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Toaster Beef posted:Rust and Marty doing awful poo poo in their capacities as police gets excused by the implicit morality of the show because they're actively doing detective work and chasing down leads and getting closer to resolving the case. Maybe this is what you meant, but I don't think S1 excuses their awful choices and is better for it. It shows them both suffer and cause a lot of suffering because of their actions, but aside from the Rust's drug use it, they're protagonists in spite of and not because of those vices. Still thinking about the show, so that's a nice sign at least. I could be mis-remembering, but I think they were going for an angle where the spiral and flat circle stuff is just a philosophy/religion you can read about on the Wikipedia for Nihilism. And that Clark only really got into it when he was trying to live with the guilt of killing Annie. In retrospect one other thing that's goofy as hell is that all the dialog shown for the big incident has them saying poo poo like "Annie's Awake!!! omg!" instead of "ah gently caress there's a large mob of women coming after us". Even the guy that gets plucked from the ice insists on talking in metaphors and the events as shown really don't help say why he didn't say anything useful beyond Annies name.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:08
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I think it’s just a case where the show ultimately rides the fence on the supernatural elements in a pretty convenient, cowardly way. The murder? There’s a logical explanation for it. All those other red herrings and things that didn’t really make sense or seem motivated?  As another poster pointed out last night, the scientist suspects ghost judgement for his crimes because he knows that’s the genre he’s living in.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:17
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That finale was not a good ending to a not very good season, though I did get a good laugh out of "Time is a flat circle" and that awful cover of Twist and Shout playing during what's supposed to be a sad scene with Danvers crying. Maybe the next season of True Detective will be worth a poo poo.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:18
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CatstropheWaitress posted:Maybe this is what you meant, but I don't think S1 excuses their awful choices and is better for it. It shows them both suffer and cause a lot of suffering because of their actions, but aside from the Rust's drug use it, they're protagonists in spite of and not because of those vices. I was drawing a distinction between their actions (and resulting consequences) as police and their actions (and resulting consequences) as men. The lovely things they do in service of police work — the violence, the complete disregard for law in the service of Getting The Next Lead, etc. — lead to good things for their careers as detectives. They end up in the papers, they get promotions, they have a near decade of working well together, they're widely recognized as a great duo who gets results, etc., etc. Meanwhile, the lovely things they do as men — Rust's nihilism and substance abuse, Marty's infidelity — lead to horrible things for their personal lives. Rust is human wreckage by 2012, and only came back to work the case because he intended to kill himself after putting things right. Marty lost his wife and children and lives a sad, quiet life alone. In my view, the show's moral compass is fine with them being lovely in service of the case, but comes down on them hard for being lovely people.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:21
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^Ah. Fully agree with all that  my bony fealty posted:If the lord is merciful there will be no more True Detective shows after this. Oh also nah man. This season missed, but at least it did it in an interesting setting and with some good bits sprinkled throughout. Have said it before, but will take attempts like this over a lot of other tv. Keep throwing money at people to try to make the formula work again, show's core theme is generic enough to support it. If the pattern holds, S5 should actually be ok.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:23
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It’s funny that there were 12 mystery deaths and not one reporter felt it was worth coming up from Anchorage. We could’ve cut half an hour of people staring wistfully and dealt with the Tuttle foundation realizing: *that their conspiracy was endangered and *their investment of hundreds of millions of dollars was wasted. I feel like that would be a bigger effort than “send up a dirty cop and tell the mine to deal with it, same with the big protests. It’s almost Christmas, who cares.” Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 16:25
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Of all the bullshit in this season, what gets me is that the whole back half of it is preoccupied with finding an ice cave in a video. Two big problems with this: 1. The location. Danvers and Navarro obtain a formal survey map of what is improbably the only local ice cave system, they drive out to it twice, and they never realise it's directly underneath the first crime scene. Nor does the geologist who gets the map for them even note in passing that the cave is right underneath it. No, they needed a German heroin addict to guide them, and the mine director needed to hire Hank to kill the German, because there was no other way they could figure out how to enter the ice caves. 2. The video itself. Annie K. is looking for evidence to expose ties between Tsala and the mine, right? She's looking for evidence of groundwater pollution. Why is she mortally terrified of a few dumpy middle-aged scientists before they show any sign of violence? Why is she making this Blair Witch style selfie video before she's surprised, instead of calmly sweeping her camera over the room? Even if you accept the supernatural element to explain the most egregious red herrings (the tongue, the state of the bodies), everything else is still nonsense
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Feb 19, 2024 16:36
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My favourite part was how this mysterious spiral that an insane childmurderer/rapist in Louisiana was painting on his victims, was just based on the skeleton of a dinosaur. I can't believe that of all the stupid poo poo this season, "it's older than the ice" was actually true lmao
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Feb 19, 2024 16:42
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I would have liked to have seen some more time dedicated to the scientists snapping when they find her. With how it was handled in the episode it felt like they really skipped a couple of steps in making me believe the scientists would immediately jump to murder. I get that she broke a lot of poo poo that took forever to collect, and the work was very important with maybe world-changing possibilities, but it felt like we missed some scenes of recorded diary logs or something from the scientists that show some mounting pressure on them that would make them snap like that.Flimf posted:My favourite part was how this mysterious spiral that an insane childmurderer/rapist in Louisiana was painting on his victims, was just based on the skeleton of a dinosaur. lol, I hadn't yet considered what that reveal meant for the first season. In another world they ran into a corpse with the shape of a mammoth painted on. Or maybe a T-Rex chicken nugget-esque shape.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:46
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Cassian of Imola posted:Of all the bullshit in this season, what gets me is that the whole back half of it is preoccupied with finding an ice cave in a video. Two big problems with this: The cave entrance they break into had to have been like...a tenth of a mile? from the station and yet somehow they never noticed that where Otis pointed on the map was directly next to Tsalal station.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:47
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Distances fluncutate as the needs of any story require. See also: Game of Thrones, where the king starts off taking three months to go from King's Landing to Winterfell but later on whole armies make these marches in a week or less. Tsalal could be 40 km from the cave on a map but only take 1,000 steps to go from one to the other underground.
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Feb 19, 2024 17:02
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It seems like there's a faint suggestion that the frozen leviathan/cure to all disease that the scientists discover holds some vague darkness that takes ahold of them and of the community as a whole (leading to the scientists' behavior, the widespread psychosis in the town, the stillbirths, etc.). That's a pretty boilerplate supernatural thriller premise, but that's fine if it's executed correctly. I think here, someone got cold feet (heh) about spelling that out or even hinting at it very strongly.
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Feb 19, 2024 17:04
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Call this nitpicking if you like, but if I was the sinister senior employee of a mining corporation, and we'd colluded with local police in order to cover up the murder of an indigenous woman by a group of scientists in order to protect our secret lab where the scientists conducted unethical skulduggery and then all the scientists showed up dead bar one, along with evidence that their deaths were revenge by someone who knew about the indigenous woman's murder and then it transpired that the missing scientist had constructed an eerie obsessive shrine to the dead woman while openly losing his mind after she died and if I could reasonably surmise that the missing scientist was probably hiding out in the secret lab accessible by a convenient entrance in the building owned by my company and if then it became clear that the ongoing manhunt for the missing scientist risked exposing the secret lab so if in other words I had a pretty drat good guess about the exact whereabouts of the unstable man who could, if successfully questioned by the cops, expose the death of Annie K and all of our polluting nefariousness, who was also a perfect patsy due to being himself wanted for murder and if I then chose to call upon my crooked police contact and bribe him to hunt down a man, drag him out into the snow, and execute him to tie up all our loose ends and ensure nobody could talk I probably wouldn't tell him to try and kill a random cave guide, is all I'm saying.
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Feb 19, 2024 17:06
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I liked the part earlier in the season where people kept asking each other apropos of nothing whether they believe in God.
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Feb 19, 2024 17:19
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Quantum of Phallus posted:how much are HBO paying these loving morons Reviewers climb over each other to try to put as much purple prose into their reviews as possible. Especially if they work for AV Club or Rolling Stone.
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Feb 19, 2024 17:36
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Like most everything else on the internet pop culture reviews have been enshittified where getting clicks is what counts
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Feb 19, 2024 17:38
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General Dog posted:I liked the part earlier in the season where people kept asking each other apropos of nothing whether they believe in God. The two leads hanging out in the car was some of the best parts of the season, because it involved humans talking to each other as humans. I don’t know if it was the point of this show, but almost every problem in Ennis replicated by the cop’s final decisions. Economic despair (no mine and a research station nobody can use again because it’s a permanent murder scene), secrecy, untreated mental illness. Like Hawkins before, the best solution to the lovely town is for everyone to leave.
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Feb 19, 2024 17:44
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Goons: Idk why you guys keep expecting Cthulhu True Detective Character Looking Directly at the Camera: There is an ancient god that's older than the ice that's awake in the ice and it's going to eat these dudes and it's going to be so sick
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Feb 19, 2024 17:45
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Love hanging out in the car with a pal and asking “hey do you have any monologues prepared about the existence of a higher power?” Right up there with "am I a good man?"
General Dog fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 17:46
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So no explanation for the creepy voodoo camper then? Also, I missed the spiral is dinosaur bones thing? I thought the explanation was it marked where the thin ice was (note that there were so many instances of thin ice with no spirals)?
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Feb 19, 2024 17:46
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Havent watched the newest season but it sounds like the thread generally recommends against it! Does this show actually introduce/solve mysteries via ghosts, without ever explaining why people are seeing ghosts?
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Feb 19, 2024 17:48
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General Dog posted:It was better than House of Usher at least House of Usher owns
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Feb 19, 2024 18:03
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Toaster Beef posted:I was drawing a distinction between their actions (and resulting consequences) as police and their actions (and resulting consequences) as men. The lovely things they do in service of police work — the violence, the complete disregard for law in the service of Getting The Next Lead, etc. — lead to good things for their careers as detectives. They end up in the papers, they get promotions, they have a near decade of working well together, they're widely recognized as a great duo who gets results, etc., etc. Meanwhile, the lovely things they do as men — Rust's nihilism and substance abuse, Marty's infidelity — lead to horrible things for their personal lives. Rust is human wreckage by 2012, and only came back to work the case because he intended to kill himself after putting things right. Marty lost his wife and children and lives a sad, quiet life alone. In my view, the show's moral compass is fine with them being lovely in service of the case, but comes down on them hard for being lovely people. I would really disagree that the intended morality is that it's fine that they're violent, rule-breaking cops - it's more that that's inherent to being a cop, and the kinds of people that excel at that also treat the rest of the people in their lives like poo poo. They don't really have separate lives like they pretend they do, which is also why Marty's home life gets visually and thematically intertwined with his case. I don't believe that there is a strong anti-cop message in a modern way of doing that, but there are definitely heavy themes that police work is brutal, violent and doesn't actually solve crimes. Even their vigilante justice doesn't stop much, the journey for them is spiritual. The first season is just so well written, acted and visually composed that there's a lot to mine and think about and revisit - diminishing returns for the rest of the show. That's on top of it working just as a solid procedural show. I don't think any of the following seasons (even though there are aspects of 2 that I love) managed to just make a compelling straightforward show.
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Feb 19, 2024 18:06
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TheBizzness posted:So no explanation for the creepy voodoo camper then?
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Feb 19, 2024 18:10
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Season 1 had its own problems in the back half — the big break in the case, you'll recall, is 'painters often have ears the same colour as the house they painted'. But nothing on this level
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Feb 19, 2024 18:18
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Cassian of Imola posted:Season 1 had its own problems in the back half — the big break in the case, you'll recall, is 'painters often have ears the same colour as the house they painted'. But nothing on this level That's simplifying what happens, but even though it's a little silly it still involved detective work and was presented in an exciting way. I have watched a lot of detective and police shows and I don't think there has been anything that compares to that first season of True Detective. It's very lean and fast moving through the whole thing - it deals in tropes and archetypes but usually uses them in novel ways. It's an anomaly and there isn't good evidence to think it can be repeated or iterated upon.
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Feb 19, 2024 18:23
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DarkLich posted:Does this show actually introduce/solve mysteries via ghosts, without ever explaining why people are seeing ghosts?
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Feb 19, 2024 18:32
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I can only assume the Inupiak village men were too busy with Boy’s Trivia Night to join the vigilante squad
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Feb 19, 2024 18:36
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nwin posted:Ok, now that the finale has aired, is it better than any of the seasons? It was pretty alright! It's definitely not as good as season 1, a lot better than season 2, and maybe just about edges out season 3 based on the cool setting I just finished the finale and liked it and the overall season quite a bit- surprised to see thread is so negative on it, but I guess no-one should be surprised that TVIV is terrible at watching television
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Feb 19, 2024 18:40
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the show is good and everyone should watch it
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Feb 19, 2024 18:42
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Bohemian Nights posted:I just finished the finale and liked it and the overall season quite a bit- surprised to see thread is so negative on it, but I guess no-one should be surprised that TVIV is terrible at watching television It’s lucky that everyone who disagrees with me about television is stupid!
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Feb 19, 2024 18:42
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Golden Bee posted:The two leads hanging out in the car was some of the best parts of the season, because it involved humans talking to each other as humans. Yeah except that science station has the cure for all human diseases don't forget. That's a totally plausible thing to dig out of the ice, right?
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Feb 19, 2024 18:43
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Golden Bee posted:He was a paranoid freak with a secret GF? I'd have to go back and watch the scene again but I dont think that explains all the weird poo poo that was in the camper.
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Feb 19, 2024 18:45
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TheBizzness posted:I'd have to go back and watch the scene again but I dont think that explains all the weird poo poo that was in the camper. Well, thats where they met up to bone. Don't kink shame them.
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Feb 19, 2024 18:52
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Flimf posted:Well, thats where they met up to bone. Don't kink shame them. Fair!
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Feb 19, 2024 18:54
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Hate it when me and my co-workers take the law into our own hands to avenge a forgotten victim failed by an investigation that went nowhere and then some loving centrist ghost instantly shows up and starts handing clues to the cops about the murders we committed. Where were you earlier, you narc?
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Feb 19, 2024 18:58
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Next season Tuttle Corp will have used the microbes to create the T virus.
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Feb 19, 2024 18:59
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Bohemian Nights posted:It was pretty alright! It's definitely not as good as season 1, a lot better than season 2, and maybe just about edges out season 3 based on the cool setting Honestly, I’d love for you to expound on what you liked about it
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Feb 19, 2024 19:00
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This show kind of has the Raiders of the Lost Ark “problem” where the end result is basically the same if our heroes just stay home the whole time. Expect in Raiders of the Lost Ark it feels like the joke is on Indy whereas here it feels like the joke is on the audience. Yes, I suppose without Navarro and Danvers the video cofession doesn’t come out and the mine stays open, but that’s presented so late and so briefly as to be an afterthought.
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Feb 19, 2024 19:05
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Smith Comma John posted:I can only assume the Inupiak village men were too busy with Boy’s Trivia Night to join the vigilante squad Nah, they just weren't that inuit.
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Feb 19, 2024 19:06
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