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Just got done watching the episode, my wife just turned to me and angrily said, "This show is mis-named, they were not in fact masters of the air!"
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Feb 17, 2024 05:21
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I'd imagine painting it would also help mitigate some of the polished metal reflection that makes you easier for enemy guns to spot you.
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Feb 17, 2024 05:54
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That's why planes often had multicolor camouflage prints on them to hide their profiles depending on which angle you're at. White/grey/bright blues on the belly to blend in with the sky, a darker tone when approaching from level and a darker coloring on the top of the aircraft to blend in with the terrain below.
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Feb 17, 2024 06:23
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top camo was supposed to protect them on the ground, or near the ground for fighters. But once they were high enough for contrails they might as well have been bright yellow. The german flak was radar assisted.
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Feb 17, 2024 06:25
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You do see it more on navy planes where your options are either blue or blue.
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Feb 17, 2024 06:49
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Is the show meant to be a mini-series or ongoing?
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Feb 17, 2024 06:54
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Oasx posted:Is the show meant to be a mini-series or ongoing? Mini.
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Feb 17, 2024 06:57
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And in the pacific, the Navy and Marine Corps fighters were painted until the end. I know late-model Thunderbolts and P-38s fought over there near the end of the war, and I think I remember some of them being unpainted. Perhaps that was late-war US Army Air Corps regulations ported over to the Pacific, whereas the USN and USMC never changed theirs?
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Feb 17, 2024 06:58
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Oasx posted:Is the show meant to be a mini-series or ongoing? Wikipedia says it's a miniseries.Though I wouldn't mind another season focusing on other things in the air war, like a fighter squadron. I've always wondered what it was like early in the war where the fighters would follow to the coast of Europe and then pretty much have to turn back because they didn't have the fuel to loiter over there. Then the D model mustangs show up that allow them to fly deep into Germany to protect the bombers. Did the fighters get much action early in the war? It seems like they have to turn back before the bombers even get near any flak.
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Feb 17, 2024 07:02
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Cojawfee posted:Did the fighters get much action early in the war? It seems like they have to turn back before the bombers even get near any flak. American fighters or just allied forces in general.
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Feb 17, 2024 07:07
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I guess the American fighters. I know the British did a lot of fighting since they were using radar in their planes to see where the German planes were during night fighting. Also, I am really loving this guy's videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpPl8o2SDF4
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Feb 17, 2024 07:16
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Well early block P51s did fly missions as early as 1942 with RAF squadrons and when the 8th Airforce started operations in 1943 their fighter groups did occasionally fly into German airspace. You also had air combat over North Africa and during the Sicily and Italy campaigns, and the Navy, Marine and Army air wings were all active since 1942 fighting Japan in the PTO
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Feb 17, 2024 07:22
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Cojawfee posted:Wikipedia says it's a miniseries.Though I wouldn't mind another season focusing on other things in the air war, like a fighter squadron. I've always wondered what it was like early in the war where the fighters would follow to the coast of Europe and then pretty much have to turn back because they didn't have the fuel to loiter over there. Then the D model mustangs show up that allow them to fly deep into Germany to protect the bombers. Did the fighters get much action early in the war? It seems like they have to turn back before the bombers even get near any flak. The B and C Mustangs had basically the same range as the D, so really it was the appearance of the Merlin-engine P-51 around late 1943 that did it.
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Feb 17, 2024 07:59
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MrMojok posted:And in the pacific, the Navy and Marine Corps fighters were painted until the end. They kinda had to because of galvanic corrosion control. Unpainted aluminium with steel or magnesium rivets is asking for trouble.
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Feb 17, 2024 09:45
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Episode 5 was definitely the best one of the series so far for me, but it's a shame it's come with half of the show apparently done now. The shot of the remains of the rest of the 100th bombers falling through the air around them was particularly strong I thought.
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Feb 17, 2024 09:59
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In my head, I had been thinking of it as an ongoing series as I don't feel like there is some sort of ongoing story or direction to it.
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Feb 17, 2024 11:15
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It's a shame we've not seen fighter escorts in the show up until now, it made their appearance in this episode feel like something new rather than what happened every time the bombers went up. Fighter groups would provide cover to different stages of the mission based on their aircraft's range, over-lapping each other to save on fuel, generally Spitfires first, then P-47s, then P-38s. The P-38 could follow quite far into Germany with the P-47 just about crossing the border when fitted with an external fuel tank, the reason we see them turn away in sight of the coast on this mission is because they're flying a route further north so they're over the water for a longer period of time. The Operations Room video of the Schweinfurt-Regensburg raid does a good job of showing how involved escorts were at this stage of the war (and a much better job than episode 3 did of showing what actually happened that day). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA0_h920_Dc
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Feb 17, 2024 11:31
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We gonna get some Tuskegee action before it’s over, that’s all I know.
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Feb 17, 2024 12:44
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I'm just worried that the show is going to simplify it down to "we tried running escorts the whole mission and suddenly we're Masters of the Air" and then they'll speedrun through 1944 and 45.
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Feb 17, 2024 13:27
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The little lull with the pilot humming a song as everyone else stared in disbelief while they awaited the next attack was really good / way too real.
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Feb 17, 2024 19:36
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I appreciated that they didn’t add a “are you really dogfighting with them?!?!?” line in that scene. When I realized what he was doing, I expected it immediately, and it would have ruined the tension imo.
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Feb 17, 2024 19:53
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BIG HEADLINE posted:He navigated his plane to an RAF base, apparently "one degree off" and they'd have ended up in the water. Ah, I thought he was on Elvis's plane and had vanished along with them. That's what confused me Perestroika posted:At the time, people in charge were also still quite optimistic about the potential effect of strategic bombing, as it was still a fairly new development. Many genuinely believed that any month now the bombing would critically break Germany's ability and/or will to sustain their war effort. Weighed against the prospect of shortening the war by months or even years, the severe losses of the bomber force would have seemed entirely worth it. Its really funny that they knew that strategic bombing was ineffective, because it didn't effect the British that much. Breaking the enemies back didn't work when the Luftwaffe did it, why did they assume it was going to work with the RAF and US Army Are Corps did it? I asked that to a prof in university and he said it was because the British were so arrogant and so they thought that even though the battle of britain and further bombings didn't effect their moral or ability to continue the war, they assumed because the Hun was so weak willed in comparison to the mighty British, that it would work. There is a shot in the opening showing Russian soldiers holding up one of the airmen, so I assume either thats from them liberating a POW camp or one of the aircraft ends up on the eastern front?
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Feb 17, 2024 20:04
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twistedmentat posted:Its really funny that they knew that strategic bombing was ineffective, because it didn't effect the British that much. Breaking the enemies back didn't work when the Luftwaffe did it, why did they assume it was going to work with the RAF and US Army Are Corps did it? I asked that to a prof in university and he said it was because the British were so arrogant and so they thought that even though the battle of britain and further bombings didn't effect their moral or ability to continue the war, they assumed because the Hun was so weak willed in comparison to the mighty British, that it would work. While it didn't have the desired effect of completely smashing German industry and winning the war single handedly, it did accomplish a number of things that were positive for the allies. It wore the Luftwaffe down to an absolute nub by the end of the war. Sending up big raids that they have to respond to and getting skilled pilots killed in large numbers should not be discounted. Those pilots and aircraft could have made more of a difference on the eastern front if not for the strategic bombing campaign. It tied up large numbers of large caliber barrels and ammunition that could have been put to better use on the eastern front. It did cause segments of German industry to decentralize and reduced their efficiency It kept up pressure on the western front at a time when the western allies couldn't put troops on the continent. Its debatable if it was worth spending the lives and aircraft to accomplish those goals, but in a total war sometimes an attritional approach is necessary. Also correct me if I'm wrong. The early Battle of Brittan bombing was having a big effect on the UK's ability to wage war and it wasn't until they switched from bombing military and industrial targets to civilian targets that it lost its effectiveness and the "keep calm and carry on" mentality was all they needed to withstand it.
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Feb 17, 2024 20:23
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There's also the political factor to consider. Before D-Day, the Western Allies weren't really a) doing the Germans much damage, and b) not taking many casualties. They had to do something to show that they weren't just letting the Soviets do the heavy lifting and shed all the blood. It's cold as gently caress, but that's coalition warfare for you. Conquering the East was Germany's primary strategic objective, so there was no chance of a separate peace, but Roosevelt and Churchill couldn't be sure of that.
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Feb 17, 2024 23:55
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twistedmentat posted:There is a shot in the opening showing Russian soldiers holding up one of the airmen, so I assume either thats from them liberating a POW camp or one of the aircraft ends up on the eastern front? That's likely from the prisoner march away from Stalag Luft III in '45. The Germans were on the run from the Soviets and pushed the Airforce POWs to march further west in the dead of winter to avoid Russian capture. After a while the guards stopped trying to prevent runaways from fleeing; presumably a few of them took their chances with the Russians.
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Feb 18, 2024 00:02
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Just caught up with it. Episodes four and five were really strong and both moved me to feelings -- I really thought I'd be more hardened against the show thanks to sheer jingoism of the thing, but it worked on me. It's also a bit clearer where they're going with things now (war of attrition, backed by a dwindling party of regulars). Really wasn't expecting them to kill Austin Butler's character off off-screen, but it works for what they're doing tremendously well. I do wish they'd have done slightly better by the characters though, the other few shows I've seen attempt this structure really put a lot more weight into their characters, so it really hit like a truck when even the unlikable ones start getting killed off. But it works even when the characterization is a bit shallow, which speaks to the sheer strength of this as a structure. I really wish the one spoiler I know about what's going on with the season (the second last episode is a random side story that features none of the leads) wasn't happening though. Really poor choice.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:28
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Did you see a body? No?
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Feb 18, 2024 22:33
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You realize these are real people, right? No one is unkillable in real life, and these real people often died for no reason. Also he's not dead.
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Feb 18, 2024 22:38
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The strategic bomber doing some of that pilot poo poo had me grinning like an idiot.
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Feb 19, 2024 04:29
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Ages ago there was a UK miniseries called Piece Of Cake, about a RAF squadron during the Battle of Britain, that I recall being pretty good, at least when I was 11-12 or however old I was when it aired in the US. Looks like it's on YouTube at least: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33VpQsI2gPw Laterite fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 05:55
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twistedmentat posted:There is a shot in the opening showing Russian soldiers holding up one of the airmen, so I assume either thats from them liberating a POW camp or one of the aircraft ends up on the eastern front? It's from the book I assume, it told of one airman who landed right next to the eastern front in '45.
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Feb 19, 2024 09:05
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Laterite posted:Ages ago there was a UK miniseries called Piece Of Cake, about a RAF squadron during the Battle of Britain, that I recall being pretty good, at least when I was 11-12 or however old I was when it aired in the US. It’s a great show, I have it on dvd! They had five or six Spits, although in the book Eagle Squadron flew Hurricanes, and they had three of the 109 Buchons. They did reuse some footage from the 1969 BoB film, but overall Piece of Cake is great. Squadron Commander Rex, the one other pilot who’s a real dickhead, and a couple of others were good characterizations. Ray Hannah flew a Spitfire Mk IX under a bridge for a shot in the film. I also liked how in this last episode of Masters, during the opening briefing they said “we believe the neighborhoods around the factories are occupied by factory workers, therefore gently caress them and their families.” Glad they aren’t shying away from that aspect of this. e2: also a little chute-shooting, 
MrMojok fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 09:17
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Laterite posted:Ages ago there was a UK miniseries called Piece Of Cake, about a RAF squadron during the Battle of Britain, that I recall being pretty good, at least when I was 11-12 or however old I was when it aired in the US.
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Feb 19, 2024 13:50
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Got to watch the ep last night and I think it was definitely the best of the series. That was some powerful stuff. At the end of it, my wife turned to me and said "Why did they do this? When did they start winning?". I remember when reading the book, it was during this portion where it sort of felt like I was being hit over the head every time I cracked it open because it was just brutal mission recap on top of brutal mission recap. It was a hard read because of how dark the subject matter was, and I think the show is doing a good job of bringing that to reality. It'll be interesting to see how they wrap this series up as we def are about to have some time jumping.
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Feb 19, 2024 15:32
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This show started extremely weak and I came very close to quitting it after the first two episodes, only watching the rest because I wanted background noise while working on a project, and I definitely feel like it has been getting stronger with every episode. This latest episode is notable as the first time I actually stopped working to just sit down and watch the show. It's still got a lot of problems - the soundtrack is overbearing and bad and actively detrimental to the show, the voiceover narration is groan-inducing every time it happens, the characters are so thin that it is often difficult to remember exactly which of these interchangeable dudes is dying, etc. - but overall it's fun, it's fine, a solid C+. The good bits are really good, the bad bits are pretty bad, and overall it balances out to okay. I'll definitely be watching the rest of it. At times it feels like a double period piece. On the surface, it's a period piece set during WW2, but it frequently, especially in the first couple episodes, feels like you're watching, not just a show about WW2, but something that is specifically trying to be a recreation of a 1960s/1970s war picture set during WW2, and it just wasn't working for me. Almost everything taking place on the ground is so bland and formulaic and uninteresting. In general the writing is the weakest part of this show - and that makes sense, because it's written by a nepotism hire who got into screenwriting because his wife was a movie industry executive, and his previous credits are a couple of very bad movies and two episodes of Band of Brothers. The 'two episodes of BoB' credit makes the weirdness of the early episodes make a lot more sense, honestly - it felt kind of like the show had skipped an episode or two, like you were coming in midway through an already-ongoing miniseries while your friend next to you on the couch narrated the poo poo you had missed. Coming in midway through an already-ongoing miniseries is one of the only things this screenwriter has ever done, back on Band of Brothers, so of course he'd do it again. The air combat scenes are quite great and feel like they're getting better with each episode, barring a few silly things (the bullet-time fighter close encounter was less dramatic and more funny than I think was intended). I don't even mind the video-game-quality visual effects, the stuff they've been doing with those effects is harrowing, intense, and a whole lot of fun to watch.
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Feb 19, 2024 19:17
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I did not like early in the series were all the Hunks were all crazy wild party dudes going WhoooO! All the time. Ya! WW2 its a big party ya! But that all kind of vanished when everyone started dying.
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Feb 19, 2024 20:44
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twistedmentat posted:I did not like early in the series were all the Hunks were all crazy wild party dudes going WhoooO! All the time. Ya! WW2 its a big party ya! Have you met any military aviators?
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Feb 19, 2024 20:45
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Yeah if there's one part of this show that is completely accurate, it's the overinflated egos. I suppose it does take a certain type of person to be willing to fly through clouds of high-velocity metal fragments on a daily basis, though.
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Feb 19, 2024 21:58
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From a few pages ago, regarding inconsistency in German POW camps. Weirdly the services ran camps for their opposition's services. IE, the Luftwaffe generally handled all allied aviation POWs and the Kriegsmarine had a camp for allied sailors they captured. This generally translated to better treatment than Army camps for ground troops, but even they, in general, were treated okay. The still mostly bought into the "knights of the sky" view of aerial combat, at least on the western front. I'm not really sure if they extended that view to Soviet pilots, but could see it going either way.
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Feb 20, 2024 03:22
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:From a few pages ago, regarding inconsistency in German POW camps. Weirdly the services ran camps for their opposition's services. IE, the Luftwaffe generally handled all allied aviation POWs and the Kriegsmarine had a camp for allied sailors they captured. This generally translated to better treatment than Army camps for ground troops, but even they, in general, were treated okay. The still mostly bought into the "knights of the sky" view of aerial combat, at least on the western front. I'm not really sure if they extended that view to Soviet pilots, but could see it going either way. Pretty sure the Soviets made everyone do hard labour. Maybe some officers got the NKVD treatment though.
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Feb 20, 2024 07:35
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