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Bad Munki posted:Doesn't the reset also have to be readily accessible? So like, a ceiling outlet for a garage door opener would be up against two conflicting needs? Or would that just be expected to be GFCI protected somewhere else, such as at the breaker? Yep, GFCI protected elsewhere, at the breaker box or upstream at an accessible point in the garage. For my house, with a detached garage, this was accomplished by putting a GFCI receptacle on the side of the house in a weatherproof box, feeding the power line (in underground conduit) to my detached garage. If anything gets fishy in the garage, that GFCI trips and it's accessible. If this situation was for an attached garage, the assigned breaker could be GFCI, or one of the upstream receptacles inside the house/garage could be converted to GFCI and protect the garage. Assuming this garage wasn't drywalled, it would be easy to figure out where the wire feeds the first receptacle and simply convert that to a GFCI. If drywalled, maybe not so easy.
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Feb 8, 2024 23:51
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Our kitchen at work has these installed for hard to reach outlets, for example the outlet behind the fridge and one where a coffee machine would presumably go and be plumbed. The GFCIs are located next to the sink. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-20-Amp-125-Volt-Combo-Self-Test-Blank-Face-GFCI-Outlet-White-R98-GFRBF-0KW/206001151
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Feb 8, 2024 23:58
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StormDrain posted:Our kitchen at work has these installed for hard to reach outlets, for example the outlet behind the fridge and one where a coffee machine would presumably go and be plumbed. The GFCIs are located next to the sink. I assume it's some scenario where the protected outlet is required to be a dedicated circuit? Otherwise why go to the trouble of installing that and not just have an outlet there too, never too many outlets
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Feb 9, 2024 00:14
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shame on an IGA posted:I assume it's some scenario where the protected outlet is required to be a dedicated circuit? Otherwise why go to the trouble of installing that and not just have an outlet there too, never too many outlets When you need a protected machine outlet like for a refrigerator or garage door opener you can make a pretty logical decision that you don't want to share that protection with other outlets that could trip it and cause issues. It doesn't have to be an entire dedicated circuit. If I had only one circuit going to my countertop as well as something like a refreigerator that I was required to GFCI protect I'd absolutely want them seperately protected.
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Feb 9, 2024 00:22
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I had seen this in an acquaintance's new house a few weeks ago and wondered what it was, took this picture meaning to ask and forgot. It was just in the middle of the wall in the master bathroom, half way between the shower and the door. I guess this discussion answers that question.
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Feb 9, 2024 15:33
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I presume this is a frame portrait of a gfci. Acrylic on canvas. $200.
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Feb 9, 2024 16:43
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ugh my child could do that
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Feb 9, 2024 16:54
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All it needs it a few candles and you have The Patron Saint of Sparkies
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Feb 9, 2024 18:05
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wolrah posted:I had seen this in an acquaintance's new house a few weeks ago and wondered what it was, took this picture meaning to ask and forgot. It was just in the middle of the wall in the master bathroom, half way between the shower and the door. That's amazing. If it was me I'd swap it for a white one with white buttons with a white cover instead of calling such attention to it.
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Feb 9, 2024 19:17
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Feb 9, 2024 20:10
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H110Hawk posted:I presume this is a frame portrait of a gfci. Acrylic on canvas. $200. Nice. NFT available?
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Feb 10, 2024 04:15
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Hed posted:Nice. NFT available? Yes, 1 BTC. Send it over and I'll mint you an NFT.
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Feb 10, 2024 04:21
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After investigating what it would take to properly install a smart thermostat, I discovered that the prerequisite to proper control of my 2 stage furnace is pulling new 6 position thermostat wire to replace the OG 5 wire (loving lazy installers  ). Is there a thread favorite wire monger? 18/6 is only available in 250' spools locally, and I only need 100.
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Feb 11, 2024 19:39
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:After investigating what it would take to properly install a smart thermostat, I discovered that the prerequisite to proper control of my 2 stage furnace is pulling new 6 position thermostat wire to replace the OG 5 wire (loving lazy installers I pulled if off with a five wire cable. What I did was use the four wire retrofit "power extender kit" kit that came with my EcoBee to run the basic controls over four wires and then repurposed the now unused 5th wire as the W2 2nd stage heat control.
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Feb 11, 2024 19:44
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I am looking at 2-pole AFCI circuit breakers to protect a multiwire circuit that feeds most of my upstairs. Currently the two circuits in a QO sub panel, but they were originally in a BR main panel. There are short lengths of THHN wire connecting the ends of the NM cable in the main panel to the breakers in sub panel. There is plenty of room in the main panel, the sub panel was originally behind a transfer switch for standby generator that wasn't capable of running the whole house. A 2-pole 15A QO AFCI breaker (QO220CAFIC) is loving $600+ dollars from a reputable local supply house, and is either similar prices online or out of stock. An Eaton 2-pole 15A BR AFCI breaker (BRL215CAF) is $140-160 from various regional electrical supply shops. Is there any reason whatsoever to not simply move the circuits back to the main panel? I have an outside disconnect to completely de-energize both panels, so I'm comfortable tracing and pulling out the THHN.
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Feb 13, 2024 19:12
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_looks_ like it's in stock here? https://www.standardelectricsupply.com/Square-D-QO215CAFI-QO-Combination-Miniature-Arc-Fault-Circuit-Breaker?criteria=QO215CAFIC
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Feb 13, 2024 19:35
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Shifty Pony posted:I am looking at 2-pole AFCI circuit breakers to protect a multiwire circuit that feeds most of my upstairs. Currently the two circuits in a QO sub panel, but they were originally in a BR main panel. There are short lengths of THHN wire connecting the ends of the NM cable in the main panel to the breakers in sub panel. There is plenty of room in the main panel, the sub panel was originally behind a transfer switch for standby generator that wasn't capable of running the whole house. Hahahaahahahahahaha I literally just went through this after discovering my dishwasher and disposal were somehow still a MWBC even though the kitchen was supposedly redone studs-up in 2005, and I ended up ordering the QO215CAFI for $122 from Dominion Electric Supply, which only delivers to Virginia and Maryland (where I am decidedly not), having them deliver to my brother, and paying UPS $20 to ship it across the country. I'm fairly sure it was NOT in stock at Standard Electric Supply per the above post, since I searched high and low for a place that wasn't charging, quote, MSRP (thanks Schneider for having literally the highest MSRP:street price ratio of any company ever) and didn't find it at Standard Electric. Anyway they're not completely unobtainable, just mostly unobtainable. On the plus side, you're pretty much guaranteed to get a fairly new breaker (mine was made I think in the 48th week of 2023), because there simply aren't a lot made apparently.
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Feb 14, 2024 00:32
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I ordered one from Standard, so we will see. I got excited for a second about you linking Dominion Electric Supply, but turns out the local supply shop I was thinking of is Old Dominion Electric Supply.
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Feb 14, 2024 01:29
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It turned out that Standard Electric Supply actually didn't have it in stock and had a 10 to 12 week backorder. I found another electric supply shop that did have it in stock at the actual price that people pay for them and not the crazy inflated MSRP. According to UPS it should come tomorrow.
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Feb 15, 2024 18:20
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In my 1960’s house I have an outlet in the kitchen where it looks like someone strung a bare ground wire from one more-recent circuit (80’s?) through a couple stud bays to another outlet that only has the original 1960’s 12/2 (with no ground) NM cable in it. The outlets are on separate breakers. So the PO seems to have effectively provided a ground to the original 60’s outlet using this jumper wire from the newer circuit. The newer 80’s outlet uses what I’d call “modern” NM 12/2 w/ ground wire as far as I can trace it from the kitchen though the attic and back to where it enters the wall for the final run to the main panel, so it looks like that part of the 80’s wiring is done correctly. Is passing that ground wire as a bare wire (no insulation at all) between the two circuits safe? It’s all behind drywall. I figure it’s probably okay (but maybe not ideal under modern code) since the ground is not meant to normally carry current, and those grounds would all end up back at the same point in the electrical panel anyhow. It should be providing that alternative path in case a neutral fails or whatever, even if the ground from the 60’s outlet is joining and running through a separate run of Romex back to the panel, no?
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Feb 17, 2024 18:18
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Rat Poisson posted:In my 1960’s house I have an outlet in the kitchen where it looks like someone strung a bare ground wire from one more-recent circuit (80’s?) through a couple stud bays to another outlet that only has the original 1960’s 12/2 (with no ground) NM cable in it. The outlets are on separate breakers. So the PO seems to have effectively provided a ground to the original 60’s outlet using this jumper wire from the newer circuit. The newer 80’s outlet uses what I’d call “modern” NM 12/2 w/ ground wire as far as I can trace it from the kitchen though the attic and back to where it enters the wall for the final run to the main panel, so it looks like that part of the 80’s wiring is done correctly. Believe it or not, that's actually a code legal 3 prong upgrade method. You can run bare or green jacketed grounds to ungrounded outlets to upgrade them to 3 prong ones. Note: it has to be of appropriate size for that circuit: 14# for 15 amp circuits and 12# for 20 amp circuits.
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Feb 17, 2024 22:55
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Long post, but probably my last non-reply post in this thread unless I move. After 6 years (this last year entirely spent waiting for PG&E to get off their rear end and pull new cable from the street - it was technically 54 weeks from when I told them I was prepared to when the cable got pulled), as of this last week my, uh, "panel upgrade" is finally complete. Oldnbusted: 125 amp Federal Pacific main panel, 100 amp FPE garage subpanel, and 60 amp QO backyard panel, aluminum feeder wire New split phase hotness, see what I did there: 200A+200A CSED main panel with 200A main lug aux panel underneath it, 125A replacement garage subpanel plus additional new 100A garage subpanel, QO 60A backyard replacement panel, all copper wiring including feeders All panels QO except Homeline CSED (don't ask, I was ignorant of Schneider's absurd markups at the time and thought their listed MSRP of $7000 for the QO version must be accurate), CAFCI branch breakers everywhere except the dryer (1970s wiring, so no ground whatsoever), 20 or so new outlets plus replacing / rewiring about 10 more, Siemens FirstSurge WH surge suppressors on both 200A branches, and upgrade to 400 amp (320 amp continuous) service. Plus extra "you did what? why?" absurdities like Cadwelding the two 3/4" 10-foot ground rods, Permasleeve heatshrink labels on all wires in panels, and engraved acrylic plates for breaker labeling. Technically the dryer needs GFCI by current code but I was just mentally finished with the project and didn't want to run a new wire, and the inspector didn't care one bit - he commented he hadn't seen many of the CAFCI breakers yet so I suspect my AHJ is still stuck on 2017 code or something. As long as no dumbass appliance installer undoes the bonding jumper on a dryer I should be fine.  (I'm a little annoyed because having to replace the CAFCI breaker I'd put in with a regular breaker on the dryer when I discovered there was no ground meant screwing up the nice right angles on that wiring since the normal breaker is half the length, but sucks to my ocdmar. Also, I may be redoing where the laundry goes anyway in a few years, so at that point I'll run the wire). I want to thank this thread in general for helping me out at various points, whether it was directly responding to my posts or other posts that helped me understand more about how to do electricianing safely and correctly. Special shoutout to Elviscat who responded to one of my earlier posts proudly showing off the main CSED wiring with "the bushing on that nipple needs to be a grounding one" - deflated my ego something fierce and pissed me the gently caress off (because of the 3/0 running through that nipple which I VERY much did not want to pull back out), until I learned of the existence of split-ring bushings. To be clear I am actually thanking you, because it was helpful criticism and made me think even more carefully about what I was doing from then on, and I drat well made sure to use grounding bushings in any other situations that needed them (and BEFORE running wires through them). Fun fact, the inspector said at the rough inspection "you didn't really need that to be a grounding bushing", but know what, I'm happy I have it and it makes more sense to me to rely on that than the lock nut biting through the paint of the panel for grounding that nipple. The inspector also told me during the final inspection this past week "I've been doing this for 10 years and I took photos of your work and sent them to my colleagues, because this is some of the best work I've seen in all that time, including commercial", which was really nice to hear. I mean, yeah, if you are obsessive and take your time working in piecemeal chunks over 5 years it turns out you can do neater work than pro electricians who need to get the job done in a few days and are not being paid to spend time neatening wires and heatshrinking labels onto them. I have no illusions that it's "better" work - it might be a better result but it took me far longer and with much more effort than a pro would expend. But still, nice to get some validation from the AHJ as a non-pro, and hopefully not be a Gary to the next owner. Couple final pictures of the main panel and garage subpanel wired up.   (Don't @ me about the zipties. Also, Elviscat, if you comment on anything wrong I will punch you). (Not really, thanks buddy  )
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Feb 18, 2024 23:21
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That looks completely amazing. Well done. The marks on all the home runs and the cable markers are  .Cut all the cable ties off in six months after the cables have formed to their own shape.
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Feb 19, 2024 01:35
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I have a vaulted kitchen ceiling with no attic access. There is a skylight in this ceiling. There used to be some weird fixture that went all the way around the inside of the skylight jamb that had like Christmas tree lights on it. It was hilarious/awful and is now gone. What I’m left with is romex coming out of one end of the jamb with no box (see pic- not sure if jamb is the correct term here but I’m referring to the finished trim area between ceiling and skylight glass) that is wired to a switch on one side of the room. My wife is wanting to mount a hanging pendant from inside the skylight BUT the three wire is coming out on the wrong end (we need it to come out of the opposite end to center over the kitchen island). So, the question is, how do I get to a situation where I can hang a pendant light from the opposite end of the skylight?  I’m comfortable doing basic wiring on my own (there’s nothing complicated here from a wiring schematic perspective that I couldn’t tackle) but I’m in option paralysis on this one as far as practical difficulty/time involved since I haven’t really fished to much wire through insulation in my life, thankfully. Here are the options I’ve come up with so far - hardest to easiest. Option 1: fish a new run from the switch to the skylight. This might not even be realistically possible since there is no attic access here. I’d have to fish up an interior wall, make the turn into ceiling somehow where I’d have to fish through ceiling insulation and over the apex of the roof and then down to the skylight. The house was a custom build from 1978 and there is a visible ridge beam in the living area that is also have to traverse but it’s not at the apex so how they framed everything inside this ceiling is a complete mystery to me and it feels like this would just be a nightmare to try to do this potentially. Option 2: throw a pancake box with a blank plate up where the romex is currently exiting the jamb (off center unfortunately since the romex is coming through off to one corner) , junction in a new run of wire that I fish in the ceiling around the skylight to the opposite end where I install another pancake box and I hang my pendant light. Seems easier than option 1 but there’s still 2-3 turns that I would have to make and insulation and headers to deal with so I also don’t really consider this a very viable option. Option 3: throw a pancake box up where the existing romex is with a blank plate, but do a new run on the INSIDE of the jamb (ie in the living area) via rigid conduit to the other end of the skylight. Maybe put a little 1” trim ledge around the entire inside of the skylight and run the conduit on top of that to conceal it from the ground? This could look janky with a pancake junction box + some weird ledge around the inside plus at night you would probably still see the conduit in the reflection of the skylight glass I’m guessing - though maybe nobody will realistically look up and notice… Option 4: blank plate pancake box existing romex, new run to opposite end of the skylight, but instead of fishing or conduit, remove ceiling trim (the 1x5s in the pic) around one side and both ends, route a small channel around the skylight in the ceiling Sheetrock where I’d run romex and then reinstall trim over the top of the channel. I think 4 is the best mix of feasibility and aesthetics, but would it be permissible under code? If 4 isn’t permissible I’d do 3 and see what it looks like. If it looked like hot garbage then I guess I could try 2. Thoughts/other ideas? If anyone has any idea how this was framed and whether option 2 is easier than I’m thinking that would be helpful to know.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:40
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I'd do it on the surface with wiremold
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Feb 19, 2024 16:59
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I feel like I'm missing something when "new ron from the switch" is even a consideration, but if that were my job to do I'd open the ceiling around the existing inproperly terminated romex and see what's there. If I can get it to where I need it I'd pull the trim and open the ceiling and install a fan box or other sturdy appropiate box for a hanging fixture and pull the romex to it then patch drywall. If the existing romex won't make it to the new location this is the perfect use case for a tyco splice.
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Feb 19, 2024 19:31
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Fuckin tidy.
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Feb 19, 2024 19:44
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That panel work is not as clean as a few I've seen but it's both cleaner and better labeled than mine, and in the top 95% of panels I've ever seen or been in. Great work. This is about how mine ended up. My utility foot dragging time was much less, only a few months, and my inspector had a similar reaction. He went from "this guy sure is asking a lot of stupid questions about NEC article 250 on the phone I don't know if he can do this" to telling me I would definitely pass and my power would probably be back on same-day after one look. Outside panel:  I didn't think this would comply with 250.64(F)(3) so I upgraded to something that would to avoid it being a question:   All stainless hardware with rectorseal #5 on the threads and under the nut to avoid the holes I drilled rusting:  Power was cut in the morning for final cut-in of the last work (the last 6 feet of conduit and the feeders from the outside panel to the inside panel, which previously had been the service disconnect)  And after a frantic rushed day of finishing the conduit and doing a full panel cleanup since I needed to get the feeders under all that mess anyways:  It wasn't perfect, but it also was a lot better than the rats nest it had previously morphed into over many years of incremental upgrades, and since I did this in December '22 in the only two consecutive days of above freezing weather with no backup in place, I kind of wanted the power back on same day if possible so my pipes wouldn't freeze. Had inspection done at 4pm and power back on by 7. I am buying a plug-on neutral panel next time. Whole album: https://imgur.com/a/U9ne5lc
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Feb 20, 2024 03:01
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wesleywillis posted:A hydraulics shop should sell O rings of the correct size for cheap.
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Feb 20, 2024 22:47
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I did some googling and it sounds like this melts o-rings? What melts o rings? That exact product or silicone grease? Because silicone grease is what you're supposed to be using. I use super lube because it's available locally and food grade (for plumbing) but it also gets used for autmotive applications.
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Feb 20, 2024 22:52
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Motronic posted:What melts o rings? That exact product or silicone grease? Because silicone grease is what you're supposed to be using. I use super lube because it's available locally and food grade (for plumbing) but it also gets used for autmotive applications.  Also, hilariously I can't seem to find the o-rings from McMaster-Carr. I used calipers, they are 7.5mm ID, CS 1.5mm. Idk I don't know anything about electronics please shovel hot coals into my anus
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Feb 20, 2024 23:08
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Dielectric grease is also fine. A connector style like that picture with an o-ring by definition doesn't need dielectric grease on the contacts. The point of putting it on contacts is to stop them from getting moisture/dirt/rusting/corroding. Since the connector is already sealed there is no need.
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Feb 20, 2024 23:11
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Also, hilariously I can't seem to find the o-rings from McMaster-Carr. I used calipers, they are 7.5mm ID, CS 1.5mm. Does this link work? https://www.mcmaster.com/products/o-rings/system-of-measurement~metric/width~1-500-mm/id~7-500-mm/
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Feb 20, 2024 23:16
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I mean, would it add another layer of safety? The whole issue here is that there is water shooting all over this thing and eventually its gonna fail one way or anotherjammyozzy posted:Does this link work? https://www.mcmaster.com/products/o-rings/system-of-measurement~metric/width~1-500-mm/id~7-500-mm/
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Feb 20, 2024 23:17
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I mean, would it add another layer of safety? The whole issue here is that there is water shooting all over this thing and eventually its gonna fail one way or another I forgot that was your issue/use case. If the contacts are spade type and therefore self-cleaning it's certainly not going to hurt. You could even try packing the connector with it. Also, on o rings......does this set have what you need in it? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QFVCNSN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 I have that and a few others just because it's an easy way to keep that stuff in stock. Ordering from mcmaster might end up costing you just as much for one or 2 o rings plus shipping as that whole box of them.
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Feb 20, 2024 23:20
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Motronic posted:I forgot that was your issue/use case. If the contacts are spade type and therefore self-cleaning it's certainly not going to hurt. You could even try packing the connector with it.  Motronic posted:Also, on o rings......does this set have what you need in it? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QFVCNSN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 I have that and a few others just because it's an easy way to keep that stuff in stock. Ordering from mcmaster might end up costing you just as much for one or 2 o rings plus shipping as that whole box of them.
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Feb 21, 2024 16:26
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:It's actually a barrel connector. How would I go about using the stuff on it - should I shoot it inside each side of the barrel? Should I slather it on the outside of the tip? ohh yeeaaahh baby Yeah, no. Don't use it on that.
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Feb 21, 2024 17:17
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Hi home electrical thread. I just bought a house and I'm dealing with ridiculous amounts of EMI in my home studio. I've checked all the obvious stuff so now I'm going down the rabbit hole and discovered some very noisy current in the water main coming into the basement. It varies but right now it's reading about 700mA according to my clamp meter. I'm assuming this is a big part of my noise issue but it's also clearly a safety issue, what can/should I do with this information to have zero amps in my water pipes? I'm a stupid baby so what I'm asking is who do I call who will take this seriously? I feel like the city will think I'm just some EMI wacko and ignore me but I don't know if a private electrician can do anything if this is an issue that spans the entire block.
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Feb 22, 2024 04:13
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Maybe there's an irregular short to ground somewhere, which is being earthed through your water pipes? I guess you could try shutting off circuit breakers in your panel, and seeing if any of them fix the issue.
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Feb 22, 2024 04:22
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Yeah, if you have a metal water pipe it's required by NEC 250.104 to be bonded to your electrical grounding system so you can't just isolate it to make it stop. I would do what TooMuchAbstraction said. Flip half the breakers off, if the noise stops, turn half of them back on, if it doesn't, turn them back on and turn half of the other half back off, etc etc until you find the one breaker that is powering whatever is at fault then work through the devices and connections on that one circuit. "Divide and conquer" is usually the fastest search algorithm for stuff like this.
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Feb 22, 2024 05:08
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