|
Randalor posted:I'm honestly surprised there are any hospitals left to bomb at this point. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145317#:~:text=The%20attacks%20affected%2094%20health,affected%20along%20with%20212%20ambulances. I was thinking the same thing so I looked it up, this is a few weeks outs of date and still says 26 out of 36 have been hit, with today's attack I expect they'll hit 100% pretty soon. Disgusting.
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2024 17:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 01:53 |
|
|
https://jacobin.com/2024/02/biden-administration-gaza-israel-war Article with quotes from US officials implying what we already knew, that Biden is on board with what Israel is doing in Gaza, and leaks to contrary are simply PR. Would just like to state my opinion here that Biden, and the US government are completely culpable for this genocide and should all be tried in the ICJ and ICC for aiding and abetting a genocide. History will not be kind to the people who defended or equivocated on any of this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2024 20:24
|
|
|
Kalit posted:Is this in response to me? If so, I can guarantee that much more than 50% of us in D&D think Israel has gone too far. Which ties into my point of D&D being much more left than the general populace. How is any of this relevant? What is the point you are trying to make? Could you explain why it is so important that the IDF could sustain or not without US aid or what relevance the difference between public opinion vs here is to the point you’re actually trying to make?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2024 20:49
|
|
|
Your Brain on Hugs posted:https://jacobin.com/2024/02/biden-administration-gaza-israel-war Unsurprising, but good to have verification. It still took a particular kind of brokebrained self-deception to buy that story. Willful ignorance of the man, his political past and present, and just how the US international alliance works. "Hey Joe, how about you make good on that campaign promise of pardoning college debt" : Well you see we need to means-test this, explore every option, make sure it's not going to the wrong people, check every box in Congress, can't hurry this along, gotta think of the Supreme Court, oh dang the Parlamentarian is making a sour face at us bummer dude "Hey Joe, fork over the cash and warheads for our ethnic cleansing" : Here's an advance skipping Congress, plus everything left in the armories. We're blocking the UN ceasefires and dumping on the International Court, I'm personally ampliflying the beheaded babies hasbara and tying foreign US policy bills to sending a small space program worth of more weapons and cash. Don't stop firing for a secind lads, I want to see those artillery barrels red hot and...uh, Bibi sure is a booger-eater, huh But sadly, the world stage is full of red-handed butchers still rich and influential despite 'History's Judgement'. The unlucky ones will get called 'controversial' in their obituaries like Kissinger did.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2024 21:07
|
|
|
That's definitely a couple more data points, but when I drill down past the editorializing I get a bit annoyed at the author. If you think you have a strong case, maybe don't hang your hat on quoting some former Israeli diplomat opining on Israeli media to an Israeli audience about his thoughts on Biden. Information I hadn't seen elsewhere before: - several anonymous sources on the same Blinken one liner (the strongest piece of evidence for the thesis "the Biden admin just wants to buy time* and anything else it says is lies") - politico report I missed saying Biden wants Hamas wrecked - annoyed admin official telling huffpo (correctly) that he would like Biden to listen more to the softies going "maybe we should try harder to get Israel to stop the genocide" Absolutely none of this even seems to be NEW new. Two rereads in and this is a summary article (good) with questionable quotation practices (bad) and some real dodgy editorializing (bad). Verdict: I'd rather read the pieces it's pulling from, which in fairness the author links. Article feels a bit clickbaity. The first paragraph does not help with that impression. edited because the tone of one of my bullet points might have been misconstrued Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Feb 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 00:17
|
|
|
Sephyr posted:Unsurprising, but good to have verification. It still took a particular kind of brokebrained self-deception to buy that story. Willful ignorance of the man, his political past and present, and just how the US international alliance works. if this is your take on the Biden admin's handling of student loan forgiveness you've missed a couple developments we have a thread in this very subforum for people navigating the shitloads of stuff they've done to forgive loans and slash monthly payments Edit to avoid tripleposting: I'm really really curious about the current state of desalination plants etc in Gaza. This article doesn't really cover it directly but shares some individual stories. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/war-gaza-palestinians-forced-walk-miles-contaminated-water If representative: currently survivable-ish, but real bad. Gastrointestinal problems, likely waterborne diseases, extreme difficulty washing people and clothes. The longer it goes on the worse those secondary problems are going to be even if dying of thirst is uncommon. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Feb 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 00:22
|
|
|
Sephyr posted:Unsurprising, but good to have verification. It still took a particular kind of brokebrained self-deception to buy that story. Willful ignorance of the man, his political past and present, and just how the US international alliance works. People just don't want to think that their guy is a monster despite all the evidence to the contrary. Pretending that a few slightly harsh words by playground standards are actually something in the face of a genocide is an absolutely ridiculous stance to have. But Biden and his equally culpable admin have nothing else to show because they are willfully part of the genocide.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 00:45
|
|
|
mcgurk runs the show and biden is a dementia riddled corpse who keeps calling him 'beau'.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 01:29
|
|
|
SMEGMA_MAIL posted:How is any of this relevant? What is the point you are trying to make? Could you explain why it is so important that the IDF could sustain or not without US aid or what relevance the difference between public opinion vs here is to the point you’re actually trying to make? Yes. I would like to know, too. I don't understand how it related to the discussion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 02:13
|
|
|
The Sean posted:Yes. I would like to know, too. I don't understand how it related to the discussion. Why are you curious when you are the reason I started talking about SA opinion vs general populace opinion? Your post of The Sean posted:Why would we care if our weapons were used for bad things like murdering innocents or committing genocide? Seriously? Kalit posted:From the tone of exasperation of The Sean's statement (i.e. "Seriously?"), they seemed to object to my statement. Which is why I responded with that reminder. And as a reminder of the original statement you seemed to be objecting to: Kalit posted:They’re selling weapons to an ally. Which, in general, is a positive thing in the eyes of the government and most of the populace. Kalit fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Feb 16, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 02:24
|
|
|
boo boo bear posted:mcgurk runs the show and biden is a dementia riddled corpse who keeps calling him 'beau'. gonna be honest, I've seen a couple mcgurk takes around the leftist extremely online internet and absolutely nowhere else, so maybe that would be a topic for a couple links hereabouts literally didn't know who the guy was without googling your other bit is not a useful or substantiated part of the post and is kinda at odds with other takes about Biden being totally on board with [Israeli objective]
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 02:26
|
|
|
Kalit posted:Why are you curious when you are the reason I started talking about SA opinion vs general populace opinion? Your post of You responded to the statement of "we have a legitimate interest in knowing how our arms supplies to allies are being used" with "the general populace thinks the arms supplies are ok". This is not a response. It's a deflection. The public being majority in favour of something has nothing to do with the original statement.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 02:36
|
|
|
YF-23 posted:You responded to the statement of "we have a legitimate interest in knowing how our arms supplies to allies are being used" with "the general populace thinks the arms supplies are ok". This is not a response. It's a deflection. The public being majority in favour of something has nothing to do with the original statement. If you want to show a source that states the majority of Americans want to reduce the amount of military aid going to Israel, I will 100% admit I’m in the wrong. But I have not seen that nor do I believe it would be true. Even if a majority of the populace had the opinion of something like “woah, Israel”. Because those are still 2 separate things
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 02:44
|
|
|
That is still a deflection.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 02:55
|
|
|
Kalit posted:How is “we’ll run out of missiles in the next month because of no imports from the USA” and “we’ll run out of missiles in the next 3 years because of no imports from global shortages, countries all refused to sell us weapons, and/or we got invaded” even close to the same thing?
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 03:10
|
|
|
386-SX 25Mhz VGA posted:I’m either having a stroke or this is very strangely worded, because I can’t parse what you’re trying to say here, even at face value. Same was true for what I initially responded to, so totally possible we’re not talking about the same thing. We're all praying for your recovery. It's contrasting two claims.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 03:14
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:We're all praying for your recovery. It's contrasting two claims. quote:Israel running out of tank weapons and Israel wanting to have a large stockpile in case of shortages/US stops supplying them/escalation of war if someone decides to invade them/etc are very different If I’m a goober for reading this as a statement about weapons (as opposed to claims about weapons), I’m a goober.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 03:29
|
|
|
Google Jeb Bush posted:gonna be honest, I've seen a couple mcgurk takes around the leftist extremely online internet and absolutely nowhere else, so maybe that would be a topic for a couple links hereabouts the 'extremely online and leftists' financial times... definitely something to consider and I'll apply a more critical lens to the so-called journalism they produce. thank you for your feedback.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 03:41
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/MelechThomas/status/1757975009916514707?t=ihBAsEIbmqa9I1sAsQnMnA This is pretty big. Good to see my denomination doing this
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 03:44
|
|
|
It was originally relevant insofar as the US is providing material support and cover to a genocide, and as a "democracy" if its people don't care all that much about (or perhaps even support) shooting humans in a barrel, why would leadership feel different. Its like playing the table. Except you're a partial owner of the casino and it should probably be set aflame.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 03:47
|
|
|
boo boo bear posted:the 'extremely online and leftists' financial times... definitely something to consider and I'll apply a more critical lens to the so-called journalism they produce. thank you for your feedback. you could have posted the link instead of going for the internet own with almost no further info, you know And in fact i... can't actually find what you're referencing? Cmon. I assume his first name is Brett and I'm not finding beans about him masterminding Biden's Israel policy. Well, any more beans than him being appointed in 2021 as an advisor which... okay? Don't just assume we all read wherever you get your info.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 04:13
|
|
|
Google Jeb Bush posted:Don't just assume we all read wherever you get your info. we obviously travel in different circles, but I'll plead guilty to hoping for the best from my fellow posters. if you could name a couple of outlets that are more your speed, I'll find some articles that you might find suitable. maybe you could just give me a list of sources you'd consider 'extremely online leftists' (sic) where you've admittedly seen mcgurk's name come up as the driving force behind current policy before so we can avoid repetition? to be fair, it felt like you were engaging in some source free riffing on the vibes of the political situation, not the reality of who the actual players are, their history and ideological framework that informs their decision making process. can't say I blame you since the former is always fun and the latter requires a bit more effort. I can only work with what I'm given and if there were any links in your screed(s) I'm not seeing them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 05:28
|
|
|
Well I mean, the problem is I've only seen random references to him in information environments where it's assumed that everyone understands the reference. it also seems that my description of those environments may have come across as uncharitable, so sorry about that, even aside from the part where I am both extremely online (obviously) and leftist (genocide is uniformly bad, private ownership of capital is bad) It's like an environment where people regularly negatively reference, I dunno, David Sirota, without ever explaining who he is or why they dislike him. Anyone who enters the room late is going to struggle. The articles I saw earlier boiled down to "mcgurk exists" and "this guy was sent to work on Gaza negotiations", neither of which really rises to the heady heights of him running the show. Whatever I just did with Google this time seems to have pulled up an early December huffpo article that might be more along the lines of your namedrops / the namedrops I've seen but other than that if you have an expose feel free to share it with the class. huffpo thing
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 05:55
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1757776754821763250 Israel does not have a right to exist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 16:01
|
|
|
The western world stands by, even in some cases supports the 21st century holocaust.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 16:51
|
|
|
Remember when it was beyond the pale to suggest the IDF would attack a hospital? https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1758210985704231233
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 16:55
|
|
|
Nucleic Acids posted:https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1757776754821763250 Wild how many friends I know that marched for George Floyd or posted "riots are the voices of the unheard" but could not give two shits about anything Israel does.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 19:35
|
|
|
It completely shatters the liberal fantasy of the Rules Based International Order and lays bare the ugly heart of the US led hegemony. It forces people to confront this ugliness in sort of the same way that Trump did. This time however it's liberals in charge. When your entire political and media class has been shown to be no better - if not worse - than the Bad Countries, for many people it's much easier to ignore or downplay and equivocate rather than take a good look at their beliefs and how the world operates.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 21:33
|
|
|
Your Brain on Hugs posted:It completely shatters the liberal fantasy of the Rules Based International Order and lays bare the ugly heart of the US led hegemony. It forces people to confront this ugliness in sort of the same way that Trump did. I got arrested during the BLM protests and that was when I had the zeitgeist on my side. Im pissed but also scared shitless to do anything to speak out IRL because a pro-Israel group could doxx me and ruin my life in a hundred ways.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2024 23:41
|
|
|
Yawgmoft posted:Wild how many friends I know that marched for George Floyd or posted "riots are the voices of the unheard" but could not give two shits about anything Israel does. Not giving a poo poo about a war is the standard norm though and the war in Gaza is mainly abnormal in the coverage it gets. In Congo M23 is effectively besieging Goma, a city of a million people. Half a million people have died in Sudan/Ethiopia over the last 2 years. Haiti is practically a failed state or in a defacto civil war. Not a single soul in the West gives the tiniest nano-poo poo. People cared about Yemen when the US was involved but then promptly forgot and stopped caring when the US pulled back. People briefly noticed Haiti when the US proposed a UN intervention and then promptly forgot again when that got pulled. People only care about Palestine because it is a US ally doing it. The indifference would be total and absolute if it was anyone else doing it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 11:28
|
|
|
Owling Howl posted:The indifference would be total and absolute if it was anyone else doing it. I think this is too exaggerated - there'd still be interest generated by Israel being the Official Jewish State for All Jews, when so much of Western ideology and religion is obsessed with the Jew as an out-of-place character who needs to be reformed, protected, or destroyed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 14:46
|
|
|
Owling Howl posted:Not giving a poo poo about a war is the standard norm though and the war in Gaza is mainly abnormal in the coverage it gets. In Congo M23 is effectively besieging Goma, a city of a million people. Half a million people have died in Sudan/Ethiopia over the last 2 years. Haiti is practically a failed state or in a defacto civil war. Not a single soul in the West gives the tiniest nano-poo poo. There's a difference between not really knowing/caring about a conflict at all, and going out of your way to excuse the actions of one side of a conflict and disparage the other, which is more my experience with IP than straight indifference.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 15:53
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:I think this is too exaggerated - there'd still be interest generated by Israel being the Official Jewish State for All Jews, when so much of Western ideology and religion is obsessed with the Jew as an out-of-place character who Israel also seems to be obsessed with these things. I guess they are a Western country after all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 16:27
|
|
|
Esran posted:Israel also seems to be obsessed with these things. I guess they are a Western country after all. Obviously Zionism is a Western ideology obsessed with these things but the logic doesn't work here - just because virtually all Western politics/religion reserves a special role for the Jew doesn't mean any politics/religion/culture that does so is Western. Many non-Western countries have philosemitic/antisemitic politics far out of proportion to the fraction of Jews in their society - India, Malaysia, Yemen. What makes Israel Western isn't its Judeocentric politics but that it gets to compete in Eurovision instead of being held accountable for crimes against humanity.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 16:39
|
|
|
I was jokingly pointing out that Israel's view on Jews is no less problematic than many Western countries, not making an argument that what makes a country Western is its obsession with Judaism. Israel sees the diaspora as out-of-place Jews who should move to Israel where they belong, and considering their treatment of Ethiopian Jews and Holocaust survivors, I think it is more aptly called the "State for Certain Kinds of Jew".
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 17:20
|
|
|
Esran posted:Israel sees the diaspora as out-of-place Jews who should move to Israel where they belong, and considering their treatment of Ethiopian Jews and Holocaust survivors, I think it is more aptly called the "State for Certain Kinds of Jew". Do you have sources on this? I don’t doubt you in the least because I know how Ethiopian Jews have been treated by Israel in the past, but Holocaust survivors I genuinely cannot wrap my head around.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 17:45
|
|
|
teen witch posted:Do you have sources on this? I don’t doubt you in the least because I know how Ethiopian Jews have been treated by Israel in the past, but Holocaust survivors I genuinely cannot wrap my head around. https://www.jta.org/archive/behind-the-headlines-holocaust-restitution-deals-fail-to-engross-israeli-public-2 quote:“They called us the sabonim,” he says — using Hebrew slang for “cowards.” quote:In Israel, the initial reaction was also evasive because the Holocaust provoked a sense of humiliation on which the country preferred to turn its back. ''We were raised as the better, proud Jews who could fight back, unlike our brothers who went like sheep to the slaughter,'' Mr. Primor said. ''We thought, wrongly, that the victims humiliated us. They were insulted as the 'Sabonim' -- the Jews gassed and turned into soap by the Nazis.'' quote:The Zionist settlers living in Palestine during the Holocaust years did little to rescue the Jews of Europe. Their concern was building the fledgling Jewish state. They viewed viewed the European remnant as weak and pathetic, victims of the “ghetto mentality” who went “like sheep to the slaughter.”
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 17:51
|
|
|
This is kind of one of those "a few people did this" which is extremely not indicative of the whole society as a total. There were Jewish groups operating out of Israel trying to smuggle Jews in from Europe away from the Nazis and funds set up to try bring Jews in. The above would be like saying a small percentage of Rapture loving evangelicals in the States represent all of Americas views on Christianity.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 18:40
|
|
|
teen witch posted:Do you have sources on this? I don’t doubt you in the least because I know how Ethiopian Jews have been treated by Israel in the past, but Holocaust survivors I genuinely cannot wrap my head around. On their treatment today: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna293391 quote:Hershkovichi is one of 190,000 Holocaust survivors residing in Israel today. She is also one of the 50,000 estimated to live below the poverty line https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-abuses-holocaust-survivors quote:Roth was 7 years old when she entered the Warsaw ghetto. She went on to Vilna, and then to the Stutthof concentration camp, where her mother died of hunger and her sister was sent to the gas chamber. She was 15 when the war ended, and she moved to Israel alone. Echoing the accounts of other survivors, Roth said that when she arrived, Israelis treated Holocaust survivors as if what happened to them was somehow their fault. “I heard many times that we went like sheep to the slaughter,” Roth told me. Yet, she continued, the Israeli government was happy to take money from the German government for the suffering she and millions of others endured. Bonus from the second story, which is admittedly not Israel's fault: Germany has been paying reparations for the Holocaust, but apparently not directly to survivors, but instead to what looks suspiciously like a grifting operation. quote:Asked why she receives no support from the Israeli government or from the Claims Conference, More said she’s been offered this help but refused it. “We don’t want it,” she said, “because we think the money should go directly to the survivors, without anyone getting $50,000 a month as a salary.” She was referring to Gregory Schneider, the head of the Claims Conference, who, according to the organization’s 990 report for 2014, earned $613,000 that year. Avraham Pressler, who represents the Claims Conference in Israel, received a staggering $512,000—a salary that is almost unheard of in Israel outside of the high-tech industry. On their treatment in the past: https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1002/jts.2490080203 quote:This is vividly described by the late Joel Palgi, who, during World quote:A prevailing assumption was that to remain alive, the survivors had quote:The glue which was to join the Jewish settlers into a cohesive community was a common quote:To counter the threat, they were apparently not only reluctant to listen quote:Zionist political orthodoxy was that the Jew’s place is in Israel. The unspoken accusation was that, having chosen to re- Esran fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Feb 17, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 18:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 01:53 |
|
|
The Israeli regime shows more of their commonality with the old Nazi regime. Both regimes share similar views of the Jewish victims of the holocaust.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2024 18:57
|
|