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I've really gotten into Gun Bonsai as of late (it pairs well with Corruption Cards), but what are some good weapon mods to go with it? LegenDoom is a given obviously, but are there any others that lend themselves well to constant weapon upgrades?
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Feb 17, 2024 23:08
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Most of the Final Doomer weapons sets are at least interesting to try with Gun Bonsai. Pistols in particular are fun to modify; the clip is its own ammo type and so can be improved by the Bandoliers character upgrade that increases clip size, which makes them feasible sub-machine guns for. I do recommend turning off the elemental effects for any non-IWAD weapon set. Unfortunately that requires direct editing of the mod, iirc
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Feb 18, 2024 00:19
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Arivia posted:e: one thing that you should get in the habit of if you're pistol-starting is making a backup save at the very beginning of each level. like very beginning, before you shoot anything hopefully. Pistol starting adds a routing challenge of figuring out where to go to get weapons to progress, which is why it's great, but it means that you can sometimes softlock yourself if you walk into fights you can't handle with the weaponry you do have. Having that backup beginning of level save has allowed me to restart on maps where I've missed an important part of progression and figured it out later, then I can replay and go right instead of left and get the RL at the right time or whatever.  Why not just restart the map when something like that happens? It seems to me that pistol starting would remove the need for a beginning of map save. I suppose it means you could easily reset things with a quickload, but have 'map *' bound to a key so I can restart my current map with a single keypress anyway.
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Feb 18, 2024 03:09
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Takes No Damage posted:
If I'm understanding it correctly, Arivia's talking about a thing I also do: when I finish a level and start the next, I've still got all of my stuff from the previous level. I'll usually make an immediate "level start" save at this point, and then idclev myself into a pistol start on that map. That way if the level is kind of busted and not really conducive to a pistol start, I can just load the save and proceed "naturally" (if that makes sense).
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Feb 18, 2024 05:00
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Takes No Damage posted:
Yeah, if you have that binding it would accomplish the same thing. Me? I'm butterfingers enough I know I'd hit that at the very end of a 10 minute slaughter and kill my will to play. Same effect, but safer for me to not do accidentally.
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Feb 18, 2024 05:22
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Arivia posted:Yeah, if you have that binding it would accomplish the same thing. Me? I'm butterfingers enough I know I'd hit that at the very end of a 10 minute slaughter and kill my will to play. Same effect, but safer for me to not do accidentally. Ah fair enough. I made mine F12 to reduce the possibility of an accidental reset, but I also have a mod running that autosaves at certain intervals/events so I should never lose more than a few minutes progress either way. Cream-of-Plenty posted:If I'm understanding it correctly, Arivia's talking about a thing I also do: when I finish a level and start the next, I've still got all of my stuff from the previous level. I'll usually make an immediate "level start" save at this point, and then idclev myself into a pistol start on that map. That way if the level is kind of busted and not really conducive to a pistol start, I can just load the save and proceed "naturally" (if that makes sense). Also not a bad idea, if you're playing through something that really expects continuous play. In the end, Doom is a land of contrasts.
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Feb 18, 2024 07:15
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Arivia posted:perfect (Toxic Touch)  Arivia posted:amazing (Misri Halek) gently caress you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Feb 18, 2024 07:49
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Arivia posted:I AV has a ton of misses, if you're not aware it has like 3 different versions with different maps moved around and some have just been weeded out of the set over time. Original version had an exe launcher to run the wad, that was quickly replaced by the version with just the wad file. A year later the 'compet-n' version was released which swapped in Clandestine complex at map24 at the expense of Valley of Echoes and had bug fixes and some maps visually improved (by Kim I think?). So just one map was removed.
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Feb 18, 2024 21:29
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Playing Auger;Zenith, good fun, might do a review when I'm done, but man I can tell that the mappers were trying really hard to make a Spider Mastermind encounter that was fun and interesting and it just never seems to work. Feels bad, its the sole enemy in the Doom roster that just doesn't quite click (unless the Icon of Sin counts, and that's in a much worse position), its really hard to make them fun and interesting to fight and in 30 years of maps people still haven't found a way to slot it into the overall combat loop of the game. The best use for the Mastermind consistently seems to be when its deliberately exploited for Monster Infighting, but at that point the player isn't really fighting it, if anything its an asset for the player to have one around killing everything else, and I can tell when people are trying to make the process of the player actually fighting the Mastermind more interesting. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 01:36
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It feels weird to just have 3 of the lowest tier enemies be hitscan, then skip up to the final boss. Soldiers work because they die pretty fast, but you can't really fight or engage with a Mastermind in any meaningful way because you're just constantly getting chipped down whenever you're in her sight. So you either cheese her with the BFG or don't engage at all and wait for her to infight to death.
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Feb 19, 2024 05:19
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Let's be honest: trying to improve the mastermind to make it actually work as an enemy is basically what gave us the arachnotron and chaingunner, splitting the tanky spider with a high-damage weapon and hitscanner with a fully automatic weapon into two enemies, leaving the OG spider in its original niche of an "oh poo poo" spectacle.
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Feb 19, 2024 06:41
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Looking back at the IWADs, the spiderdemon was used even more sparingly than the cyberdemon. id and later TNT understood her niche as a stationary turret, basically indestructible, the biggest threat in any encounter by thousands of map units. Even Plutonia on UV has 23 cybers and only four spiders.
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Feb 19, 2024 10:49
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Captain Walker posted:Looking back at the IWADs, the spiderdemon was used even more sparingly than the cyberdemon. id and later TNT understood her niche as a stationary turret, basically indestructible, the biggest threat in any encounter by thousands of map units. Even Plutonia on UV has 23 cybers and only four spiders. The Cyberdemon is fundamentally dynamic in a way that the Mastermind unfortunately isn't, its why he's such a fixture in almost every Wad. He has an exceptionally dangerous but easy to read projectile attack that rewards the player's footwork to avoid his fire, while his splash damage means you have to consider your spacing since if it hits a wall behind you you'll probably just die anyway from the explosion. Even with the BFG he's got enough health that he can usually shrug off three or four shots, so you can't rely on instakilling him with the best weapon in the game, but there's an additional risk/reward built into that since you can attempt a very risky manoeuvre of blasting him right in the face to cut it down to two shots, if you can time it between his shots so you aren't splattered. His difficulty can be softened or increased with the map design, a big open map with lots of cover is 'easy mode', a tight corridor is much more difficult though not bullshit hard and means you have to really get down his firing rhythm to move between shots, you can also simply add more Cybers to increase the difficulty with even more rockets flying around at all kinds of angles. And to top it all off he's a beast in infighting, but his shots remain very dangerous to the player even when directed at other entities so you can't just ignore him while he's popping revenants. Most of these qualities the Mastermind doesn't have, you can't really avoid her attack and fight it in the open with good enough movement, she dies in a single BFG shot so you don't really have any reason not to get all in her face to let rip. The nature of hitscan means the only thing that really makes a difference arena wise is if there's a way to break her Line of Sight, and even in cases without much cover you'll probably be ok with at least a plasma gun and perhaps even a super shotgun since she has a high pain chance to interrupt her attacks. She can't really be used in groups since the hitscan attack means she'll start fighting the other Spider Mastermind, which makes it a lot harder to increase the difficulty associated with her. Not to mention its very easy to get shots into her without her being able to attack back since she's so big you can usually have sight on one of her legs behind cover without her able to see you. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 22:29
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When looking up the spiderdemon's stats I read about the planned magic attack that was scrapped because id couldn't decide what it should actually be, and that the Olivia fight at the end of 2016 implemented some of their initial ideas. Frankly I was surprised because I've beaten 2016 and I don't remember basically anything from that fight other than "Olivia mutates into the spider mastermind". The arena was weirdly tiny, I think? The music wasn't as frantic or memorable as E3M8? There might have been a finishing animation using the BFG at point blank, a pointed but not unkind reminder of how the 1994 version of this fight was even more anticlimactic?
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Feb 20, 2024 00:45
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khwarezm posted:F Tier Her giant hitbox is what allows lucky BFG attacks to 1-shot her, and also makes it likely that a smaller monster will clip into it while trying to infight and freeze her. Luv 2 watch a single imp claw down a mastermind for 3 minutes. Captain Walker posted:When looking up the spiderdemon's stats I read about the planned magic attack that was scrapped because id couldn't decide what it should actually be, and that the Olivia fight at the end of 2016 implemented some of their initial ideas. Frankly I was surprised because I've beaten 2016 and I don't remember basically anything from that fight other than "Olivia mutates into the spider mastermind". The arena was weirdly tiny, I think? The music wasn't as frantic or memorable as E3M8? There might have been a finishing animation using the BFG at point blank, a pointed but not unkind reminder of how the 1994 version of this fight was even more anticlimactic? I remember a bunch of moving pillars you had to climb and/or hide behind to avoid her attacks, kind of like the cyber's movement puzzle fight but with cover. By far the best spider fight we've gotten in Doom, but still pretty meh compared to the rest of the bestiary.
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Feb 20, 2024 01:37
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Captain Walker posted:When looking up the spiderdemon's stats I read about the planned magic attack that was scrapped because id couldn't decide what it should actually be, and that the Olivia fight at the end of 2016 implemented some of their initial ideas. Frankly I was surprised because I've beaten 2016 and I don't remember basically anything from that fight other than "Olivia mutates into the spider mastermind". The arena was weirdly tiny, I think? The music wasn't as frantic or memorable as E3M8? There might have been a finishing animation using the BFG at point blank, a pointed but not unkind reminder of how the 1994 version of this fight was even more anticlimactic? Oh, man, I adored that. I genuinely think it’s the best boss fight id managed until the Doom Hunter in Eternal. Multiple stages, lots of weaponry, high hit point pool, and that crunchy-rear end synth metal. This many years out it’s the track I’ve listened to most on that soundtrack, just so good. No, I’m not trolling. The Spider Mastermind in Doom 2016 was viscerally satisfying, especially since it leads immediately to the last time Samuel Hayden was written well: as a pragmatic, egotistical poo poo who thinks he’s bound to succeed where everyone else has failed, and flings you away after he’s used you.
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Feb 20, 2024 01:48
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Hasturtium posted:it leads immediately to the last time Samuel Hayden was written well: as a pragmatic, egotistical poo poo who thinks he’s bound to succeed where everyone else has failed, and flings you away after he’s used you. 
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Feb 20, 2024 03:15
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I forget if I've posted about it in here before but the Imp Zone forum made a 25 level community pack last october and I finally got off my rear end and finished putting the whole package together! You can check out the release thread here and I'll include the download link below. Its 25 levels by 17 different authors (16 first timers, I ran the project and contributed 3 levels myself). The amount of ambition for first time mappers, especially under a time constraint, was awesome to see and we had a blast putting this all together. hope you enjoy! Download link
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Feb 20, 2024 04:14
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finished map 16 sunder whispers of the gnarled king, what an annoying map to do cleanup on for the last fight. Tons of death pits, lost souls flying around to knock you into the pits. I just ate poo poo over and over lol, even after killing the archviles. For sure this isn't the last time I'll make a sunder complaint of that nature. Items whatever but that 99% annoys me, couple dudes left behind  Brolander fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 05:03
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In Training posted:I forget if I've posted about it in here before but the Imp Zone forum made a 25 level community pack last october and I finally got off my rear end and finished putting the whole package together! cool, i'll give it a whirl.
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Feb 20, 2024 09:41
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In Training posted:I forget if I've posted about it in here before but the Imp Zone forum made a 25 level community pack last october and I finally got off my rear end and finished putting the whole package together! Hell yeah, looks like fun
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Feb 20, 2024 11:46
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The Imp Pack is a blast. I bowed out early because I bounced hard off UDB (I'm a veteran Morrowind modder so figured some skills would translate, but I think it being way more of a "blank canvass" just shut my brain down) and I'm glad I didn't just fart out something for completions sake, because the average quality is incredible for a bunch of disparate first timers. P Mack and Sub Actuality's maps are genuinely great
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Feb 20, 2024 12:54
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i am now in Impo's Domain
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Feb 20, 2024 17:03
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Szymanski posted:Original version had an exe launcher to run the wad, that was quickly replaced by the version with just the wad file. A year later the 'compet-n' version was released which swapped in Clandestine complex at map24 at the expense of Valley of Echoes and had bug fixes and some maps visually improved (by Kim I think?). So just one map was removed. There's also the Black Label version which replaced the first two maps with new ones by Brad Spencer in 2016. In Training posted:I forget if I've posted about it in here before but the Imp Zone forum made a 25 level community pack last october and I finally got off my rear end and finished putting the whole package together! hell yeah, I'll give this a go!
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Feb 20, 2024 18:20
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Arivia posted:There's also the Black Label version which replaced the first two maps with new ones by Brad Spencer in 2016. Black Label is an addon, it might get bigger in the future but it's not a replacement or upgrade to AV
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Feb 20, 2024 18:46
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Brolander posted:i am now in Impo's Domain Good luck. It's a blend of fairly straightforward and very gimmicky maps. Curious to hear your thoughts as you play
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Feb 20, 2024 23:19
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In Training posted:Good luck. It's a blend of fairly straightforward and very gimmicky maps. Curious to hear your thoughts as you play so far I'm having a good time. Radiohead was funny but next map's track kicking in was a lmao I got cocky on the first map as I've been working on sunder, "surely ill poo poo all o'er this" and DIED 1st try lol, to the shotgun-guarding spectre I left alive that finally made it up the stairs and blocked my escape from one of the hallways Map 2 was nice enough, I kind of wanted just a scosche more? But map 2 are supposed to be small I guess Map 3 is okay, if you get the fairly obvious secrets you're way oversupplied. The hairiest part would be the part with the Mancubus, but with the narrow bridge it's just kind of watching demons kill each other. Maybe if they teleported behind you? I'm not sure exactly what was going on with the killing of the pinky in the cage, if you leave it alive you get a rocket launcher but then can't get 100% kills since the window closes? I guess is the tradeoff? But not much left to kill with a launcher by the time you get to that point. I guess it'd be cool to start next map with RL if you're playing continuously (I'm pistol start) Map 4, I like that it releases pinkies when you get the chainsaw. Plasma gun fight could be hairy if you don't just dip back out the hallway--anytime there's pinkies and lost souls together getting spoiled is a possibility. Red key door fight has a very old school feel to it with the grassy expanse and simplicity. Whee run in circles Map 5: hahahaha. weird moment where i didn't have all kills and found a lost soul in the room before the PE/Imp/Skelly room, somehow got behind me Map 6: For extra fun I just kept banging on switches until the whole fortune cookie opened and filled up. Only 3 of 4 secrets, have a suspicion I was supposed to arch vile jump to the box of shells? Map 7: Initially I hosed up by pressing the red and blue skull buttons before going downstairs to the left, meaning I was trying to negotiate that side of the map while being rocketed by the skeletons that appear. Overall encounters are spicy but pretty clear simple objectives. optional fight, sighed with relief when those AV got crushed instead of freed my fav so far Map 8: Kept Ya Waiting...for what? A good map to start? Ha ha I am kidding, I've never even tried to make a map so I cannot judge too harshly. But I did not look for nor find any secrets, just the exit if that says anything. It did feel sort of like a prank. I expected to be able to jump into the sky at the end John Romero punchout was a good time, haven't flexed that muscle in a while. Map 11, I enjoyed the 1 mancubus turning into 3, and the rising columns of sky was a Whoa moment Map 12 is one of the best maps I've ever played, period. Big fan of shapes over here. Start applies pressure without relying on 1000 flying reverend missiles. Shifting terrain, "oo that's sick" a couple times. One of the end bosses got stuck on a bridge, which was funny but made the fight a little easier. Only got one secret on this map Map 13, i was just wondering if people still made tyson maps. Fun! It's fun to punch! I think this could be a good map to speedrun This is getting to be a huge post so I'll make a new one for any more progress Brolander fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 18:13
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Szymanski posted:Black Label is an addon, it might get bigger in the future but it's not a replacement or upgrade to AV Black Label might get more maps? Big (maps) if true. For real though I'm curious where that info comes from.
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Feb 21, 2024 23:27
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Went back and finished up EV2. Glad I did. Really enjoyed the castle segment. Playing a bit of Impo's
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Feb 22, 2024 00:27
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I dehacked a little guy, I think it's kinda cute. Smaller hitbox than a lost soul but as much health, shoots imp fireballs.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:34
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LeschNyhan posted:I dehacked a little guy, I think it's kinda cute. I like it! Where can I play with one?
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Feb 22, 2024 00:37
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LeschNyhan posted:I dehacked a little guy, I think it's kinda cute. this is what sigil has been training us to fight Romero knew
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Feb 22, 2024 01:10
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Only one step away from mimics in Doom where you press Use on a switch and it comes alive and attacks you 
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Feb 22, 2024 02:21
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Imagine the sound of a doom door continuously opening and closing as it lounges after you. I love it.
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Feb 22, 2024 04:59
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Takes No Damage posted:Only one step away from mimics in Doom where you press Use on a switch and it comes alive and attacks you It's been done. Just not quite exactly in the way you describe: Doom Wiki posted:Arch-viles disguise themselves as medikits in order to surprise their enemy.
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Feb 22, 2024 06:22
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khwarezm posted:Playing Auger;Zenith, good fun, might do a review when I'm done, but man I can tell that the mappers were trying really hard to make a Spider Mastermind encounter that was fun and interesting and it just never seems to work. I'm still cruising through the Doom Board Projects, them being mostly 6-8 maps long is helping keep things fresh. Just cleared 05 and so far they've all been pretty good, only 1 map has been a real stinker IMO (0308) and the author even admits they didn't really know how to finish it off in the release thread. So far 2 maps have really stood out to me: DBP04: Xenomorph Base MAP03: Spiral Edge DBP05: Coffin Curse MAP06: Trenchgore Both by SuperCupcakeTactics Both these maps feature frantic openings where you're bombarded with enemies and you don't have the ammo to deal with them so you run forward to try and find supplies but that just triggers more monsters  They both remind me of some of my favorite Going Down maps where you constantly feel like you're about to be overwhelmed but you're actually not, the steady stream of new contact and light starting resources just makes it feel that way. Cupcake contributes to a lot of DBPs and has run 3 or 4, including Auger Zenith, if they keep this up I'll have to take a look at more stuff they've done.Mak0rz posted:It's been done. Just not quite exactly in the way you describe: If you made them deaf and blind would they only activate when you touched them? If so that's pretty much a perfect Doom Mimic 
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Feb 22, 2024 06:43
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That's exactly how they work in that wad, iirc.
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Feb 22, 2024 07:28
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Doctor Bishop posted:For real though I'm curious where that info comes from. Trust me bro I've played them
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Feb 22, 2024 18:38
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I am very happy to be over the MAP32 hump in Eviternity, despite it and MAP19 being about the same length of IGT, 19 felt like a breezy blast! Loved this level, and i rarely have the patience for such huge sprawling architecture. Are there many more massive maps like that though? Entering the final 2 acts I really hope that proclivity is behind the mappers, idk if I could stomach 2 more like 90 minute monsters in these final 10 levels.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:31
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In Training posted:I am very happy to be over the MAP32 hump in Eviternity, despite it and MAP19 being about the same length of IGT, 19 felt like a breezy blast! Loved this level, and i rarely have the patience for such huge sprawling architecture. There are three more large levels, but I don’t think any of them are on the length of MAP19 or 32. One of them is Mechadon doing his usual unfolding box trick, one is a very fun garden trip, and the last is MAP29.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:46
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