[i love cars] I don't need a Tesla to take big loads

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [i love cars] I don't need a Tesla to take big loads

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

You guys are getting hung up on "EV good" but all I'm saying is "ICE bad"

The UAW should not be advocating for them, even if it's unrealistic to expect them to want to give up their jobs as the industry shrinks

# ? Feb 20, 2024 17:49

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# ? May 27, 2024 14:54

BonHair: Apr 28, 2007

my bony fealty posted:

Ideally there's three separate lanes for e-bikes, normal bikes, and pedestrians. This can be done by removing the car lanes entirely.

Separating ebikes from regular bikes seems kinda arbitrary though, I pass plenty of ebikes on my regular rear end bike. Just have a bike lane with room for three bikes side by side so whoever needs to pass can do so. Still plenty of room if you eliminate car lanes, even with arterial buses

# ? Feb 20, 2024 18:03

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

The kid across the street from me who bought a F-250 quad cab is picking up evening shifts on a tow truck, I figure that's how.

gotta vroom vroom so you can afford to vroom vroom

# ? Feb 20, 2024 18:10

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/goodkidbikecity/status/1759876685506249057

translation: tricycles, tok-toks [motorcycles-for-hire], pedicabs, and electric bikes are now banned along Taft Ave.

# ? Feb 20, 2024 18:10

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

lol
Look up! Not a bird, not a plane � it�s a HAWK signal � a hero in crosswalk safety!

wsdotblog.blogspot.com posted:

By Sarah Hannon-Nein

In a nod to the winged heroes of our imagination, akin to Batman's iconic bat signal piercing the night sky, a unique hero has surfaced.

Armed with flashing lights and the authority to direct traffic, Washington State Department of Transportation with their contractor, Thompson Bros. Excavating, proudly unveils the successful installation of a HAWK Signal on State Route 500 (also known as Northeast Fourth Plain Boulevard), at Northeast 166th Avenue.

#### What is a HAWK signal?

A HAWK (High intensity Activated crossWalK) signal is an effective visual system designed to grab drivers� attention and make it safer for people to cross the road on foot or on wheels. It also makes traffic flow smoother for drivers. Unlike traditional traffic signals, a HAWK signal is activated and operates only when a pedestrian pushes the crossing button. When there are no pedestrians, vehicles move without interruption.

When a person presses the button on the HAWK signal, it will first turn yellow, then red, and finally to flashing red. Drivers should treat these lights just like any other traffic signal. Yellow means prepare to stop, red means stop. When the signal is flashing red, drivers can drive through the crossing area only if it is completely safe to do so without posing any risk to pedestrians.

Pedestrians can activate the HAWK signal by pushing the button at either end of the crossing. The lights on the HAWK signal will indicate when it is safe to cross. Even with the HAWK signal, it is still important for pedestrians to stay focused and be cautious of potential conflicts with vehicles. Drivers making right or left turns across the crosswalk might not always notice pedestrians.

As part of the project, our crews have also constructed a new shared-use path and a marked crossing. This path and crossing make it safer for pedestrians traveling to Pioneer Elementary School and Frontier Middle School from the neighborhoods south of SR 500. Additionally, crews have completed permanent roadway striping to give drivers visible and reflective lane guidance. The new striping means the crossing will be safer for drivers and pedestrians, especially during nighttime driving.

Thanks to these improvements, funded by the Safe Routes to Schools Program, students walking, biking or using mobility devices to travel to school in the Orchards neighborhood now have a safer path beneath their feet and wheels.

Keep your eyes on the horizon, as the next HAWK signal is scheduled to appear along SR 503/Northeast 117th Avenue, near Prairie High School, later this year.

As Like the iconic �bat signal,� the HAWK signal alerts drivers to pedestrians entering the road. When this signal is activated, slow down and be ready to stop at the crosswalk. Just as Batman protects Gotham, drivers can be heroes too by doing their part to ensure everyone makes it home safely at the end of the day.

drivers see these as completely optional / speed up signals

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:11

mystes: May 31, 2006

HAWK signals would be completely unnecessary if we could make normal traffic lights that can detect pedestrians still crossing and extend the time like they have in other countries.

Literally the only theoretical advantage of HAWK signals if drivers actually obey them is that if the pedestrians have already crossed, the drivers can proceed earlier.

That said, if the options are a HAWK signal or an RRFB I will gladly take the HAWK signal because with a HAWK signal there is at least a 50% chance that drivers will stop, whereas I would put RRFBs at around 5%.

Edit: Also lol that even on school routes you can only do hawk signals

mystes has issued a correction as of 19:16 on Feb 20, 2024

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:13

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

mawarannahr posted:

lol
Look up! Not a bird, not a plane � it�s a HAWK signal � a hero in crosswalk safety!

drivers see these as completely optional / speed up signals

not as bad as these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT6E3scnXWA

LADOT been putting them in everywhere. better than nothin i guess. i get to mean mug cars that intrude on the one near me. cross it daily. to be honest most people stop. but its so obvious that when they dont, you can really make them feel bad about their evil deeds.

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:34

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Smythe posted:

not as bad as these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT6E3scnXWA

LADOT been putting them in everywhere. better than nothin i guess. i get to mean mug cars that intrude on the one near me. cross it daily. to be honest most people stop. but its so obvious that when they dont, you can really make them feel bad about their evil deeds.

I got one in front of my new apartment. I can see it from the window. if I could be bothered to would set up some kind of webcam system to detect what % actually stop.

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:36

Pepe Silvia Browne: Jan 1, 2007

whoa... if all pedestrians just wore clothing with "STOP" signs attached, no one would ever be hit by cars...

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:38

spacemang_spliff: Nov 29, 2014; wide pickle

mawarannahr posted:

lol
Look up! Not a bird, not a plane � it�s a HAWK signal � a hero in crosswalk safety!

drivers see these as completely optional / speed up signals

isn't this just a beg button?

there's one near the catholic school/daycare/church/catholic college and people get mad when it gets used.

it's a super wide 2 lane road (but it's as big as a 4 lane road) with a 30 mph speed limit and people haul rear end down it lol such a garbage road

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:48

spacemang_spliff: Nov 29, 2014; wide pickle

mawarannahr posted:

I got one in front of my new apartment. I can see it from the window. if I could be bothered to would set up some kind of webcam system to detect what % actually stop.

we got one of those near the beg button, at the end of big turn lol

I don't even bother using it because no one stops.

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:51

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

There is good implementation of that near me which combines a speed bump on the crossing to give an at-grade crossing for the pedestrians

3002 W School House Ln
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RiDxt6WvBHX2DmRQ9

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:52

Karach: May 23, 2003; no war but class war

Smythe posted:

not as bad as these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT6E3scnXWA

LADOT been putting them in everywhere. better than nothin i guess. i get to mean mug cars that intrude on the one near me. cross it daily. to be honest most people stop. but its so obvious that when they dont, you can really make them feel bad about their evil deeds.

"when motorists yield, typically we see a lot less pedestrian crashes."

:thunk:

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:52

spacemang_spliff: Nov 29, 2014; wide pickle

Nitrousoxide posted:

There is good implementation of that near me which combines a speed bump on the crossing to give an at-grade crossing for the pedestrians

3002 W School House Ln
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RiDxt6WvBHX2DmRQ9

speed bumps ftw

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:54

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

Nitrousoxide posted:

There is good implementation of that near me which combines a speed bump on the crossing to give an at-grade crossing for the pedestrians

3002 W School House Ln
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RiDxt6WvBHX2DmRQ9

this is EXACTLY what i'd like to see with these implementations!!! speed humps and road furniture downstream of midblock crossings. IDEAL. well, not ideal - but ya take what u can get

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:58

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

spacemang_spliff posted:

speed bumps ftw

I love it when the drivers get mad

(pretend I posted the funny speed bump video)

# ? Feb 20, 2024 19:59

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

every time these come thru my lovely local gov body ppl say to the dot guy "can we get some speed humps, protruding corner islands, and road furniture at residential intersections kuz there are kids on their tricycles in the street playing" and the DOT guy says Yes! then some time passes and they do, indeed, get put in - the road furniture that is. which is a PEDESTRIANS EXIST sign with a star of cones around it. the idea is to add weird poo poo that slows down cars. anyways they go in, and after like 6 months, its been crashed into oblivion. then they get removed kuz its basically twisted metal. then theyre gone. well folks, we tried

# ? Feb 20, 2024 20:04

ArmedZombie: Jun 6, 2004

cat botherer posted:

tired of driving BAD TRUCK
can't wait to get off work so I can drive GOOD TRUCK

# ? Feb 20, 2024 20:10

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

push button crosswalks should raise a spike strip when pushed, about 20 feet from the crosswalk in both directions

# ? Feb 20, 2024 20:12

mystes: May 31, 2006

spacemang_spliff posted:

isn't this just a beg button?

A "beg button" is just any button that triggers a walk signal. HAWK signals are different from normal traffic lights with walk signals in how the lights function for drivers because instead of showing drivers a solid red signal for a longer period and then going immediately to green, they have a shorter solid red phase followed by a blinking red phase, and then go back to green.

The reason engineers like them is (I guess?) because the cars are supposed to be able to proceed through the blinking red phase if no pedestrians are present so it slows traffic down less than it would if there was a solid longer phase at the end of which cars are waiting despite pedestrians having already crossed.

mystes has issued a correction as of 20:21 on Feb 20, 2024

# ? Feb 20, 2024 20:15

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

mawarannahr posted:

I love it when the drivers get mad

(pretend I posted the funny speed bump video)

gimme

# ? Feb 20, 2024 21:10

spacemang_spliff: Nov 29, 2014; wide pickle

mystes posted:

A "beg button" is just any button that triggers a walk signal. HAWK signals are different from normal traffic lights with walk signals in how the lights function for drivers because instead of showing drivers a solid red signal for a longer period and then going immediately to green, they have a shorter solid red phase followed by a blinking red phase, and then go back to green.

The reason engineers like them is (I guess?) because the cars are supposed to be able to proceed through the blinking red phase if no pedestrians are present so it slows traffic down less than it would if there was a solid longer phase at the end of which cars are waiting despite pedestrians having already crossed.

ah I thought beg buttons refer to this specifically. there's a couple of these near me. they're okay I guess better than nothing but they don't seem like a great solution

# ? Feb 20, 2024 21:15

Mr. Sharps: Jul 30, 2006; The only true law is that which leads to freedom. There is no other.

mystes posted:

A "beg button" is just any button that triggers a walk signal. HAWK signals are different from normal traffic lights with walk signals in how the lights function for drivers because instead of showing drivers a solid red signal for a longer period and then going immediately to green, they have a shorter solid red phase followed by a blinking red phase, and then go back to green.

The reason engineers like them is (I guess?) because the cars are supposed to be able to proceed through the blinking red phase if no pedestrians are present so it slows traffic down less than it would if there was a solid longer phase at the end of which cars are waiting despite pedestrians having already crossed.

interesting. how about a button that makes a CIWS pop out of the ground to annihilate any car that encroaches on the crossing zone with 30mm shells

# ? Feb 20, 2024 21:18

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

mystes posted:

A "beg button" is just any button that triggers a walk signal. HAWK signals are different from normal traffic lights with walk signals in how the lights function for drivers because instead of showing drivers a solid red signal for a longer period and then going immediately to green, they have a shorter solid red phase followed by a blinking red phase, and then go back to green.

The reason engineers like them is (I guess?) because the cars are supposed to be able to proceed through the blinking red phase if no pedestrians are present so it slows traffic down less than it would if there was a solid longer phase at the end of which cars are waiting despite pedestrians having already crossed.

The UK has had these for years. Green goes to amber then to red, then to flashing amber which is "cars can go if the pedestrians have finished crossing". We don't call them silly names like HAWKs though, we call them the entirely sensible Pelican crossing

# ? Feb 20, 2024 21:25

Second Hand Meat Mouth: Sep 12, 2001

Fitzy Fitz posted:

You guys are getting hung up on "EV good" but all I'm saying is "ICE bad"

The UAW should not be advocating for them, even if it's unrealistic to expect them to want to give up their jobs as the industry shrinks

ice is good because it's going to get us through our gas reserves quicker

# ? Feb 20, 2024 21:45

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

my bony fealty posted:

push button crosswalks should raise a spike strip when pushed, about 20 feet from the crosswalk in both directions

Drivers will still ignore them, and now they'll be careening at pedestrians AND out of control.

Retractable bollards sounds doable though.

# ? Feb 20, 2024 21:49

FirstnameLastname: Jul 10, 2022

Second Hand Meat Mouth posted:

ice is good because it's going to get us through our gas reserves quicker

# ? Feb 20, 2024 21:49

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

i keep meaning to post what my man Christopher Alexander had to say about crosswalks in A Pattern Language, a book that stoked my hatred of almost all built environments, but also honed it to to a surgical edge. all emphasis his, published 1977.

Road Crossing (54) posted:

Where paths cross roads, the cars have the power to frighten and subdue the people walking, even when the people walking have the legal right-of-way.

This will happen whenever the path and the road are at the same level. No amount of painted white lines, crosswalks, traffic lights, button operated signals, ever quite manage to change the fact that a car weighs a ton or more, and will run over any pedestrian, unless the driver brakes. Most often the driver does brake. But everyone knows of enough ocasions when brakes have failed, or drivers have gone to sleep, to be perpetually wary and afraid.

The people who cross a road will only feel comfortable and safe if the road crossing is a physical obstruction, which physically guarantees that the cars must slow down and give way to pedestrians. In many places it is recognized by law that pedestrians have the right-of-way over automobiles. Yet at the crucial points where paths cross roads, the physical arrangement gives priority to cars. The road is continuous, smooth, and fast, interrupting the pedestrian walkway at the junctions. This continuous road surface actually implies that the car has the right-of-way.

What should crossings be like to accommodate the needs of pedestrians?

The fact that pedestrians feel less vulnerable to cars when they are about 18 inches above them, is discussed in the next pattern RAISED WALK (55). The same principle applies, even more powerfully, where pedestrians have to cross a road. The pedestrians who cross must be extremely visible from the road. Cars should also be forced to slow down when they approach the crossing. If the pedestrian way crosses 6 to 12 inches above the roadway, and the roadway slopes up to it, this satisfies both requirements. A slope in 1 in 6, or less, is safe for cars and solid enough to slow them down. To make the crossing even easier to see from a distance and to give weight to the pedestrian's right to be there, the pedestrian path could be marked by a canopy at the edge of the road - CANVAS ROOFS (244)

We know that this pattern is rather extraordinary. For this reason, we consider it quite essential that readers do not try to use it on every road, for formalistic reasons, but only on those roads where it is badly needed. We therefore complete the problem statement by defining a simple experiment which you can do to decide whether or not a given crossing needs this treatment.

Go to the road in question several times, at different times of day. Each time you go, count the number of seconds you have to wait before you can cross the road. If the average of these waiting times is more than two seconds, then we recommend you use the pattern. (On the basis of Buchanan's statement that roads become threatening to pedestrians when the volume of traffic on them creates an average delay of two seconds or more, for people trying to cross on foot. See the extensive discussion, Colin Buchanan et al., Traffic in Towns, HMSO, London, 1963, pp. 203-13.) If you cannot do this experiment, or the road is not yet built, you may be able to guess, by using the chart below. It shows which combinations of volume and width will typically create more than a two-second average delay.

[chart omitted]

One final note. This pattern may be impossible to implement, in places where traffic engineers are still in control. Nevertheless the functional issue is vital, and must not be ignored. A big wide road, with several lanes of heavy traffic can form an almost impenetrable barrier. In this case, you can solve the problem, at least partially, by creating islands - certainly one in the middle, and perhaps extra islands, between adjacent lanes. This has a huge effect on a person's capacity to cross the road, for a very simple reason. If you are trying to cross a wide road, you have to wait for a gap to occur simultaneously in each of the lanes. It is the waiting for this coincidence of gaps that creates the problem. But if you can hop, from island to island, each time a gap occurs in any one lane, one lane at a time, you can get across in no time at all - because the gaps which occur in individual lanes are many many times more frequent, than the big gaps in all lanes at the same time. So, if you can't raise the crossing, at least use islands, like stepping stones.

Therefore:

At any point where a pedestrian path crosses a road that has enough traffic to create more than a two second delay to people crossing, make a "knuckle" at the crossing: narrow the road to the width of the through lanes only; continue the pedestrian path through the crossing about a foot above the roadway; put in islands between lanes; slope the road up toward the crossing (1 in 6 maximum); mark the path with a canopy or shelter to make it visible.

i think with cars getting bigger we can go ahead and raise the recommendation to 18 inches.

obviously he gives no consideration given to crosswalk signals: humans have the right to cross the road, with no more than two seconds of delay on average, without any lights or flags or any other drat thing. the question is only how to substantively ensure that right.

and if you think this sounds at all impractical to put at every intersection, well first of all roadway intersections are more dangerous for pedestrians and all crossings should be in the "middle of a block", but secondly, his other patterns make clear that the entire idea of a sidewalk is bullshit, that there should be a network of pedestrian paths which can reach all desirable destinations, and that it should contact the road network at as few points as possible, rather than following it. our cities literally marginalize Humans Out Of Cars.

# ? Feb 20, 2024 22:15

Weembles: Apr 19, 2004

Smythe posted:

every time these come thru my lovely local gov body ppl say to the dot guy "can we get some speed humps, protruding corner islands, and road furniture at residential intersections kuz there are kids on their tricycles in the street playing" and the DOT guy says Yes! then some time passes and they do, indeed, get put in - the road furniture that is. which is a PEDESTRIANS EXIST sign with a star of cones around it. the idea is to add weird poo poo that slows down cars. anyways they go in, and after like 6 months, its been crashed into oblivion. then they get removed kuz its basically twisted metal. then theyre gone. well folks, we tried

Your city probably had a half dozen public engagement meetings between being asked for safety features and finally putting up the signs. Each meeting was held at 2 PM on a Wednesday and attended solely by 80 year olds who tag teamed complaining about the cost and complaining about how curb bumpouts would ruin the character of the neighborhood.

Traffic engineers always try to cut the baby in half when they get the chance - so they put up the signs to make everyone "happy".

# ? Feb 20, 2024 22:51

BONGHITZ: Jan 1, 1970

sidewalks are bullshit

# ? Feb 20, 2024 22:53

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

Weembles posted:

Your city probably had a half dozen public engagement meetings between being asked for safety features and finally putting up the signs. Each meeting was held at 2 PM on a Wednesday and attended solely by 80 year olds who tag teamed complaining about the cost and complaining about how curb bumpouts would ruin the character of the neighborhood.

Traffic engineers always try to cut the baby in half when they get the chance - so they put up the signs to make everyone "happy".

The entire philly bus rework, a thing 2 years in the making with hundreds of public meetings to get resident feedback, got delayed for a year by a city counsel member because a single meeting didn't have enough chairs.

https://metrophiladelphia.com/delays-septa-bus-revolution-2025/

# ? Feb 20, 2024 23:00

Tendales: Mar 9, 2012

Replace all car infrastructure with a single road that runs from the dealership to the scrapyard.

# ? Feb 20, 2024 23:33

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

when they built a protected two-way bike lane near here they put in raised crosswalks across the bike lane for pedestrians for safety, but not across the actual road because it would inconvenience motorists lol

# ? Feb 20, 2024 23:41

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

Doc Hawkins posted:

quote:
At any point where a pedestrian path crosses a road that has enough traffic to create more than a two second delay to people crossing, make a "knuckle" at the crossing: narrow the road to the width of the through lanes only; continue the pedestrian path through the crossing about a foot above the roadway; put in islands between lanes; slope the road up toward the crossing (1 in 6 maximum); mark the path with a canopy or shelter to make it visible.

obviously he gives no consideration given to crosswalk signals: humans have the right to cross the road, with no more than two seconds of delay on average, without any lights or flags or any other drat thing. the question is only how to substantively ensure that right.

and if you think this sounds at all impractical to put at every intersection, well first of all roadway intersections are more dangerous for pedestrians and all crossings should be in the "middle of a block", but secondly, his other patterns make clear that the entire idea of a sidewalk is bullshit, that there should be a network of pedestrian paths which can reach all desirable destinations, and that it should contact the road network at as few points as possible, rather than following it. our cities literally marginalize Humans Out Of Cars.

this would be a great ground up re-design, but seems relatively expensive and space-intensive compared to giving the pedestrians a tool to separate themselves from the cars so the accident can't happen in the first place? even we you implemented everything you suggested (and we should), when pedestrian crossings still have to happen this is an extra layer of safety.

if a crosswalk button put something like this up, wouldn't that be the end of the conversation?

AreWeDrunkYet has issued a correction as of 01:22 on Feb 21, 2024

# ? Feb 21, 2024 01:19

500excf type r: Mar 7, 2013; I'm as annoying as the high-pitched whine of my motorcycle, desperately compensating for the lack of substance in my life.

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

this would be a great ground up re-design, but seems relatively expensive and space-intensive compared to giving the pedestrians a tool to separate themselves from the cars so the accident can't happen in the first place? even we you implemented everything you suggested (and we should), when pedestrian crossings still have to happen this is an extra layer of safety.

if a crosswalk button put something like this up, wouldn't that be the end of the conversation?

What if those were up all the time and the drivers had to press a button to lower them

# ? Feb 21, 2024 01:39

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

Drivers will still ignore them, and now they'll be careening at pedestrians AND out of control.

Retractable bollards sounds doable though.

The dream

# ? Feb 21, 2024 01:47

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Book guy: create islands of crosswalks so people can walk across at-grade

Urban planners:

# ? Feb 21, 2024 01:55

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

if a crosswalk button put something like this up, wouldn't that be the end of the conversation?

installing and maintaining those would be significantly more expensive than raised crosswalks but they might also cause a lot more damage to cars so its hard to say which is the better pie in the sky

# ? Feb 21, 2024 02:39

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

The car must be made to fear man if we are to free ourselves of its predations. To accept a small additional burden of cost is the smallest of possible prices to pay.

# ? Feb 21, 2024 03:00

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# ? May 27, 2024 14:54

FirstnameLastname: Jul 10, 2022

gradenko_2000 posted:

Book guy: create islands of crosswalks so people can walk across at-grade

Urban planners:

there's power lines they had to go over bc can't go under with enough clearance & looks like there's a substation or something there

# ? Feb 21, 2024 03:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [i love cars] I don't need a Tesla to take big loads

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