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sat on my keys! posted:IIRC Annatar was calling himself “Aulendil” also (Aule fan) which is hilarious. He was presenting himself as an emissary from the Valar to help out the remaining elves in ME which was maybe plausible but some of the other elves were like, we’ve never heard of this guy. Motivated reasoning is a hell of a drug. No one who is a Maiar of Aulë could be an evil man.
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Feb 18, 2024 21:30
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Ravenfood posted:Has there been a time when making powerful jewelry actually worked out for anyone? The Phial of Galadriel.
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Feb 18, 2024 22:06
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zoux posted:Who the gently caress did Celebrimbor think Annatar was? Some unknown rando who happened to possess ringlore that Celebrimbor, the greatest smith of his age, wasn’t aware of? The other elf lords knew it was fishy and sent him on his way. This may be why Tolkien decided to change Celebrimbor's origins. In some of his later texts he made Celebrimbor a Teleri of the Havens or even a Sindar, which would have explained why he wasn't as familiar with the Maia of Aman. Of course the Lord of the Rings had already established Celebrimbor as a descendent of Feanor, so this was a change that was unlikely to stick without another edition of LOTR.
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Feb 18, 2024 22:12
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Arc Hammer posted:The Phial of Galadriel. That's just a bottle though.
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Feb 18, 2024 22:16
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Ravenfood posted:Has there been a time when making powerful jewelry actually worked out for anyone? Gandalf mentions the existence of "lesser rings" that the elves of Eregion made before Sauron showed up, which don't have the evil stretching-out-of-life properties of the "great rings." So, presumably, those magic rings didn't cause any tragedies.
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Feb 18, 2024 22:18
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This is literally the central question of the RoP show  Annatar is just some guy who likes metal, listen to his cool theories about alloysAnyway I guess time for my annual tedious and unwelcome PSA: -ar is a PLURAL suffix Valar, Maiar, Ainur, Sindar = plural Vala, Maia, Ainu, Sinda = singular
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Feb 18, 2024 22:31
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Ravenfood posted:That's just a bottle though. A very pretty bottle 
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Feb 18, 2024 22:31
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Ravenfood posted:That's just a bottle though. If you put it on a necklace chain it becomes jewelry
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Feb 18, 2024 23:07
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Does a sword with a pretty string of beads on the pommel become a bracelet? Answer soon plz, my flight leaves in fifteen minutes
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Feb 18, 2024 23:11
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Ravenfood posted:Has there been a time when making powerful jewelry actually worked out for anyone?
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Feb 18, 2024 23:20
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Data Graham posted:This is literally the central question of the RoP show The season 2 leaks say that Halbrand isn't Annatar, who will be in Season 2, which makes me wonder if the 3 rings forged WEREN'T "The Three". That would actually reconcile the show with the books.
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Feb 19, 2024 07:13
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Diamonds On MY Fish posted:The season 2 leaks say that Halbrand isn't Annatar, who will be in Season 2, which makes me wonder if the 3 rings forged WEREN'T "The Three". That would actually reconcile the show with the books. This absolutely sounds like the showrunners trying to retcon the show back into something people watch.
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Feb 19, 2024 07:31
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Absolutely. God I hope they do.
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Feb 19, 2024 08:03
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This show was set up with an immense budget and a mandate to produce something extravagant, and that resulted in great casting, costuming, set design, and other production-related things. That's a rare opportunity. It'd be a shame to give up on the whole thing just because the screenwriting was stupid. If a retcon is what it takes to get them into a position to salvage things, well, it'd hardly be the first time a good TV show had a rotten first season. Really, despite everything, I want them to succeed.
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Feb 19, 2024 08:19
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-Even if it is breached, it would take a budget beyond reckoning- millions!- to make a decent show! -Thousands of millions. -But my lord, there is no such budget! [horns blare. Orcs can be heard chanting be-zoz, be-zos]
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Feb 19, 2024 08:42
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Bongo Bill posted:This show was set up with an immense budget and a mandate to produce something extravagant, and that resulted in great casting, costuming, set design, and other production-related things. That's a rare opportunity. It'd be a shame to give up on the whole thing just because the screenwriting was stupid. If a retcon is what it takes to get them into a position to salvage things, well, it'd hardly be the first time a good TV show had a rotten first season. Instead they decided to move production overseas, leaving all those great costumes and sets behind in a warehouse and the people who made them without a job.
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Feb 19, 2024 09:33
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If it makes the story good then who that’s ok
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Feb 19, 2024 09:42
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Data Graham posted:Anyway I guess time for my annual tedious and unwelcome PSA: I appreciate it. It doesn't stick in my head well enough. I can register "the Valar" as correct and referring to a group, but it doesn't feel plural, so "a Vala" never comes to mind and certainly doesn't feel like a correct reference to a singular entity.
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Feb 19, 2024 14:15
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Data Graham posted:This is literally the central question of the RoP show Why isn’t his name annata then smart guy
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Feb 19, 2024 16:51
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Diamonds On MY Fish posted:The season 2 leaks say that Halbrand isn't Annatar, who will be in Season 2, which makes me wonder if the 3 rings forged WEREN'T "The Three". That would actually reconcile the show with the books. I thought Season 1 was a hot mess on the whole but.... it's worse to make an abrupt U-turn in the middle of a story you're telling because you're afraid of how people are responding to it. Just write it better. The bones of the story are good (because its Tolkien and the 2nd Age stuff is actually, very cool!) just make it less stupid. sweet geek swag posted:This may be why Tolkien decided to change Celebrimbor's origins. In some of his later texts he made Celebrimbor a Teleri of the Havens or even a Sindar, which would have explained why he wasn't as familiar with the Maia of Aman. Of course the Lord of the Rings had already established Celebrimbor as a descendent of Feanor, so this was a change that was unlikely to stick without another edition of LOTR. I feel like it's important to keep Celebrimbor a descendant of Feanor because, even thousands of years later, people are still getting hosed up by the descendants of this guy. It's fitting. Mike N Eich fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 17:30
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DeimosRising posted:Why isn’t his name annata then smart guy Because he doesn't just bring one gift, duh!
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Feb 19, 2024 17:33
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Because he doesn't just bring one gift, duh! This. Sindarin for "Gift" is "Anna". *EDIT* so I looked up what "Tar" means in Sindarin and it's King or Queen (which, duh, Tar-Palantir, Tar-Miriel, etc so that's where the "are" suffix comes from, even though it's singular! Diamonds On MY Fish fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 06:51
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Diamonds On MY Fish posted:The season 2 leaks say that Halbrand isn't Annatar, who will be in Season 2, which makes me wonder if the 3 rings forged WEREN'T "The Three". That would actually reconcile the show with the books. None of the story beats in season 1 were bad per se. Abruptly reversing course is not going to improve anything. the problem was they had no loving clue what story they actually wanted to tell and hosed around for like 2 episodes of an 8 episode show with hobbits hanging around with an amnesiac. As a result the forging of the rings was loving 15 minutes in the last episode, sandwiched in with Sauron's revelation. The Numenor stuff was similarly full of wasted time and then rushed conclusions. None of the story beats are so bad they need to be abandoned, just do better. Prestige television is the worst poo poo ever. There is 0 reason to try and cram all of this into 8 episodes. give them a 20 episode season and id bet half of the problems resolve themselves as they would have had space to tell each of their stories, even the dumb ones, and the good ones would have shined through anyway.
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Feb 20, 2024 15:05
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I wonder if their license agreement was “use it or lose it” There is no reason numenor should have been added in.
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Feb 20, 2024 15:27
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How would you tell the Akallabeth without Numenor?
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Feb 20, 2024 15:28
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A different season or show as the OP was saying I watched 5 mins of one episode where Galadriel was climbing an iceberg and fell asleep. So I didn’t see the show to be fair
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Feb 20, 2024 15:29
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ah good talk
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Feb 20, 2024 15:29
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Diamonds On MY Fish posted:This. Sindarin for "Gift" is "Anna". Yeah, Quenya (a)tar (or Adûnaic ar) for "king" or "high" is a root word unrelated to the "-ar" plural suffix. Etymology is confusing when you get multiple words or fragments from different sources converging to a similar spelling, like a homonym. It's like in English thinking (perfectly reasonably) that "kindness" has something to do with "mankind".
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Feb 20, 2024 15:35
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The LOTR TV show has the same problem as the Doctor Sleep movie where it wants to be it's own thing but also wants to be in conversation with the visual language of the film trilogy and adapt a fairly limited amount of text into a multi-season broadcast. It turns into a jumbled mess because it fails at all of these things.
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Feb 20, 2024 15:59
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Doctor Sleep was miles better than ROP
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Feb 20, 2024 16:00
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90 percent of my problems with the show were having Galadriel as the MC, just make up some elf. Same poo poo as having Yoda flip around with a lightsaber: that's not what the character is.
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Feb 20, 2024 16:03
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Doctor Sleep was miles better than ROP That's not a high bar, mind you.
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Feb 20, 2024 16:03
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Yoda was that character though. Galadriel can be different than her version in LOtR if it’s a believable character arc like Yoda
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Feb 20, 2024 16:08
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"Around the survivors, a perimeter create", Yoda was not that character. Similarly, the version of Galadriel that everyone is most familiar with is an ethereal, intangible and mysterious demigoddess, not some angsty teenager scaling vertical ice cliffs bent on revenge.
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Feb 20, 2024 16:12
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I started reading the facsimile edition of The Hobbit last night, it's really cool!
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Feb 20, 2024 16:12
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Quantum of Phallus posted:I started reading the facsimile edition of The Hobbit last night, it's really cool! Is this printed on thermal paper or something?
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Feb 20, 2024 16:14
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zoux posted:"Around the survivors, a perimeter create", Yoda was not that character. Similarly, the version of Galadriel that everyone is most familiar with is an ethereal, intangible and mysterious demigoddess, not some angsty teenager scaling vertical ice cliffs bent on revenge. FWIW Tolkien went through the same process as Lucas when trying to imagine what backstory leads people to become cryptic masters of magic lurking in the forbidden woods: they used to be incredibly gung-ho to an extent that seems really weird if you only knew the ancient retired version of the person, but probably less so when you consider how many wars they lived through. Like I’m sure the tv show hosed it up because it was written by/for/about idiots. But Tolkien is the one who decided that Galadriel’s mother named her the elvish equivalent of “Butch”.
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Feb 20, 2024 16:29
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Right Yoda changed due to the Jedi coup getting crushed and him learning that violence was not an answer (or maybe. Violence from him at least is not the answer. He has no issue later sending look out on an assassination mission )
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Feb 20, 2024 16:46
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zoux posted:the version of Galadriel that everyone is most familiar with why does this matter to you
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Feb 20, 2024 17:27
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euphronius posted:Right Yoda changed due to the Jedi coup getting crushed and him learning that violence was not an answer (or maybe. Violence from him at least is not the answer. He has no issue later sending look out on an assassination mission ) it's not an assassination mission. Yoda says "you must confront Vader" not "you must kill Vader," and then Vader ends up getting killed by the Emperor due to him defending Luke from the Emperor's lightning, not by Luke, who pointedly refuses to kill him. The whole point of Luke's character arc in ESB/RotJ is that he learns, mainly from Yoda, to put aside violence and vengeance in favor of forgiveness and peace; that's why he throws away his lightsaber. I don't think Yoda in the prequels is a good analogy to Galadriel in RoP. Yoda is a wise old sage who, offscreen, turns into a different wise old sage between the prequels and the original trilogy, presumably due to solitary reflection on the causes of the fall of the jedi order or something during his 20 years on Dagobah. This is what makes his characterization in the prequels seem so weird - we don't expect someone who's already old to change that much; we don't expect someone who is already regarded as a wise sage to be lacking his main wisdom. Anyways I've spent far too much of my life thinking about yoda
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Feb 20, 2024 17:40
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