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Croccers posted:A sound based puzzle where you have to guess which people poo poo their pants based on the fart.wav Shitten the sequel to Pissed
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Feb 13, 2024 17:18
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kazil posted:Shitten the sequel to Pissed
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Feb 13, 2024 17:20
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Tunicate posted:Sound based puzzles are all trash and Yes that includes the ones in myst The worst one I ever encountered (I guess not so much sound based as "breath" based) was in Spirit Tracks. I guess I suck at blowing (  ) because it was really hard for me to do those stupid fuckin' pan flutes puzzles/songs.
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Feb 13, 2024 17:20
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Croccers posted:The Shitness no thanks, just play the parody game The Pooper
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Feb 13, 2024 17:21
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kazil posted:Shitten the sequel to Pissed It's spelled Pyst tyvm
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Feb 13, 2024 17:50
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DontMockMySmock posted:afaik they have not been addressed at all. I have several complaints about the Witness but I agree that accessibility is the #1 biggest problem with the game. I have a friend who I showed the game to he was like "hell yeah that looks cool as poo poo except i can't tell any of those colors apart, is there a colorblind mode?" noooope In an interview around the time of release Blow was talking about wanting to include accessibility options but seemed at a loss for how they could be implemented for the problem areas. His main example was the sound puzzles, the entire point being that you have to observe the environment and realize that the puzzle corresponds to the birds chirping and subsequent noises. You could add subtitles but how do you do that without just writing something like "high pitch, medium pitch, low pitch" and giving away the answer? The color part you're referencing seems even worse, you could add in the standard colorblind filters but I'm guessing doing so would fundamentally alter how those colors mix and make everything unsolvable. Not sure how you would go about applying accessibility concerns to something like that besides just stripping it out of the game entirely.
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Feb 13, 2024 18:31
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RE4 Remake It's a PS4 version issue but I swear Leon's eyebrows are so faint that I can barely notice them so it just looks like he has that massive caveman brow. Also you can't swap shoulders while you aim which is something that never feels great on the rare occasion I'm picking up a Third person shooter.
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Feb 13, 2024 18:42
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Snake Maze posted:I was responding to this: Buying the game financially supports Blow, who has made it clear he's a lovely dude. It's not that complicated.
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Feb 13, 2024 19:29
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What did he do? His Wikipedia article doesn't say much and I can't be bothered to look any further.
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Feb 13, 2024 19:34
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:In an interview around the time of release Blow was talking about wanting to include accessibility options but seemed at a loss for how they could be implemented for the problem areas. His main example was the sound puzzles, the entire point being that you have to observe the environment and realize that the puzzle corresponds to the birds chirping and subsequent noises. You could add subtitles but how do you do that without just writing something like "high pitch, medium pitch, low pitch" and giving away the answer? The color part you're referencing seems even worse, you could add in the standard colorblind filters but I'm guessing doing so would fundamentally alter how those colors mix and make everything unsolvable. Not sure how you would go about applying accessibility concerns to something like that besides just stripping it out of the game entirely. There are some possible ways, though I imagine in Blow's eyes they may 'compromise' the puzzle or purists may think it makes it too easy or something. For the bird one, for example, you could use a combination of super-, sub-, and regular script in the captions, for example. What this would require is putting bird noises or other ambient sounds in the captions so that suddenly seeing bird chirps in the subtitles doesn't seem odd (but if you look closely and see that some are higher and lower than others, you'd notice it was different). Would it make it easier? Maybe. Who cares. I feel like as a player, once you know the path to the solution, implementing it should be easy or quick. As for the color one, yeah I don't know. Would either need a way to skip them entirely, or implement a complex shader system where certain colors apply certain patterns to what they hit - the red areas, for example, would have horizontal lines across them, and the blue ones would have vertical lines. Therefore, the purple areas would have a crosshatch of vertical and horizontal lines across them. I don't remember the details of the puzzle though.
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Feb 13, 2024 19:35
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For the color-based puzzles, it is as simple as adding symbols for each puzzle that differentiate the colors. Like, for example, if a puzzle has red squares and green squares, put a little * in the red squares and a little # in the green squares. problem solved. You don't need a shader system - just, in any given moment, indicate which colors are the same and which ones are different. Where someone with normal color vision is supposed to, for example, notice that a color-tinted window is changing how colors appear when looking through the glass, for a colorblind person it becomes noticing that the window is changing what symbols appear when looking through the glass. Does that make the puzzle too obvious? Maybe Blow thinks so, but it makes the puzzle accessible, so who gives a poo poo?
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Feb 13, 2024 22:04
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The sound and colour puzzles were (broadly speaking) the worst puzzle themes in the game anyway and giving them another pass with an eye to accessibility might also make them better for everyone.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:18
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DontMockMySmock posted:For the color-based puzzles, it is as simple as adding symbols for each puzzle that differentiate the colors. Like, for example, if a puzzle has red squares and green squares, put a little * in the red squares and a little # in the green squares. problem solved. You don't need a shader system - just, in any given moment, indicate which colors are the same and which ones are different. By the end of the area you need to (spoilers for an 8 year old puzzle?) be able to predict what the board will look like under different color conditions - an elevator goes up through floors with different lighting and you solve the same board in different ways depending on what the colors on the board look like under the current light. Except, oh no, the wire for the penultimate floor is broken and you can’t actually take the elevator up! You have to just look up, see what the color of light is up there, and figure out what the puzzle should look like under that light so you can solve it. How do you translate that to symbols? It’s a nontrivial problem to solve. And it’s worth noting that the color and sound puzzles are optional if you’re not trying to 100% the game, you only need 7 out of 12 areas or something like that.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:27
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An Actual Princess posted:the witness is dogshit and thinks it's way more clever than it is. boring trash. bin it I'm gonna bin YOU motherfucker (doesn't get up from chair or change expression)
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Feb 13, 2024 22:30
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What I think the ending video of The Witness was intended to make me think: There are circles everywhere... the world is an environment. I'm permanently changed by this game. Wow What the ending video of The Witness actually made me think: Haha, the player character gave himself brain damage from being stuck in a video game. Oh god, is he being profound? I haven't played Hypnospace Outlaw in four years and I still catch myself shaking my mouse to make webpages load faster. That's stupid, but it did in fact affect me in the way The Witness failed to.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:31
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Snake Maze posted:By the end of the area you need to (spoilers for an 8 year old puzzle?) be able to predict what the board will look like under different color conditions - an elevator goes up through floors with different lighting and you solve the same board in different ways depending on what the colors on the board look like under the current light. Except, oh no, the wire for the penultimate floor is broken and you can’t actually take the elevator up! You have to just look up, see what the color of light is up there, and figure out what the puzzle should look like under that light so you can solve it. How do you translate that to symbols? That puzzle is solvable in two more different ways. First, if you simply note which groups of squares are different from one another under different lighting, you can deduce which symbols have the potential to be different under any given light, i.e. which ones have different pigment. Solving the puzzle separating all of those, you get the final solution that takes you straight to the top. Second, an exact copy of the puzzle exists in the ground floor of the building; if you notice this and copy that solution over, it again takes you straight to the top. All that is required to make those solutions work is that the player knows which colors are different at any given moment - you do not need to understand color-mixing necessarily. Color-based puzzles are absolutely not optional, by the way. That area we're talking about is technically optional if you're willing to not have access to a huge chunk of the game's content, but differentiating color is important all over the island, including during the final gauntlet that leads to the normal, non-100% ending of the game.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:35
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Snake Maze posted:How do you translate that to symbols? Have the symbols for the colors inscribed on the lights/ceiling on each floor or have the light making the symbol on the wall of the elevator shaft?
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Feb 13, 2024 22:35
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Croccers posted:A sound based puzzle where you have to guess which people poo poo their pants based on the fart.wav Shitman: Code name farty-seven
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Feb 13, 2024 22:38
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Hedgehog Pie posted:What did he do? His Wikipedia article doesn't say much and I can't be bothered to look any further. All I know about Blow is he started crying in an interview because people who liked Braid didn't 'get' the message, intercut with footage Souja Boy happily playing Braid and talking how cool the game is with unspoiled joy in his heart. Not a big fan of Jon Blows philosophy of game design, but I'll treasure the man for that moment.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:40
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Was it Blow who kept saying for months after the game came out that no one understood the deeper message behind the game all while everyone was saying "It's a metaphor for the pursuit of the atomic bomb, isn't it?" and then he eventually admitted that's all the deeper message was?
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Feb 13, 2024 22:45
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Randalor posted:Have the symbols for the colors inscribed on the lights/ceiling on each floor or have the light making the symbol on the wall of the elevator shaft? “This tile was ~ under € light, but it looked like % under ¥ light. What will it look like under # light?” is a very different puzzle. It would take more than just adding symbols around to make the area really work without colors, and while I’m sure it’s not impossible it’s definitely not easy.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:49
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I think modern games are generally really good at serving people with disabilities like color blindness, but also things like motor control issues where you can disable QTEs and stuff. That said, I think there's also a point where it becomes too impractical, convoluted (like The Witness discussed above) or just impossible to do so. It sucks, but that's just reality. I think every developer should do as much as they can, but also you can't blame The Witness for having puzzles that are impossible for some people. The alternative would be to just not have certain types of content because some people wouldn't be able to experience it. You can absolutely blame The Witness for not having the option to skip that content, though, especially because it gates more content that's no problem for colorblind people.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:49
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Randalor posted:Was it Blow who kept saying for months after the game came out that no one understood the deeper message behind the game all while everyone was saying "It's a metaphor for the pursuit of the atomic bomb, isn't it?" and then he eventually admitted that's all the deeper message was? The theme is basically about obsession and how it's bad, hidden behind an ending that is deliberately absurdly tedious to unlock. There's something about the atomic bomb in there too, but it's mostly about how obsession can lead to isolation. I'm not clever enough to do a full writeup, but that theme is a big part of what makes the Soulja Boy clip so funny. Soulja Boy, surrounded by freinds having fun with the game, immediate cut to Jonathan Blow crying because his wildly successful indie game isn't being praised just how he wants it to be. There's a bizarre irony to it.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:51
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DontMockMySmock posted:Does that make the puzzle too obvious? Maybe Blow thinks so, but it makes the puzzle accessible, so who gives a poo poo? It sounds like "what is the puzzle" was the first puzzle that needed to be solved, so I kinda get it, but not overly. I bounced hard off of The Witness because it seemed impenetrable, whereas I was strongly addicted to Baba Is You until I'd 100%ed it, not least because the main objective was always clear, even if the way to get there was not. There is really only one time in Baba that it does the "what even IS the puzzle???" puzzle, and it's to unlock the second half of the game.
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Feb 13, 2024 22:53
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Snake Maze posted:By the end of the area you need to (spoilers for an 8 year old puzzle?) be able to predict what the board will look like under different color conditions - an elevator goes up through floors with different lighting and you solve the same board in different ways depending on what the colors on the board look like under the current light. Except, oh no, the wire for the penultimate floor is broken and you can’t actually take the elevator up! You have to just look up, see what the color of light is up there, and figure out what the puzzle should look like under that light so you can solve it. How do you translate that to symbols?
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Feb 14, 2024 00:19
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Muscle Tracer posted:There is really only one time in Baba that it does the "what even IS the puzzle???" puzzle, and it's to unlock the second half of the game. That was such an awesome game, even if I sucked at it
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Feb 14, 2024 00:24
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big mean giraffe posted:That was such an awesome game, even if I sucked at it "Was" implies you at least beat it. Still top of my aspirational list of games to finish, I go back to it any time my main computer dies and I have to revert to my toaster of a laptop which can't handle much else. Even without finishing it I'd probably rank it as the best puzzle game, others like The Witness/Talos Principle/Portal are excellent but the mechanics are too limited to really hit the same level of genius puzzle design that Baba hits over and over.
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Feb 14, 2024 00:44
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If you liked Baba, play Patrick's Parabox. Very similiar aesthetic and vibe, although a much more focused and less variable ruleset.
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Feb 14, 2024 02:08
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Had my eye on it for a while, I'll add it to my Steam wishlist. COCOON was an enjoyable take on a puzzle game based around nested worlds but it was very short and trivially easy. Don't think there was anything over like a 3/10 in terms of difficulty for its whole run, just from the trailer Parabox looks like there's a lot more to it.
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Feb 14, 2024 02:20
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Mobile suit baba was way too hard for me
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Feb 14, 2024 10:36
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Baba Is You is great but feels overoptimized against zealous playtesters, with multiple puzzles where it's like the first, second and third most obvious solutions have been deliberately blocked.
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Feb 14, 2024 18:08
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Muscle Tracer posted:If you liked Baba, play Patrick's Parabox. Very similiar aesthetic and vibe, although a much more focused and less variable ruleset. seconding this, great game
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Feb 14, 2024 18:32
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I'm starting to resent hollow knight because no one will shut up about silksong.
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Feb 14, 2024 19:00
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Hedgehog Pie posted:What did he do? His Wikipedia article doesn't say much and I can't be bothered to look any further. Made some very intelligent tweets about how women aren't biologically predisposed towards programming  and some poo poo about vaccines/Covid, IIRC. On top of being a hilariously pompous jackass at a baseline.
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Feb 14, 2024 23:08
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Muscle Tracer posted:It sounds like "what is the puzzle" was the first puzzle that needed to be solved, so I kinda get it, but not overly. I play Baba is You in fits and spurts with months of putting it down in frustration in between, and I genuinely do not remember if I’ve gotten to that/figured it out or not.
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Feb 15, 2024 00:59
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Rockman Reserve posted:I play Baba is You in fits and spurts with months of putting it down in frustration in between, and I genuinely do not remember if I’ve gotten to that/figured it out or not. Hint: There are two levels with a block called "LEVEL." You can do something cool with those.
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Feb 15, 2024 01:04
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General shout-out to a thing dragging many games down, which is not letting me rebind controls. I know this is a relatively recent thing, but when I play older games it often bugs me. Right now I'm playing War of the Monsters, a gem of my youth, and one of the three preset control schemes is one of the most buck-wild things I've ever seen. On the one hand, it's pretty progressive for a fighting game from 2003 to have attacks on the shoulder buttons. On the other, this control scheme doesn't use ANY of the face buttons, but it does map block and "action" (something you will be pressing CONSTANTLY to pick up debris and climb buildings) to L3 and R3, before those were even the accepted names of pressing in the sticks.
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Feb 15, 2024 04:34
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Muscle Tracer posted:attacks on the shoulder buttons This is what is dragging current games down.
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Feb 15, 2024 04:50
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Muscle Tracer posted:General shout-out to a thing dragging many games down, which is not letting me rebind controls. I know this is a relatively recent thing, but when I play older games it often bugs me. Right now I'm playing War of the Monsters, a gem of my youth, and one of the three preset control schemes is one of the most buck-wild things I've ever seen. This is so insane that I have to imagine there's a story of some kind. A bet to make a control scheme without using a face button? A setup for someone with an incredibly specific disability where they could still hit R3 but nothing else on that side of the controller? 
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Feb 15, 2024 10:41
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credburn posted:This is what is dragging current games down.
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Feb 15, 2024 10:53
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