[Biosphere Collapse] 420 days of blazin' it

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(Thread IKs: Stereotype)

Confusedslight: Jan 9, 2020

The only song this thread should be listening to is the fire song that gets posted here every so often on repeat 24/7

# ? Feb 14, 2024 07:35

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# ? May 25, 2024 12:52

Fozzy The Bear: Dec 11, 1999; Nothing much, watching the game, drinking a bud

Salt Fish posted:

In king country I feel like 90% of people now have backpacks or cloth bags idk seems like its working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eosdBiaq8Fk

# ? Feb 14, 2024 07:37

kyojin: Jun 15, 2005; I MASHED THE KEYS AND LOOK WHAT I MADE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4LZBYqHYcQ

# ? Feb 14, 2024 07:48

Dokapon Findom: Dec 5, 2022; They hated Futanari because His posts were shit.

unwantedplatypus posted:

I mean, yes, extrapolating animal exponential growth and resource exhaustion onto human populations is literally what Thomas Malthus did. Believing that science and culture cannot moderate this inherent animal nature of human beings is a key part of the concept.

We do have examples of what human society can look like in the context of resource scarcity with devastating consequences for over-harvesting. It's probably not hard-coded in our DNA to be like this. Unfortunately we'll probably have to experience gigadeath events before anything changes.

This seems like a very untidy way of saying "actually that's not how it is" in the face of it absolutely being that way

# ? Feb 14, 2024 10:25

Dokapon Findom: Dec 5, 2022; They hated Futanari because His posts were shit.

Imagine thinking tragedy of the commons would disappear if simply capitalism were done away with. Have you met any person ever

# ? Feb 14, 2024 10:28

AceClown: Sep 11, 2005

the problem isn't plastic bags

https://www.nj.com/news/2022/08/customer-are-stealing-all-the-shopping-baskets-instead-of-buying-bags-nj-supermarkets-say.html

https://www.core77.com/posts/116762/Following-Plastic-Bag-Bans-American-Customers-Steal-Shopping-Baskets

as had been said in thread countless times, the problem is that humans will simply not accept any reduction in the sheer convenience that modern living affords us.

# ? Feb 14, 2024 11:04

MightyBigMinus: Jan 26, 2020

one neat thing about the way news/google-seo/ad-rates played out for the last 20 years is that there is a url/article to support literally any and every possible argument. got an opinion? there's an article to support it! everything is true and nothing is real.

# ? Feb 14, 2024 15:04

Pink Mist: Sep 28, 2021

front page story on geoengineering from the wsj today. that was faster than i expected.

https://www.wsj.com/science/environment/geoengineering-projects-cool-planet-weather-f0619bf7

they compare dumping chemicals into the ocean to taking a tums

Pink Mist has issued a correction as of 16:27 on Feb 14, 2024

# ? Feb 14, 2024 16:24

mags: May 30, 2008; I am a congenital optimist.

kyojin posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4LZBYqHYcQ

love this band

# ? Feb 14, 2024 16:31

OIL PANIC: Dec 22, 2022; CAUTIONS
_{_{...

4. ... (If the battery is exhausted, the display of the liquid crystal will become vague and difficult to look at.)

...

7. Do not use volatile oils such as thinner or benzine and alcohol for wiping.}}

Pink Mist posted:

front page story on geoengineering from the wsj today. that was faster than i expected.

https://www.wsj.com/science/environment/geoengineering-projects-cool-planet-weather-f0619bf7

they compare dumping chemicals into the ocean to taking a tums

lol, it really is just like the situation vis a vis healthcare in the us; zero efforts at prevention, gaslighting from authorities that there�s even anything wrong with you, blaming the individual, and then extreme interventions to treat the symptoms while ignoring the causes rooted in external factors

# ? Feb 14, 2024 16:48

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

MightyBigMinus posted:

one neat thing about the way news/google-seo/ad-rates played out for the last 20 years is that there is a url/article to support literally any and every possible argument. got an opinion? there's an article to support it! everything is true and nothing is real.

Sounds interesting, got a link?

# ? Feb 14, 2024 16:51

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

sorry about your tumwater
PFAS in Washington�s well water could make you sick

crosscut.com posted:

PFAS, or per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances, are a class of water-resistant human-made chemicals used in a wide variety of products from rain jackets to Teflon pans to firefighting foam. These so-called �forever chemicals� don�t break down easily in the environment and have been found to have negative health impacts that include higher cholesterol, decreased immune response, thyroid disease and increased risks of kidney and testicular cancer.

It�s a nationwide problem � a U.S. Geological Survey report in 2023 estimated that nearly half of the nation�s drinking water may contain PFAS. Even some Washington state water systems with a reputation for high-quality water aren�t immune.

�I�ve been spoiled,� said Paul Grant, a resident of the Lazy Acres neighborhood in Tumwater, which is served by Thurston PUD, noting his water has always �tasted great.� In 2021, tests revealed that two wells serving 94 households in the community were over the state�s acceptable levels for PFAS. �I�m definitely concerned,� Grant said, noting that he temporarily switched to bottled water and is talking to his landlord about installing a filtration system.

According to the latest data from the Washington State Department of Health, 30 public water utility sites across the state currently contain PFAS over the state action level, which requires utilities to create plans to remove or treat the source if possible.The state regulates five PFAS chemicals, and the two most common, PFOA and PFOS, are limited to 10 parts per trillion and 15 parts per trillion respectively � equivalent to less than a drop of water in an Olympic-sized swimming pool.

Tumwater falls and the former Olympia Brewing plant, which closed its doors in 2003. The beer built its reputation on the region's artesian springs, using the tagline "It's the Water." But in the past several years, some water sources in the area have been found to be contaminated with PFAS, once-common chemicals that don't easily break down, can travel long distances from their source, and have been shown to cause negative health effects. (Andy Engelson for Crosscut)

Barry Rogowski, toxics cleanup manager for the Washington State Department of Ecology, said the challenge of addressing PFAS contamination statewide is equal to the scale of widespread solvent contamination from dry-cleaning shops and industrial sites in the 1990s. �This is as significant as anything that we�ve seen in the last 30 years,� Rogowski said. �The problem with PFAS is they travel very rapidly, and in great distance in groundwater � much more so than some other compounds like gasoline or solvents.� PFAS chemicals were used extensively because they�re so slippery and water-repellent � properties that made them great for Gore-Tex jackets but unfortunately also make them widespread and difficult to clean up.

The federal Environmental Protection Agency is in the process of issuing regulations on PFAS. In early February, the EPA designated nine PFAS compounds as �hazardous constituents,� a step toward declaring them hazardous chemicals requiring cleanup nationwide. Many state officials expect that the EPA will set a stricter limit than Washington�s � at four parts per trillion � meaning that an additional 300 public drinking-water sources in the state that have PFAS above that level may also need to be addressed.

The chemicals, used in everything from dental floss to food packaging, tend to accumulate and not leave the human body. A study published in 2015 found that PFAS exist in the blood of 97 percent of Americans. In 2022, the state Legislature passed a law phasing out the use of PFAS in many consumer products by 2025.

This bioaccumulation is why the EPA is expected to set the allowable levels so low, said Sophia Petro, a water-quality program manager for the Washington State Department of Health. �[EPA] considers both PFOA and PFOS to be carcinogens and basically will set the maximum contaminant level goal at zero,� Petro said.

Water utilities face an expensive task ahead when they discover PFAS. Remedies include taking a well offline, filtering water with one of two costly processes, or diluting with water from other sources.

Rogowski said that the Legislature in its 2023 budget funded a study tasking Ecology and the Department of Health with estimating what it will cost statewide to address the problem. That report is due at the end of 2024. �This is a very large problem,� he said. �It�s extensive and widespread, and has significant impacts, particularly on drinking water � billions of dollars for filter systems, and then long-term cleanup costs.�

The federal Environmental Protection Agency is in the process of issuing regulations on PFAS. In early February, the EPA designated nine PFAS compounds as �hazardous constituents,� a step toward declaring them hazardous chemicals requiring cleanup nationwide. Many state officials expect that the EPA will set a stricter limit than Washington�s � at four parts per trillion � meaning that an additional 300 public drinking-water sources in the state that have PFAS above that level may also need to be addressed.

The chemicals, used in everything from dental floss to food packaging, tend to accumulate and not leave the human body. A study published in 2015 found that PFAS exist in the blood of 97 percent of Americans. In 2022, the state Legislature passed a law phasing out the use of PFAS in many consumer products by 2025.

This bioaccumulation is why the EPA is expected to set the allowable levels so low, said Sophia Petro, a water-quality program manager for the Washington State Department of Health. �[EPA] considers both PFOA and PFOS to be carcinogens and basically will set the maximum contaminant level goal at zero,� Petro said.

Water utilities face an expensive task ahead when they discover PFAS. Remedies include taking a well offline, filtering water with one of two costly processes, or diluting with water from other sources.

Rogowski said that the Legislature in its 2023 budget funded a study tasking Ecology and the Department of Health with estimating what it will cost statewide to address the problem. That report is due at the end of 2024. �This is a very large problem,� he said. �It�s extensive and widespread, and has significant impacts, particularly on drinking water � billions of dollars for filter systems, and then long-term cleanup costs.�

A Washington Department of Ecology test well in the Lazy Acres neighborhood in Tumwater. Statewide, more than 300 water sources contain some amount of PFAS, a series of ubiquitous chemicals that have been shown to cause negative health effects, including decreased immune response, thyroid disease, and a higher risk of several types of cancers. Treating and remediating these water sources could cost the state more than $1 billion. (Andy Engelson for Crosscut)

High-profile contamination sites near military facilities in Washington have garnered the most attention so far � in part because sites such as the Yakima Training Center, the Whidbey Island Naval Air Station, Joint Base Lewis McChord and Fairchild Air Force Base near Spokane were all known to use large quantities of firefighting foam containing PFAS in training exercises. The Department of Ecology is working to identify those sources and pressure the military to pay for treatment and cleanup.

But as other sites are discovered, the sources of PFAS often aren�t as easy to track down, especially because the slippery substances can travel far �� sometimes evaporating and falling back to earth in rain.

### In Vancouver, remediation could total $235M

Vancouver, Washington�s water system is the third-largest in the state, serving nearly 280,000 customers. In late 2020, before the state Department of Ecology had finalized its PFAS action levels, the city of Vancouver decided to be proactive and test its wells � the city relies exclusively on groundwater from three aquifers as the source of its drinking water.

No PFAS chemicals had been detected during tests in 2013, so Tyler Clary, Vancouver�s water engineering program manager, was shocked to discover that five of the city�s nine water stations had concentrations of PFAS above the state action level � and three additional stations were above the expected EPA level.��

�It was like � oh crap, what are we going to do?� Clary said. �How big of an issue is this? What levels are a health concern, because it�s an ever-evolving science. We really had to educate ourselves on the subject. And then try to address it and work toward a solution.�

Each of the nine water stations in Vancouver draws on a variety of wells, so in the short term, Clary said, Vancouver is attempting to dilute the most polluted sources with water from wells that have no PFAS or at least lower concentrations. �We try to keep the ones with higher concentrations offline as much as possible,� Clary said.

The city has worked with the Department of Health and Clark County Public Health to alert affected residents and recommend options that include buying bottled water or installing filtration systems. Pregnant people and infants who are breastfeeding or on formula are most at risk, DOH says on its website.

In December, the city of Vancouver developed a three-year treatment plan, which will employ two technologies at various sites to treat contaminated water: granular activated carbon (which absorbs PFAS) and ion exchange (in which PFAS is pulled from water and replaced with a different ion). The city also plans to drill deeper wells at two sites.

Clary said the city estimates it will cost $235 million to install the equipment needed to remove PFAS from its drinking water and an additional $1.5 million each year to maintain the filtration systems.

How Vancouver will pay for these upgrades is an open question. The city received a $12.7 million grant from the Washington State Water Revolving Fund (a pot of money that�s a mix of state and federal dollars for drinking-water projects) that will allow the city to install treatment equipment at one site with the highest PFAS concentrations � 18.6 parts per trillion, slightly over the state limit of 15 ppt.

Last May, the state Attorney General�s Office filed a lawsuit against 20 PFAS manufacturers, including 3M and DuPont, to help pay for the state�s efforts to fix its contaminated water systems. In response to separate national class action suits, DuPont and two other manufacturers of PFAS agreed in June to a $1.3 billion settlement, and in August 3M agreed to a $10.3 billion settlement.

While those settlements are significant, more money will be needed.

Rogowski said that Ecology likely needs a dozen more staff members just to tackle the complex task of determining sources of PFAS and who should pay for cleanup. �We have a pretty high number of attorneys in the Attorney General's Office that support the cleanup program,� he said, noting that determining who�s at fault will be tricky. �Maybe multiple people contributed to contamination on a site and you�ve got to sort out who owes what,� he said.

In December, the Biden administration announced it is designating $10 billion from the 2021 Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill for PFAS removal, much of it to be available as grants to states and tribal entities.

Clary said that although the city of Vancouver has been working with a consultant for three years attempting to locate the sources of PFAS in the city�s water system, they haven�t found an obvious culprit. �It�s very widespread at really low concentrations and we haven�t been able to pinpoint even one specific source.�

Determining sources of contamination may be a tricky undertaking, and according to Rebecca Lawson, toxics cleanup manager for the Department of Ecology�s southwest region (which includes both Tumwater and Vancouver), her office isn�t currently able to conduct these complex investigations. �Typically, the way we approach cleanup sites, we're aware of contamination and we try to look for a liable party,� Lawson said, noting there�s no clear culprit for contamination at either Lazy Acres or Vancouver.

�I don't have the staff or the financial resources just to jump out and start doing a bunch of investigations,� she said, �I don�t have enough to deal with what we have on our plates already.�

### At Lazy Acres, concerns about what�s next

In late 2021, just before state regulations on PFAS went into effect, Thurston PUD found levels of PFOS at the two wells in Lazy Acres over the state limit of 15 ppt, said general manager John Weidenfeller. He said measurements since that time have averaged 18 ppt, slightly over the state action level.

Thurston PUD, which provides water to about 10,000 households in Thurston and five other counties, notified the 94 affected homes in Lazy Acres about the contamination.

Paul Grant, who�s retired and has lived in the neighborhood for two and a half years, said he�s been receiving updates from Thurston PUD every month or two. Troubled, Grant said he had a long phone call with customer service at the utility: �And I was like, OK, but what happens next?�

Weidenfeller said that in the short term, Thurston PUD has applied for a grant from the state to install filtration systems at the two wells in Lazy Acres, which he estimates will cost more than $500,000 � a significant cost for a system serving a little over 200 people.

It�s a frustrating development, says Kim Gubbe, Thurston PUD�s director of field operations, especially since Lazy Acres won an award in 2009 from Evergreen Rural Water for the state�s best-tasting drinking water. �It's one of our best non-chlorinated water systems. It has just the right amount of minerals in it,� Gubbe said. �I would not have made a bet we would find PFAS in it.�

If the grant doesn�t come through, Weidenfeller said, the utility is considering other options, including purchasing water from the city of Tumwater or adding a surcharge to customer rates. More money at the state and federal level will be necessary, Weidenfeller said, especially once the more stringent EPA rules are enacted and water utilities compete to address PFAS. �We could eat up that whole pot of money easily,� he said.

Clary noted, however, that at the same moment Washington is scrambling to figure out how to pay for PFAS removal, in 2023 the state used only a small fraction of $63 million available in federal drinking-water funds intended to remove lead in service lines, which isn�t as prevalent here as on the East Coast. �Why can�t we use that lead service-line replacement money for PFAS?� he wondered, noting that the city is lobbying to change the rules that apply to those funds.

One resident of Lazy Acres, who wanted to be identified by only her first name, Valerie, to protect her privacy, said that ever since PFAS was discovered in her community, she�s lost faith in Thurston PUD. �It was the best, really tasty,� she said. �Now I�ve started to drink bottled water, and I wonder if I should use it when I make coffee. I don�t trust what they do to their system.�

Coincidentally, while preparing to speak to Crosscut for this article, Ecology�s Rebecca Lawson noticed on the Department of Health�s dashboard that one water source between Olympia and Tacoma known as Classic Heights tested over the state limit in September. This was personally significant because Lawson lives about a mile away from the Classic Heights site and draws water from a private well on her property.

�It feels a bit concerning,� she said about discovering PFAS so near her home. �Like, wow � maybe I need to think about having my well tested.�

# ? Feb 14, 2024 17:11

Ferdinand Bardamu: Apr 30, 2013

Home of Unwound and KARP (Kill All Redneck Pricks). Scumwater rocks!

# ? Feb 14, 2024 17:24

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

mawarannahr posted:

sorry about your tumwater
PFAS in Washington�s well water could make you sick

one of the issues is these limits are basically blown wide open by just being open to the environment. if distribution is stored in an open cut reservoir, there�s enough pfas in the air to blow the threshold. literally if a sampler eats McDonalds before taking a sample, there�s enough pfas on them to completely gently caress up the results. if they wear a coat or shirt that day, there�s enough pfas that can shake off and gently caress up the sample

there�s pretty much no way the epa limit being considered goes into effect.

if we want to get serious about it, it needs to be cut out from production of everything. no more tires, no more food container coatings, no more plastics, no more clothe chemical coating, etc. just saying it can�t be in water ain�t going to do poo poo and pretty much impossible to do anything about. unless the feds are willing to do a $2 trillion grant to all water agencies for capex upgrades

Xaris has issued a correction as of 17:30 on Feb 14, 2024

# ? Feb 14, 2024 17:27

kyojin: Jun 15, 2005; I MASHED THE KEYS AND LOOK WHAT I MADE

Simply stop consuming water idiots

# ? Feb 14, 2024 17:29

Argentum: Feb 6, 2011; UGLY LIKE BOWEL CANCER

Just buy distilled water in plastic bottles for your helping of microplastics. If you want some extra PFAS, stick to the tap.

# ? Feb 14, 2024 17:34

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Argentum posted:

Just buy distilled water in plastic bottles for your helping of microplastics. If you want some extra PFAS, stick to the tap.

Mmm... love the Teflon tape on the tap joint

# ? Feb 14, 2024 17:36

Dokapon Findom: Dec 5, 2022; They hated Futanari because His posts were shit.

Blows my mind that there are places- like, major population centers- in the first world without any kind of water treatment. Lol they are so proud of their poo poo water too

# ? Feb 14, 2024 17:52

SixteenShells: Sep 30, 2021

the town i grew up in just had individual household wells dug into the aquifer. there was an old superfund site not far away though. water always tasted a little funky

# ? Feb 14, 2024 18:00

HAIL eSATA-n: Apr 7, 2007

my water comes from a big lake that people drive boats on. probably fine. can't interrupt the pleasures of the rich

# ? Feb 14, 2024 18:08

Pepe Silvia Browne: Jan 1, 2007

microplastics are chiralium, we are making Death Stranding real

# ? Feb 14, 2024 18:19

Mr. Barnesworth: Jun 28, 2008; I said GOOD DAY, sir!

bio accumulation is my passion

# ? Feb 14, 2024 18:26

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Mr. Barnesworth posted:

bio accumulation is my passion

# ? Feb 14, 2024 18:35

hubris.height: Jan 6, 2005; Pork Pro

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

microplastics are chiralium, we are making Death Stranding real

# ? Feb 14, 2024 18:47

BRJurgis: Aug 15, 2007; Well I hear the thunder roll, I feel the cold winds blowing...
But you won't find me there, 'cause I won't go back again...
While you're on smoky roads, I'll be out in the sun...
Where the trees still grow, where they count by one...

MightyBigMinus posted:

one neat thing about the way news/google-seo/ad-rates played out for the last 20 years is that there is a url/article to support literally any and every possible argument. got an opinion? there's an article to support it! everything is true and nothing is real.

Too true unfortunately. I dated somebody from another country who saw little difference between weed and heroin. When I tried to dismiss this she simply found an article spouting all kinds of bullshit about the dangers of Marijuana. I bring up a topic at work I read on the forums lampooning some credulous mainstream copium article, and one of them tries to correct me clearly citing that very article, because they'd read it themselves that morning and how could I know better than the news scroll that accompanies their morning poo poo?

# ? Feb 14, 2024 18:50

Cup Runneth Over: Aug 8, 2009; She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate

Pink Mist posted:

front page story on geoengineering from the wsj today. that was faster than i expected.

https://www.wsj.com/science/environment/geoengineering-projects-cool-planet-weather-f0619bf7

they compare dumping chemicals into the ocean to taking a tums

makes sense. Americans dump tons of chemicals into their bodies

# ? Feb 14, 2024 19:55

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Dokapon Findom posted:

Blows my mind that there are places- like, major population centers- in the first world without any kind of water treatment. Lol they are so proud of their poo poo water too

trucutru has issued a correction as of 20:05 on Feb 14, 2024

# ? Feb 14, 2024 19:58

JAY ZERO SUM GAME: Oct 18, 2005; Walter.
I know you know how to do this.
Get up.

we're so super hosed

# ? Feb 14, 2024 20:15

SniperWoreConverse: Mar 20, 2010; Gun Saliva

Cup Runneth Over posted:

makes sense. Americans dump tons of chemicals into their bodies

i'm doing it right now :beerpal:

# ? Feb 14, 2024 20:36

OIL PANIC: Dec 22, 2022; CAUTIONS
_{_{...

4. ... (If the battery is exhausted, the display of the liquid crystal will become vague and difficult to look at.)

...

7. Do not use volatile oils such as thinner or benzine and alcohol for wiping.}}

The good news is, a high-fiber diet protects against pfas, so goons should be... *touches earpiece* oh. oh no...

# ? Feb 14, 2024 22:27

err: Apr 11, 2005; I carry my own weight no matter how heavy this shit gets...

going to start donating blood + plasma, make some money and send the PFAs to seomeone else, thank u poster that recommended it

# ? Feb 14, 2024 22:29

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

mags posted:

yeah it�s even funnier when you realize no human hand beyond programming the copy machine stealing the work of artists created the image and that it�s a pointless meaningless thing that wastes your time looking at it, that prompt engineering isn�t a skill, and every image has some weird jarring flaw that�ll often simply make it unpleasant to view

that�s not all true. I�ve seen some legit amazing AI art from artists who prompt well and tweak.

also, the energy isn�t terrible if you just buy a $6000 Mac Studio and run the models locally. super easy fix to make your AI art to create and push your drop shipping business of cute productive calendars and poo poo in a desperate attempt to save enough money to buy a good spot in a future heat dome and maybe make AI porn when porn is outlawed by the Christian fascists who will take over more and more as the empire dies faster.

# ? Feb 14, 2024 22:39

mags: May 30, 2008; I am a congenital optimist.

LionArcher posted:

that�s not all true. I�ve seen some legit amazing AI art from artists who prompt well and tweak.

also, the energy isn�t terrible if you just buy a $6000 Mac Studio and run the models locally. super easy fix to make your AI art to create and push your drop shipping business of cute productive calendars and poo poo in a desperate attempt to save enough money to buy a good spot in a future heat dome and maybe make AI porn when porn is outlawed by the Christian fascists who will take over more and more as the empire dies faster.

????

# ? Feb 14, 2024 22:40

mags: May 30, 2008; I am a congenital optimist.

weird place to disclose yr porn tastes but whatever

# ? Feb 14, 2024 22:42

Notorious R.I.M.: Jan 27, 2004; up to my ass in alligators

s.... syq?

# ? Feb 14, 2024 22:43

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

mags posted:

weird place to disclose yr porn tastes but whatever

the AI porn is for selling obviously. I�m just giving some neat tricks to help as the collapse continues. planning ahead as I stockpile food supplies and seeds and screws. (all of this is a bit. I�m started bartending again after a few years off because watching the collapse from the front row is way more fun than just being a computer toucher. also I miss RIM�s cheerful posts).

# ? Feb 14, 2024 22:50