Kazakhstan where I am. Sending tens of thousands of 155mm artillery shells to Israel (similar amount that Elbit is able to produce in a year) absolutely enables Israel to shell Gaza more. Whole western munitions production with them is capped at the moment thanks to war in Ukraine, shells that Ukraine sorely needs. Maybe Joe Biden cannot snap his fingers and end the murder but at least he could not facilitate it or actively protect Israel in UN. And bringing up this fact is good and needed thing. Implying that criticizing US for this is just an example irrational anti-americanism where people can't get US out of their heads is pretty drat laughable.
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Feb 13, 2024 12:51
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What if this massakre is still going on in august? Will Biden try to actually presserende Bibi then? Or will his zionism conquer his desire for reelection?
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Feb 13, 2024 13:18
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Glah posted:Sending tens of thousands of 155mm artillery shells to Israel (similar amount that Elbit is able to produce in a year) absolutely enables Israel to shell Gaza more. Whole western munitions production with them is capped at the moment thanks to war in Ukraine, shells that Ukraine sorely needs. Maybe Joe Biden cannot snap his fingers and end the murder but at least he could not facilitate it or actively protect Israel in UN. And bringing up this fact is good and needed thing. Yeah, any 155 shell going to Israel is a shell not going to fight the actual anti-imperialist war, imo.
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Feb 13, 2024 13:22
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Israel spends 24 billion USD of its own money on the IDF. “Omg literal BILLIONS” the US sends is a drop in that bucket and Bibi and Friends could happily keep genociding without the USA, despite how everything needs to be about America in some people’s minds This post is utterly bizarre. Subsidizing 15% of the IDFs budget on a yearly basis is not "a drop in the bucket" and that ignores the handouts the United States gives to Israel every time they decide to take a little excursion in Gaza. It also ignores the other security guarantees the US provides that prevent other countries in the region from intervening, the fact that Israel's domestic arms industry relies on inputs from the United States that should rightly be denied under currently existing anti terrorism laws, etc.
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Feb 13, 2024 13:54
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Just because Israel's defense industry has a large market cap doesn't mean they actually have the means to mass produce munitions. The majority of the stuff they actually produce is fancy software and surveillance systems. They absolutely do not have the capacity to keep their tanks firing without the US.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:12
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Israel spends 24 billion USD of its own money on the IDF. “Omg literal BILLIONS” the US sends is a drop in that bucket and Bibi and Friends could happily keep genociding without the USA, despite how everything needs to be about America in some people’s minds OK, but none of this washes America's hands of the blood of its involvement in the genocide. That Israel COULD carry on without US munitions & arms doesn't mean it doesn't matter that America is still supplying them. Because it would mean more than just the guns & ammo, it'd mean Israel's closest ally is actually reconsidering it's policy of sticking it's hands in its ears & singing "la-la-la I can't hear you" about Israel's war crimes. This is diplomatically significant if nothing else, & It's unlikely it would be accompanied by nothing else, be it the sort of financial sanctions that are on the Russian leadership being applied to Bibi & his allies or whatever else. Extremely bizarre to just try & handwave away 15% of the IDF's budget, as if Israel wouldn't have to find that from elsewhere, in turn potentially requiring Israel to take funding from elsewhere in the budget to maintain their genocidal war machine, & actually potentially having somewhat of an impact on the Israeli citizens who keep electing a bunch of genocidal maniacs as their political representatives.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:19
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The war in Ukraine has pretty confidently established that on-paper GDP does not correlate to raw manufacturing power. Israel makes plenty of money off of selling subsidized tech and training, but that doesn't translate to the mass production of shells, bombs, and aircraft parts. Not having the US available as a source for those would be a massive blow to Israel's death machine.
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Feb 13, 2024 14:25
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punishedkissinger posted:Just because Israel's defense industry has a large market cap doesn't mean they actually have the means to mass produce munitions. The majority of the stuff they actually produce is fancy software and surveillance systems. They absolutely do not have the capacity to keep their tanks firing without the US. Got any sources for this claim? I feel like I always see it repeated but have never seen any actual data about tank weapons that Israel is going through, how much they currently have, and how many they do/could buy from other countries And it also ignores that Israel could go the nuclear route if they stopped caring about their own residents Kalit fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 14:29
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Israel spends 24 billion USD of its own money on the IDF. “Omg literal BILLIONS” the US sends is a drop in that bucket and Bibi and Friends could happily keep genociding without the USA, despite how everything needs to be about America in some people’s minds Hi there. The US recently approved about $17bn military aid for Israel which just so happens to be a match with the overall cost of this war and is near enough Israel's entire annual defence budget for a year. It's extraordinary to think that this, or the >$3.3bn annual military aid, or the other aid, or other forms of aid via various means constitutes 'a drop in the bucket'. Kalit posted:Got any sources for this claim? I feel like I always see it repeated but have never seen any actual data about tank weapons that Israel is going through, how much they currently have, and how many they do/could buy from other countries It's not common for the US to bypass congress to deliver emergency sets of tank shells for an ally who doesn't need them. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/09/biden-administration-emergency-authority-tank-shells-israel Easy to find sources for this. Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 14:49
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Hong XiuQuan posted:Hi there. The US recently approved about $17bn military aid for Israel which just so happens to be a match with the overall cost of this war and is near enough Israel's entire annual defence budget for a year. First of all, that $17bn didn’t get approved. It got soundly rejected and had no chance of passing: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...9f-cfffec3b0000 And for your response to me, that “source” doesn’t say anything about Israel running out of tank weapons if Biden hadn’t sold them Kalit fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 14:58
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Kalit posted:First of all, that $17bn didn’t get approved. It got soundly rejected and had no chance of passing: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...9f-cfffec3b0000 $14 billion in aid just passed the Senate last night and Democrats are considering a discharge petition to get around Speaker Johnson's lack of desire to bring the bill to the floor. Quit being a weirdo
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Feb 13, 2024 15:12
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Kalit posted:First of all, that $17bn didn’t get approved. It got soundly rejected and had no chance of passing: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...9f-cfffec3b0000 you have to be the dumbest motherfucker in this thread (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 13, 2024 15:14
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Kalit posted:First of all, that $17bn didn’t get approved. It got soundly rejected and had no chance of passing: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...9f-cfffec3b0000 Why do you think the US is supplying Israel with thousands of tank rounds if it didn't need them? e:  I don't get the urge for people to say 'Israel really doesn't need all this money and weapons it keeps saying it needs' Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 15:58
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This FT article covers both "who makes Israeli weapons which cause large scale damage" (hint it's the US) and "be horrified at Israel's genocide" at the same time. I hadn't seen the statistics comparing the extent of building destruction to that of German cities in WW2. https://www.ft.com/content/7b407c2e-8149-4d83-be01-72dcae8aee7b There's some movement to produce munitions domestically but the intensity would likely scale back dramatically if we banned exports: https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2024/01/04/israel_signals_self-reliance_for_weapons_1002676.html This link's description of Israel's genocide campaign is pretty gross and brushes aside any ethics or moral reasoning, as a heads up. I guess one should expect something written by a former defense professional to read such. Hong XiuQuan posted:I don't get the urge for people to say 'Israel really doesn't need all this money and weapons it keeps saying it needs' Imo one of the most obnoxious parts of it is they probably don't need the money and could pay for it all, we just want to protect them from even suffering that economic pain. Not that that would make it much better but it's just another slap in the face. The urge probably comes from a place of feeling hopeless to stop the country from supplying them, so it's comforting to imagine that it wouldn't make much difference either way. Kagrenak fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 16:01
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rscott posted:$14 billion in aid just passed the Senate last night and Democrats are considering a discharge petition to get around Speaker Johnson's lack of desire to bring the bill to the floor. Quit being a weirdo It also explicitly bans the US from funding UNRWA, something that will lead to even more mass starvation and disease outbreaks than we’ve already seen. Joe Biden is not some loving powerless bystander, things like this could not happen, and this war could not continue, without his full throated support. Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 16:03
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Hong XiuQuan posted:Why do you think the US is supplying Israel with thousands of tank rounds if it didn't need them? Israel running out of tank weapons and Israel wanting to have a large stockpile in case of shortages/US stops supplying them/escalation of war if someone decides to invade them/etc are very different
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Feb 13, 2024 16:09
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